Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
life ?

On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:

Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked,
we got a mobile phone with which we link with WiFi to a modem
router, and use it as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are
using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an
amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no "moving parts" unlike a computer, we are
wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going
to shorten its working life ?

Using anything shortens its working life.

Not so. There aren't any obvious failure mechanisms in solid-state devices
(other than dopant migration in high-power output transistors).

It's also true that most mechanical devices "like" moderate use. Letting
anything mechanical "sit" most of the time will probably cause it fail
sooner than if receives regular use.

It's now possible to build computers without moving parts (other than the
optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.

On 10/2/2012 5:43 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:

Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked,
we got a mobile phone with which we link with WiFi to a modem
router, and use it as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are
using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an
amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no "moving parts" unlike a computer, we are
wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going
to shorten its working life ?

Using anything shortens its working life.

Not so. There aren't any obvious failure mechanisms in solid-state devices
(other than dopant migration in high-power output transistors).

It's also true that most mechanical devices "like" moderate use. Letting
anything mechanical "sit" most of the time will probably cause it fail
sooner than if receives regular use.

It's now possible to build computers without moving parts (other than the
optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.


There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you don't use it,
it has no working life. I don't wish to play semantics but if you use it
you are using up it's working life.

There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.

Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.

These, if flash memory, do have a definite wear out mechanism, although
they do try to avoid writing to the same spot, even if the software
does, to mitigate this.

On 10/2/2012 6:32 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.

Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.


I don't agree but will say no more.
Regards,
Tom

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:57:07 -0400, Tom Biasi
wrote:

On 10/2/2012 6:32 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.

Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.


I don't agree but will say no more.
Regards,
Tom

Not sure if my News server supports x-posts to the entire Usenet, but
I digress.

An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
Equipment with lots of thermionic devices like very early computers
were, as far as practical, never switched off because of the
likelihood of failure.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham."


An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.


** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

Some web forum ?

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Graham."


An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.


** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

Some web forum ?

I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which causes
premature failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_shock

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_valves

"The common wisdom was that valves—which, like light bulbs, contained a hot
glowing filament—could never be used satisfactorily in large numbers, for
they were unreliable, and in a large installation too many would fail in too
short a time".[13] Tommy Flowers, who later designed Colossus, "discovered
that, so long as valves were switched on and left on, they could operate
reliably for very long periods, especially if their 'heaters' were run on a
reduced current".

"David Woolley" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs
start to run.

These, if flash memory, do have a definite wear out mechanism,
although they do try to avoid writing to the same spot, even if the
software does, to mitigate this.

Correct. SSDs are an exception. They contain "leveling" software that makes
sure the disk is written to evenly. The Crucial disk I use is spec'd at
about 40TB of total writes.

"JoRob64"
"Phil Allison"
"Graham."


An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.


** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

Some web forum ?

I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which
causes premature failure.


** ******** it does.

There are many applications where incandescent lamps are turned on and off
constantly and their life span is the same.

The OP's hypothetical example ( don't ya just LOVE them) is typical of
domestic lamp use.

****wit.


..... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:
"JoRob64"
"Phil Allison"
"Graham."


An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000
hours when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter
if run (say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.


** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

Some web forum ?

I believe turning the bulbs on and off can induce thermal shock which
causes premature failure.


** ******** it does.

There are many applications where incandescent lamps are turned on
and off constantly and their life span is the same.

The OP's hypothetical example ( don't ya just LOVE them) is typical of
domestic lamp use.

****wit.


.... Phil

No Phil, that is not correct. If he only listens to Rap , its lifespan will
be shortend greatly.
Buffalo

On Oct 2, 6:28*pm, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"Graham."



An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.

** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

* * *Some web forum ?

He is right, the stresses involved in the turn-on of the bulb each
time is equal to several hours of continuous running. If you cycle a
bulb on and off every few seconds, the total on time before the bulb
fails will be only a few hundered hours for a 1000 hour rated bulb,

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:28:13 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

"Graham."

An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.

** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

It's not nonsense. The inrush current of a cold filament can shorten
the filament life. That's why light bulbs usually blow up when you
turn them on, not while they're running. The induced magnetic field
also tends to "twang" the filament, which can break the filament if it
were somehow mechanically weakened.

While attending kollege in the 1960's, I worked for a short time as a
non-union projectionist at a movie theater. Besides babysitting the
projectors, I had to deal with the flashing light bulb marquee. I
vaguely recall that there were something like 2000 40 watt light
bulbs. Roughly once per week, my job was to replace the blown bulbs
from a rickety pre-OSHA 20ft wooden ladder, sometimes at night. I
didn't keep count, but every week, we would lose about 20 light bulbs.
Doing the math, that means after about 2 years, ALL the light bulbs
would have been replaced at least once. At 8 hrs run per day, that's
800 hrs lifetime which isn't all that great, especially since we were
running the bulbs at reduced voltage to improve the lifetime. We used
the same bulbs in the theater foyer and lobby, where they were NOT
cycled on and off like the flashing marquee. I rarely replaced those
bulbs and they seemed to last forever.

Some web forum ?

If you repeat something often enough, it eventually becomes dogma.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

Seems to go against the whole ethos of exercising. Never get out of bed and
live forever ...

"jim stone" wrote in message
...
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it
as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working life ?

You'll have dropped it well before it wears out :-). BTW, a cheap PC
speaker set might be handy if you want a little more volume. And you can
probably find a decent streaming client if you have your music sitting on a
PC somewhere.

Paul DS.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
There are many factors that cause something to fail. I you
don't use it, it has no working life. I don't wish to play
semantics but if you use it you are using up its working life.

Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.



Yes, this is also true with EM (Electro-Mechanical) devices like
pinballs and jukeboxes (and other arcade games)- regular use keeps the
contacts on the relays clean from their designed in rubbing action
(overtravel). If the machine is not used then the contacts tend to
oxidize and not pass electrical current well leading to service calls.

HOWEVER the topic here is a solid state mobile phone - and that device
really doesn't care too much if it is on or off as long as it operates
in a reasonable temperature range (around 20 - 35C). Chances are it will
be obsolete before it fails if it runs cool to the touch.

Heat is the enemy of electronics, mostly capacitors - and their life
gets quite short the warmer the operating temperature gets above
50C...just read the spec sheets. Typical electrolytics endurance: - up
to 5,000 Hours at 105°C or about 210 days (7 months) running 24/7.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:28:13 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

"Graham."

An incandescent light bulb is a good example, If it lasts 1000 hours
when run continuously, its life will be considerably shorter if run
(say) 4 hours a day and the time it is on added up.
** Where ever did you get that nonsense from ??

It's not nonsense. The inrush current of a cold filament can shorten
the filament life. That's why light bulbs usually blow up when you
turn them on, not while they're running. The induced magnetic field
also tends to "twang" the filament, which can break the filament if it
were somehow mechanically weakened.

While attending kollege in the 1960's, I worked for a short time as a
non-union projectionist at a movie theater. Besides babysitting the
projectors, I had to deal with the flashing light bulb marquee. I
vaguely recall that there were something like 2000 40 watt light
bulbs. Roughly once per week, my job was to replace the blown bulbs
from a rickety pre-OSHA 20ft wooden ladder, sometimes at night. I
didn't keep count, but every week, we would lose about 20 light bulbs.
Doing the math, that means after about 2 years, ALL the light bulbs
would have been replaced at least once. At 8 hrs run per day, that's
800 hrs lifetime which isn't all that great, especially since we were
running the bulbs at reduced voltage to improve the lifetime. We used
the same bulbs in the theater foyer and lobby, where they were NOT
cycled on and off like the flashing marquee. I rarely replaced those
bulbs and they seemed to last forever.

Some web forum ?

If you repeat something often enough, it eventually becomes dogma.


Well-designed lighting circuits provide 'keep-alive' voltage to the
filaments to reduce most of the inrush current. Might have put you out
of that job though...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 03/10/2012 01:25, Phil Allison wrote:
There are many applications where incandescent lamps are turned on and off
constantly and their life span is the same.


There were many installations using thermionic valves where very long
life was achieved by leaving them running continuously. The GPO had
discovered this and it influenced Bletchley Park with their early
computers, some did not believe they would get a reliable system but the
GPO engineers working there convinced them that it was possible.

There are frequent stories in the press of incandescent light bulbs that
have been running continuously for very long periods - tens of years.

Just like not using it does in fact.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

In article
,
hr(bob) wrote:

He is right, the stresses involved in the turn-on of the bulb each
time is equal to several hours of continuous running. If you cycle a
bulb on and off every few seconds, the total on time before the bulb
fails will be only a few hundered hours for a 1000 hour rated bulb,

It would be a strange way to rate the life of a lamp - on constantly,
since this pretty well never happens.

Do you find the 'flasher' lamps on your car failing more quickly than
similar lamps which don't flash?

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , William Sommerwerck
scribeth thus
"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:

Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked,
we got a mobile phone with which we link with WiFi to a modem
router, and use it as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are
using it to play *all-day* background classical music through an
amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no "moving parts" unlike a computer, we are
wondering if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going
to shorten its working life ?

Using anything shortens its working life.

Not so. There aren't any obvious failure mechanisms in solid-state devices
(other than dopant migration in high-power output transistors).

Yes interesting that especially in high power RF transistors, 'tho I
believe in such cases its paralled emitter connections that start going
open circuit...


It's also true that most mechanical devices "like" moderate use. Letting
anything mechanical "sit" most of the time will probably cause it fail
sooner than if receives regular use.

It's now possible to build computers without moving parts (other than the
optical drives). My new computer has a solid-state "hard disk", and you
wouldn't believe how fast it boots up, or how fast programs start to run.



Indeed they do just got one, not in this machine but very fast indeed.
They still it seems fail though...

--
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:12:34 +0100, MB wrote:
There are frequent stories in the press of incandescent light bulbs that
have been running continuously for very long periods - tens of years.

110 years:
http://www.centennialbulb.org

Of course, the lifetime of light bulbs is part of an international
conspiracy to promote planned obsolescence:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/light-bulb-conspiracy/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tom Biasi wrote:
Not so. With mechanical devices, regular moderate use provides a longer
useful lifetime than using the device only rarely.


I don't agree but will say no more.

Laser printers. I have given away for parts several laser printers because
they sat unused 99% of the time, and started to jam when I printed the
one or two pages a month I needed them for.

Not only did the rubber wheels dry out and lose their ability to grab paper,
they flatten where they are pressed against something.

I have a perfectly good Samsung laser printer in that condition now.

My choices are to once a week clean out a jam, and clean the feed roller;
print something everyday (a waste of paper); spend $15 for a new roller
(including postage) and an hour to install it; or wait for a sale
(every 2-3 months) and buy a newer faster, higher resolution model with a
2,000 page toner cartridge included for less than the cost of a full load toner.

Geoff.



--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
"Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play
chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician."
(sent to me by a friend)

"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

I can vouch for the remark made but I can give you more details too:

I use smartphones, tablets and laptops to listen to internet radio all the
time and I've only had one device that suffered because of that. What
happened to that particular device is the WiFi quit working and it doesn't
even work after a factory reset.

But out of all the other devices I've used they haven't demonstrated any
problems at all.

Rocky

Using anything shortens its working life.

I can vouch for the remark made but I can give you more details too:

I use smartphones, tablets and laptops to listen to internet radio all the
time and I've only had one device that suffered because of that. What
happened to that particular device is the WiFi quit working and it doesn't
even work after a factory reset.

Who knows why the WiFi quit? The radio could have failed simply because the
chip went bad.

HP has had problems with the radios in some of its notebooks.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Using anything shortens its working life.

I can vouch for the remark made but I can give you more details too:

I use smartphones, tablets and laptops to listen to internet radio all
the
time and I've only had one device that suffered because of that. What
happened to that particular device is the WiFi quit working and it
doesn't
even work after a factory reset.

Who knows why the WiFi quit? The radio could have failed simply because
the
chip went bad.

HP has had problems with the radios in some of its notebooks.

Yes, I've heard that and I've even seen one person that no longer has WiFi
on their HP notebook but they claimed it was the switch itself that quit
working so I try not to use the hardware WiFi switch on an HP notebook.

Me, I've had a power plug fail on an HP ZD7000 notebook and that was common
for that particular notebook.

I've also had a DVD fail on an HP DV8000 notebook but when the second DVD
failed too I went back to the first DVD and it has been working fine since
then. I doubt if I'll ever figure that one out unless if it was a problem
with the connector.

Other than that, I've seen a lot of videos on youtube with problematic HPs
where if it isn't the WiFi that goes out it is the video. Case in point:

HP 's Worst Laptop Ever - Pavilion ZD8000 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2stqQtQePcM&hd=1

Oddly enough I skipped getting the HP ZD8000 because I went from an HP
ZD7000 to the HP DV8000 where the ZD8000 looks more like the ZD7000 than the
DV8000.

FYI the only device I had that lost the WiFi was a Pharos Traveler 137 that
I got real cheap when a place was getting rid of them so I wasn't too upset
when the WiFi quit on that.
http://www.pharosgps.com/products/proddetail.asp?prod=001_PTL137_8.00

But the video on certain Dell Laptops? Don't get me started.

Rocky

On 10/03/2012 05:12 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
hr(bob) wrote:

He is right, the stresses involved in the turn-on of the bulb each
time is equal to several hours of continuous running. If you cycle a
bulb on and off every few seconds, the total on time before the bulb
fails will be only a few hundered hours for a 1000 hour rated bulb,

It would be a strange way to rate the life of a lamp - on constantly,
since this pretty well never happens.

Do you find the 'flasher' lamps on your car failing more quickly than
similar lamps which don't flash?


I don't know of any data that supports this common idea, but I'd be
interested in reading about it if anybody's actually done the experiment
carefully. Electromigration is a smaller effect in an AC bulb, since
the leading order effect cancels.

I suspect that the notion that cycling is hard on bulbs comes from the
way that the bulb often fails at turn-on, when the thinnest hot spot
vapourizes before the rest of the filament has a chance to come up to
temperature and reduce the inrush current.

The tungsten in the lamp is run within a few hundred kelvins of its
melting point, so it's always in the fully annealed state, which ought
to mean that there are no metal fatigue mechanisms operating, just
material migration due to sublimation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:14:45 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

If you cycle a
bulb on and off every few seconds, the total on time before the bulb
fails will be only a few hundered hours for a 1000 hour rated bulb,

Every wonder where the 1000 hrs came from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
If you stress a 1000 hr incandescent bulb, the lifetime will be even
less.

It also applies to CFL bulbs:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/6122459/Lifespan-of-energy-saving-bulbs-reduced-by-repeated-switching.html
The lifespan of energy-saving light bulbs can be reduced
by up to 85 per cent if they are switched off and on too often...

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 08:38:54 +0100, "Paul D Smith"
wrote:

"jim stone" wrote in message
...
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it
as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working life ?

You'll have dropped it well before it wears out :-).

You'll wear out the batteries before you drop it and you'll want the new
iThingy before the batteries die. Full employment for the phone company.

BTW, a cheap PC
speaker set might be handy if you want a little more volume. And you can
probably find a decent streaming client if you have your music sitting on a
PC somewhere.

On 10/2/2012 17:21, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
life ?


Does the mobile have a subscription plan; i.e. periodic payments?

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 07:01:25 +0100, "MikeS"
wrote:

"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

Seems to go against the whole ethos of exercising. Never get out of bed and
live forever ...


Blanket absolute statements are often wrong...

You have to match the logic to the device. Light bulbs? Off makes
them last longest. A car engine? You better exercise that sucker
once in awhile if it sits outside fully fueled. Many electronic
devices can tolerate 24/7 with few failures. Disk drives? Now that's
a question. The early ones (sealed ones - not the very early ones
where the platters were removable 12" disks) seemed to do better if
they ran 'til they croaked. The early drum recorders seemed to last
forever as long as they didn't stop running. (the heads rode on a
wave of silicon oil and never touched the belts unless they stopped)

William Sommerwerck wrote:
Using anything shortens its working life.

I can vouch for the remark made but I can give you more details too:

I use smartphones, tablets and laptops to listen to internet radio all the
time and I've only had one device that suffered because of that. What
happened to that particular device is the WiFi quit working and it doesn't
even work after a factory reset.

Who knows why the WiFi quit? The radio could have failed simply because the
chip went bad.

HP has had problems with the radios in some of its notebooks.




This might be where a Knoppix disk can help arbitrate between a
software/configuration problem and a hardware failure. Any time
I have something fail, I do the "Remove Device"/"Add Device"
dance, then update drivers.

If that fails, out comes the Knoppix disk. If it *still* fails,
it's most likely hardware. I've been lucky so far and nothing
has needed a lot of scrounging for Linux device drivers.

--
Les Cargill

On 10/3/2012 1:01 AM, MikeS wrote:
"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

Seems to go against the whole ethos of exercising. Never get out of bed and
live forever ...


Be sure to use all ten fingers on the tv remote, make them last longer.

"jim stone" wrote in message
...
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it
as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working life ?


The bits that will fail [first] in a mobile phone are the battery and
display. You can replace the battery and switch off the display.

I have two 40+ year old solid state radios that still work.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:48:40 -0500, amdx wrote:

On 10/3/2012 1:01 AM, MikeS wrote:
"Tom Biasi" wrote in message
...
On 10/2/2012 5:21 PM, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working
life ?



Using anything shortens it's working life.

Seems to go against the whole ethos of exercising. Never get out of bed and
live forever ...


Be sure to use all ten fingers on the tv remote, make them last longer.

The TV, the remote, or the fingers?

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:52:53 +0100, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:


"jim stone" wrote in message
...
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got
mobile phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it
as an internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it
to play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and
speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering
if this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its
working life ?


The bits that will fail [first] in a mobile phone are the battery and
display. You can replace the battery and switch off the display.

Except phones with hardwired batteries.

I have two 40+ year old solid state radios that still work.

My 39YO HP45 still works but the power switch is too flaky to be usable.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:32:57 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

I don't know of any data that supports this common idea, but I'd be
interested in reading about it if anybody's actually done the experiment
carefully.

It's an accelerated life test. The deration curve of the incandescent
light bulb is well known and assumed to be
(Vapplied/Vdesign)^-12 to ^-16 * Life at design voltage
http://www.welchallyn.com/documents/Lighting/OEM_Halogen_Lighting/MC3544HPX_Catalog_2_11_09.pdf
See Fig 5 on Pg 5 for the graph. Nobody wants to wait 1000 hours for
a bulb to blow. So, they increase the applied voltage, which
dramatically decreases the lifetime down to reasonable test times.
Using a rack of bulbs, they obtain an average (or median) lifetime at
the higher voltage. Then, they work backwards on the curve to
estimate what it would be at the design voltage.

When I was specifying lamps for a direction finder for the USCG, I had
to deal with minimum lifetime specs. I asked the vendor (Dialight)
how they tested their T-1 3/4 bulbs and was told that they did an
accelerated lifetime test on a few bulbs from each lot to insure
adequate lifetime along with the usual sampled 1.5% AQL failure test.

Electromigration is a smaller effect in an AC bulb, since
the leading order effect cancels.

Yep. As I understand it (possible wrong), AC filaments break in the
middle, mostly from vibration flexing.

I suspect that the notion that cycling is hard on bulbs comes from the
way that the bulb often fails at turn-on, when the thinnest hot spot
vapourizes before the rest of the filament has a chance to come up to
temperature and reduce the inrush current.

Yep. See my comments on the relatively high failure rate on the
40watt theater marquee lamps due to cycling. The same lamps in the
lobby and foyer were not cycled and seemed to last forever.

The tungsten in the lamp is run within a few hundred kelvins of its
melting point, so it's always in the fully annealed state, which ought
to mean that there are no metal fatigue mechanisms operating, just
material migration due to sublimation.

Yep, but different failure mode. When the extremely thin layer of
tungsten plating evaporates, the light becomes dimmer. Below some
brightness level, it is considered to have failed. However, most such
tungsten coated filaments fail due to corrosion of the base steel
alloy wire which is exposed to the internal gases inside the bulb
after the tungsten evaporates. The gases (mostly nitrogen and some
argon) are inert, but there's a little water vapor outgassing from
heating the glass envelope, which eventually corrodes the filament.
Other failure modes are hot spots and notches caused by manufacturing
variations and tungsten evaporation.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2012-10-02, jim stone wrote:
Not being able to find a small internet radio to buy we liked, we got mobile
phone with which we link with wi-fi to a modem router, and use it as an
internet radio.

Keeping the phoned plugged into its charger all the time, we are using it to
play *all-day* background classical music through an amplifier and speakers.

Since the phone has no 'moving parts' unlike a computer, we are wondering if
this continuous playing all day of the phone is going to shorten its working
life ?

It may be bad for the battery

--
š‚šƒ 100% natural

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