Am I on a hiding to nothing? trying to crack a device with unavailable
remote control, and no button functions to speak of. Is there a technique of
sniffing a microcontroller to at least find the basic pulse repition rate?
perhaps inductive loop over the package or monitoring to nA level in supply
current would register a blip, or is it all or nothing?
Anyway
First tried this with Mitsubishi BD 512 "universal" rc
Removed the 4MHz resonator and fed in a sig gen of about 1.5V pk-pk
(previously scoped), floating from the rc battery levels. With a known
receiver and transmitter code selected, then functions would work over range
3.3 to 5.8M then fail outside that. The rc would work with 1.5V sine between
300K and 10.5M. Didn't continue with that one as you had to manually step
through each in-built code.

Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type you can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) . With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again about 300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original 3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no match to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but not my
target one so far.

N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type you can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything with
a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.


With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again about 300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original 3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no match to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but not my
target one so far.

Look up LIRC (Linux Ifrared Remote Control). There is a library of remote
codes, a way of capturing new ones from a remote and since the definitions
are in a text file, they are easy to "hack".

There are all sorts of input and output devices, if you have a PC with a
regular serial port (not USB), you can build a transmitter from the proper
plug, a resistor and an IR LED.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type you
can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything with
a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so
cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.


With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again about
300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original
3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not
function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no match
to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but not
my
target one so far.

Look up LIRC (Linux Ifrared Remote Control). There is a library of remote
codes, a way of capturing new ones from a remote and since the definitions
are in a text file, they are easy to "hack".

There are all sorts of input and output devices, if you have a PC with a
regular serial port (not USB), you can build a transmitter from the proper
plug, a resistor and an IR LED.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must
order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat
it. :-)

I was not aware of that frequency as being significant , the equivalent over
here is millions of 4.433619MHz and x2 of that , quartz crystals for Phase
Alternate Line. That would explain why it was Never The Same Color (twice)
if they could get away with using ceramic resonators rather than quartz.

I'd already looked at LIRC but no listing for my device. Yes easy enough to
knock up an IR transmitter tacked onto a PC but I've not found a library of
codes or algorithm for generating all permutations of IR transmitter codes,
model trigger code or model plus functions

N_Cook wrote:
I was not aware of that frequency as being significant , the equivalent over
here is millions of 4.433619MHz and x2 of that , quartz crystals for Phase
Alternate Line. That would explain why it was Never The Same Color (twice)
if they could get away with using ceramic resonators rather than quartz.

Often the ceramic resonators were used as filters and for devices that were
designed to work at those frequencies, but where it was not critical.



I'd already looked at LIRC but no listing for my device. Yes easy enough to
knock up an IR transmitter tacked onto a PC but I've not found a library of
codes or algorithm for generating all permutations of IR transmitter codes,
model trigger code or model plus functions

I no longer have an LIRC setup to do it with, as I replaced my MythTV box with
a WD TV Live. If you can find someone with a little PERL programing experience,
they could write a program to copy each remote over to the LIRC config file,
restart the LIRC daemon and send some codes.

Then it would wait for you to hit a key, and try the next one.

It does not have to be very accurate, for example, if your program were to send
off, vol up, vol down, channel up, channel down, start and stop and something
happens at all, you have the correct frequency, spacing etc. From there,
you could play around to get the codes.

If I remember correctly LIRC was ported to the Palm Pilot, and if you could
get it to work on a Palm III or similar device, there are lots of them in
drawers just waiting for someone to ask for them.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:19:07 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex , 81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC.
This type you can set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the
end of a batch of codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything
with a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers, and
many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.

Toasters even had a 3.58 xtal in them. Phreakers were removing them and
replacing the xtal in walkie talkies so they could mess with drive up
window radio equipment for McDonalds, etc...



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

Meat Plow wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:19:07 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex , 81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC.
This type you can set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the
end of a batch of codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything
with a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers, and
many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.

Toasters even had a 3.58 xtal in them. Phreakers were removing them and
replacing the xtal in walkie talkies so they could mess with drive up
window radio equipment for McDonalds, etc...



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse


In the UK we were deprived of Cap'n Crunch 2600 Hz whistles and the phone
routing system to go with it

N_Cook wrote:
In the UK we were deprived of Cap'n Crunch 2600 Hz whistles and the phone
routing system to go with it

I remember visiting the UK in 1984 and trying to call back to the US. The only
way to do it was to call the long distance operator and place a request for
your call. When your turn came up, they would call you back.

Trying to call from a pay phone at a rest stop on a motorway was a comedy
routine straight out of Monty Python. The operator needed the area code
and number of the phone I was calling from to place the call.

In those days, there were no area codes on the phones themselves nor was there
any marking on the phone as to where I was or the exchange it was on.
All I knew was that I was at a rest stop a tour bus had made somewhere
between London and Bath.

Another time, I wantedto leave a message on an answering machine, as in
"look up the EUROPEAN size you want and I'll call you from Paris when I
can buy it". After ten minutes of standing at a pay phone in a B&B, the
oeprator finaly got through and as soon as he heard the recording, he
hung up.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 19:13:11 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
news
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:19:07 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex , 81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a
URC. This type you can set it to flicker away to itself until it
reaches the end of a batch of codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in
the billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had
one, so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital
TV has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and
anything with a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so
cheap and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made
by taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal
with a 3.58mHz one.

Toasters even had a 3.58 xtal in them. Phreakers were removing them and
replacing the xtal in walkie talkies so they could mess with drive up
window radio equipment for McDonalds, etc...



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse


In the UK we were deprived of Cap'n Crunch 2600 Hz whistles and the
phone routing system to go with it

I could whistle at 2600hz and hang up the central opertator line. I made a
blue box for a friend but he got busted before he used it. He was a greek
with dual citizenship and had a girlfriend in Greece he would call using
a reel to reel tape with some prerecorded tones on it. He got the idea
from one of his greek buddies that was here visiting that built a working
blue box and recorded the tones and their sequences on tape. The box was
easy to build, all tin can 741 op amps on a self etched PC board. Problem
was tuning it, I was only 17 back then and had no way to tune it. Said
friend was set to take it to school electronics class and tune it when
the FBI hauled him off one early morning in his boxer shorts He was
deported back to Greece and lost his US citizenship.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

Meat Plow wrote:

I could whistle at 2600hz and hang up the central opertator line. I made a
blue box for a friend but he got busted before he used it. He was a greek
with dual citizenship and had a girlfriend in Greece he would call using
a reel to reel tape with some prerecorded tones on it. He got the idea
from one of his greek buddies that was here visiting that built a working
blue box and recorded the tones and their sequences on tape. The box was
easy to build, all tin can 741 op amps on a self etched PC board. Problem
was tuning it, I was only 17 back then and had no way to tune it. Said
friend was set to take it to school electronics class and tune it when
the FBI hauled him off one early morning in his boxer shorts He was
deported back to Greece and lost his US citizenship.


Even 'Dr. Johnny Fever' knew not to mess with the Phone Cops! ;-)

N_Cook wrote:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type you
can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything with
a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so
cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.


With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again about
300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original
3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not
function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no match
to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but not
my
target one so far.

Look up LIRC (Linux Ifrared Remote Control). There is a library of remote
codes, a way of capturing new ones from a remote and since the definitions
are in a text file, they are easy to "hack".

There are all sorts of input and output devices, if you have a PC with a
regular serial port (not USB), you can build a transmitter from the proper
plug, a resistor and an IR LED.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must
order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat
it. :-)

I was not aware of that frequency as being significant , the equivalent over
here is millions of 4.433619MHz and x2 of that , quartz crystals for Phase
Alternate Line. That would explain why it was Never The Same Color (twice)
if they could get away with using ceramic resonators rather than quartz.


Sigh. The ceramic resonators were used as a chroma trap. Quartz
crystals were used for the color reference. As far as 'Never The Same
Color', network programing was carried across the US on buried coaxial
cables or by microwave relays. Unlike tiny European countries, we
couldn't broadcast from a singe site. Because of this, they were video
amplifiers and equalizers spaced at regular intervals. Because it was
mostly tube, and there were thousands of them in each network they
required constant maintenance. When the network switched to a different
feed from a different studio, there was a phase difference. temperature
changes on the coax caused it's properties to change, as well. That was
why VIR and VITS were developed. It allowed for automatic equalization
to compensate for temperature changes, or when a signal had to be
rerouted. There were a lot of redundant paths, to allow for equipment
failures, or live remote feeds in the days before STL equipment. The
flexibility of the system was proven when Bell Telephone technicians
tied every TV station in the country together in a couple hours, to
allow full, live coverage of the assignation of President Kennedy. I
was at school when it was announced over the PA system. Less than an
hour later, all the students were in the auditorium watching the news
coverage live. By using some spare equipment and knowing the system
inside out, they were able to adapt it to a use it wasn't designed for,
with no permanent changes.

Also, when the nation wide distribution system was designed and
built, there was no color TV. The fact that it could handle color at
all proved that it was well designed.


Sneer all you want about NTSC, but the 'National Television System
Committee' was around a long time before color TV.

http://www.ntsc-tv.com/

Sigh. The ceramic resonators were used as a chroma trap. Quartz
crystals were used for the color reference. As far as 'Never The Same
Color', network programing was carried across the US on buried coaxial
cables or by microwave relays. Unlike tiny European countries, we
couldn't broadcast from a singe site. Because of this, they were video
amplifiers and equalizers spaced at regular intervals. Because it was
mostly tube, and there were thousands of them in each network they
required constant maintenance. When the network switched to a different
feed from a different studio, there was a phase difference. temperature
changes on the coax caused it's properties to change, as well. That was
why VIR and VITS were developed. It allowed for automatic equalization
to compensate for temperature changes, or when a signal had to be
rerouted. There were a lot of redundant paths, to allow for equipment
failures, or live remote feeds in the days before STL equipment. The
flexibility of the system was proven when Bell Telephone technicians
tied every TV station in the country together in a couple hours, to
allow full, live coverage of the assignation of President Kennedy. I
was at school when it was announced over the PA system. Less than an
hour later, all the students were in the auditorium watching the news
coverage live. By using some spare equipment and knowing the system
inside out, they were able to adapt it to a use it wasn't designed for,
with no permanent changes.

This is basically backwards. The US had high quality, phase-linear
transmission systems. Europe did not. The problem with NTSC was sloppy
studio standards.

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:44:09 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

I could whistle at 2600hz and hang up the central opertator line. I
made a blue box for a friend but he got busted before he used it. He
was a greek with dual citizenship and had a girlfriend in Greece he
would call using a reel to reel tape with some prerecorded tones on it.
He got the idea from one of his greek buddies that was here visiting
that built a working blue box and recorded the tones and their
sequences on tape. The box was easy to build, all tin can 741 op amps
on a self etched PC board. Problem was tuning it, I was only 17 back
then and had no way to tune it. Said friend was set to take it to
school electronics class and tune it when the FBI hauled him off one
early morning in his boxer shorts He was deported back to Greece and
lost his US citizenship.


Even 'Dr. Johnny Fever' knew not to mess with the Phone Cops! ;-)

They found out in part by talking to his girlfriend. She explained that
he used a tape device. I stayed at his place the night before so i was
there at 6 am Sunday morning when they came a knockin on his door. I was
zipped up in a sleeping bag peering through an opening when he answered
the door (had a safety chain) opening it part way just enough for an arm
holding a gold badge to pop through I stayed in the bag while they
looked for a tape device which he didn't have there at the time. They
found a loop of tape on an Echoplex tape delay box for guitar that he had
and un-looped it with a pencil thinking they found the evidence They
asked him who was inside the sleeping bag and he said just a friend and
they never bothered me. He had hid the blue box pretty well and it wasn't
found because they found the tape quickly so they were satisfied they had
what they were looking for. When they left I dug out the blue box and
destroyed it. Since they really had no evidence of a device that could
make the calls but knowing the calls came from his number back when he
was living with his parents they could only deport him and revoke his
citizenship. He never went on trial for the calls. Just was given a plane
ticket and said see ya later. They probably made it impossible to get a
visa back into the country since I never saw him again. But he did call me
maybe 10 years later from Greece. He said he was in a friends recording
studio. That was in 1982.




--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:18:28 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

Sigh. The ceramic resonators were used as a chroma trap. Quartz
crystals were used for the color reference. As far as 'Never The Same
Color', network programing was carried across the US on buried coaxial
cables or by microwave relays. Unlike tiny European countries, we
couldn't broadcast from a singe site. Because of this, they were video
amplifiers and equalizers spaced at regular intervals. Because it was
mostly tube, and there were thousands of them in each network they
required constant maintenance. When the network switched to a
different feed from a different studio, there was a phase difference.
temperature changes on the coax caused it's properties to change, as
well. That was why VIR and VITS were developed. It allowed for
automatic equalization to compensate for temperature changes, or when a
signal had to be rerouted. There were a lot of redundant paths, to
allow for equipment failures, or live remote feeds in the days before
STL equipment. The flexibility of the system was proven when Bell
Telephone technicians tied every TV station in the country together in
a couple hours, to allow full, live coverage of the assignation of
President Kennedy. I was at school when it was announced over the PA
system. Less than an hour later, all the students were in the
auditorium watching the news coverage live. By using some spare
equipment and knowing the system inside out, they were able to adapt it
to a use it wasn't designed for, with no permanent changes.

This is basically backwards. The US had high quality, phase-linear
transmission systems. Europe did not. The problem with NTSC was sloppy
studio standards.

Lots of TV programming was not in color here until 1967. I remember an
old Soap called Dark Shadows. I remember when they first started airing
in color. Must have had problems because they when between B&W and color
almost every other daily episode for weeks.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

Michael A. Terrell wrote in message
m...

N_Cook wrote:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type
you
can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch
of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in
the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital
TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything
with
a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so
cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.


With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again
about
300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original
3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not
function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no
match
to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines
for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types
of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of
kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but
not
my
target one so far.

Look up LIRC (Linux Ifrared Remote Control). There is a library of
remote
codes, a way of capturing new ones from a remote and since the
definitions
are in a text file, they are easy to "hack".

There are all sorts of input and output devices, if you have a PC with
a
regular serial port (not USB), you can build a transmitter from the
proper
plug, a resistor and an IR LED.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must
order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to
eat
it. :-)

I was not aware of that frequency as being significant , the equivalent
over
here is millions of 4.433619MHz and x2 of that , quartz crystals for
Phase
Alternate Line. That would explain why it was Never The Same Color
(twice)
if they could get away with using ceramic resonators rather than quartz.


Sigh. The ceramic resonators were used as a chroma trap. Quartz
crystals were used for the color reference. As far as 'Never The Same
Color', network programing was carried across the US on buried coaxial
cables or by microwave relays. Unlike tiny European countries, we
couldn't broadcast from a singe site. Because of this, they were video
amplifiers and equalizers spaced at regular intervals. Because it was
mostly tube, and there were thousands of them in each network they
required constant maintenance. When the network switched to a different
feed from a different studio, there was a phase difference. temperature
changes on the coax caused it's properties to change, as well. That was
why VIR and VITS were developed. It allowed for automatic equalization
to compensate for temperature changes, or when a signal had to be
rerouted. There were a lot of redundant paths, to allow for equipment
failures, or live remote feeds in the days before STL equipment. The
flexibility of the system was proven when Bell Telephone technicians
tied every TV station in the country together in a couple hours, to
allow full, live coverage of the assignation of President Kennedy. I
was at school when it was announced over the PA system. Less than an
hour later, all the students were in the auditorium watching the news
coverage live. By using some spare equipment and knowing the system
inside out, they were able to adapt it to a use it wasn't designed for,
with no permanent changes.

Also, when the nation wide distribution system was designed and
built, there was no color TV. The fact that it could handle color at
all proved that it was well designed.


Sneer all you want about NTSC, but the 'National Television System
Committee' was around a long time before color TV.

http://www.ntsc-tv.com/


So was that Allen Funt who televised the assignation between JFK and Marilyn
Munroe?

N_Cook wrote:

So was that Allen Funt who televised the assignation between JFK and Marilyn
Munroe?


Yawn. Keep proving your stupidity. The President being shot to
death was a national tragedy. Maybe the next one will be in England, so
you can have an even bigger laugh. Maybe you'll get to roast
marshmallows at the wake.

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:44:09 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

I could whistle at 2600hz and hang up the central opertator line. I
made a blue box for a friend but he got busted before he used it. He
was a greek with dual citizenship and had a girlfriend in Greece he
would call using a reel to reel tape with some prerecorded tones on it.
He got the idea from one of his greek buddies that was here visiting
that built a working blue box and recorded the tones and their
sequences on tape. The box was easy to build, all tin can 741 op amps
on a self etched PC board. Problem was tuning it, I was only 17 back
then and had no way to tune it. Said friend was set to take it to
school electronics class and tune it when the FBI hauled him off one
early morning in his boxer shorts He was deported back to Greece and
lost his US citizenship.


Even 'Dr. Johnny Fever' knew not to mess with the Phone Cops! ;-)

They found out in part by talking to his girlfriend. She explained that
he used a tape device. I stayed at his place the night before so i was
there at 6 am Sunday morning when they came a knockin on his door. I was
zipped up in a sleeping bag peering through an opening when he answered
the door (had a safety chain) opening it part way just enough for an arm
holding a gold badge to pop through I stayed in the bag while they
looked for a tape device which he didn't have there at the time. They
found a loop of tape on an Echoplex tape delay box for guitar that he had
and un-looped it with a pencil thinking they found the evidence They
asked him who was inside the sleeping bag and he said just a friend and
they never bothered me. He had hid the blue box pretty well and it wasn't
found because they found the tape quickly so they were satisfied they had
what they were looking for. When they left I dug out the blue box and
destroyed it. Since they really had no evidence of a device that could
make the calls but knowing the calls came from his number back when he
was living with his parents they could only deport him and revoke his
citizenship. He never went on trial for the calls. Just was given a plane
ticket and said see ya later. They probably made it impossible to get a
visa back into the country since I never saw him again. But he did call me
maybe 10 years later from Greece. He said he was in a friends recording
studio. That was in 1982.


You're lucky it wasn't Scully & Mulder. They would have know where
it was, before the door was opened. ;-)

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:08:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:


N_Cook wrote:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type you
can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything with
a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so
cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.


With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again about
300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original
3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not
function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no match
to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but not
my
target one so far.

Look up LIRC (Linux Ifrared Remote Control). There is a library of remote
codes, a way of capturing new ones from a remote and since the definitions
are in a text file, they are easy to "hack".

There are all sorts of input and output devices, if you have a PC with a
regular serial port (not USB), you can build a transmitter from the proper
plug, a resistor and an IR LED.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must
order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat
it. :-)

I was not aware of that frequency as being significant , the equivalent over
here is millions of 4.433619MHz and x2 of that , quartz crystals for Phase
Alternate Line. That would explain why it was Never The Same Color (twice)
if they could get away with using ceramic resonators rather than quartz.


Sigh. The ceramic resonators were used as a chroma trap. Quartz
crystals were used for the color reference. As far as 'Never The Same
Color', network programing was carried across the US on buried coaxial
cables or by microwave relays. Unlike tiny European countries, we
couldn't broadcast from a singe site. Because of this, they were video
amplifiers and equalizers spaced at regular intervals. Because it was
mostly tube, and there were thousands of them in each network they
required constant maintenance. When the network switched to a different
feed from a different studio, there was a phase difference. temperature
changes on the coax caused it's properties to change, as well. That was
why VIR and VITS were developed. It allowed for automatic equalization
to compensate for temperature changes, or when a signal had to be
rerouted. There were a lot of redundant paths, to allow for equipment
failures, or live remote feeds in the days before STL equipment. The
flexibility of the system was proven when Bell Telephone technicians
tied every TV station in the country together in a couple hours, to

allow full, live coverage of the assignation of President Kennedy. I
I thought he kept them secret? --'^^^^^^^^^^^ Freudian slip?

Wonderful what slips a careless spellcheck will show

Grant.

was at school when it was announced over the PA system. Less than an
hour later, all the students were in the auditorium watching the news
coverage live. By using some spare equipment and knowing the system
inside out, they were able to adapt it to a use it wasn't designed for,
with no permanent changes.

Also, when the nation wide distribution system was designed and
built, there was no color TV. The fact that it could handle color at
all proved that it was well designed.


Sneer all you want about NTSC, but the 'National Television System
Committee' was around a long time before color TV.

http://www.ntsc-tv.com/

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:21:05 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:44:09 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

I could whistle at 2600hz and hang up the central opertator line. I
made a blue box for a friend but he got busted before he used it. He
was a greek with dual citizenship and had a girlfriend in Greece he
would call using a reel to reel tape with some prerecorded tones on
it. He got the idea from one of his greek buddies that was here
visiting that built a working blue box and recorded the tones and
their sequences on tape. The box was easy to build, all tin can 741
op amps on a self etched PC board. Problem was tuning it, I was only
17 back then and had no way to tune it. Said friend was set to take
it to school electronics class and tune it when the FBI hauled him
off one early morning in his boxer shorts He was deported back to
Greece and lost his US citizenship.


Even 'Dr. Johnny Fever' knew not to mess with the Phone Cops! ;-)

They found out in part by talking to his girlfriend. She explained that
he used a tape device. I stayed at his place the night before so i was
there at 6 am Sunday morning when they came a knockin on his door. I
was zipped up in a sleeping bag peering through an opening when he
answered the door (had a safety chain) opening it part way just enough
for an arm holding a gold badge to pop through I stayed in the bag
while they looked for a tape device which he didn't have there at the
time. They found a loop of tape on an Echoplex tape delay box for
guitar that he had and un-looped it with a pencil thinking they found
the evidence They asked him who was inside the sleeping bag and he
said just a friend and they never bothered me. He had hid the blue box
pretty well and it wasn't found because they found the tape quickly so
they were satisfied they had what they were looking for. When they left
I dug out the blue box and destroyed it. Since they really had no
evidence of a device that could make the calls but knowing the calls
came from his number back when he was living with his parents they
could only deport him and revoke his citizenship. He never went on
trial for the calls. Just was given a plane ticket and said see ya
later. They probably made it impossible to get a visa back into the
country since I never saw him again. But he did call me maybe 10 years
later from Greece. He said he was in a friends recording studio. That
was in 1982.


You're lucky it wasn't Scully & Mulder. They would have know where
it was, before the door was opened. ;-)

Bwahahahah I loved that show when it was on.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:19:53 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

N_Cook wrote:

So was that Allen Funt who televised the assignation between JFK and
Marilyn Munroe?


Yawn. Keep proving your stupidity. The President being shot to
death was a national tragedy. Maybe the next one will be in England, so
you can have an even bigger laugh. Maybe you'll get to roast
marshmallows at the wake.

I remember that day as well as I do 911. Us kids were having a 'circus'
in a neighbor's back yard. I went home to get something, forget what it
was, and my mom was ****ed off and crying and told me I couldn't have
what I wanted because the pres had just been shot. That was Nov 22 of 63
so we must have been experiencing global warming back then if it was warm
enough to play outside with normal clothing as I remember.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Aug 8, 4:46*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Am I on a hiding to nothing? trying to crack a device with unavailable
remote control, and no button functions to speak of.

Many universal remotes need to know what KIND of box
before the code search works. It helps to know the
corporate entity that built the box (for instance, TiVO
responds to Philips satellite converter box commands,
because some Philips satellite converters were TiVO
equipped). And some of my Apple computers responded
to (? Samsung or Goldstar) TV codes. It seems odd that TV
codes operated the FM radio in a desktop computer.

Grant wrote:

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 16:08:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:


N_Cook wrote:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
Got a few no-name URCs from UK Poundland "pound shop" , badged as
Signalex ,
81415, 10 in 1 . 1 GBP for all the functionality of a URC. This type you
can
set it to flicker away to itself until it reaches the end of a batch of
codes.
Removed the 3.58MHz resonator (why so apparently accurate?) .

That's the NTSC color carrier frequency. Not only were they made in the
billions over the years (every US/Canada/Japan, etc) color TV had one,
so did every VCR, and lots of other things.

I'm sure they will still be around for a while because while digital TV
has taken over in the US, it has not in the entire world and anything with
a composite video input or output needs one.

They became the defacto standard for things like telephone dialers,
and many things that needed about a 4mHz crystal because they were so
cheap
and plentyful.

One of the famous "blue boxes" (telephone hacking devices) was made by
taking a Radio Shack tone dialer and replacing the 1mHz crystal with a
3.58mHz one.


With 1.5V
pk-pk locked in with receiver over range 2.7 to 5.1M, and again about
300K
to 11M would operate using 1.5V. So far have only used with original
3.58M ,
6M and 7.5M sine inputs. Am I serendipitously likely to get a hit
somewhere, at least the unit on/off model recognition code if not
function
code plus the model code

So 2 out of 2 of these URC have been amenable to this mod but no match
to
the unit in question found so far. Is there any general guidelines for
makers to choose certain types/ranges of coding for different types of
equipment or is it totally open for them to choose? Assorted bits of kit
show at least partial responses to some of these off-spec codes, but not
my
target one so far.

Look up LIRC (Linux Ifrared Remote Control). There is a library of remote
codes, a way of capturing new ones from a remote and since the definitions
are in a text file, they are easy to "hack".

There are all sorts of input and output devices, if you have a PC with a
regular serial port (not USB), you can build a transmitter from the proper
plug, a resistor and an IR LED.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must
order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat
it. :-)

I was not aware of that frequency as being significant , the equivalent over
here is millions of 4.433619MHz and x2 of that , quartz crystals for Phase
Alternate Line. That would explain why it was Never The Same Color (twice)
if they could get away with using ceramic resonators rather than quartz.


Sigh. The ceramic resonators were used as a chroma trap. Quartz
crystals were used for the color reference. As far as 'Never The Same
Color', network programing was carried across the US on buried coaxial
cables or by microwave relays. Unlike tiny European countries, we
couldn't broadcast from a singe site. Because of this, they were video
amplifiers and equalizers spaced at regular intervals. Because it was
mostly tube, and there were thousands of them in each network they
required constant maintenance. When the network switched to a different
feed from a different studio, there was a phase difference. temperature
changes on the coax caused it's properties to change, as well. That was
why VIR and VITS were developed. It allowed for automatic equalization
to compensate for temperature changes, or when a signal had to be
rerouted. There were a lot of redundant paths, to allow for equipment
failures, or live remote feeds in the days before STL equipment. The
flexibility of the system was proven when Bell Telephone technicians
tied every TV station in the country together in a couple hours, to

allow full, live coverage of the assignation of President Kennedy. I
I thought he kept them secret? --'^^^^^^^^^^^ Freudian slip?

Wonderful what slips a careless spellcheck will show


Laugh all you want. My eyesight is very poor.

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:19:53 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

N_Cook wrote:

So was that Allen Funt who televised the assignation between JFK and
Marilyn Munroe?


Yawn. Keep proving your stupidity. The President being shot to
death was a national tragedy. Maybe the next one will be in England, so
you can have an even bigger laugh. Maybe you'll get to roast
marshmallows at the wake.

I remember that day as well as I do 911. Us kids were having a 'circus'
in a neighbor's back yard. I went home to get something, forget what it
was, and my mom was ****ed off and crying and told me I couldn't have
what I wanted because the pres had just been shot. That was Nov 22 of 63
so we must have been experiencing global warming back then if it was warm
enough to play outside with normal clothing as I remember.


No. Kids don't notice the cold, till they need at least three coats.

whit3rd wrote in message
...
On Aug 8, 4:46 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Am I on a hiding to nothing? trying to crack a device with unavailable
remote control, and no button functions to speak of.

Many universal remotes need to know what KIND of box
before the code search works. It helps to know the
corporate entity that built the box (for instance, TiVO
responds to Philips satellite converter box commands,
because some Philips satellite converters were TiVO
equipped). And some of my Apple computers responded
to (? Samsung or Goldstar) TV codes. It seems odd that TV
codes operated the FM radio in a desktop computer.

reply

There is a collation of a lot of useful background info links off this page,
I'm gradually wading through
http://www.educypedia.be/electronics/televisionrc5.htm
but linkages between makers seems a route to take.
But I still get the impression that types of kit whether air conditioners or
PVRs or whatever seem to have related structures of coding within the group
rather than by maker

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
In the UK we were deprived of Cap'n Crunch 2600 Hz whistles and the phone
routing system to go with it

I remember visiting the UK in 1984 and trying to call back to the US. The
only
way to do it was to call the long distance operator and place a request
for
your call. When your turn came up, they would call you back.

Trying to call from a pay phone at a rest stop on a motorway was a comedy
routine straight out of Monty Python. The operator needed the area code
and number of the phone I was calling from to place the call.

In those days, there were no area codes on the phones themselves nor was
there
any marking on the phone as to where I was or the exchange it was on.
All I knew was that I was at a rest stop a tour bus had made somewhere
between London and Bath.

Another time, I wantedto leave a message on an answering machine, as in
"look up the EUROPEAN size you want and I'll call you from Paris when I
can buy it". After ten minutes of standing at a pay phone in a B&B, the
oeprator finaly got through and as soon as he heard the recording, he
hung up.

Geoff.


In 1984 in the UK, you could direct dial any country in the world. I worked
for an American company then, and was on the phone to them in California
from our UK office virtually every day, as well as to our offices in France,
Germany and Holland, and customers in other countries. There were some
restrictions on direct dialling from payphones, and maybe trans-continental
was one of them, I don't remember for sure. If you could not find an area
code and exchange on a payphone, then either it was *extremely* badly
vandalised, or you weren't looking in the right place. Most had the phone
box's details, including geographical location, area code, number and
exchange, behind an armoured glass plate, mounted on the wall. The number
and area code should also have been on the phone itself, if it was a dialup
type, but this was admittedly often missing.

Arfa

Meat Plow wrote:
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:44:09 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

I could whistle at 2600hz and hang up the central opertator line. I
made a blue box for a friend but he got busted before he used it. He
was a greek with dual citizenship and had a girlfriend in Greece he
would call using a reel to reel tape with some prerecorded tones on it.
He got the idea from one of his greek buddies that was here visiting
that built a working blue box and recorded the tones and their
sequences on tape. The box was easy to build, all tin can 741 op amps
on a self etched PC board. Problem was tuning it, I was only 17 back
then and had no way to tune it. Said friend was set to take it to
school electronics class and tune it when the FBI hauled him off one
early morning in his boxer shorts He was deported back to Greece and
lost his US citizenship.


Even 'Dr. Johnny Fever' knew not to mess with the Phone Cops! ;-)

They found out in part by talking to his girlfriend. She explained that
he used a tape device. I stayed at his place the night before so i was
there at 6 am Sunday morning when they came a knockin on his door. I was
zipped up in a sleeping bag peering through an opening when he answered
the door (had a safety chain) opening it part way just enough for an arm
holding a gold badge to pop through I stayed in the bag while they
looked for a tape device which he didn't have there at the time. They
found a loop of tape on an Echoplex tape delay box for guitar that he had
and un-looped it with a pencil thinking they found the evidence They
asked him who was inside the sleeping bag and he said just a friend and
they never bothered me. He had hid the blue box pretty well and it wasn't
found because they found the tape quickly so they were satisfied they had
what they were looking for. When they left I dug out the blue box and
destroyed it. Since they really had no evidence of a device that could
make the calls but knowing the calls came from his number back when he
was living with his parents they could only deport him and revoke his
citizenship. He never went on trial for the calls. Just was given a plane
ticket and said see ya later. They probably made it impossible to get a
visa back into the country since I never saw him again. But he did call me
maybe 10 years later from Greece. He said he was in a friends recording
studio. That was in 1982.

that's amusing.

in the early 90s I recall red boxes still worked in some parts of Chicago.

You'd frequently get an operator who would ask something scripted like
"are you using an illegal dialing device?" and then they'd keep requesting
that you add quarter to the payphone.

They'd even ask you to "please wait by the phone" if you just kept jamming
on * and 6 or whatever the buttons were emulating a quarter.