I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M

Dave M wrote:

These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?
If you want a nut in the plastic part, you can make a slot that allows you
to slide the nut in from the side. That would be the easiest way to do it.
If you truly want the nut embedded, I suppose you could make the build in
two parts, with a pause in between, where you drop the nut into a
hexagonal cavity. Then, the 2nd part of the build would cover over the nut.

Jon

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M


I've heard of plastic parts taking 50 hours to make on a 3D printer.
Sort of like building a chair out of toothpicks. Maybe machining makes
more sense.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M


I've heard of plastic parts taking 50 hours to make on a 3D printer.
Sort of like building a chair out of toothpicks. Maybe machining makes
more sense.

It depends.

There has been way too much hype about 3D printing. The hype seems to
travel on lack of understanding, or an imagining that what's available
today is what will come in the future.

I did see a column somewhere about them, and they guy basically used the
example of a table to explain 3D printing, though he said nothing about
the time it would take. It was a ridiculous example, since you have to
haul all that plastic home first, then wait while the printing melts that
raw plastic and puts it into the form of a table, which in this case isn't
likely to be ornate, just a block of plastic. Might as well start from
scratch with the plastic.

At this point, most of the hype relates to printers that can only do
plastic, which limits their value. You can have a nice plastic box that
emulates something from the past, but you still won't have a working
device, since the printer can't make the insides. Even if it's just
plastic gears inside, the printer can only make the plastic pieces, it
can't assemble those pieces.

And for the neophyte, it will rely on having a file somewhere that someone
else has made so you can get the printer to print it. That's a big
stretch from actually building something yourself.

I'm much more likely to need some odd piece of metal, and there are ways
of doing that, even before getting a lathe. For plastic, one can salvage
old inkjet printers, that seem to all come in a plastic case that can be
cut and formed without cracking. When I bought my used HP 4P laser
printer a decade ago, I realized on the way home that the cover over the
memory expansion area was missing, perhaps that's why it landed at that
Rotary Club sale with such a low page count. So I took the cover from
some stray inkjet printer I'd dragged home, and cut a piece of plastic to
fit that frame on the HP printer. I have to duct tape it in place, but at
least there is a cover. That kind of plastic, I think ABS?, is quite
workable with tin snips and files.

I did have a need for a piece of plastic a few months ago to try to
replace a broken piece, but I'd need the missing piece and skills I don't
have to measure it and create a file for the 3D printer. I think in many
cases there, people are hoping that the manufacturer will release the
files, so you can make your own pieces. I'm not sure that's going to
happen.

Some places are started to do 3D printing on demand. I'm not talking
about collective workspaces, aka "makerspaces", but libraries and some big
box stores, though I can't remember which of those I was reading about
last week. You submit the file, they print it, you get the 3D image of
the file back, once you pay.

That sort of thing seems to make more sense, a chance to try things out,
to get a grasp of what it's all like. And then you can define whether you
really need your own printer, or if you'll just have a tiny bit of need
for it, and then print endless junk just because you have the printer.

The trick is to see the 3D printers as somewhere in between off the shelf
and making from scratch. If you can't yet figure out how to end up with
bits of metal embedded in the results, then you need to be thinking in
terms of "how can I make this from scratch", which should help to figure
out how it would be done with a printer. If you don't have the skills to
begin with (knowing how to make a knob is different from making a good
looking knob), it's too early to count on the 3D printer to do all the
work.

Michael

You can buy one now for $500.

I expect a replacement cartridge will run $1750.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, Dave M wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would
be to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no
longer available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as
a metal ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer
at about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an
excellent printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are
relatively new on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M

Before you contemplate investing much money in 3D printing of knobs, check
out the surface finish attainable by your intended 3D printer. The ones
I've seen all have some sort of pattern left on the part, as an
unavoidable consequence of the printing process.

You may be able to print a knob and then sand it and polish it, but I
don't think you'll be able to just print a nice shiny knob.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

The most common (cheapest and easiest to use) material is PLA (polylactic
acid), and next is ABS. I think both of those respond well to an acetone
vapor soak, which melts the surface a tiny bit so it flows and becomes
smooth and shiny. Kind of like fire polishing glass. Also, someone talked
about places to get stuff printed, besides the local makerspaces and buying
your own printer. One company that prints your files is shapeways.com,
charging by the volume of material and what the material is. They also have
a storefront where you can sell your printed items. You upload the file,
set the selling price, they put it on their web site storefront, when they
get an order they print it, ship it, and at the end of the month send you
your money minus the printing cost and a handling percentage. Pretty clever
business model, I think. Not a customer, just saw their site.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, Dave M wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would
be to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no
longer available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as
a metal ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer
at about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an
excellent printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are
relatively new on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M

Before you contemplate investing much money in 3D printing of knobs, check
out the surface finish attainable by your intended 3D printer. The ones
I've seen all have some sort of pattern left on the part, as an
unavoidable consequence of the printing process.

You may be able to print a knob and then sand it and polish it, but I
don't think you'll be able to just print a nice shiny knob.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On 14/08/2014 19:51, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M



From what I've seen demonstrated , the plastic used is seriously non
structural, no strength. You would have much stronger structural parts
using expanded metal buried along with bushes etc in epoxy, taking a
mould off the original part. Probably take about the same amount of time
as a 3D printer as well.

On 8/14/14, 1:51 PM, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M


Hi Dave,

If you want to get your own 3D printer and make custom parts I can think
of 3 things you'll need:

First is a 3D drafting package, something that will make a .stl file
(stereo lithography file). I think Google sketchup might work and be
free, but haven't used it. Alibre design used to make a reasonable
SolidWorks clone for about $100 US that is good. SolidWorks is one of
the professional standard tools, but costs a lot.

Second is a program to prepare the .stl file for printing. These
programs are commonly called slicers. Makerbot has one for free. There
are other free ones available, but they may require tweaks to work with
a particular printer. One good one is called Replicator G.

Third is a printer. One decision you need to make is material type. The
two main choices for the class of printers you are considering is PLA (a
hard, biodegradable, brittle plastic) and ABS. Some printers print only
PLA, some print either. Each plastic has its merits. For me, the main
benefit of PLA is less part warping during printing and cooling, and the
main benefit of ABS is part workability for secondary operations after
printing.

There are many types of professional 3D printers. They come closest to
turn-key what-you-draw-is-what-you-get operation. There are many
services that will print your parts for a fee and have available
printers of various capabilities. Materials for these printers cover a
wide range from fused plastic powders to stainless steel. Most companies
use printing supplies as profit centers and so even after purchasing,
printing supplies can cost you. Using a professional service is the
surest way to get parts that are exactly as you've drawn the first try.

If you use an inexpensive home printer, prepare to spend a lot of time.
You'll need to become an expert in it's operation to produce reasonable
results. To my knowledge, there are two main types available. The first,
which I've seen but not operated, uses a photo-polymer and a light
projection system, and is best for small parts and high resolutions
(microns), but the finished material is kind of soft. The second melts a
plastic filament to print the part with resolutions down to about 100 um.

For the inexpensive route, here are some of the things you'll need to
get right for reasonable results:

- the build plate needs to be flat to within about 50 um. This means you
need a machined plate. The plates are typically removable and
adjustable, and it's useful to make tools to help you level the plate.
Too small a gap means the print nozzle will clog up, too large a gap
means the parts will not stick to the build plate. Look at
http://www.thingiverse.com for .stl files for various tooling. A very
inexpensive printer may not include a machined build plate.

- the build plate needs to be heated for using ABS.

- one main problem with this class of printer, and especially with ABS,
is that the parts will warp during printing due to differential cooling.
The best fix is a heated build chamber. Unfortunately, this is patented
and the working parts in a home-class printer are not up to residing
inside a heated build chamber anyhow. One thing you can do to help is to
enclose the printer to at least avoid cool outside air from circulating.
You can also help warping with part design, by minimizing long solid
runs of plastic for example, or putting relief slots into the part to
break up long runs, and later filling with epoxy. These printers work
best for parts with under a 4 inch span.

- The home-class additive printers (melted plastic) can't print much of
an overhang reliably (around 45 degrees or so). You need to take this
into account when designing your parts.

You mentioned embedding metal into the parts. Brass inserts are
available in various sizes and can be melted into holes in ABS parts
using a soldering iron (one you don't love anyhow). Printing ABS with
embedded metal parts, while not impossible, is IMHO, impractical in most
situations. JB weld epoxy has been useful for modifying parts after
printing.

To sum up, I think these printers can be a useful tool for prototyping,
making jigs and even for short run production, especially for internal
brackets that don't need the strength of metal and where surface finish
is not important. The home-class machines require a large investment of
time but not a lot of cash. The professional printing services are the
best bet if you need only a very occasional part or if you have a
reasonable budget for parts. I might compare using the home-class
machines to making pcbs at home vs using a professional service, say 20
years ago.

ChesterW

Though The Motley Fool feels otherwise, I don't think 3D printing will have
the success //among consumers// people are predicting. At the moment, it's
basically a "toy" product -- and will probably remain so for at least a
decade. HP has been wise not to rush into the market.

What I'd like to see is a system of "manufacturing on demand", especially if
were possible to improve on the item being replaced. For example...

I have two classic Sony radios, the TFM-825 and TFM-117WB, whose paper-cone
speakers were okay-sounding 50 years ago, but would sound a lot better with
plastic or plastic-doped cones. Wouldn't it be nice if I could order a
"modern" version for $10 or $20? (Ditto for the classic KLH full-range
driver.)

This is difficult, though not impossible. The problem isn't //making// the
speaker so much as it is //analyzing// existing samples so the printer can
duplicate the frame, the cone, etc. The cost for a single copy would be beyond
unreasonable.

ChesterW wrote:
On 8/14/14, 1:51 PM, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose
would be to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that
are no longer available. These parts often have imbedded metal
parts, such as a metal ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or
mounting tab. Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional
equipment
or unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot
printer at about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it
is an excellent printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D
printers are relatively new on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M


Hi Dave,

If you want to get your own 3D printer and make custom parts I can
think of 3 things you'll need:

First is a 3D drafting package, something that will make a .stl file
(stereo lithography file).

Snip

Second is a program to prepare the .stl file for printing. These
programs are commonly called slicers.

Snip

Third is a printer. One decision you need to make is material type.
The two main choices for the class of printers you are considering is
PLA (a hard, biodegradable, brittle plastic) and ABS.

Snip

There are many types of professional 3D printers. They come closest to
turn-key what-you-draw-is-what-you-get operation. There are many
services that will print your parts for a fee and have available
printers of various capabilities. Materials for these printers cover a
wide range from fused plastic powders to stainless steel. Most
companies use printing supplies as profit centers and so even after
purchasing, printing supplies can cost you. Using a professional
service is the surest way to get parts that are exactly as you've
drawn the first try.

Snip

To sum up, I think these printers can be a useful tool for
prototyping, making jigs and even for short run production,
especially for internal brackets that don't need the strength of
metal and where surface finish is not important. The home-class
machines require a large investment of time but not a lot of cash.
The professional printing services are the best bet if you need only
a very occasional part or if you have a reasonable budget for parts.
I might compare using the home-class machines to making pcbs at home
vs using a professional service, say 20 years ago.

ChesterW

Thanks for your input, Chester
I'm well aware of the software and 3D modeling requirements in order to even
begin to make a 3D printer work. I've a number of years experience using
and supporting CAD modeling systems, although it's been several years ago.
And I know that the parts produced aren't perfect, but they can make parts
that would otherwise be very to duplicate by other means.
As you infer, learning more about the types of plastics that these things
can handle is very necessary.

I'd like to see one in action, and get more info on what they can (and
can't) do. Right now, as I said in my original post, it's an interest, not
something that I have my heart set on doing.
Other types of manufacturing have been proven to be cost-effective for
hobbyists, such as vacuum forming, and machining, but each process has its
own set of pros and cons, as does 3D printing.
I think my next move is going to be to find a company that will make parts
for me. I didn't know that these these services exist. Do you have any
recommendations?

Many thanks for all the input from the others who have responded.

Dave M

On 8/14/2014 7:00 PM, Carl Ijames wrote:
The most common (cheapest and easiest to use) material is PLA (polylactic
acid), and next is ABS. I think both of those respond well to an acetone
vapor soak, which melts the surface a tiny bit so it flows and becomes
smooth and shiny. Kind of like fire polishing glass.

I've watched videos of people doing the vapor soak to alter the surface
finish. I've yet to see one that did a good job without a loss of
detail. Knobs typically have ridges around the perimeter as a grip
surface. Such a vapor polish would likely cause the ridges to erode
away along with any markings that might be on the knob. But look at
some of the videos and decide for yourself.

Rick


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, Dave M wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would
be to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no
longer available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as
a metal ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer
at about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an
excellent printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are
relatively new on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M

Before you contemplate investing much money in 3D printing of knobs, check
out the surface finish attainable by your intended 3D printer. The ones
I've seen all have some sort of pattern left on the part, as an
unavoidable consequence of the printing process.

You may be able to print a knob and then sand it and polish it, but I
don't think you'll be able to just print a nice shiny knob.



--

Rick

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M



I have a RepRap 3D printer. It's a Prusa Mendel that I assembled as a
kit for $800 a few years ago.I can give you some firsthand knowledge:

Check out http://reprap.org/ for designs.

I'm no mechanical engineer, but I was able to assemble it myself. It
did take a lot of patience. There is a lot of instuctions online, but
I found that the first few steps of the assembly were VERY well
documented, but as I progressed through the assembly, the instructions
gradually got a little sloppy and vague. It's almost as if the person
writing the documentation had to pee really bad near the end, and was
rushing through.

There is also a lot of mechanical "tweaking" that needed to be done
in order to get decent build quality. The more precisely calibrated it
is, the better quality of your output. I was able to get my layer
depth down to 100 microns!

The repraps are meant to be easily sourced for parts, so they can be
available to anyone. They are also pretty "improvable", so there is a
lot of things you can do to make it better: Increase build volume,
automated build platforms, auto bed levelling, etc...

All of the software that I use is available for free. You can buy some
if you want, but the free stuff does the job too. This goes for design
and production software.

It's good for plastic models: bust of Yoda, Model spaceships, etc.
It's also great to replace easily broken plastic things, like a latch
for a dishwasher, toilet paper roll holder, etc.

Check out http://thingiverse.com forfiles of almost anything that you
can think of.

Things it CAN'T do well: very small parts that need a lot of
structural stability. Very small load-bearing clips are not
reasonable. Most items that are expected to be under a load or stress
will have an unusual girth to them.

Also, designs have to take into account GRAVITY, so there is often
support material that you would need to remove after the printing is
done.

On 2014-08-14, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts?

No, but you can make two parts that interlock to capture the metal, or
design for the metal being a press-fit.

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 2014-08-14, Michael Black wrote:

At this point, most of the hype relates to printers that can only do
plastic, which limits their value. You can have a nice plastic box that
emulates something from the past, but you still won't have a working
device, since the printer can't make the insides. Even if it's just
plastic gears inside, the printer can only make the plastic pieces, it
can't assemble those pieces.

It can build them in-place, so you end up with a working device.

--
umop apisdn

"Jasen Betts" wrote in message
...
On 2014-08-14, Michael Black wrote:

At this point, most of the hype relates to printers that can only
do plastic, which limits their value. You can have a nice plastic
box that emulates something from the past, but you still won't
have a working device, since the printer can't make the insides.
Even if it's just plastic gears inside, the printer can only make
the plastic pieces, it can't assemble those pieces.

It can build them in-place, so you end up with a working device.

That's fine for a prototype -- but you wouldn't manufacture products that way.

The 3D printer will never be the equivalent of the Star Trek "matter
synthesizer".

On 8/15/14, 10:02 AM, Dave M wrote:
ChesterW wrote:
On 8/14/14, 1:51 PM, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose
would be to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that
are no longer available. These parts often have imbedded metal
parts, such as a metal ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or
mounting tab. Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional
equipment
or unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot
printer at about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it
is an excellent printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D
printers are relatively new on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,
Dave M


Hi Dave,

If you want to get your own 3D printer and make custom parts I can
think of 3 things you'll need:

First is a 3D drafting package, something that will make a .stl file
(stereo lithography file).

Snip

Second is a program to prepare the .stl file for printing. These
programs are commonly called slicers.

Snip

Third is a printer. One decision you need to make is material type.
The two main choices for the class of printers you are considering is
PLA (a hard, biodegradable, brittle plastic) and ABS.

Snip

There are many types of professional 3D printers. They come closest to
turn-key what-you-draw-is-what-you-get operation. There are many
services that will print your parts for a fee and have available
printers of various capabilities. Materials for these printers cover a
wide range from fused plastic powders to stainless steel. Most
companies use printing supplies as profit centers and so even after
purchasing, printing supplies can cost you. Using a professional
service is the surest way to get parts that are exactly as you've
drawn the first try.

Snip

To sum up, I think these printers can be a useful tool for
prototyping, making jigs and even for short run production,
especially for internal brackets that don't need the strength of
metal and where surface finish is not important. The home-class
machines require a large investment of time but not a lot of cash.
The professional printing services are the best bet if you need only
a very occasional part or if you have a reasonable budget for parts.
I might compare using the home-class machines to making pcbs at home
vs using a professional service, say 20 years ago.

ChesterW

Thanks for your input, Chester
I'm well aware of the software and 3D modeling requirements in order to even
begin to make a 3D printer work. I've a number of years experience using
and supporting CAD modeling systems, although it's been several years ago.
And I know that the parts produced aren't perfect, but they can make parts
that would otherwise be very to duplicate by other means.
As you infer, learning more about the types of plastics that these things
can handle is very necessary.

I'd like to see one in action, and get more info on what they can (and
can't) do. Right now, as I said in my original post, it's an interest, not
something that I have my heart set on doing.
Other types of manufacturing have been proven to be cost-effective for
hobbyists, such as vacuum forming, and machining, but each process has its
own set of pros and cons, as does 3D printing.
I think my next move is going to be to find a company that will make parts
for me. I didn't know that these these services exist. Do you have any
recommendations?

Many thanks for all the input from the others who have responded.

Dave M


Dear Dave,

There are many videos on youtube of these type printers working that
might interest you. There are also many service companies. Search for 3D
printing service and you'll be inundated. If you want an inexpensive
sample of printing from a modest machine, see ebay - some people are
using these to make gee-gaws to sell.

Here's a close-up of the print nozzle for a Makerbot Replicator 1 with a
mm scale:

http://tinyurl.com/lwq74zu

and here's a photo of a part with a melted-in brass insert:

http://tinyurl.com/kvqdav7

A couple of other mods, besides those I previously listed, needed to get
my printer somewhat reliable were a foil shield to block the extruder
fans from cooling the part and replacing the plastic build plate arms
with machined aluminum arms.

Someone mentioned the possibility of removing a part from the build
plate and then precisely replacing it to continue the build. I wouldn't
say it's impossible, especially since someone here would then do it, but
it would be very impractical. The part is basically melted onto the
build plate as the first layer is printed, and this adhesion keeps the
part registered during the build. Loss of adhesion is a major cause of
failed builds.

Some printers offer the option to pause in mid-build and then re-start.
The feature is intended to allow you to change filament, say to a
different color. It might be possible to get close to what you want
using a pause as long as you don't remove the part from the build plate.
You'd need to make sure that any metal you placed did not extend above
the previously printed surface - else your print head will crash into
the metal. Another way to embed metal might be to print the part in two
halves, place the metal piece, and then glue the halves together.

I think machines like the Makerbot can produce reasonable results, but
you pay with your time. You can even get nice prototype cases if you are
willing to do some filling, sanding and painting. Alternatively you can
get pretty and reliable prints from a service or by purchasing a $20k
Stratasys machine, then you pay with your wallet.

ChesterW

On 8/15/2014 8:40 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-08-14, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts?

No, but you can make two parts that interlock to capture the metal, or
design for the metal being a press-fit.


Another approach is to make a plaster mould and cast it. You have to
make some jig to hold the metal part where you want it while the
material cures, but that isn't a fundamental problem in most cases.

Devcon polyurethane is a good material for this.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 12:34:17 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 8/15/2014 8:40 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-08-14, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts?

No, but you can make two parts that interlock to capture the metal, or
design for the metal being a press-fit.


Another approach is to make a plaster mould and cast it. You have to
make some jig to hold the metal part where you want it while the
material cures, but that isn't a fundamental problem in most cases.

Devcon polyurethane is a good material for this.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Hobby stores have cool plastic casting supplies.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 12:34:17 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 8/15/2014 8:40 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-08-14, Dave M wrote:
I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would
be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts?

No, but you can make two parts that interlock to capture the metal, or
design for the metal being a press-fit.


Another approach is to make a plaster mould and cast it. You have to
make some jig to hold the metal part where you want it while the
material cures, but that isn't a fundamental problem in most cases.

Devcon polyurethane is a good material for this.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Hobby stores have cool plastic casting supplies.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
================================================== ======================

I've bought a few different polyurethane rubbers and hard plastic from
www.smooth-on.com, and am a very satisfied customer. They also have lots of
very good how-to articles, picture stories, and now more and more videos.
Even if you never buy from them (:-)) it's worth it to go read their stuff
on pulling molds from originals and casting.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:51:01 -0500, "Dave M"
wrote:

I'm starting to get interested in 3D printing. My primary purpose would be
to make parts for obsolete equipment, and other parts that are no longer
available. These parts often have imbedded metal parts, such as a metal
ferrule inside a knob, or an imbedded nut or mounting tab.
Can 3D printers make such parts? If so, is any additional equipment or
unique model of 3D printers required?

Monoprice has a model that appears to be a clone of a Makerbot printer at
about half the price. Reviews seem to indicate that it is an excellent
printer, although not perfect. I guess that 3D printers are relatively new
on the scene, and will improve in time.

Thanks for any insight,

Coming in late to the discussion -- got hit by the Win7(64) BSOD from
the latest Black Patch Tuesday. &^$^%&# Microsoft

Embedding nuts and such like is quite possible. The print needs to
stay in place on the build platform and the print paused just as it's
starting the layer that covers the nut, which has to rest flush with
or just below the last printed surface. But it's basically pause, pop
it/them in, and hit continue.

For strength, parts are certainly weakest in the layer plane and thin
walls or toothpick-sized risers normal to the layer plane can be
fragile. On the other hand, I did some custom length hex standoffs in
ABS, 1/4" on the flats and not quite 1.25 inches long, F-to-F for #4
machine screws that were too tough to break by hand. Also, no nuts
needed, just size the holes right.

Cosmetically, they're always recognizable as printed parts. Any good
consumer grade machine should be able to do 0.1 mm layers ("normal"
layer thickness nowadays is 0.2 mm) but 0.1mm ups the build time and
it's still recognizably "printed." ABS, but not PLA, can be vapor
smoothed with acetone.

PLA prints at a lower temperature (about 200C), doesn't require a
headed build plate (although it helps for sticking the all important
first layer), and shrinks about 0.2% as it cools. It has a harder
surface than ABS but it tends to break rather than yield. Glass
transition temperature is about 65C, so leaving PLA parts in a hot car
is a bad idea. Smells like waffles when printing.

ABS prints at around 230C but does need a hot build plate (I use 110C
for the first layer, 85C for subsequent) and an enclosed, draft-free
chamber. Shrinks about 0.7% and can delaminate or curl during printing
if conditions aren't right. Tougher than PLA and bends rather than
snap. Higher glass transition temp (abt 105C). Smells like burning
plastic when printing, though, so a filtered exhaust is suggested.

There are some "exotic" filaments (nylon, PVA, etc.) but PLA and ABS
are the bulk of the raw materials used in consumer machines.

It's not (yet?) a point'n'click technology. Leveling (tramming) the
build plate and preparing the build surface (AquaNet hair spray is
actually a favorite for this ;-), tweaking filament feed rates and
melt pool ooze compensation, extra cooling fans or not, etc. are all
part of the fun.

The Monoprice printer looks like a rebadged FlashForge Creator X,
which is indeed one of the MakerBot Replicator 1 clones. It will do
PLA just fine as-is (hint: cover the build platform with 3M blue
painter's tape that has been wiped with isopropyl alcohol for a good
surface for PLA) and ABS if the top and front are covered to exclude
drafts. Hairspray (AquaNet unscented extra hold) on either Kapton or
glass as a surface for ABS. Should be a good, decent machine. Do give
it a once over for loose screws. Also flip it over to expose the main
PCB and check that the connectors there are all tight. There's also a
bad habit on some of these of tinning leads going to screw compression
connections, which IMHO is A Bad Thing, especially for the main 24V
power connections. I'd clip off the tinning and either go commando or,
better, crimp on ferrules if you've got some.

Do not dive in and try printing giant skulls (or whatever) right off.
Start with the 20x20x10mm calibration boxes until you've got leveling
and surface prep down and your extrusion multipliers are tweaked in.

Your main board will be similar to the MightyBoard Rev E. Schematics
over at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16058

There's a FlashForge group over at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/flashforge