Interesting that your builder is charging extra for the gas line. Is he
including a circuit for an electric dryer in for free? I've been offered
one or the other at no charge with the 2 houses I've had built. The person
who suggested putting in both had a pretty good suggestion. Relatively
inexpensive, when you consider the price of your townhouse, the monthly
payment you make will change by only pennies, probably.

Keep in mind that if gas prices go up, electric rates may rise right along
with them. Many utilities burn natural gas to generate electricity. Some
may switch to another fuel if they can, but that fuel would likely rise as
well.

That said, when we switched from an electric dryer to natural gas a decade
ago, we noticed a several dollar per month drop in our electric bill. Maybe
$75 per year. We did not notice much of an increase at all in our gas bill.
So call it maybe $65 per year, so total payback in less than 3 years. Your
results will vary based on the utility rates in your area. In this area,
electricity is relatively inexpensive $0.07 per kwh. and gas is about 77
per therm.

I've had to replace one timer on my electric dryer in the 5 years I've owned
it (Kenmore)
In the 12 years I've owned 2 gas dryers, both Maytags, no repairs needed.
Hardly representative, I know, but that's my experience.

HTH
Dave

"BrianEWilliams" wrote in message
om...
We are buying a new construction townhouse. Installing a gas line to
the laundry area will be $100. A gas dryer cost $53 more than the
same model in electric. I have seen headlines saying gas prices are
going up. My question is this. Does anyone have a opinion on how
long it will take me to save back my extra $153 in upfront costs for
the gas dryer? Obviously this depends on the relative price of gas
vs. electricity in the future which no one can predict, but opinions
are welcome.

Also, are there any maintenance issues with gas vs. electric dryers?
This is the gas model we are thinking of getting:

The Advantage of a house with all electric appliances instead of gas
is that you don't have to run natural gas lines through the home.

For those of you who are safety oriented this can be important if you
are concerned about gas building up inside the house and a huge
explosion leveling the whole property afterwards. Some apartments and
condos don't have any gas at all in the for that very same reason
because the risk is greater.

If not in explosion then the residents can get gassed out and killed
while they are sleeping. There was a time long ago when lighting
fixtures were not electric but has gas coming through them and burned
gas to create light. I don't think it's even documented how many
people died from being gassed out from the gas itself or from the
buildup or carbon dioxide or from being burned.

For those of you who live in earthquake country your better off not
having gas if you want to be safe. This is why it is mandatory to
know exactly where is the main gas shut off valve for your house so
that you can immediately secure your residence by getting a wrench and
turning the valve closed so that your house won't explode.

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

Scour the Internet for the situation where a gas main exploded and
burned a whole community somewhere in California. There was a
situation once where a train derailed at a bedroom community. Two
houses were leveled I believe because they were by the tracks that was
a sharp turn. (stupid place to build a house in my opinion) Silently
underground there was a serious problem being a fracture in the main
gas line. Days later after the train derailment the line burst and
gas was shot up hundreds of feet into the air. Minutes later the
worst imaginable had happened once all of that fuel ignited. It was
such a great tragedy indeed and I still remember watching it on a
documentary as if it were only yesterday. Some of those poor people
who were still alive to talk about it, it was tragic.

My, what amazing fear-mongering about natural gas. Are you paid by
the electric company, or what? Here's a different point of view, from
http://utilities.dteenergy.com/infoZone/safety/gasSafety.html:

The Facts

Natural gas is one of the safest energy sources available to
homeowners and businesses alike. By itself, natural gas will not
ignite. For ignition to occur, a mixture of gas between four and 14
percent must combine with air. Also, gas must have an ignition
source with a temperature of 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit or more before
it will ignite.

Because gas is lighter than air, it will rise and disperse. That's
why you should open windows and doors if you smell gas.

I suspect that if you research the subject, you will find that more
people are injured or killed and more property is damaged as a result
of electrical fires than as a result of gas leaks.

You mentioned, without any details, a gas main explosion which "burned
a whole community somewhere in California." If that really happened,
then sure, it's a terrible tragedy. But the fact that it happened
doesn't really prove much about the safety of natural gas, any more
than Boston's great molasses flood of 1919 proves anything about the
safety of molasses.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:25:51 +0000 (UTC)
(Jonathan Kamens) wrote:

My, what amazing fear-mongering about natural gas. Are you paid by
the electric company, or what? Here's a different point of view, from
http://utilities.dteenergy.com/infoZone/safety/gasSafety.html:

The Facts

Natural gas is one of the safest energy sources available to
homeowners and businesses alike. By itself, natural gas will not
ignite. For ignition to occur, a mixture of gas between four and 14
percent must combine with air. Also, gas must have an ignition
source with a temperature of 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit or more before
it will ignite.

Like a pilot light?


Because gas is lighter than air, it will rise and disperse. That's
why you should open windows and doors if you smell gas.

If you are there and awake to smell it.


I suspect that if you research the subject, you will find that more
people are injured or killed and more property is damaged as a result
of electrical fires than as a result of gas leaks.

It is harder to outrun an explosion than a fire.


You mentioned, without any details, a gas main explosion which "burned
a whole community somewhere in California." If that really happened,
then sure, it's a terrible tragedy. But the fact that it happened
doesn't really prove much about the safety of natural gas, any more
than Boston's great molasses flood of 1919 proves anything about the
safety of molasses.

"Eastward Bound" wrote in message
om...
The Advantage of a house with all electric appliances instead of gas
is that you don't have to run natural gas lines through the home.

i looked specifically for a place with natural gas appliances, and heating.
in so cal, gas is cheaper than electricity.

For those of you who are safety oriented this can be important if you
are concerned about gas building up inside the house and a huge
explosion leveling the whole property afterwards. Some apartments and
condos don't have any gas at all in the for that very same reason
because the risk is greater.

my condo was built in 81 and has a gas stove, water heater, clothes dryer,
and central heat. i like it. it also meets all earthquake codes and has
apparently been thru a few of em since it was built with no damage at all.

If not in explosion then the residents can get gassed out and killed
while they are sleeping. There was a time long ago when lighting
fixtures were not electric but has gas coming through them and burned
gas to create light. I don't think it's even documented how many
people died from being gassed out from the gas itself or from the
buildup or carbon dioxide or from being burned.

might not be documented because it wasnt a big issue. how many gas station
fires are documented? i rarely hear of one, yet we all pump flammable liquid
fuel in our vehicles regularly.

For those of you who live in earthquake country your better off not
having gas if you want to be safe. This is why it is mandatory to
know exactly where is the main gas shut off valve for your house so
that you can immediately secure your residence by getting a wrench and
turning the valve closed so that your house won't explode.

true. its also nice to be able to shut off your power in case of short
circuits, and water in case of ruptured pipes.

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

Scour the Internet for the situation where a gas main exploded and
burned a whole community somewhere in California. There was a
situation once where a train derailed at a bedroom community. Two
houses were leveled I believe because they were by the tracks that was
a sharp turn. (stupid place to build a house in my opinion) Silently
underground there was a serious problem being a fracture in the main
gas line. Days later after the train derailment the line burst and
gas was shot up hundreds of feet into the air. Minutes later the
worst imaginable had happened once all of that fuel ignited. It was
such a great tragedy indeed and I still remember watching it on a
documentary as if it were only yesterday. Some of those poor people
who were still alive to talk about it, it was tragic.

**** happens. powerlines fall and kill people too. you work for So Cal
edison, doncha?

On 23 Jun 2003 23:02:52 -0700, (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

In Rochester, NY, with winter months routinely experiencing long
periods of freezing temperatures, gas lines do not freeze up.

In Rochester, NY, with winter months routinely experiencing long
periods of freezing temperatures, gas lines do not freeze up.

True, but houses do blow up there. 40 years ago a whole street blew up. I
don't remember what it was; a big surge in pressure or something like that.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:27:07 -0500
Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote:

Albert Wagner wrote:
It is harder to outrun an explosion than a fire.

Let me guess, you don't wear a seat belt in case your car catches fire

and the seat belt jams, right?


Huh?

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:43:36 -0500
Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote:
snip
You don't consider the "odds" when rating personal risk, only
spectacular occurances. Fires due to electric heaters are much more
common but less spectacular than gas explosions.


My point was that escaping a fire is easier than escaping an explosion.
Do you have any reliable statistics otherwise?

Albert Wagner writes:
Like a pilot light?

One of the neat things about pilot lights and gas leaks is
that since the pilot light is always burning, it is always
burning off any gas in its vicinity. So no, a pilot light is
unlikely to ignite an explosion as a result of a small gas
leak.

As for large gas leaks, they just don't happen that often, and
as I said before, I'm fairly certain that more people are
injured by electricity-related accidents than gas-related
accidents.

It is harder to outrun an explosion than a fire.

Irrelevant if the fires happen much more often than the
explosions.

I submit that the reason why every pretty much gas leak and
explosion is reported in the media is because they happen so
rarely.

Albert Wagner wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:27:07 -0500
Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote:


Albert Wagner wrote:

It is harder to outrun an explosion than a fire.

Let me guess, you don't wear a seat belt in case your car catches fire
and the seat belt jams, right?

Huh?

You don't consider the "odds" when rating personal risk, only
spectacular occurances. Fires due to electric heaters are much more
common but less spectacular than gas explosions.

"Wade Lippman" wrote in message et.net...
True, but houses do blow up there. 40 years ago a whole street blew up. I
don't remember what it was; a big surge in pressure or something like that.

You know what Mr. Lippman. What you have heard of is by no means an
isolated occurrence.

Houses explode from gas leaks all the time.

The biggest gas line danger in a home are the flexible gas lines that
connect the clothes dryer to the gas line along with the stove and the
water heater that use the flexible connection as well.

DANGEROUS! Here in Cali at least I know that it is illegal for anyone
to install a new gas appliance without putting in a new flexible metal
gas line.

Also what if nobody is home to smell the gas leak? (Vacation most
likely, most home owners are not smart enough to shut off the main gas
valve before they leave the house) Then it just keeps building up more
and more until all 4 houses the 3 surrounding houses included are
blown up.

There was once incident somewhere in North America where an Elderly
couple were getting more and more sick and they would sleep for the
whole day through and would have to use crutches. They felt tired all
the time and would vomit and they didn't know why.

Eventually the house cat (cats have an acute sense of smell) was seen
digging in the side of the house. The Lady went up to her cat and
noticed that there was a bad odor and a hissing sound from the gas
leaking out into the ground.

The gas company came with one of those testers that can sense how
strong the gas concentration is and it was off the scale.

That very same couple are a lot better now but are extremely lucky to
be alive. They were suffering from the poisoning and their house was
filling up with gas without them knowing. They are lucky that they
didn't quite literally blow up.

Sure there is a danger using electric appliances as well. The
difference is when you introduce gas appliances into the house, you
and your loved ones are now more at risk. Every house would have
electricity anyway. Having a gas appliance only adds more risks along
with a lot more things that can go wrong.

Remember, "What ever can go wrong will go wrong." Murphys law...

I'm not trying to by like Ralph Nader here going overboard. I'm just
saying that now that I am aware of all of the possible dangers
involved and the smart thing to do would be to make wise decisions to
keep you and your loved ones safe. Wouldn't you want to keep your
loved ones safe? There is nothing worse then a parent outliving a
child.

If for whatever impossible reason I were forced to use gas appliances
I would have them all inspected annually and would replace all the
flexible gas lines every year. Now if you had to inspect all of your
gas equipment and infrastructure annually how is that more frugal then
just using the more maintenance free electric appliances in the first
place?

A burn victim from flash burnings can be the most tragic accidents to
live through. I have seen burn victims and it is not pretty seeing
them like that uncomfortable no matter what they do. They don't even
look human anymore. Being a burn victim is no different then loosing
your hearing, loosing your vision or becoming a cripple. It's sad,
it's tragic and it's most unfortunate. The worst part about it is
that it would have been avoided if only one took the necessary
precautions.

Pat Meadows wrote in message ...
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:56:40 GMT,
wrote:

On 23 Jun 2003 23:02:52 -0700, (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

In Rochester, NY, with winter months routinely experiencing long
periods of freezing temperatures, gas lines do not freeze up.

Not here in northern PA either - our climate is similar to
yours.

For that matter, I used to live in very seriously cold
country - Edmonton, Alberta, CA. Gas lines there didn't
freeze up either. Night-time temps of -30 to -40 (F or C -
take your pick, it's not much different in that range) were
common in Edmonton when we lived there.


Oh for heaven's sake. Natural gas is a mixture of compounds, (methane,
ethane, propane, isobutane, etc.). Natural gas boils at minus 263 degrees F.
Methane, the principle component of natural gas (around 94% of the total by
volume), freezes at minus 296.5 degrees F. Precise temperatures will vary
with the proportions of the various components.

Can natural gas lines freeze? Not in any climate found on Earth.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:16:12 -0500, Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net
wrote:

Eastward Bound wrote:
Houses explode from gas leaks all the time.

No they don't. Where do you get crap like this?

Search www.cnn.com for 'gas leak house explode'
found over 5000 hits. Here are 3 examples...

http://wcpo.com/news/butlerwarren/oct232002.html

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/sto...225/LN_002.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ri2/fires/page3.html

n.o@spam writes:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:16:12 -0500, Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net
wrote:
Eastward Bound wrote:
Houses explode from gas leaks all the time.
No they don't. Where do you get crap like this?

Search www.cnn.com for 'gas leak house explode'
found over 5000 hits. Here are 3 examples...

First of all, when you type a query into the search box on the
www.cnn.com home page and click Search, you aren't actually searching
www.cnn.com, you're searching the entire Web. Notice that there are
two radio buttons next to the search box with the words "The Web" and
"CNN.com" next to them and the one that's checked by default is "The
Web".

Second, when you search for "gas leak house explode" you're telling
Google to find pages that match *any* of those words, not pages that
match *all* of them.

Third, since you're searching the entire Web, you're finding many
pages reporting on the same events, and many other pages talking about
the topic without actually mentioning specific events.

If you go to www.cnn.com, select the "CNN.com" search rather than
searching "The Web", and search for "gas leak house explode", you find
only three matches, which is not quite the same as "over 5000". If you
search for "gas leak house explosion" instead, you find 68 matches. In
contrast, if you search for "electrical fire house", you find 468
matches.

I'm not trying to claim that any of this is particularly scientific;
I'm merely trying to illustrate that your "over 5000" citation is
completely bogus.

n.o@spam wrote:
....
Search www.cnn.com for 'gas leak house explode'
found over 5000 hits.
.....

Try a search for 'electric dryer fire' and you'll get 80,000 hits.
Try a search for 'flying saucers abduct cheerleader' and you'll still
get at least 2 hits.

Can houses with natural gas appliances explode? Yes.
Does it happen very often? No.
Can houses with electrical appliances burn down and kill everyone? Yes.
Does it happen very often? More often than gas leak explosions.

If one were really concerned with the safety aspect of natural gas then
it would be appropriate to get the correct explosive gas and carbon
monoxide alarms installed. These are common in RV's.

Anthony

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:11:52 -0400, n.o@spam wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:16:12 -0500, Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net
wrote:

Eastward Bound wrote:
Houses explode from gas leaks all the time.

No they don't. Where do you get crap like this?

Search www.cnn.com for 'gas leak house explode'
found over 5000 hits. Here are 3 examples...


So did searching for 'gas leak house not explode'... perhaps you need
to refine your searching technique.

Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote in message ...
Wade Lippman wrote:
In Rochester, NY, with winter months routinely experiencing long
periods of freezing temperatures, gas lines do not freeze up.

True, but houses do blow up there. 40 years ago a whole street blew up. I
don't remember what it was; a big surge in pressure or something like that.

Yeah, so? I bet you think that travel by car is safer than travel by
airplane because when cars crash only a few people (usually) are killed
yet when planes crash sometimes hundreds are killed.


Bill, back in the mid 90s England was building a bunch of flats
(apartments/condos) that were about 30 floors high 50 max. They were
based off of a type of construction technology that originated from a
northern part of Europe that DID NOT use natural gas. But the most
important thing is that they were so cheap to build and they went up
rapidly with the cranes because they were so simple in construction.

Big mistake. Even though it was a great idea to solve much of
England's housing shortage problems, all of these high rises were
flawed.

They were built like a house of cards because every section of wall
and floor all comes together like a puzzle, and gravity plays a big
role in keeping it all together. (Some of these buildings were spared
when they updated them with reinforces to hold the sections of walls
and floors together)

This works differently then what is common in north America where we
use big columns that are the main support for the building. The outer
shell would be to keep out the elements only and didn't support
themselves.

So The British went ahead and built all of these high rises and were
very exited about it because now they had cheap affordable housing for
many.

The big mistake is that they also installed gas lines and gas
appliances into these buildings. About a month after construction of
some of the first buildings all hell broke loose when one of the
residence left their stove running with no flame (told ya so). The
single apartment at the mid section of the building exploded. Because
the place was built like a house of cards there was a domino effect.
Not the whole building fell down on itself but 1/4 of it was missing
in the corner where the apartment had exploded. There was a bunch of
deaths and fatalities.

They made another wrong decision when they decided to simply shrug it
off as an accident as if it couldn't happen again. They couldn't be
more wrong.

Some time later it happened again (natural gas explosion), this time a
lot worse. And I can still see in my head a poor couple who lived to
tell about it when their apartment fell down from the rest of the
building. "My husband jumped on top of me and said I love you and
that the flat (apartment) was falling."

After that they started making some big changes.

Most of the new apartment buildings where torn down deemed as unsafe.
Only one or two of them that weren't built that tall were spared. All
they had to do was put in reinforces or fasteners that held each wall
and floor section together instead of just relying on gravity to do
the job. And of course in the end they ended up removing all gas
appliances and infrastructure and installed all electric's in it's
place.

This was a most unfortunate incident. Two incidents that didn't have
to happen. If it's comforting to anyone, at least we might learn from
these horrific experiences. The company that built the buildings went
belly under and is still in debt till this day.

On 24 Jun 2003 21:14:43 -0700
(Eastward Bound) wrote:
snip
The
single apartment at the mid section of the building exploded. Because
the place was built like a house of cards there was a domino effect.
Not the whole building fell down on itself but 1/4 of it was missing
in the corner where the apartment had exploded.
snip
I saw that on TV. Really peculiar looking; all the apartments on one
corner neatly sheared off.

(Eastward Bound) writes:
Like what one of the previous posters said, "It's undocumented because
it's so frequent."

Um, I didn't see anybody say that. In fact, I said exactly
the opposite, i.e., that the reason why it seems like there
are so many gas explosions reported in the media is because
they happen so infrequently that they're a big deal, so every
one of them gets reported.

Eastward Bound wrote:
Like what one of the previous posters said, "It's undocumented because
it's so frequent."

You are so full of bull**** that it's funny.

n.o@spam wrote:
Search www.cnn.com for 'gas leak house explode'
found over 5000 hits. Here are 3 examples...

Learn to do a web search properly, your search is meaningless as others
point out.


From the Consumer Product Safety Commmission and National Fire
Protection Association:

quotes
Most home fires start in living rooms. Second is bedrooms, third is
kitchens.

The leading cause of fatal home fire is smoking, followed by: arson,
heating equipment, electrical distribution equipment, and then children
playing with fire.

The number one cause in home fire resulting in injury, however, is
cooking equipment.

Cooking is the leading cause of home fires in the U.S. It is also the
leading cause of fire injuries. Cooking fires often result from
unattended cooking and human error, rather than mechanical failure of
stoves or ovens.

Two of every three home heating fires in the U.S. in 1998, and three of
every four related deaths, were attributed to space heating equipment.
/quotes

So, let's see. Most fires start in the living room and bedroom where
you are extremely unlikely to find any natural gas equipment. The fires
that start in the 3rd most likely place, the kitchen, aren't caused by
equipment failure.

Of the fires caused by heating equipment most of the fires and even more
of the deaths are due to space heaters. I've never seen a space heater
that was run by natural gas, most of them are electric.

Eastward Bound wrote:
Same thing with commercial airliners.

As I thought, you don't understand how to evaluate personal risk. I bet
you fear tornados more than lightning, too, right?

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:02:49 +0000 (UTC),
(Jonathan Kamens) wrote:

As for large gas leaks, they just don't happen that often, and
as I said before, I'm fairly certain that more people are
injured by electricity-related accidents than gas-related
accidents.

Death caused by electricity (both directly via electrocution, and by
short-circuit induced fire) is at least several magnitudes more a
concern than the dangers involved with natural gas leaks. It's funny
how in the earthquake capitol of the USA, Gas is king, by far.
Propane is more of a concern than natural gas, being heavier than air.

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.

Fast Times At Ridgemont High Info http://www.FastTimesAtRidgemontHigh.org
Voted #87 - American Film Institute's Top 100 Funniest American Films

On 23 Jun 2003 23:02:52 -0700, (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

The Advantage of a house with all electric appliances instead of gas
is that you don't have to run natural gas lines through the home.

fear-monger much?

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.

Fast Times At Ridgemont High Info http://www.FastTimesAtRidgemontHigh.org
Voted #87 - American Film Institute's Top 100 Funniest American Films

"Eastward Bound" wrote in message
om...
The wrong lesson was learned. The correct lesson is to build high-rise
apartments in such a manner that isolated damage will not result in the
failure of the entire structure.


Oh but the fact remains that Natural gas is risky business. It was,
is and always will be more dangerous and it will put more at risk when
things go wrong.

Maybe you would be singing a different tune if your house was
pulverized from a gas leak?

Or maybe you would see things more clearly if only you could have seen
those scorched bodies personally so that you can get a whiff of the
sell of cooked/burned human flesh.

There is no *running away* from a gas explosion. It's all or nothing,
you either get burned/killed or your survive it as a burn victim.

Same thing with commercial airliners. You either make it to your
destination, or everyone on board dies. That is the trade off for
economy and convenience. The trade off is risks and danger. Lots of
it.

There is no running from a gas explosion. There are no fender-benders
thousands of feet up in the air.

Relax. You're not going to make it out of here alive anyway.

Since you are obviously a fearful sort of person, I sure hope you don't ever
drive or ride in a car. Checked the stats on that lately?

Bill Seurer wrote in message ...

Of the fires caused by heating equipment most of the fires and even more
of the deaths are due to space heaters. I've never seen a space heater
that was run by natural gas, most of them are electric.


Where I grew up, in western New England, gas space heaters were (and are)
quite common. A lot of the housing stock was built before central heating
was the norm, so places had no ductwork. Putting in a gas line was a
relatively cheap retrofit - the line would feed a "gas and gas" stove (gas
cooking and gas space heating) in the kitchen, probably a gas hot water
heater also in a corner of the kitchen, and a gas space heater in the living
room.

The kitchen stove space heater wouldn't have a fan to distribute the heat,
but the living room space heater usually did. If you wanted heat in the
bedrooms, you left the bedroom doors open so that warm(er) air could drift
in from one of the heated rooms. The heaters were thermostatically
controlled but you couldn't set a temperature - settings were marked Off, 1,
2, 3...,9, Max. The spiffier models had a glass panel in front so you could
see the fire. While visually somewhat obtrusive, they're pretty cosy.

Albert Wagner wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:34:12 -0500
Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote:
snip
Of the fires caused by heating equipment most of the fires and even
more of the deaths are due to space heaters. I've never seen a space
heater that was run by natural gas, most of them are electric.

When I was growing up each room in a house had a valve in the wall for
natural gas space heaters. This was before central or wall heaters
became common. I imagine that many of the old houses still have such
valves and many probably still use natural gas space heaters. I have no
doubt that the causes of fire due to electrical problems, which you
point out, are true. But as a previous poster pointed out: there is no
such thing as an all gas house; Even gas appliances require electricity;
So that even with gas appliances you have the same risk of fire due to
electrical problems; when you add gas appliances to the mix, you add
additional sources of fire on top of electrical sources.

I've had two gas stoves (both in rented apartments) and an aunt had one for
her whole adult life, that had no need of electricity. You lit the burners
and the oven with a pilot light, or a match. No oven light bulb, no clock
on the stove, nothing electrical at all. Not all gas appliances require
electricity. Or at least, not all gas appliances always did.

Same thing with commercial airliners. You either make it to your
destination, or everyone on board dies.

*coff*(bull****) *coff*

Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote in message ...
Eastward Bound wrote:
Like what one of the previous posters said, "It's undocumented because
it's so frequent."

You are so full of bull**** that it's funny.


Oh so now little Billy has resorted to name calling.

Fact of life kid: if you are going to act like a child then you are
going to be treated like a child.

Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote in message ...

Oh Billy boooooyyyyyyyyyyyy...

http://www.angelfire.com/ri2/fires/images/exp2.jpg

See what happened to your house that you were still struggling to pay
the rent for?

Too bad you were using Gas Appliances. So sad Billy boy so sad. If
only you were listening, this unfortunate event could have been
avoided.

What a waste, this didn't have to happen.

Too bad Billy boy, much too bad...

Chloe wrote:
"Eastward Bound" wrote in message
om...
There is no running from a gas explosion. There are no fender-benders
thousands of feet up in the air.

Since you are obviously a fearful sort of person, I sure hope you don't ever
drive or ride in a car. Checked the stats on that lately?

I wonder if EB realizes that gasoline is much more explosive than
natural gas? Poor guy won't want to go anywhere any more with all those
bombs driving around out there just waiting to blow up!

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:25:43 -0500
Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net wrote:
snip
The destruction from any sort of fire is memorable too. I saw a grain

elevator explode once. The fireball shot hundreds of feet up into the

air and completely destroyed the huge building. That doesn't stop me
from eating cereal and pasta, though.

But I bet you think twice before building next to a grain elevator.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:49:39 -0500, Bill Seurer Bill_AT_seurer.net
wrote:

Chloe wrote:
"Eastward Bound" wrote in message
om...
There is no running from a gas explosion. There are no fender-benders
thousands of feet up in the air.

Since you are obviously a fearful sort of person, I sure hope you don't ever
drive or ride in a car. Checked the stats on that lately?

I wonder if EB realizes that gasoline is much more explosive than
natural gas? Poor guy won't want to go anywhere any more with all those
bombs driving around out there just waiting to blow up!

No kidding. I bet he mows his one-acre yard with a B&D electric
mower, too. Or perhaps even a push reel one!

Chloe wrote:
With all due respect, EB writes like someone who has suffered a personal
loss due to a home gas explosion.

Personal loss is no excuse for fear mongering and outright lies.

I know of two that have happened in areas
near where I live over the last 8 or 10 years or so. The destruction, when
viewed, is memorable.

The destruction from any sort of fire is memorable too. I saw a grain
elevator explode once. The fireball shot hundreds of feet up into the
air and completely destroyed the huge building. That doesn't stop me
from eating cereal and pasta, though.

htmlinput type crash/html
begin
On 25 Jun 2003 13:17:50 -0700, Eastward Bound wrote:
The wrong lesson was learned. The correct lesson is to build high-rise
apartments in such a manner that isolated damage will not result in the
failure of the entire structure.


Oh but the fact remains that Natural gas is risky business. It was,
is and always will be more dangerous and it will put more at risk when
things go wrong.

so is living


Maybe you would be singing a different tune if your house was
pulverized from a gas leak?

Or maybe you would see things more clearly if only you could have seen
those scorched bodies personally so that you can get a whiff of the
....insane rant snipped

There is no running from a gas explosion. There are no fender-benders
thousands of feet up in the air.

You use electric heat and an electric car? If you use a lawn mower, it's
electric too, right?
Do you ever enter residences using gas?

They have drugs nowadays that can help you.

Albert Wagner wrote in message .. .
On 24 Jun 2003 21:14:43 -0700
(Eastward Bound) wrote:
snip
The
single apartment at the mid section of the building exploded. Because
the place was built like a house of cards there was a domino effect.
Not the whole building fell down on itself but 1/4 of it was missing
in the corner where the apartment had exploded.
snip
I saw that on TV. Really peculiar looking; all the apartments on one
corner neatly sheared off.


This only goes to show just how dangerous Gas used in the home can be.


EastBound-

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:41:25 GMT
Jeff Cochran wrote:
snip
...that's over
four tons. Even as dead weight, that's a fair load, not to mention
movement. Nobody would think of parking two compact cars on that
porch and expect it to stand up.

children would

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:41:25 GMT
Jeff Cochran wrote:
snip
...that's over
four tons. Even as dead weight, that's a fair load, not to mention
movement. Nobody would think of parking two compact cars on that
porch and expect it to stand up.

children would

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:41:25 GMT
Jeff Cochran wrote:
snip
...that's over
four tons. Even as dead weight, that's a fair load, not to mention
movement. Nobody would think of parking two compact cars on that
porch and expect it to stand up.

children would