Hi all,

I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage. I
like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty,
all taking up valuable space. One of the candidates for selling-off is a
4 channel Philips job (plain analogue). I can't remember ever having had
a need for examining 4 signals at once, but thought I'd better check with
the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing
else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon
as I no longer have it around.
So... get rid or hang on?

Only 13 ? Hell that ain't enough to scare a half a coulomb.

Only thing more than dual trace we got around here is the Tek 7000 series. Even on the 7603, the screen is barely big enough to actually measure anything with more than two traces. The 7834, it is even harder. But you don't use four traces to measure amplitude, it is for other things. Right now I got one of those other things but all that is on premises is dual trace.


We are in the prcess of scrutinizng a newly acquired HP 339A distortion analyser. At the moment there is a dual trace on the generator output and the secndary generator output. And then we wanted to see the "monitor" output of the HP just for kicks. So I had to break out another scope for that. Three traces required.

But this is THE FIRST TIME in my life I have ever had to do it.

When you go beyond two traces, you usually are looking at logic levels. Many scopes only have two full blown channels but add another couple that do not have the gain or the full blown attenuator and all that. They are more for looking at logic levels and so forth, not complex signal analysis. Well it is, but not analog signal analysis.

In such scopes it is important to be able to force the chopped mode at higher sweep speeds. Soetimes timing is everything and why else would you wwant to quad trace anything but to see the timing between pulses or whatever ? These scopes that autoatically make the choice for you, like it is chopped up to a certain sec/div and then switches to alternate **** me off. I would rather have a little bit of anomoly on the screen than to not be able to see the absolute timing between two pulses or signals or whatever.

But they do that because of a not so swell design. The chopper oscillator, though the speed neeeds to be controlled, but NOT be phase locked to anytihng, especially the incooing signal. But it does happen because it feeds through the power supply, ground or even the air. Bett design can prevent this, but that takes effort, and MONEY. More capcitors and decoupling resistors.. More careful attention to the ground paths. It gets difficult and that is why cheaper scopes just don't let you chop at the higher sweep rates.

In other words, Elenco, Hotachi, whoever, they are saying "If you want a ****ing Tektronix, buy a Tektronix". However, some Tektronix models might do it as well, I can't say because to do so I would have to be familiar with EVERY model they ever made, and the only guy who ever came close was Jim Yanik (NRA member). He used to post here and worked for Tektronix for about 350 years. This guy, you post like "I have a 7613 and it is... ... ..." describe the problem and he would come back with something like "Likely R456, but it could be a shorted C421 and that is a bitch to get to".

So, what is the model number, how much do you want for it and where the hell are you geographically ? I know someone who might be interested if it is a good deal.

That is if you can get by with only 12 scopes.

On 8/15/2015 9:25 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage. I
like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty,
all taking up valuable space. One of the candidates for selling-off is a
4 channel Philips job (plain analogue). I can't remember ever having had
a need for examining 4 signals at once, but thought I'd better check with
the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing
else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon
as I no longer have it around.
So... get rid or hang on?


Channels 3 and 4 are good for when you've blown up 1 and 2.

(I have a 3-channel HP scope that I bought off eBay.)

Lots of times multiple channels are useful in looking at logic or serial
buses such as SPI (clock, data, chip select, DAC output).

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:25:15 +0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage.

I just counted my collection at 15 (including those that are not
currently functional). I win.

I like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty,
all taking up valuable space.

Yeah, I know the feeling. This is from 2011. Only one scope has
moved since the photo was taken:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/scopes-to-be-fixed.jpg

One of the candidates for selling-off is a
4 channel Philips job (plain analogue). I can't remember ever having had
a need for examining 4 signals at once, but thought I'd better check with
the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing
else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon
as I no longer have it around.

I've used a 4 channel scope as a makeshift digital logic analyzer.
Somewhat useful for catching glitches. The only time I really needed
4 channels was when I was working on a 3 channel TDOA (time difference
of arrival) radio direction finder. I displayed the various delays on
each channel, with the 4th used for probing the circuitry.

So... get rid or hang on?

What model? What condition? Duz it all work?

(Scraped from eBay listings):
http://www.theoscilloscopeshop.com/philips-oscilloscopes.html
Also check the ebay sold items for your unspecified model scope.

Unless it's something valuable or useful, I suggest that you sell it.
I can't even give away my old analog scopes. The few I've given away
to starving students are usually returned after a few weeks with
comments like "too big" or "not enough features". Everyone seems to
want a (Rigol) DSO after they've played with one. For myself, I use
an oscilloscope program on my PC and an app on my tablet more often
than my various bench oscilloscopes.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:53:50 -0700, jurb6006 wrote:

When you go beyond two traces, you usually are looking at logic levels.
Many scopes only have two full blown channels but add another couple
that do not have the gain or the full blown attenuator and all that.
They are more for looking at logic levels and so forth, not complex
signal analysis. Well it is, but not analog signal analysis.

Well, I had the case off this one a while back and all four channels
appear 'fully-featured' in that respect so far as I can see.

In other words, Elenco, Hotachi, whoever, they are saying "If you want a
****ing Tektronix, buy a Tektronix". However, some Tektronix models
might do it as well, I can't say because to do so I would have to be
familiar with EVERY model they ever made, and the only guy who ever came
close was Jim Yanik (NRA member). He used to post here and worked for
Tektronix for about 350 years. This guy, you post like "I have a 7613
and it is... ... ..." describe the problem and he would come back with
something like "Likely R456, but it could be a shorted C421 and that is
a bitch to get to".

I remember Jim from s.e.d I think it was. I hope he's still alive and
kicking. A very useful fellow to have access to indeed.

So, what is the model number, how much do you want for it and where the
hell are you geographically ? I know someone who might be interested if
it is a good deal.

It's the PM3264 and I'm in the UK. I'd like to avoid packaging and
international shipping if poss, so will try to off-load it locally before
seeking an overseas buyer. I don't think these old analogues fetch much
these days; 150 quid tops I would guess. Dunno what that is in your $$$$.

That is if you can get by with only 12 scopes.

I want to get down to 3 *max* eventually, not counting the 2 rather
exotic analogue storage scopes I have which I want to be buried with. No
way am I selling those!

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:53:50 -0700, jurb6006 wrote:

When you go beyond two traces, you usually are looking at logic levels.
Many scopes only have two full blown channels but add another couple
that do not have the gain or the full blown attenuator and all that.
They are more for looking at logic levels and so forth, not complex
signal analysis. Well it is, but not analog signal analysis.

Well, I had the case off this one a while back and all four channels
appear 'fully-featured' in that respect so far as I can see.

In other words, Elenco, Hotachi, whoever, they are saying "If you want a
****ing Tektronix, buy a Tektronix". However, some Tektronix models
might do it as well, I can't say because to do so I would have to be
familiar with EVERY model they ever made, and the only guy who ever came
close was Jim Yanik (NRA member). He used to post here and worked for
Tektronix for about 350 years. This guy, you post like "I have a 7613
and it is... ... ..." describe the problem and he would come back with
something like "Likely R456, but it could be a shorted C421 and that is
a bitch to get to".

I remember Jim from s.e.d I think it was. I hope he's still alive and
kicking. A very useful fellow to have access to indeed.

So, what is the model number, how much do you want for it and where the
hell are you geographically ? I know someone who might be interested if
it is a good deal.

It's the PM3264 and I'm in the UK. I'd like to avoid packaging and
international shipping if poss, so will try to off-load it locally before
seeking an overseas buyer. I don't think these old analogues fetch much
these days; 150 quid tops I would guess. Dunno what that is in your $$$$.

That is if you can get by with only 12 scopes.

I want to get down to 3 *max* eventually, not counting the 2 rather
exotic analogue storage scopes I have which I want to be buried with. No
way am I selling those!



My most-used 'scope is a Tektronix 2246 4-channel.

Channels 1 and 2 are semi-permanently devoted to power amp measurements and
the 8-ohm loads stay there.
I will often use channels 3 and 4, since the vertical sensitivity is limited
to .1v or .5v switchable, to monitor the amp input.

For troubleshooting at the circuit level I generally use a Tek 465 on the
same bench.


Mark Z.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:56:53 -0500, Mark Zacharias wrote:

For troubleshooting at the circuit level I generally use a Tek 465 on
the same bench.

I like the old Tek scopes, too. I have the 465 and a 475, one of which
will have to go. Logic says keep the 475, but one channel has gone low-
gain for some reason. If I can fix it I'll sell the 465 as it has a lower
bandwidth.
My favourite vintage Tek scope of all is my 466 analogue storage which is
in need of some serious troubleshooting. I'm going to be dealing with
getting that up and running early next year if all goes well.

"I remember Jim from s.e.d I think it was. I hope he's still alive and
kicking. A very useful fellow to have access to indeed. "

A selfish attitude but I concur. As a person I think I would have gotten along with him. Signing posts "NRA member" is a good one. I know he is/was not a bleeding heart hoplophobic mamby pamby who thought the world is just alright and there are no crininals n ****. These mother****ers who use every instance of an asshole going off and shooting people to further an agenda of disarming the public turn my ****ing stomach.

The NRA is not exactly perfect, they have not been quite right lately. The NRA I remember touted safety courses, shooting training and stuff like that.. They also sold insurance, which some hoplophobes want to require for gun owners. I mean for possible subrogation in case your guns are even stolen. My Uncle as a lifetime member and I can tell you that they are, or at least were, not what they're made out to be today. But the fact that he signed EVERY post like that makes it significant. Bottom line is if you are in a place where you are not allowed to have a gun you are in prison. And thart is possibly why there is less crime, people are born knowing they are subjects. We are entirely too arrogant for that here.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:23:51 -0700, jurb6006 wrote:

[...]

Maybe that's why people are turning to Gun Owners of America?
Certainly when handguns were outlawed in the UK in 1996 or thereabouts,
gun crime went THROUGH THE ROOF.

In article , says...

Maybe that's why people are turning to Gun Owners of America?
Certainly when handguns were outlawed in the UK in 1996 or thereabouts,
gun crime went THROUGH THE ROOF.

I'm a UK resident and unaware of either of the facts. Any references?

Mike.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 20:15:29 +0100, MJC wrote:

In article , says...

Maybe that's why people are turning to Gun Owners of America? Certainly
when handguns were outlawed in the UK in 1996 or thereabouts,
gun crime went THROUGH THE ROOF.

I'm a UK resident and unaware of either of the facts. Any references?

Mike.

Nope. It's off-topic!

Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage. I
like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty,
all taking up valuable space. One of the candidates for selling-off is a
4 channel Philips job (plain analogue). I can't remember ever having had
a need for examining 4 signals at once, but thought I'd better check with
the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing
else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon
as I no longer have it around.
So... get rid or hang on?

I know I have looked at more than two channels. I had one scope with a
total of six channels. 2 plus 4 ch plugins. These were low bandwidth, so I
think it was more like looking at data logging events,

Greg

On 08/18/2015 04:07 AM, gregz wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
Hi all,

I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage. I
like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty,
all taking up valuable space. One of the candidates for selling-off is a
4 channel Philips job (plain analogue). I can't remember ever having had
a need for examining 4 signals at once, but thought I'd better check with
the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing
else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon
as I no longer have it around.
So... get rid or hang on?

I know I have looked at more than two channels. I had one scope with a
total of six channels. 2 plus 4 ch plugins. These were low bandwidth, so I
think it was more like looking at data logging events,

Greg


The Tek 11801 series has four slots, each of which can take a
dual-channel plug-in. Plus there's an expansion unit (SM-11) that will
take 16 more plug-ins (multiple units can get you up to 136 channels).
So there's life after two-channel scopes.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net