Interesting that your builder is charging extra for the gas line. Is he
including a circuit for an electric dryer in for free? I've been offered
one or the other at no charge with the 2 houses I've had built. The person
who suggested putting in both had a pretty good suggestion. Relatively
inexpensive, when you consider the price of your townhouse, the monthly
payment you make will change by only pennies, probably.

Keep in mind that if gas prices go up, electric rates may rise right along
with them. Many utilities burn natural gas to generate electricity. Some
may switch to another fuel if they can, but that fuel would likely rise as
well.

That said, when we switched from an electric dryer to natural gas a decade
ago, we noticed a several dollar per month drop in our electric bill. Maybe
$75 per year. We did not notice much of an increase at all in our gas bill.
So call it maybe $65 per year, so total payback in less than 3 years. Your
results will vary based on the utility rates in your area. In this area,
electricity is relatively inexpensive $0.07 per kwh. and gas is about 77
per therm.

I've had to replace one timer on my electric dryer in the 5 years I've owned
it (Kenmore)
In the 12 years I've owned 2 gas dryers, both Maytags, no repairs needed.
Hardly representative, I know, but that's my experience.

HTH
Dave

"BrianEWilliams" wrote in message
om...
We are buying a new construction townhouse. Installing a gas line to
the laundry area will be $100. A gas dryer cost $53 more than the
same model in electric. I have seen headlines saying gas prices are
going up. My question is this. Does anyone have a opinion on how
long it will take me to save back my extra $153 in upfront costs for
the gas dryer? Obviously this depends on the relative price of gas
vs. electricity in the future which no one can predict, but opinions
are welcome.

Also, are there any maintenance issues with gas vs. electric dryers?
This is the gas model we are thinking of getting:

The Advantage of a house with all electric appliances instead of gas
is that you don't have to run natural gas lines through the home.

For those of you who are safety oriented this can be important if you
are concerned about gas building up inside the house and a huge
explosion leveling the whole property afterwards. Some apartments and
condos don't have any gas at all in the for that very same reason
because the risk is greater.

If not in explosion then the residents can get gassed out and killed
while they are sleeping. There was a time long ago when lighting
fixtures were not electric but has gas coming through them and burned
gas to create light. I don't think it's even documented how many
people died from being gassed out from the gas itself or from the
buildup or carbon dioxide or from being burned.

For those of you who live in earthquake country your better off not
having gas if you want to be safe. This is why it is mandatory to
know exactly where is the main gas shut off valve for your house so
that you can immediately secure your residence by getting a wrench and
turning the valve closed so that your house won't explode.

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

Scour the Internet for the situation where a gas main exploded and
burned a whole community somewhere in California. There was a
situation once where a train derailed at a bedroom community. Two
houses were leveled I believe because they were by the tracks that was
a sharp turn. (stupid place to build a house in my opinion) Silently
underground there was a serious problem being a fracture in the main
gas line. Days later after the train derailment the line burst and
gas was shot up hundreds of feet into the air. Minutes later the
worst imaginable had happened once all of that fuel ignited. It was
such a great tragedy indeed and I still remember watching it on a
documentary as if it were only yesterday. Some of those poor people
who were still alive to talk about it, it was tragic.

My, what amazing fear-mongering about natural gas. Are you paid by
the electric company, or what? Here's a different point of view, from
http://utilities.dteenergy.com/infoZone/safety/gasSafety.html:

The Facts

Natural gas is one of the safest energy sources available to
homeowners and businesses alike. By itself, natural gas will not
ignite. For ignition to occur, a mixture of gas between four and 14
percent must combine with air. Also, gas must have an ignition
source with a temperature of 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit or more before
it will ignite.

Because gas is lighter than air, it will rise and disperse. That's
why you should open windows and doors if you smell gas.

I suspect that if you research the subject, you will find that more
people are injured or killed and more property is damaged as a result
of electrical fires than as a result of gas leaks.

You mentioned, without any details, a gas main explosion which "burned
a whole community somewhere in California." If that really happened,
then sure, it's a terrible tragedy. But the fact that it happened
doesn't really prove much about the safety of natural gas, any more
than Boston's great molasses flood of 1919 proves anything about the
safety of molasses.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:25:51 +0000 (UTC)
(Jonathan Kamens) wrote:

My, what amazing fear-mongering about natural gas. Are you paid by
the electric company, or what? Here's a different point of view, from
http://utilities.dteenergy.com/infoZone/safety/gasSafety.html:

The Facts

Natural gas is one of the safest energy sources available to
homeowners and businesses alike. By itself, natural gas will not
ignite. For ignition to occur, a mixture of gas between four and 14
percent must combine with air. Also, gas must have an ignition
source with a temperature of 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit or more before
it will ignite.

Like a pilot light?


Because gas is lighter than air, it will rise and disperse. That's
why you should open windows and doors if you smell gas.

If you are there and awake to smell it.


I suspect that if you research the subject, you will find that more
people are injured or killed and more property is damaged as a result
of electrical fires than as a result of gas leaks.

It is harder to outrun an explosion than a fire.


You mentioned, without any details, a gas main explosion which "burned
a whole community somewhere in California." If that really happened,
then sure, it's a terrible tragedy. But the fact that it happened
doesn't really prove much about the safety of natural gas, any more
than Boston's great molasses flood of 1919 proves anything about the
safety of molasses.

Albert Wagner writes:
Like a pilot light?

One of the neat things about pilot lights and gas leaks is
that since the pilot light is always burning, it is always
burning off any gas in its vicinity. So no, a pilot light is
unlikely to ignite an explosion as a result of a small gas
leak.

As for large gas leaks, they just don't happen that often, and
as I said before, I'm fairly certain that more people are
injured by electricity-related accidents than gas-related
accidents.

It is harder to outrun an explosion than a fire.

Irrelevant if the fires happen much more often than the
explosions.

I submit that the reason why every pretty much gas leak and
explosion is reported in the media is because they happen so
rarely.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:02:49 +0000 (UTC),
(Jonathan Kamens) wrote:

As for large gas leaks, they just don't happen that often, and
as I said before, I'm fairly certain that more people are
injured by electricity-related accidents than gas-related
accidents.

Death caused by electricity (both directly via electrocution, and by
short-circuit induced fire) is at least several magnitudes more a
concern than the dangers involved with natural gas leaks. It's funny
how in the earthquake capitol of the USA, Gas is king, by far.
Propane is more of a concern than natural gas, being heavier than air.

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.

Fast Times At Ridgemont High Info http://www.FastTimesAtRidgemontHigh.org
Voted #87 - American Film Institute's Top 100 Funniest American Films

"Eastward Bound" wrote in message
om...
The Advantage of a house with all electric appliances instead of gas
is that you don't have to run natural gas lines through the home.

i looked specifically for a place with natural gas appliances, and heating.
in so cal, gas is cheaper than electricity.

For those of you who are safety oriented this can be important if you
are concerned about gas building up inside the house and a huge
explosion leveling the whole property afterwards. Some apartments and
condos don't have any gas at all in the for that very same reason
because the risk is greater.

my condo was built in 81 and has a gas stove, water heater, clothes dryer,
and central heat. i like it. it also meets all earthquake codes and has
apparently been thru a few of em since it was built with no damage at all.

If not in explosion then the residents can get gassed out and killed
while they are sleeping. There was a time long ago when lighting
fixtures were not electric but has gas coming through them and burned
gas to create light. I don't think it's even documented how many
people died from being gassed out from the gas itself or from the
buildup or carbon dioxide or from being burned.

might not be documented because it wasnt a big issue. how many gas station
fires are documented? i rarely hear of one, yet we all pump flammable liquid
fuel in our vehicles regularly.

For those of you who live in earthquake country your better off not
having gas if you want to be safe. This is why it is mandatory to
know exactly where is the main gas shut off valve for your house so
that you can immediately secure your residence by getting a wrench and
turning the valve closed so that your house won't explode.

true. its also nice to be able to shut off your power in case of short
circuits, and water in case of ruptured pipes.

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

Scour the Internet for the situation where a gas main exploded and
burned a whole community somewhere in California. There was a
situation once where a train derailed at a bedroom community. Two
houses were leveled I believe because they were by the tracks that was
a sharp turn. (stupid place to build a house in my opinion) Silently
underground there was a serious problem being a fracture in the main
gas line. Days later after the train derailment the line burst and
gas was shot up hundreds of feet into the air. Minutes later the
worst imaginable had happened once all of that fuel ignited. It was
such a great tragedy indeed and I still remember watching it on a
documentary as if it were only yesterday. Some of those poor people
who were still alive to talk about it, it was tragic.

**** happens. powerlines fall and kill people too. you work for So Cal
edison, doncha?

On 23 Jun 2003 23:02:52 -0700, (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

There is one other thing, I don't know if Gas lines can freeze up the
way water lines do. You can't know everything and I wish somebody
would pitch in on the matter.

In Rochester, NY, with winter months routinely experiencing long
periods of freezing temperatures, gas lines do not freeze up.

In Rochester, NY, with winter months routinely experiencing long
periods of freezing temperatures, gas lines do not freeze up.

True, but houses do blow up there. 40 years ago a whole street blew up. I
don't remember what it was; a big surge in pressure or something like that.

"Wade Lippman" wrote in message et.net...
True, but houses do blow up there. 40 years ago a whole street blew up. I
don't remember what it was; a big surge in pressure or something like that.

You know what Mr. Lippman. What you have heard of is by no means an
isolated occurrence.

Houses explode from gas leaks all the time.

The biggest gas line danger in a home are the flexible gas lines that
connect the clothes dryer to the gas line along with the stove and the
water heater that use the flexible connection as well.

DANGEROUS! Here in Cali at least I know that it is illegal for anyone
to install a new gas appliance without putting in a new flexible metal
gas line.

Also what if nobody is home to smell the gas leak? (Vacation most
likely, most home owners are not smart enough to shut off the main gas
valve before they leave the house) Then it just keeps building up more
and more until all 4 houses the 3 surrounding houses included are
blown up.

There was once incident somewhere in North America where an Elderly
couple were getting more and more sick and they would sleep for the
whole day through and would have to use crutches. They felt tired all
the time and would vomit and they didn't know why.

Eventually the house cat (cats have an acute sense of smell) was seen
digging in the side of the house. The Lady went up to her cat and
noticed that there was a bad odor and a hissing sound from the gas
leaking out into the ground.

The gas company came with one of those testers that can sense how
strong the gas concentration is and it was off the scale.

That very same couple are a lot better now but are extremely lucky to
be alive. They were suffering from the poisoning and their house was
filling up with gas without them knowing. They are lucky that they
didn't quite literally blow up.

Sure there is a danger using electric appliances as well. The
difference is when you introduce gas appliances into the house, you
and your loved ones are now more at risk. Every house would have
electricity anyway. Having a gas appliance only adds more risks along
with a lot more things that can go wrong.

Remember, "What ever can go wrong will go wrong." Murphys law...

I'm not trying to by like Ralph Nader here going overboard. I'm just
saying that now that I am aware of all of the possible dangers
involved and the smart thing to do would be to make wise decisions to
keep you and your loved ones safe. Wouldn't you want to keep your
loved ones safe? There is nothing worse then a parent outliving a
child.

If for whatever impossible reason I were forced to use gas appliances
I would have them all inspected annually and would replace all the
flexible gas lines every year. Now if you had to inspect all of your
gas equipment and infrastructure annually how is that more frugal then
just using the more maintenance free electric appliances in the first
place?

A burn victim from flash burnings can be the most tragic accidents to
live through. I have seen burn victims and it is not pretty seeing
them like that uncomfortable no matter what they do. They don't even
look human anymore. Being a burn victim is no different then loosing
your hearing, loosing your vision or becoming a cripple. It's sad,
it's tragic and it's most unfortunate. The worst part about it is
that it would have been avoided if only one took the necessary
precautions.

On 23 Jun 2003 23:02:52 -0700, (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

The Advantage of a house with all electric appliances instead of gas
is that you don't have to run natural gas lines through the home.

fear-monger much?

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.

Fast Times At Ridgemont High Info http://www.FastTimesAtRidgemontHigh.org
Voted #87 - American Film Institute's Top 100 Funniest American Films