In article .com, Caledonia
says...


Banty wrote:
In article . com, Caledonia
says...




I'm perplexed -- what's the crime in progress? (A small bit of googling
indicated that there are MA bills recently in committee for
decriminalizing possession of a small amount of pot, and making
offenders subject to a civil citation, not criminal citation).

"Recently in committee" not.equal "law". Far from it. Far far from it. Some
folks wanting a change does not a democratic decision make.

True. I was recently made aware by a friend that VT has passed the
medical marijuana law (as had Maine), and was just thinking that maybe,
just maybe, MA would follow-on.

If I were shinypenny, I'd approach them about it, indicate that I don't
want to **** them off, but would be happier if they could find a
different spot. (Just like she said above...), and hope there's no hard
feelings.

I'd say something like "I have to ask you that I not see illegal activities,
and, no, I can't reasonably be expected to look away from your yard everytime
I'm in my yard, that impinges upon the normal use of my property" and leave it
up to them exactly what that means. Repeat statement as necessary. No
discussion regarding law, ethics, democratic action, brain chemistry, what other
people do, or social philosophy needed or even desirable. Just that she doesn't
want to implicitly consent to an illegal activity and have her children see it.
Period. They can move their gardening enterprise to the other side of their
house; they can do their growing in the basement under sunlamps (I'd wager
they're quite experienced at that!); they can just quit this activity, but
that's not for her to specify.

I'd skip the 'not see illegal activities' as it seems too
confrontational for no good reason. IMO, it ups the ante, and sure,
they may just be old stoners looking for dope, or they may be dealing
with Mr. End-Stage-Bad-Disease.

In which case they should still be outfitting their basement, at the least.

If it's the former, the neighbors are
getting the police on speed-dial for the first time someone under the
age of 21 appears to have consumed alcohol on Shiny's property, or the
first time an illegal alien comes by to shovel snow; if it's the
latter, well, I'd just feel pretty darn bad.

I dunno. At least on my property no one not in my family (which is exempted in
our law) would be consuming at under age 21, nor would an illegal alien by
shovelling my snow - a 50 year old well-established US citizen does the plowing.

I don't think this is a case for calling the cops certainly, but neither do I go
in for this nudge nudge wink wink I-can break-the-law-and-you-can-too
attitude-we'll-just-not-see-each-other-do-it.

Banty


--

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.com...
In article dMhrg.16259$5i3.10846@trnddc01, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

i don't think ANY type of cannibis is legal in this country; not even the
type with no thc. and i think hemp is in it.

You may be right... but after the nonsense you posted about becoming an
accessory by failing to report it, I doubt anyone here is too inclined to
take
your legal opinions very seriously....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

and if wiki isn't good enough, just keep searching.

or perhaps it's legal to grow pot in this country as long as you don't
harvest it?

i'd bet if she asked a lawyer.....which might be a good idea. call it
peace-of-mind money spent.



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Otto Mation (Caroline Freisen)" wrote in message
...
Haven't read all of the responses, but in case it hasn't been
suggested by now (improbable) sounds like time for a nice 6' redwood
fence!

My guess is trying to talk to the neighbors is a bad plan. They
obviously know you have kids, and they obviously don't give a damn.
Why waste your breath and risk ongoing tension for who knows how many
years to come? Build a fence!

but find out your property line first.

CF

In article buurg.16$Th7.6@trnddc05, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.com...
In article dMhrg.16259$5i3.10846@trnddc01, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

i don't think ANY type of cannibis is legal in this country; not even the
type with no thc. and i think hemp is in it.

You may be right... but after the nonsense you posted about becoming an
accessory by failing to report it, I doubt anyone here is too inclined to
take
your legal opinions very seriously....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

and if wiki isn't good enough, just keep searching.

No, that's more than sufficient to demonstrate that you have no idea
what you're talking about. Thanks for proving my point. Quoting: "An accessory
is a person who assists in the commission of a crime...". You're claiming that
merely by failing to report a crime, a person becomes an accessory -- complete
nonsense.

or perhaps it's legal to grow pot in this country as long as you don't
harvest it?

Without a laboratory analysis, the OP has no way of knowing that it even *is*
pot.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

if you know it's there and don't report it, you're an accessory and may
be charged as such should the police find it and can tell that you could
see it. it may not even matter if you told them you had no idea what
pot looked like.

If there's a medical mariujuana law in the jurisdiction, the
fact that they are growing it may be perfectly legal. (However
placing the plants where minors might easily access them
would probably run afoul of some law or another.)

Steve

Alan Sung wrote:

Just a small squirt of Round-up would be better. The plant would slowly
wither away.

Surely it's illegal to squirt Round-up on a neighbor's plant,
regardless of what plant it is.

Steve

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article buurg.16$Th7.6@trnddc05, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
gy.com...
In article dMhrg.16259$5i3.10846@trnddc01,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

i don't think ANY type of cannibis is legal in this country; not even
the
type with no thc. and i think hemp is in it.

You may be right... but after the nonsense you posted about becoming an
accessory by failing to report it, I doubt anyone here is too inclined
to
take
your legal opinions very seriously....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

and if wiki isn't good enough, just keep searching.

No, that's more than sufficient to demonstrate that you have no idea
what you're talking about. Thanks for proving my point. Quoting: "An
accessory
is a person who assists in the commission of a crime...". You're claiming
that
merely by failing to report a crime, a person becomes an accessory --
complete
nonsense.

read a litte mo

In some jurisdictions, an accessory is distinguished from an accomplice, who
normally is present at the crime and participates in some way.

An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or
will be committed. A person with such knowledge may become an accessory
by helping or encouraging the criminal in some way, or
simply by failing to report the crime to proper authority. The
assistance to the criminal may be of any type, including emotional or
financial assistance as well as physical assistance or concealment.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/a007.htm

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

shinypenny wrote:
You're thinking just like me: I was trying to figure out how fast it
would be growing too, at this point in the season, if it was really
marijuana.

That is not what I was thinking at all. I was asking because
people who know what they're doing do not grow tall varieties
of marijuana. I don't smoke, nor am I a horticulturalist; I
am a botanist, which means I *study* plants. However, it is
my understanding that plant selection in the marijuana growing
community is toward varieties that are very short and produce
the least leaf and the most flower buds. That is the stuff of
interest to police.

I have seen marijuana in excess of 6 feet tall and with mature
seed, growing in the wide open in people's back yards. Frankly,
that is probably not worth smoking. Certainly it is not worth
buying through a dealer.


Una wrote:
Have they flowered yet?

No. When would that happen?

Depends what it is, and where you are located.

Are there any flower buds yet?


What else could it be, eh? Hemp. Or hops. See a comparative
illustration (http://delta-intkey.com/angio/images/canna675.gif)

It's definetly not hops - leaves are bigger and lusher.

Which has bigger, lusher leaves? The hops in the illustration,
or the suspect plants in your neighbors' garden?


and short description of the (very small) family that includes
marijuana (http://delta-intkey.com/angio/www/cannabid.htm).

Couldn't understand a word of it. :-(

Take/send the description along with the sample when you ask
for an ID. Using a good technical description like this, a
trained botanist who has never seen marijuana can nonetheless
tell if your sample is marijuana. Or use the illustration
as a guide to which minute details of the plant you should
photograph so a botanist can make an ID from the photographs.

Una

Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Una wrote:

Or hops.

ROFLMAO!

There is NO way to confuse pot with hops.

You might be surprised at what people are capable of confusing.

Hops with compound leaves (the conventional "marijuana" leaf)
in fact looks a lot like marijuana, and for good reason: it is
closely related.

http://delta-intkey.com/angio/www/cannabid.htm describes leaf
shape in the family Cannabidaceae: "simple, or compound; when
compound, palmate". Leaf shape varies within the two genera,
which is why the description does *not* say "simple (Humulus),
or compound (Cannabis)". Hops usually has simple leaves, but I
know from personal experience hops can have compound leaves.
Marijuana usually has compound leaves. When compound, leaves
of both hops and marijuana are palmate.

The main difference between Humulus and Cannabis in the above
description is this: "self supporting (Cannabis), or climbing
(Humulus)". But at just 2 feet tall, a stem climber as robust
as most Humulus may be expected to still be self supporting.
Perhaps these plants are Humulus with compound leaves, and the
neighbors are simply postponing installing a trellis (or some
other appropriate support) until the plants need the support.
That is the only technical difference you can evaluate without
touching the plants.

There is a second difference: "laticifers [...] contents [ie
the juice that oozes out when the plant is wounded] resinous
in Cannabis, colourless in Humulus". The authors' meaning of
"resinous" is unclear; I would guess they mean the juice has
an amber color, but that is a guess...

The third difference you can check only after the plants have
gone to seed: "embryo curved (Cannabis), or coiled (Humulus)".

Una

In article , Una wrote:

Hops with compound leaves (the conventional "marijuana" leaf)
in fact looks a lot like marijuana, and for good reason:

Hops is a vine. Maybe, just maybe, a new hops plant for a week or three
could be confused with pot at a distance.

I'd think lupins would be more easily confused with pot than hops.

And, yes, in the past I've grown all three. I have a huge hops vine in
the yard right now.

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article buurg.16$Th7.6@trnddc05, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
gy.com...
In article dMhrg.16259$5i3.10846@trnddc01,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

i don't think ANY type of cannibis is legal in this country; not even
the
type with no thc. and i think hemp is in it.

You may be right... but after the nonsense you posted about becoming an
accessory by failing to report it, I doubt anyone here is too inclined
to
take
your legal opinions very seriously....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

and if wiki isn't good enough, just keep searching.

No, that's more than sufficient to demonstrate that you have no idea
what you're talking about. Thanks for proving my point. Quoting: "An
accessory
is a person who assists in the commission of a crime...". You're claiming
that
merely by failing to report a crime, a person becomes an accessory --
complete
nonsense.

read a litte mo

In some jurisdictions, an accessory is distinguished from an accomplice, who
normally is present at the crime and participates in some way.

An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or
will be committed. A person with such knowledge may become an accessory
by helping or encouraging the criminal in some way, or
simply by failing to report the crime to proper authority. The
assistance to the criminal may be of any type, including emotional or
financial assistance as well as physical assistance or concealment.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/a007.htm

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18



And this has exactly what to do with the current topic? The OP hasn''t
received, relieved, comforted or assisted the neighbor in any way.
She has no way of even knowing IF a crime has been committed. She's no
expert in identifying marijuana. Does she live in a state where
medical marijuana is permitted? Maybe the elderly neighbor has a
medical condition and is allowed under the law to grow marijuana. Is
she supposed to check that out to, or should everyone start ratting out
their neighbors to the cops over fear of being sent to jail?

And beyond that, I'd like to see a single case where someone was
charged, let alone convicted for simply failing to report a crime that
they happened to see in a neighbors yard, with no other involvement.
To claim that this occurs, is beyond stupid.

A charge of being an accessory is used exactly as described in the law
above. And that is when there is involvement way beyond just seeing
something that might be a crime.

Shinypenny, I don't understand your "kid gloves" approach when you're
stated concern is your daughters. A fence still sounds like the most
pragmatic approach, in view of your great concern over not offending
your neighbors about their law breaking.

That said, there are times when breaking the law regarding marijuana
"farming" is a valid thing, in my opinion. It can be a major help in
contolling glaucoma, and it is also extremely valuable in controlling
the nausea that goes hand in hand with cancer and AIDS treatment.
Despite these known and highly valuable medicinal uses, only a
handfull of states allow medicinal cannabis, and the federal
government (assuming you're in the U.S.) fights them. The pot
growing MAY be for medical use. Which doesn't change the problem of
them growing it where your daughters and their friends are exposed to
the practice.

Do you have some reason to hope they read this newsgroup and will
figure out they may be a problem for you? Otherwise thousands of
posts here won't change your situation. That's up to you.

CF

Otto Mation (Caroline Freisen) wrote:
Shinypenny, I don't understand your "kid gloves" approach when you're
stated concern is your daughters. A fence still sounds like the most
pragmatic approach, in view of your great concern over not offending
your neighbors about their law breaking.

I agree. Talking to neighbor is out. So is calling cops. Sending
anonyomous letter is no good because they would think it most likely
she did it, even though it's not confrontational and has plausible
deniability.

Either she's a troll or a complete wuss. Maybe she should just move
instead.




That said, there are times when breaking the law regarding marijuana
"farming" is a valid thing, in my opinion. It can be a major help in
contolling glaucoma, and it is also extremely valuable in controlling
the nausea that goes hand in hand with cancer and AIDS treatment.
Despite these known and highly valuable medicinal uses, only a
handfull of states allow medicinal cannabis, and the federal
government (assuming you're in the U.S.) fights them. The pot
growing MAY be for medical use. Which doesn't change the problem of
them growing it where your daughters and their friends are exposed to
the practice.

Do you have some reason to hope they read this newsgroup and will
figure out they may be a problem for you? Otherwise thousands of
posts here won't change your situation. That's up to you.

CF

In article kAzrg.124$pB.46@trnddc06, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" wrote:

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

And where does that say that failing to report a crime makes one an accessory?

Once again, thanks for proving my point.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote in message
oups.com...

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article buurg.16$Th7.6@trnddc05, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
gy.com...
In article dMhrg.16259$5i3.10846@trnddc01,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

i don't think ANY type of cannibis is legal in this country; not even
the
type with no thc. and i think hemp is in it.

You may be right... but after the nonsense you posted about becoming
an
accessory by failing to report it, I doubt anyone here is too
inclined
to
take
your legal opinions very seriously....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

and if wiki isn't good enough, just keep searching.

No, that's more than sufficient to demonstrate that you have no idea
what you're talking about. Thanks for proving my point. Quoting: "An
accessory
is a person who assists in the commission of a crime...". You're
claiming
that
merely by failing to report a crime, a person becomes an accessory --
complete
nonsense.

read a litte mo

In some jurisdictions, an accessory is distinguished from an accomplice,
who
normally is present at the crime and participates in some way.

An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or
will be committed. A person with such knowledge may become an
accessory
by helping or encouraging the criminal in some way, or
simply by failing to report the crime to proper authority. The
assistance to the criminal may be of any type, including emotional
or
financial assistance as well as physical assistance or concealment.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/a007.htm

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order
to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by
another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

And this has exactly what to do with the current topic? The OP hasn''t
received, relieved, comforted or assisted the neighbor in any way.

failure to report a crime.

An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or
will be committed.

now whether there's a crime being committed, only she knows based upon her
state.

She has no way of even knowing IF a crime has been committed. She's no
expert in identifying marijuana. Does she live in a state where

really? she herself indicated that SHE COULD ID POT AT AGE 13.

medical marijuana is permitted? Maybe the elderly neighbor has a
medical condition and is allowed under the law to grow marijuana. Is
she supposed to check that out to, or should everyone start ratting out
their neighbors to the cops over fear of being sent to jail?

if someone is going to be brazen enough to break the law right in front of
me,
and basically dare me to do something about it, guess what? they lose.

in this case, assuming it's illegal, i wouldn't be so nice as to inquire on
usenet
what to do. i'd go over there and tell them they have until dawn to
disappear
those plants. no discussion, no argument.

if it's legal, i'd investigate whether or not a corruption of minors charge
would
apply since it's in sight of known minors, and if so, tell the neighbors
about it and then (see above).

if no corruption of minors charge was available, i'd put up some sort of
barrier, assuming
it's not growing on my land. if it is growing on my land, see 2 paragraphs
up.

yes, i'm an asshole. black or white, very seldom shades of gray.


And beyond that, I'd like to see a single case where someone was
charged, let alone convicted for simply failing to report a crime that
they happened to see in a neighbors yard, with no other involvement.
To claim that this occurs, is beyond stupid.

never claimed it occurred. just that it's the law.

A charge of being an accessory is used exactly as described in the law
above. And that is when there is involvement way beyond just seeing
something that might be a crime.

i've a a bil who's a cop. i'll email him and see what he has to say.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article kAzrg.124$pB.46@trnddc06, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order
to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by
another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

And where does that say that failing to report a crime makes one an
accessory?

failing to report a crime comes under:
assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension

if the pot is illegal, isn't that what she's doing? hindering/preventing
his apprehension?

it's like lying. you can lie by commission or by omission. that's why a
witness swears to tell the truth (don't lie), the whole truth (don't leave
anything out) and
nothing but the truth (don't add a lie to the truth).







Once again, thanks for proving my point.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article kAzrg.124$pB.46@trnddc06, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order
to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by
another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

And where does that say that failing to report a crime makes one an
accessory?

failing to report a crime comes under:
assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension

if the pot is illegal, isn't that what she's doing? hindering/preventing
his apprehension?

Are you really that stupid that you don't see the difference between
hindering/preventing arrest and simply not reporting what might
possibly be a crime?

An example of hindering/preventing apprehension is when you let someone
who you know has committed a crime and is wanted hide out in your
house. Of lie to the police with a false story, so the person can
escape.

Sure hope you never serve on a jury, as you are in over your head.





it's like lying. you can lie by commission or by omission. that's why a
witness swears to tell the truth (don't lie), the whole truth (don't leave
anything out) and
nothing but the truth (don't add a lie to the truth).







Once again, thanks for proving my point.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article XGSrg.1801$Wh7.193@trnddc07, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.com...
In article kAzrg.124$pB.46@trnddc06, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been
committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order
to
hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory
after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by
another,
receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the
felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

And where does that say that failing to report a crime makes one an
accessory?

failing to report a crime comes under:
assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension

Complete and utter nonsense.

if the pot is illegal, isn't that what she's doing? hindering/preventing
his apprehension?

Not at all.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article lySrg.1734$Ep.1136@trnddc08, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...


And this has exactly what to do with the current topic? The OP hasn''t
received, relieved, comforted or assisted the neighbor in any way.

failure to report a crime.

Nonsense. Failure to report a crime is not the same as assisting a criminal.

And even if it were -- the OP does *not* know that a crime is being committed.
When a person is arrested for possession, the police perform laboratory tests
to be sure that the substance is in fact what they think it is. Has the OP
done those tests? I'll bet not. And if not, she doesn't in fact know what hre
neighbors are growing. She may *think* she knows, but that's not the same.

An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or
will be committed.

now whether there's a crime being committed, only she knows based upon her
state.

Nonsense. See above.

She has no way of even knowing IF a crime has been committed. She's no
expert in identifying marijuana. Does she live in a state where

really? she herself indicated that SHE COULD ID POT AT AGE 13.

More nonsense. Yes, she said that -- but all that really means is that she
*thinks* she knows what it looks like. In the absence of laboratory tests, she
doesn't know.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Just another take on this...its a bad "damned if you do, damned if you
dont" situation here, but here's another perspective.

If you dont report it, and they get caught, and the cops start asking
you alot of questions...or....if one of your kids talks to one of their
friends and says "hey guess what, my neighbors are growing pot" and
that friend goes and tells their parents...so on, or someone overhears
them talkign about it at school. well anyway, I dont know what state
you are in but in most states, you have a Dept of Child Protective
Services, and without a doubt they are one of the most "shoot first,
ask question later" agencies around. Word could get around to them that
you are exposing your kids to pot, even in an indirect way, and next
thing you know a social worker and cops are at your front door looking
to take your kids away. Its a reality. I dont know what to tell you to
do, but I would elimate any risk that would possibly result in me
losing my kids, or at minimum, question my ability as a parent.

ncangelone wrote:
Just another take on this...its a bad "damned if you do, damned if you
dont" situation here, but here's another perspective.

If you dont report it, and they get caught, and the cops start asking
you alot of questions...or....if one of your kids talks to one of their
friends and says "hey guess what, my neighbors are growing pot" and
that friend goes and tells their parents...so on, or someone overhears
them talkign about it at school. well anyway, I dont know what state
you are in but in most states, you have a Dept of Child Protective
Services, and without a doubt they are one of the most "shoot first,
ask question later" agencies around. Word could get around to them that
you are exposing your kids to pot, even in an indirect way, and next
thing you know a social worker and cops are at your front door looking
to take your kids away. Its a reality. I dont know what to tell you to
do, but I would elimate any risk that would possibly result in me
losing my kids, or at minimum, question my ability as a parent.

This is another assine angle on the situation. The freaking alleged
pot, is on someone elses property. To suggest that child protective
agencies are gonna sieze someone;s kids because a neighbor has some
plant, that "might" be pot is beyond stupid.

In article .com, ncangelone
says...


This is another assine angle on the situation. The freaking alleged
pot, is on someone elses property. To suggest that child protective
agencies are gonna sieze someone;s kids because a neighbor has some
plant, that "might" be pot is beyond stupid.

No...its not asinine, especially when you have been through one of
DCF's witch hunts. 6 yrs ago my soccer playing son came to school with
a bruise on his face (him and another kid smacked heads in practice) -
we spent entire weekend with sheriff's at house and caseworkers, and
teachers and neighbors were interviewed, our pastor was tracked down, i
had to take him to a special clinic for a complete physical and
psychological assessment, just to be told in end, yeah, it looks like
sports injury.

Whyizzit I get this Paul Harvey What's The Rest of the Story feeling about
this....

Come clean - nasty divorce? Made an enemy of another parent? Injuries of
various stages of healing also noted? Said Other Kid didn't remember the
incident and doesn't have a bruise on his face? Not saying it's all your fault
(necessarily!), but...

Because, if your story is plausible, just about every single family will have
been repeatedly subjected to your little horror story, and you and I everyone
reading knows that's not the case.

Banty (who hates witch hunts about witch hunts...)


--

On 11 Jul 2006 07:43:17 -0700, Banty wrote:

In article .com, ncangelone
says...


This is another assine angle on the situation. The freaking alleged
pot, is on someone elses property. To suggest that child protective
agencies are gonna sieze someone;s kids because a neighbor has some
plant, that "might" be pot is beyond stupid.

No...its not asinine, especially when you have been through one of
DCF's witch hunts. 6 yrs ago my soccer playing son came to school with
a bruise on his face (him and another kid smacked heads in practice) -
we spent entire weekend with sheriff's at house and caseworkers, and
teachers and neighbors were interviewed, our pastor was tracked down, i
had to take him to a special clinic for a complete physical and
psychological assessment, just to be told in end, yeah, it looks like
sports injury.

Whyizzit I get this Paul Harvey What's The Rest of the Story feeling about
this....

Come clean - nasty divorce? Made an enemy of another parent? Injuries of
various stages of healing also noted? Said Other Kid didn't remember the
incident and doesn't have a bruise on his face? Not saying it's all your fault
(necessarily!), but...

Because, if your story is plausible, just about every single family will have
been repeatedly subjected to your little horror story, and you and I everyone
reading knows that's not the case.

Banty (who hates witch hunts about witch hunts...)


The only question that came to mind fo me is whether it was a racial
thing... We live in a country of unequal equality.

CF

Banty wrote:
Come clean - nasty divorce? Made an enemy of another parent? Injuries of
various stages of healing also noted? Said Other Kid didn't remember the
incident and doesn't have a bruise on his face? Not saying it's all your fault
(necessarily!), but...

Because, if your story is plausible, just about every single family will have
been repeatedly subjected to your little horror story, and you and I everyone
reading knows that's not the case.

Banty (who hates witch hunts about witch hunts...)



None of the above @sswipe. Clerk at school, who after this incident by
the way was fired, took it upon herself to report it and make up a
story. She was fired because it was the third time she did this to a
family in the same semester. And yeah, stuff like this happens to lots
of good parents. Oh and how'd we find out it was the clerk? because the
biotch bragged about it to the teachers. My objective here was to give
a different perspective to this parent who is obviously torn about what
is "the right thing" to do. Anything that would jeapordize my kids or
my protection therof, I would want all sides, opinions, what-ifs. And
that's what I've given to the parent here....what if someone thought
you were a bad parent because you didnt do something about your
neighbors growing pot.

In article .com, ncangelone
says...


Banty wrote:
Come clean - nasty divorce? Made an enemy of another parent? Injuries of
various stages of healing also noted? Said Other Kid didn't remember the
incident and doesn't have a bruise on his face? Not saying it's all your fault
(necessarily!), but...

Because, if your story is plausible, just about every single family will have
been repeatedly subjected to your little horror story, and you and I everyone
reading knows that's not the case.

Banty (who hates witch hunts about witch hunts...)



None of the above @sswipe.

Hmm. Lends some credence to the possibility that you majorly PO'ed someone. I
asked for the rest of the story. Take it easy.

Clerk at school, who after this incident by
the way was fired, took it upon herself to report it and make up a
story. She was fired because it was the third time she did this to a
family in the same semester. And yeah, stuff like this happens to lots
of good parents. Oh and how'd we find out it was the clerk? because the
biotch bragged about it to the teachers. My objective here was to give
a different perspective to this parent who is obviously torn about what
is "the right thing" to do. Anything that would jeapordize my kids or
my protection therof, I would want all sides, opinions, what-ifs. And
that's what I've given to the parent here....what if someone thought
you were a bad parent because you didnt do something about your
neighbors growing pot.


Well, I can call it a "different perspective" if you like. You seem to be new
to usenet (or posting from a new addy), but this idea floating around that CPS
is a nasty agency on hair-trigger alert to snatch kids from every family they
can is pretty ludicrous, given the meager resources and staff they have to do
real work. I'm here to say that this is rare enough not to be a major (or even
minor) consideration.

And, no, I have nothing to do with CPS.

Banty


--

ncangelone wrote:
Banty wrote:
Come clean - nasty divorce? Made an enemy of another parent? Injuries of
various stages of healing also noted? Said Other Kid didn't remember the
incident and doesn't have a bruise on his face? Not saying it's all your fault
(necessarily!), but...

Because, if your story is plausible, just about every single family will have
been repeatedly subjected to your little horror story, and you and I everyone
reading knows that's not the case.

Banty (who hates witch hunts about witch hunts...)



None of the above @sswipe. Clerk at school, who after this incident by
the way was fired, took it upon herself to report it and make up a
story. She was fired because it was the third time she did this to a
family in the same semester. And yeah, stuff like this happens to lots
of good parents. Oh and how'd we find out it was the clerk? because the
biotch bragged about it to the teachers. My objective here was to give
a different perspective to this parent who is obviously torn about what
is "the right thing" to do. Anything that would jeapordize my kids or
my protection therof, I would want all sides, opinions, what-ifs. And
that's what I've given to the parent here....what if someone thought
you were a bad parent because you didnt do something about your
neighbors growing pot.


A school employee apparently fabricated a story and your child had an
obvious bruise. A school reporting a child with suspicous injuries
happens all the time. So, I'm not surprised that child protective
services got involved.

Now, this has what again to do with something growing on someone elses
property that MIGHT be marijuana? If that's all it takes, wouldn't
all the parents living in drug infested neighborhoods have their
children removed on the notion that the parents should be calling in
drug reports of who's selling dope on the streets and doing something
to stop it? Don't see that happening do you?

"shinypenny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Now, I don't care at all what the neighbors want to grow, and I'm not
really all that uptight about marijuana use. Whatever an adult wants to
do in the privacy of their own home, and all that. My only concern is
that my DD's - ages 11 and 13 - also use this hammock frequently. The
13 year old is not an idiot and may have already identified the plants.
I remember what it was like being 13 years old. So I am concerned that
it is a little bit too easily available, should she decide she wants to
experiment.

If you are really worried that your children will harvest, dry, and smoke
the neighbors plants while you aren't paying attention you might try going
over and telling them, "I'm sorry, I'm really concerned my kids will
harvest, dry, and smoke your plants when I'm not looking. Could you
perhaps move them somewhere else?" Note the wording, it does not imply they
are doing anything illegal or wrong. I don't believe they would take
offense, though they may wonder about your parental supervision.

Alternately, you could discuss with your children how wrong it would be for
them to destroy neighbors' property, whether it be plants they'd like to
smoke or flowers they'd like to pick. In general, it might be easier to
keep your kids away from temptation than keeping temptation away from your
kids. For instance, ridding your child's high school of drug dealers might
be way beyond what you can personally accomplish, but teaching your kids to
stay away from drugs may be within your sphere of influence. For this
particular problem I would be more likely to start with my kids than start
with my neighbors.

As for the illegal aspect of growing plants, in the state of California it
gets very murky. On a state level growing enough for personal use might be
a misdemeanor, or even legal if they have a medicinal marijuana permit. But
somehow that does not stop federal agents from raiding medicinal marijuana
clinics.

In article , Cathy Kearns
says...


"shinypenny" wrote in message
roups.com...
Now, I don't care at all what the neighbors want to grow, and I'm not
really all that uptight about marijuana use. Whatever an adult wants to
do in the privacy of their own home, and all that. My only concern is
that my DD's - ages 11 and 13 - also use this hammock frequently. The
13 year old is not an idiot and may have already identified the plants.
I remember what it was like being 13 years old. So I am concerned that
it is a little bit too easily available, should she decide she wants to
experiment.

If you are really worried that your children will harvest, dry, and smoke
the neighbors plants while you aren't paying attention you might try going
over and telling them, "I'm sorry, I'm really concerned my kids will
harvest, dry, and smoke your plants when I'm not looking. Could you
perhaps move them somewhere else?" Note the wording, it does not imply they
are doing anything illegal or wrong. I don't believe they would take
offense, though they may wonder about your parental supervision.

Alternately, you could discuss with your children how wrong it would be for
them to destroy neighbors' property, whether it be plants they'd like to
smoke or flowers they'd like to pick. In general, it might be easier to
keep your kids away from temptation than keeping temptation away from your
kids. For instance, ridding your child's high school of drug dealers might
be way beyond what you can personally accomplish, but teaching your kids to
stay away from drugs may be within your sphere of influence. For this
particular problem I would be more likely to start with my kids than start
with my neighbors.


Sure, she can teach her kids. I think there are concerns other and above just
whether or not her girls may actually harvest and smoke the plants. To have
that kind of activity under the girls' noses normalizes the activity, whatever
teaching she may want to do. Sure, she should check the laws in her state (only
11 out of 50 have even tolerated pot for medicinal uses), but the neighbors are
either woefully ignorant of (IMO more likely by far) purposely disregarding the
marginal nature of their activity and are counting on neighbors' reticence in
order to pursue it. A passive stance on their mother's part doesn't exactly
reinforce a negative message, does it.

Banty


--

"Banty" wrote in message
...

Sure, she can teach her kids. I think there are concerns other and above
just
whether or not her girls may actually harvest and smoke the plants. To
have
that kind of activity under the girls' noses normalizes the activity,
whatever
teaching she may want to do. Sure, she should check the laws in her state
(only
11 out of 50 have even tolerated pot for medicinal uses), but the
neighbors are
either woefully ignorant of (IMO more likely by far) purposely
disregarding the
marginal nature of their activity and are counting on neighbors' reticence
in
order to pursue it. A passive stance on their mother's part doesn't
exactly
reinforce a negative message, does it.

If the neighbors are doing something distinctly illegal and immoral in the
OP's view, then the right thing to do is to contact the police. It sounds
like the OP is not convinced the pot growing is either illegal or immoral,
so she doesn't mind if they grow pot. She is concerned about her children
smoking pot. I can guarantee that regardless of how "good" the high school
her children eventually go to, pot will be much easier to get than by
stealing it from the neighbors.

I think your comment on the "marginal nature of their activity" is exactly
the problem. It's not black and white, but a dark shade of grey. If the
neighbors were running a meth lab she'd call the police. If they were
leaving beer in an outdoor deck fridge she'd remind her kids that stealing
anything is bad, and drinking alchohol at their age is bad, and stealing
alchohol from the neighbors and drinking it is really bad. So where on this
scale does growing possible pot plants fall?

On 5 Jul 2006 13:30:45 -0700, someone wrote:

What would you do in this situation:
cut
Now, I don't care at all what the neighbors want to grow, and I'm not
really all that uptight about marijuana use....

Given the above 2 statements together, you have answered your own Q.


do in the privacy of their own home, and all that. My only concern is
that my DD's - ages 11 and 13 - also use this hammock frequently...

Ahh, so the 2nd one of your above statements IS A LIE. Sorry, you
can't have it both ways. You DO care what they grow OUT IN THE YARD
(and NOT "in the privacy of their own home").

Either tell them you don't approve and get it where you can't see it.
Or just call the cops and have them busted since they are not friends
of yours.

I see it as, if your neighbors were gay, you wouldn't care what they
did in their bedroom (the privacy of their own house). But straight
or gay of they were doing it on the front lawn, no, you'd call the
cops.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

In article , Cathy Kearns says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...

Sure, she can teach her kids. I think there are concerns other and above
just
whether or not her girls may actually harvest and smoke the plants. To
have
that kind of activity under the girls' noses normalizes the activity,
whatever
teaching she may want to do. Sure, she should check the laws in her state
(only
11 out of 50 have even tolerated pot for medicinal uses), but the
neighbors are
either woefully ignorant of (IMO more likely by far) purposely
disregarding the
marginal nature of their activity and are counting on neighbors' reticence
in
order to pursue it. A passive stance on their mother's part doesn't
exactly
reinforce a negative message, does it.

If the neighbors are doing something distinctly illegal and immoral in the
OP's view, then the right thing to do is to contact the police. It sounds
like the OP is not convinced the pot growing is either illegal or immoral,
so she doesn't mind if they grow pot. She is concerned about her children
smoking pot. I can guarantee that regardless of how "good" the high school
her children eventually go to, pot will be much easier to get than by
stealing it from the neighbors.

I think your comment on the "marginal nature of their activity" is exactly
the problem. It's not black and white, but a dark shade of grey. If the
neighbors were running a meth lab she'd call the police. If they were
leaving beer in an outdoor deck fridge she'd remind her kids that stealing
anything is bad, and drinking alchohol at their age is bad, and stealing
alchohol from the neighbors and drinking it is really bad. So where on this
scale does growing possible pot plants fall?



I don't think that runing a meth lab vs. having the kids stealing beer from a
fridge on the deck is a continuum from which I'd try to place anything like this
at all - it'd have to be runing a meth lab in the basement vs. growing pot in
the basement, or running a meth lab out on the deck to having the beer in a
fridge on the deck, or the kids stealing meth from the lab vs. stealing from the
fridge to be a continuum - you're conflating three factors.

Furthermore, I think this thing about the kids actually *harvesting and using*
the pot is a red herring to begin with.

At any rate, where do I draw the lines on these things? Stealing of any sort is
illegal and to be taught against, of course (else why would a red herring
regarding actually harvesting the stuff be brought up? It's to distract us all
to say "hey, it's against any code to be stealing *anyway* so the MJ plants next
door isn't an issue!" Phooey!)

If and when (mostly *if*) our democratic society decides pot is OK, then I'll
think it OK for the neighbors to be growing pot. (And, no, I don't think it's a
human rights issue or anything like that where'd I'd overrule my whole fellow
citizenry).

As to the line regarding whether or not to be calling the cops, frankly I leave
that for egregious and impactful problems that don't have other solutions (and I
think your 'call the cops or leave it totally alone is a false dilemma). But I
don't have to foster and condone stuff either. I put the MJ growing in a grey
area where I woudln't call the cops unless I needed to, but I would expect the
neighbors have the decency not to put it under my nose. Having it in hte
backyard damn well risks that it be reported, they damn well know it, and my
talking about it to them should be greeted with the knowledge that I am *not* at
the moment turning them in.

Banty


--

This 7/4 several of my neighbors put on pretty spectacular
fireworks displays- possession of these is illegal here in NY State.
Should I have reported them? I think not, absent some immediate
hazard.
I feel that a petty puritanism has crept into our public life-
some of it has always been there. It is perfectly ok, I think, to
disapprove of something w/o necessarily rushing to report it. She
should certainly speak to her kids about drugs.

In article .com, Sev says...


This 7/4 several of my neighbors put on pretty spectacular
fireworks displays- possession of these is illegal here in NY State.
Should I have reported them? I think not, absent some immediate
hazard.
I feel that a petty puritanism has crept into our public life-
some of it has always been there. It is perfectly ok, I think, to
disapprove of something w/o necessarily rushing to report it. She
should certainly speak to her kids about drugs.


I haven't advocated rushing to report it. But, do you think it's "petty
puritanism" to ask folks not to have this going on in full view of the rest of
the neighborhood, putting all around them into a spot as to what to do?

I'm in NY State also. I'm not happy about fireworks in my neighborhood because
I know they're illegal, and my years as an EMT has given me a heck of a lot of
education as to why. Do you think I'm a petty puritan to be repulsed by what
happens when various assundry amateurs in various states of sobriety, and their
children, fool around with that stuff??

No, I don't report fireworks (although I do gasp answer questions honestly
like "don't you know sparklers are legal" (answer: NO)). But I *do* take my
family to the town fireworks on July 4 to get away from the neighborhood stuff.
I *don't* nod-nod-wink-wink "sure I'll pick some up from out of state on the way
back from our road trip". I say "you know those are illegal, don't you". But
at least that one I can get away from.

If you think this, or not wanting MJ legal, is just "petty puritanism", partake
of the democratic process to change the laws. If you find yourself unsuccessful
at that, get to understand your fellow citizens and their concerns.

Banty (a petty puritan)


--

"Banty" wrote in message
...
Furthermore, I think this thing about the kids actually *harvesting and
using*
the pot is a red herring to begin with.

I only brought that up because the original poster stated that was her only
concern.
"So I am concerned that it is a little bit too easily available, should she
decide she wants to experiment."

At any rate, where do I draw the lines on these things? Stealing of any
sort is
illegal and to be taught against, of course (else why would a red herring
regarding actually harvesting the stuff be brought up? It's to distract
us all
to say "hey, it's against any code to be stealing *anyway* so the MJ
plants next
door isn't an issue!" Phooey!)

If and when (mostly *if*) our democratic society decides pot is OK, then
I'll
think it OK for the neighbors to be growing pot. (And, no, I don't think
it's a
human rights issue or anything like that where'd I'd overrule my whole
fellow
citizenry).

In some areas of the USA the democratic society, via state initiatives, has
decided pot is OK for medicinal purposes. I don't know if the OP is in one
of those areas. Nor do I (or the OP) know if this older couple falls under
the medicinal marijuana umbrella. Certainly, if I saw pot in a neighbor's
yard in this area that would be the first thing that popped into my mind.

As to the line regarding whether or not to be calling the cops, frankly I
leave
that for egregious and impactful problems that don't have other solutions
(and I
think your 'call the cops or leave it totally alone is a false dilemma).
But I
don't have to foster and condone stuff either. I put the MJ growing in a
grey
area where I woudln't call the cops unless I needed to, but I would expect
the
neighbors have the decency not to put it under my nose. Having it in hte
backyard damn well risks that it be reported, they damn well know it, and
my
talking about it to them should be greeted with the knowledge that I am
*not* at
the moment turning them in.

If, reading between the lines the OP is annoyed that possible pot plants are
visible from her yard because it might be illegal then I agree, it would be
good to air that to the neighbors. I would also agree if you should find
yourself in this situation you should talk to the neighbors.

I haven't advocated rushing to report it. But, do you think it's "petty
puritanism" to ask folks not to have this going on in full view of the rest of
the neighborhood, putting all around them into a spot as to what to do?

She does say it's at the back of their property, but near her
property line. I'm inclined to agree that if they couldn't be so good
as to obey the law, they could have at least been more careful in their
placement of the stuff. That's them. Should she report it? I still
think not; undoubtedly this not unrelated to my view of the seriousness
of the offense/ harmfulness or lack thereof for most adults of
marijuana. I don't use it, though admittedly did years ago; wouldn't
want my kids using it either.

I'm in NY State also. I'm not happy about fireworks in my neighborhood because
I know they're illegal, and my years as an EMT has given me a heck of a lot of
education as to why. Do you think I'm a petty puritan to be repulsed by what
happens when various assundry amateurs in various states of sobriety, and their
children, fool around with that stuff??

I don't buy them either; agreeing with you about their dangers in the
hands of the young/ inexperienced/ drunk. My neighbors do this every
year, and as far as I can tell safely. I wouldn't. But do I report
them, or should I? I still think no. Libertarian view of life, once
known as" live and let live." Of course there are limits, and we will
all draw the line differently. I do not think that we are or should
all be full time police informers, or that it automatically follows
that because an activity is illegal, we are duty bound to report it, or
even confront the lawbreaker.

In article .com, Sev says...



I haven't advocated rushing to report it. But, do you think it's "petty
puritanism" to ask folks not to have this going on in full view of the rest of
the neighborhood, putting all around them into a spot as to what to do?

She does say it's at the back of their property, but near her
property line. I'm inclined to agree that if they couldn't be so good
as to obey the law, they could have at least been more careful in their
placement of the stuff. That's them. Should she report it? I still
think not; undoubtedly this not unrelated to my view of the seriousness
of the offense/ harmfulness or lack thereof for most adults of
marijuana. I don't use it, though admittedly did years ago; wouldn't
want my kids using it either.

I'm in NY State also. I'm not happy about fireworks in my neighborhood because
I know they're illegal, and my years as an EMT has given me a heck of a lot of
education as to why. Do you think I'm a petty puritan to be repulsed by what
happens when various assundry amateurs in various states of sobriety, and their
children, fool around with that stuff??

I don't buy them either; agreeing with you about their dangers in the
hands of the young/ inexperienced/ drunk. My neighbors do this every
year, and as far as I can tell safely. I wouldn't. But do I report
them, or should I? I still think no. Libertarian view of life, once
known as" live and let live." Of course there are limits, and we will
all draw the line differently. I do not think that we are or should
all be full time police informers, or that it automatically follows
that because an activity is illegal, we are duty bound to report it, or
even confront the lawbreaker.


Oh, I basically agree. But from more of a "pick your battles" point of view
than one that people have some kind of right to pick and choose laws.

But I don't go along with the idea that, to even *say something* to a
lawbreaking neighbor, is to be somehow wrong or 'uptight' or something. THe
burden is on the lawbreaker to cool it somehow, not on the whole rest of the
neighborhood to enable it.

Banty


--

In article , Cathy Kearns
says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
Furthermore, I think this thing about the kids actually *harvesting and
using*
the pot is a red herring to begin with.

I only brought that up because the original poster stated that was her only
concern.
"So I am concerned that it is a little bit too easily available, should she
decide she wants to experiment."

OK, you're right on the concern that her daughters actually partake. I still
don't think that stealing is wrong covers the concern.


At any rate, where do I draw the lines on these things? Stealing of any
sort is
illegal and to be taught against, of course (else why would a red herring
regarding actually harvesting the stuff be brought up? It's to distract
us all
to say "hey, it's against any code to be stealing *anyway* so the MJ
plants next
door isn't an issue!" Phooey!)

If and when (mostly *if*) our democratic society decides pot is OK, then
I'll
think it OK for the neighbors to be growing pot. (And, no, I don't think
it's a
human rights issue or anything like that where'd I'd overrule my whole
fellow
citizenry).

In some areas of the USA the democratic society, via state initiatives, has
decided pot is OK for medicinal purposes. I don't know if the OP is in one
of those areas. Nor do I (or the OP) know if this older couple falls under
the medicinal marijuana umbrella. Certainly, if I saw pot in a neighbor's
yard in this area that would be the first thing that popped into my mind.


She hasn't told us that's the case. Being as a *minority* of states have done
that, I'd think she would have told us.

As to the line regarding whether or not to be calling the cops, frankly I
leave
that for egregious and impactful problems that don't have other solutions
(and I
think your 'call the cops or leave it totally alone is a false dilemma).
But I
don't have to foster and condone stuff either. I put the MJ growing in a
grey
area where I woudln't call the cops unless I needed to, but I would expect
the
neighbors have the decency not to put it under my nose. Having it in hte
backyard damn well risks that it be reported, they damn well know it, and
my
talking about it to them should be greeted with the knowledge that I am
*not* at
the moment turning them in.

If, reading between the lines the OP is annoyed that possible pot plants are
visible from her yard because it might be illegal then I agree, it would be
good to air that to the neighbors. I would also agree if you should find
yourself in this situation you should talk to the neighbors.



Thanks.

Banty


--