I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

-Ariel

"Ariel" wrote in message
...
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually) every
joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to 2000.
Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any leak
at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is not a
fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

-Ariel
What gas appliances do you have in the house?

Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.
The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.
I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.
My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?
And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

Why worry about finding it yourself? Call the gas company, and tell 'em "my
gas appliances are all off, but the meter is still running". That should get
some folks who know what they're doing out in a jiffy -- the gas company just
hates the publicity when a house blows up.

Pilbs wrote:
"Ariel" wrote in message
...

I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually) every
joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to 2000.
Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any leak
at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is not a
fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

-Ariel

What gas appliances do you have in the house?

I have a water heater, stove (range), and furnace, but the valves to all
of them were off, plus the valves internal to the units were off as well
(just in case) when I tested this.

-Ariel

In article ,
Ariel writes:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

Have you tried closing all the appliance isolator valves to see
if one of them stops the leak?

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.

A leak inside a room sealed appliance would not generate a gas
smell inside the house, but outside at the flue terminal.
Likewise, if the meter is outside, check for leaks in the
pipework before it enters the house.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

This is very unlikely to generate an explosive mixture. It would
have to be leaking into a small rather well sealed cavity in the
building structure at your leak rate (assuming meter is accurate
at such a low flow rate) to form an explosive gas/air mixture.

Have you tried gas leak detector spray, e.g. a can of LD-90 which
should be relatively cheap? This will generate a small clump of
white foam at a leak after some minutes which might be easier to
see than smell.

You could call Transco. If they can find and fix the leak in 30
minutes, I think it's free, but otherwise they'll disconnect you
after verifying it's not their meter or couplings at fault.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article , Andy Hill
writes
Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.
The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.
I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.
My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?
And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

Why worry about finding it yourself? Call the gas company, and tell 'em "my
gas appliances are all off, but the meter is still running". That should get
some folks who know what they're doing out in a jiffy -- the gas company just
hates the publicity when a house blows up.

A friend of mine did that. They came round and agreed he had a leak and
promptly cut him off. He had to get a corgi registered person to find
the leak and fix it. The leak was in a concrete floor. The acid in the
concrete had attacked the copper pipe.
--
Zaax
http://www.ukgatsos.com

"Andy Hill" wrote in message
...
Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.
The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.
I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.
My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?
And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

Why worry about finding it yourself? Call the gas company, and tell 'em
"my
gas appliances are all off, but the meter is still running". That should
get
some folks who know what they're doing out in a jiffy -- the gas company
just
hates the publicity when a house blows up.


Be careful, when they prove it is not the meter or connecting pipes, and you
are still leaking, they will cut you off.

Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

Is any part of the pipe run from the meter to house buried?
Leaks are more common there.

In the US, a call to the gas utility will produce a tech
armed with the latest in "sniffer' equipment in a
surprisingly short time. g

http://www.omniinstruments.co.uk/test/testo.html
Testo 316-1

A bit pricey for one-off job.

Jim

On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:59:31 -0400, Ariel wrote:

I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

Any pilot lights? Though I'd expect one to use more gas than 1.7
cuft/day.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

zaax wrote:
In article , Andy Hill
writes
Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.
The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.
I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.
My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?
And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

Why worry about finding it yourself? Call the gas company, and tell 'em "my
gas appliances are all off, but the meter is still running". That should get
some folks who know what they're doing out in a jiffy -- the gas company just
hates the publicity when a house blows up.

A friend of mine did that. They came round and agreed he had a leak and
promptly cut him off. He had to get a corgi registered person to find
the leak and fix it. The leak was in a concrete floor. The acid in the
concrete had attacked the copper pipe.

Damn, y'all got some hard-assed utility companies over on the east side of the
pond. Both time I had leaks, the gas company had one of their guys do a
sniffer check around the house until the leak was found. Had to shut down the
valve to the appliance (well, duh!), but they didn't red-tag the whole house.

"Ariel" wrote in message
...
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

-Ariel

Can you get to look at the supply pipes? If you have a suspended wooden
floor they'll
likely be routed under that. Get down there with a light and a can of
'snoop' ( or I suppose
squeezy and water, but remember to wipe it off when you've finshed ), and
look for leaks at all the joints you came across.

Andy

"Ariel" wrote in message
...
Pilbs wrote:
"Ariel" wrote in message
...

I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every
joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000.
Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak
at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is not a
fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

-Ariel

What gas appliances do you have in the house?

I have a water heater, stove (range), and furnace, but the valves to all
of them were off, plus the valves internal to the units were off as well
(just in case) when I tested this.

-Ariel

===============
Just a remote possibility.................

Have you got a dripping hot tap somewhere on the water heater circuit? It's
possible that the water diaphragm has become weakened and is allowing the
gas valve to operate at a lower pressure than it should. I don't even know
if this is possible but it's worth a quick check around even though you said
the valves were turned off, just in case you missed something.

Cic.

In article ,
Andy Hill writes:
zaax wrote:
A friend of mine did that. They came round and agreed he had a leak and
promptly cut him off. He had to get a corgi registered person to find
the leak and fix it. The leak was in a concrete floor. The acid in the
concrete had attacked the copper pipe.

Damn, y'all got some hard-assed utility companies over on the east side of the
pond. Both time I had leaks, the gas company had one of their guys do a
sniffer check around the house until the leak was found. Had to shut down the
valve to the appliance (well, duh!), but they didn't red-tag the whole house.

In the UK, the gas transporter (Transco) will try and find the
leak and disconnect the affected appliance. They will only
disconnect the whole house if they can't find the leak, or
can't fix it by disconnecting an appliance. They are not
responsible for fixing the leak (unless it's in their meter
or other associated supply pipework) -- their service is free
and is only to make the installation safe. It seems that as a
free goodwill guesture, they will spend up to 30 minutes
fixing a leak in your pipework if that's all that's required
to solve the problem. Otherwise, you will have to employ a
gas fitter to repair the leak and reconnect.

--
Andrew Gabriel

zaax wrote:

A friend of mine did that. They came round and agreed he had a leak and
promptly cut him off. He had to get a corgi registered person to find
the leak and fix it. The leak was in a concrete floor. The acid in the
concrete had attacked the copper pipe.

Same happened to me a few years ago, neighbours smelt gas, called out
BG and no leak found in their house. I was away for a few days luckily
they could get access to a meter detected a drop and cut me off. If
they hadn't the first thing I might have done was walk into the house
and automatically turn on the lights.....BOOM

BG came round and found no leak so they reconnected me. Then a few
weeks later brief whiffs were smelt but yet again BG found nothing.
The fault was eventually traced to a nail on a carpet gripper rod that
had just pierced a gas pipe running under the floor causing the leak
to come and go with temperature change. When the vinyl floor tiles
were lifted the concrete was saturated with gas.

In the days before sds drills I had to chisel by hand the rock hard
concrete out from round the pipe - it took about 5 hours.

--

Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.
The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

Meters aren't for measuring gas leaks. Get your pipework and appliances
pressure tested with a manometer and that will tell you if you have a leak.

Does your boiler have a pilot light?

Owain

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

A leak inside a room sealed appliance would not generate a gas
smell inside the house, but outside at the flue terminal.

Could you explain for the thickies just how this is possible?


--

On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:59:31 -0400, Ariel wrote:

I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

If you are competent to perform the _correct_ procedure to detect for a
gas leak as outlined in the FAQ, then do so. Otherwise call Trancso 0800
111 999. They will have someone out promptly and they will perfrom the
test for you.

If you establish there is a leak then try with some/all of the appliances
turned off on their service isolators. If the leak is in the pipework it
_must_ be dealt with.

Also note that one turn of the meter dial is one cubic ft. The 0.071
refers to the internal workings of the meter which can be ignored for the
purpose of this discussion.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 24 May 2005 22:54:19 +0100, Fergie wrote:

A leak inside a room sealed appliance would not generate a gas
smell inside the house, but outside at the flue terminal.

Could you explain for the thickies just how this is possible?

A "room sealed appliance" is just that, it is sealed from the room.
Nothing on the inside can get into the room, air comes in and exhaust
goes out through the balanced flue. SO the only place you'd smell a
gas leak in the appliance is outside at the flue.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:07:40 GMT, Andy Hill wrote:

Ariel wrote:
I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.
The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.
I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.
My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?
And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

Why worry about finding it yourself? Call the gas company, and tell 'em "my
gas appliances are all off, but the meter is still running". That should get
some folks who know what they're doing out in a jiffy -- the gas company just
hates the publicity when a house blows up.
Its not actually the gas companies fault if his house blows up unless
they are negligent.. The OP is already in breach of the Gas safety
installtion and use regs by using an installation which he believes or
suspects is dangerous. A simple call to 0800111999 would confirm
whether or not leakage is occuring and that visit would cost him
nothing. For all he knows the leakage might be on the meter
installation so again cost= nothing. But no,for the sake of spending a
few quid,he is happy to risk the welfare of himself,his family and his
neihbours. Meanwhile he probaly thinks nothing of spending big bucks
on cars,electronic goods and foreign holidays. It really is beyond
belief.

joe
Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUMECONFORMOBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/

On 24 May 2005 21:14:36 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:



In the UK, the gas transporter (Transco) will try and find the
leak and disconnect the affected appliance. They will only
disconnect the whole house if they can't find the leak, or
can't fix it by disconnecting an appliance. They are not
responsible for fixing the leak (unless it's in their meter
or other associated supply pipework) -- their service is free
and is only to make the installation safe. It seems that as a
free goodwill guesture, they will spend up to 30 minutes
fixing a leak in your pipework if that's all that's required
to solve the problem. Otherwise, you will have to employ a
gas fitter to repair the leak and reconnect.
Indeed Andrew,what could be fairer? A man comes to your house and
gives you half and hours worth of his expertise free of charge AND
maybe preserves the safety and property of the customer and his
neighbours. Who else comes round and works for free?
Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUMECONFORMOBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/

On Tue, 24 May 2005 22:50:00 +0100, Fergie
wrote:

zaax wrote:

A friend of mine did that. They came round and agreed he had a leak and
promptly cut him off. He had to get a corgi registered person to find
the leak and fix it. The leak was in a concrete floor. The acid in the
concrete had attacked the copper pipe.

Same happened to me a few years ago, neighbours smelt gas, called out
BG and no leak found in their house. I was away for a few days luckily
they could get access to a meter detected a drop and cut me off. If
they hadn't the first thing I might have done was walk into the house
and automatically turn on the lights.....BOOM

As a cautionary tale,a few weeks ago on Merseyside, a householder was
away on holiday . A family member was looking after the house. One day
he called round to check the mail and stuff,opens door,smells
gas,turns light on,boom,house demolished,hes off to hospital,dies a
few days later-the end.
Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUMECONFORMOBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/

On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:46:35 GMT, "PhilÅ"
wrote:



Be careful, when they prove it is not the meter or connecting pipes, and you
are still leaking, they will cut you off.


No no no,that should read-be careful-your life is worth more than the
comparetively small amount it will take to do repairs to your leaky
gas pipes then you can sleep soundly safe in the knowledge that you
did the right thing and didnt engage in mindless penny pinching.
Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUMECONFORMOBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2005 22:54:19 +0100, Fergie wrote:

A leak inside a room sealed appliance would not generate a gas
smell inside the house, but outside at the flue terminal.

Could you explain for the thickies just how this is possible?

A "room sealed appliance" is just that, it is sealed from the room.
Nothing on the inside can get into the room, air comes in and exhaust
goes out through the balanced flue. SO the only place you'd smell a
gas leak in the appliance is outside at the flue.

Hmm, so room sealed appliance is a different concept to room sealed
flue then?


--

On Wed, 25 May 2005 01:21:43 +0100, Fergie
wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2005 22:54:19 +0100, Fergie wrote:

A leak inside a room sealed appliance would not generate a gas
smell inside the house, but outside at the flue terminal.

Could you explain for the thickies just how this is possible?

A "room sealed appliance" is just that, it is sealed from the room.
Nothing on the inside can get into the room, air comes in and exhaust
goes out through the balanced flue. SO the only place you'd smell a
gas leak in the appliance is outside at the flue.

Hmm, so room sealed appliance is a different concept to room sealed
flue then?


No. The flue is part of the means to make a room sealed appliance,
well, room sealed. It consists either of some concentric or side by
side system of pipes or ducts which are used to feed in the combustion
air as well as to feed out the combustion products.

On older RS boilers, this is usually done by natural draught, whereas
newer ones normally have a fan and can consequently have a smaller
flue.

The other aspect is that the case of the boiler is sealed inside the
house so that no air can enter or anything escape. Better designs
are arranged, when the fan is running, to have slightly negative
pressure relative to atmosphere in the case so that if there is a
slightly imperfect case seal, there will be a net inflow of air rather
than possible escape of fumes.

Condensing boilers need a means on the case of the boiler to provide
an outlet for the condensate. This is achieved by having a small
water trap.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

tarquinlinbin wrote:
On 24 May 2005 21:14:36 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:



In the UK, the gas transporter (Transco) will try and find the
leak and disconnect the affected appliance. They will only
disconnect the whole house if they can't find the leak, or
can't fix it by disconnecting an appliance. They are not
responsible for fixing the leak (unless it's in their meter
or other associated supply pipework) -- their service is free
and is only to make the installation safe. It seems that as a
free goodwill guesture, they will spend up to 30 minutes
fixing a leak in your pipework if that's all that's required
to solve the problem. Otherwise, you will have to employ a
gas fitter to repair the leak and reconnect.

Indeed Andrew,what could be fairer? A man comes to your house and
gives you half and hours worth of his expertise free of charge AND
maybe preserves the safety and property of the customer and his
neighbours. Who else comes round and works for free?

Although this is the same Transco which was charged with culpable
homicide after failing to maintain their gas main which was "extensively
corroded" which then leaked, causing a gas leak into the foundations of
a house, blowing it up in 1999, killing a whole family of 4.
"quantities of gas escaped from the main, entered the foundations of the
house and formed a gas cloud which ignited and exploded."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/574946.stm

"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
...
On 24 May 2005 21:14:36 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:



In the UK, the gas transporter (Transco) will try and find the
leak and disconnect the affected appliance. They will only
disconnect the whole house if they can't find the leak, or
can't fix it by disconnecting an appliance. They are not
responsible for fixing the leak (unless it's in their meter
or other associated supply pipework) -- their service is free
and is only to make the installation safe. It seems that as a
free goodwill guesture, they will spend up to 30 minutes
fixing a leak in your pipework if that's all that's required
to solve the problem. Otherwise, you will have to employ a
gas fitter to repair the leak and reconnect.
Indeed Andrew,what could be fairer? A man comes to your house and
gives you half and hours worth of his expertise free of charge AND
maybe preserves the safety and property of the customer and his
neighbours. Who else comes round and works for free?
Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email


You are making an assumption here that the guy who comes round has a
sufficient degree of nous and interest to actually spend a half hour
looking. OK not all Transco guys can be tarred with the same brush (most
can't) but I and many other gas installers have been called to simple jobs
which even the slightest amount of effort would have solved a problem as
suggested. A couple which come immediately to mind are calls after a Transco
shut off. 1 required a gas inlet isolating valve on an Ideal E type
regreasing then a test - the guy had even told the householder where the
problem was! The next was a smell of gas from a cooker where one of the
rings had not been turned off fully before the householder went away for a
weeks holiday. Next door smelt gas and called Transco and the landlord who
gave access. Result a week later I get a call to reinstate the gas service -
again the actual problem had been identified and the control properly closed
but still put a disc in the meter service valve. Soundness of the system
pipework was 100% in both cases.
As I got paid call out for both jobs I wasn't bothered but it does beg the
question what "service" was actually given in these cases.
As to your secondary point about a guy giving his time for free - "he" is
paid by Transco as part of the conditions for them to be the licenced
transporters of gas. The cost of this service is included in their charges
down the line so ultimately the consumer does pay for it even if only a
share.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:59:31 -0400, Ariel wrote:

I have a very slow gas leak in my house that I simply can't find.

The gas is leaking at a rate of 1.7 cubic feet per day (0.071 cubic feet
per hour) as measured by the meter.

I don't smell gas anywhere, and I have looked at (sniffed actually)
every joint I could reach, and nothing.

My question is how sensitive of a detector would I need in order to find
this? I have seen detectors with ppm sensitivity ranging from 50 to
2000. Obviously price goes accordingly, how sensitive of a detector do I
need?

And realistically speaking, how bad of a leak is it? I know that any
leak at all sounds scary, but a leak so slow that you can't smell it is
not a fire hazard as far as I know, but it does waste gas.

Could there be something in the house with a pilot light that's
burning gas?

If you do smell gas, squirt fairy liquid on the joints in any suspect
pipework. It will bubble with even the slightest of leaks.

sponix

On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:51:04 +0100, David Hearn
wrote:



Although this is the same Transco which was charged with culpable
homicide after failing to maintain their gas main which was "extensively
corroded" which then leaked, causing a gas leak into the foundations of
a house, blowing it up in 1999, killing a whole family of 4.
"quantities of gas escaped from the main, entered the foundations of the
house and formed a gas cloud which ignited and exploded."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/574946.stm


Indeed they have been charged though NGT deny the charge and will
defend it.

Trying to maintain a nuetral stance, it would be an impossibilty to
survey and maintain every single inch of the gas distribution system
so that it doesnt leak. It is humanly and physically impossible. The
distribution network for gas,just like water and electric,leaks in
various places. Thats why there is an odourant added to the gas.
Hopefully people smell the leaks and then they get attention.Often
times people will say hey i smelled gas there a few days ago (but they
didnt report it). I think this scenario was played out at Larkhall,the
case you highlight.

Moving to another issue,although no one will admit it,safety has a
price. In the good old days of British Gas doing everything,money was
practically no object and maintenanace was of the highest standard. We
now have a privatised industry open to market forces. Ofgem,the
industry regulator,continually works to drive down costs,something has
to give. NGT would have loved to replce miles of cast iron mains in
years gone buy byt Ofgem,would not allow them to spend the money,hence
they continued to deteriorate,they leaked,people got injured,their
homes wrecked and even died. Since a series of high profile explosions
and deaths such as Larkhall and others, Ofgem have crapped
themselves,realised that someone would eventually suss out that their
cost custting was to blame,and have taken the brakes off
spending,allowing Transco to launch a massive national gas mains
replacement program. Of course Ofgem is claiming it is their
initiative to improve safety,they safety they previously threatened.

So then,things are not always as they seem. There are other powers at
work....

Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUMECONFORMOBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/

On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:58:16 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:


As I got paid call out for both jobs I wasn't bothered but it does beg the
question what "service" was actually given in these cases.
As to your secondary point about a guy giving his time for free - "he" is
paid by Transco as part of the conditions for them to be the licenced
transporters of gas. The cost of this service is included in their charges
down the line so ultimately the consumer does pay for it even if only a
share.

I do sympathise,but again i have to remind you of market forces and
the new competitive privatised gas industry. Under the new current
"meter separation" arrangments,Transco is now solely a PGT (public gas
transporter) and ESP (Emergency service provider). Transco
responsibility until recently was up to the meter outlet. Under meter
separation,responisbility ends at the main tap outlet !. Any work on
leaking or defective meters,flexes,regulators etc is covered under a
PEMs (Post emergency metering) contract. I.E your gas shipper must
have a Pems contract in place with NGT otherwise any defects on the
meter and inlet will not be dealt with by NGT.

NGT mans core responsibilty is to make safe only. He may well find the
leak during the course of his enquiries but is under no obligation to
fix it unless it is on NGT network or it is in the meter/inlet and
there is a PEMs contract in place. NGT is a commercial operation. If
NGT man messes around fixing things that he is not obliged to fix,his
productivity and therefore the profitability of NGT is affected and
then Ofgem get upset.

CORGI have recently issued guidance which discourages NGT man from
getting involved with appliances as,although they accept
competence,they state that NGT mans core duety is as an ESP and he
must make safe only.
Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

Be a good Global citizen-CONSUMECONFORMOBEY

Circumcision- A crime and an abuse.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/