I have a 2G iPod Touch, 8GB version. A few days ago, when iTunes told me
that there was new software available, I went ahead and downloaded it and
installed it to my Touch, as I always have before, without issue. The
installation went ok, and the unit seemed to still work ok. All my apps and
music had been reinstated to the device correctly. As of about 2am, when I
finished and went to bed, it was fully charged. However, when I next came to
use it around 18 hours later, the battery was totally rinsed. Not even
enough charge to turn on. Since then, I have confirmed that the standby
battery life has gone from days, to hours. Last night, I downloaded two
little apps that evaluate the state of charge of the battery. When it is
fully charged, both apps agree that it is, and that the standby time
available should be 300 hrs. I'm not sure that it has ever been good for
that much, but I would have said 200 anyway. One of the two apps also has a
system monitor, which tells you what routines are running, and how much
processor they are gobbling. I thought maybe the new OS4 was not fully
closing out apps when you exited them, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
It indicates around 97% idle processor, which seems reasonable considering
that it is running the app that is showing me this.

Has anyone else on here got a 2G that they've updated to OS4, and are having
similar problems ? Anyone got any ideas what is going on ? Looking on the
net, there would seem to be some issues, and a few people have mentioned
battery life problems that they didn't have before. A full "restore"
operation has been suggested. I tried that, but it bombed out half way
through with an "error" ... :-( It's also been suggested that you can
reload a previous firmware version, so another question. Does anyone know
what the last build number was, which is presumably what I had as I had
always done the updates as they became available ?

Don't you just hate it when something that's been working fine for a long
time, suddenly starts suffering issues as a result of an upgrade ... Just
to further muddy the waters, from lunchtime to a couple of hours ago, it
went from 100% charge to 50%. Now, in the last couple of hours, it doesn't
seem to have moved from 50%. I wonder if they are leaving the wifi
transmitter on, even when no app is running, and looking to use it. I guess
that might make short work of the battery, and wouldn't show as being any
kind of system task that was running. I might try manually switching off the
wifi to see if that has any effect.

Weights on the brain, weights on the brain, as my daughter is fond of saying
:-\

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't you just hate it when something that's been working
fine for a long time, suddenly starts suffering issues as
a result of an upgrade

Oh, heh, you Apple people. We've had that for decades with
Microsoft. About time you got on board.

Jeff



--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't you just hate it when something that's been working
fine for a long time, suddenly starts suffering issues as
a result of an upgrade

Oh, heh, you Apple people. We've had that for decades with
Microsoft. About time you got on board.

Jeff



How do you arrive at me being an "Apple person" , Jeff ??? :-\

Nothing could actually be further from the truth. I run exclusively Windoze
based machines for both home and business, as does the whole family, and am
well aware of the pitfalls of upgrades and patches. I have but one Apple
device - my iPod Touch - which I use for portable music, video and assorted
useful apps and games. I have been very happy with it, as has my wife, my
daughter and her husband with theirs. It has always done 'exactly as it says
on the can', and up until now, I have had no complaint with any aspect of
its workings, except perhaps with the fact that it needs to have a very
close relationship with its own copy of iTunes on its host machine. This
program is at best 'quirky', and takes some getting used to, but seems to
work pretty fair, once you get your head around it.

Anyways, bit of an update. Left another couple of hours, by this evening,
the indicated battery level was down at 30%. So without doing anything else,
I went into "settings", and turned off the wifi, then put it back to sleep,
and just left it for another two hours. Lo ! When I returned and checked it
again a few minutes ago, the battery level had crept back up to 45%, so it
looks like the wifi transmitter being continuously active, is the answer to
why it is rinsing the battery. So the next question is, have Apple done this
for some (in their mind) good reason - perhaps something to do with one of
the new 'features' in OS4 - or is it an oversight that they will correct
with a patch ? Perhaps 3Gs don't suffer. I understand that the machine
architecture is significantly different between the two.

Either way, I will now do some more checking by charging it right up, and
leaving the wifi switched off, and seeing if we are back to the original
battery life. A bit inconvenient, but I guess it will do for the time being,
until they produce a patch to correct it - if they do ...

Arfa

In article enSUn.23762$wi5.15312@hurricane,
Arfa Daily wrote:

Anyways, bit of an update. Left another couple of hours, by this evening,
the indicated battery level was down at 30%. So without doing anything else,
I went into "settings", and turned off the wifi, then put it back to sleep,
and just left it for another two hours. Lo ! When I returned and checked it
again a few minutes ago, the battery level had crept back up to 45%, so it
looks like the wifi transmitter being continuously active, is the answer to
why it is rinsing the battery. So the next question is, have Apple done this
for some (in their mind) good reason - perhaps something to do with one of
the new 'features' in OS4 - or is it an oversight that they will correct
with a patch ? Perhaps 3Gs don't suffer. I understand that the machine
architecture is significantly different between the two.

Seems odd, but... is there a chance that the "location services" were
enabled? On many devices running the Apple OS, "Assisted GPS" is used
to keep track of the current location: this can use a real GPS chip if
there's one on-board, or pull location information from the cellphone
system (if on-board and enabled), or [I gather] use the current WiFi
base station's to deduce location from the information Google gleaned
when they ran their Google Streets photo-cars around.

I wouldn't think that location services would normally be a feature
used on an iPod, but since this device uses the same OS as the
iPhones, perhaps the feature was turned on accidentally during the
upgrade, and your device was trying to figure out just where it is?

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:39:20 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Has anyone else on here got a 2G that they've updated to OS4, and are having
similar problems ?

Not me.

Is yours jailbroken or stock? If jailbroken, there's a possibility
that they may be problems. Too soon to tell.

I have an iPod Touch 2G (not jailbroken) and did the update Tues
evening. The only problem I had was that Google Calendar and Gmail
wouldn't work, because the Google servers were totally overloaded with
all the iOS 4 updates. If you're carrying a huge amount of Google
Apps data on your iPod Touch, it might have been set to push data
every 15 mins, failing, and retrying endlessly. It started working
today so I would suggest you give it a 2nd chance.




--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 16:08:51 -0500, Jeffrey D Angus
wrote:

Oh, heh, you Apple people. We've had that for decades with
Microsoft. About time you got on board.
Jeff

I wrote this in about 1995, in honor of the rather ugly and failure
prone Windoze 3.1 to Win 95 upgrade cerimony.

Ninety Five fits on my disk.
I read the docs, there is no risk.
Fully tested and well planned.
Just type the words that they command.
Answer questions one by one.
Are you sure? You're almost done.
Pull the CD from the slot.
It all worked fine, and thanks a lot.
But with a reboot and my dismay,
All my programs went away.

The other Jeff...

If only they would pay my time,
to write the docs in verse and rhyme.

Actually, all of my XP and Vista to Windoze 7 updates have gone very
smoothly. After the Vista botch, MS seems to have gotten a clue.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 01:03:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Perhaps 3Gs don't suffer.

There is no iPod Touch 3GS. Only the 3G.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod_touch
Also, it's iOS 4, not OS 4.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 17:21:37 -0700, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

I wouldn't think that location services would normally be a feature
used on an iPod, but since this device uses the same OS as the
iPhones, perhaps the feature was turned on accidentally during the
upgrade, and your device was trying to figure out just where it is?

There is no GPS in the iPod Touch. Also, no camera and no microphone.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...

In article enSUn.23762$wi5.15312@hurricane,
Arfa Daily wrote:

Anyways, bit of an update. Left another couple of hours, by this evening,
the indicated battery level was down at 30%. So without doing anything
else,
I went into "settings", and turned off the wifi, then put it back to
sleep,
and just left it for another two hours. Lo ! When I returned and checked
it
again a few minutes ago, the battery level had crept back up to 45%, so it
looks like the wifi transmitter being continuously active, is the answer
to
why it is rinsing the battery. So the next question is, have Apple done
this
for some (in their mind) good reason - perhaps something to do with one of
the new 'features' in OS4 - or is it an oversight that they will correct
with a patch ? Perhaps 3Gs don't suffer. I understand that the machine
architecture is significantly different between the two.

Seems odd, but... is there a chance that the "location services" were
enabled? On many devices running the Apple OS, "Assisted GPS" is used
to keep track of the current location: this can use a real GPS chip if
there's one on-board, or pull location information from the cellphone
system (if on-board and enabled), or [I gather] use the current WiFi
base station's to deduce location from the information Google gleaned
when they ran their Google Streets photo-cars around.

I wouldn't think that location services would normally be a feature
used on an iPod, but since this device uses the same OS as the
iPhones, perhaps the feature was turned on accidentally during the
upgrade, and your device was trying to figure out just where it is?

--
Dave Platt AE6EO

Interesting you say that, Dave. I have The Weather Channel desktop
application on it, and that does make use of location services, via the
wifi. I did have a look at that last night, and it was turned on, so I set
it to off, so together with switching the wifi itself off for the test,
that makes it sort of doubly disabled. If the battery holds up normally
today, I will try switching the wifi back on tomorrow, but leave the
location services off. Thanks for the suggestion.

Arfa

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 01:03:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Perhaps 3Gs don't suffer.

There is no iPod Touch 3GS. Only the 3G.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod_touch
Also, it's iOS 4, not OS 4.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Ah, I see you haven't taken your anti-pedant meds today Jeff ! :-)

I was of course, referring to the 3G iPod in the plural - as in "three
gees", which would be why I used a small "s". As to the name of the
software, it was OS4 I believe, until they publicly released it a few days
ago, when it became "iOS4", which is more cumbersome to type. I knew what I
meant. You apparently knew what I meant. Everyone else knew what I meant ...

Arfa

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:39:20 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Has anyone else on here got a 2G that they've updated to OS4, and are
having
similar problems ?

Not me.

Is yours jailbroken or stock? If jailbroken, there's a possibility
that they may be problems. Too soon to tell.

I have an iPod Touch 2G (not jailbroken) and did the update Tues
evening. The only problem I had was that Google Calendar and Gmail
wouldn't work, because the Google servers were totally overloaded with
all the iOS 4 updates. If you're carrying a huge amount of Google
Apps data on your iPod Touch, it might have been set to push data
every 15 mins, failing, and retrying endlessly. It started working
today so I would suggest you give it a 2nd chance.




--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Not jailbroken. Just off-the-shelf vanilla. Has mostly just music on it.
Some third party games and apps, some paid for, some freebies. Most have
been on there for a long time, with the exception of a game I put on there
last week called "wake the box". It's a lot of fun - try it. My wife has the
same app, and she does not seem to be suffering this battery problem, so I
don't think it's that. Anyway, it makes no use of the 'net or location
services, and doesn't seem to leave anything behind and running when you
exit, according to the system monitor utility that I put on there (after the
problem started occurring, so not being caused by that app either).

I don't knowingly have huge amounts - if indeed any - Google Apps on it.
Although thinking about it, I do have Google Earth, but it hasn't been
opened since the update.

For the moment, I'm going to leave the wifi and location services switched
off, and see what happens. If that is ok, then I will put the wifi back on,
and see how it goes then, and report back.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

Has anyone else on here got a 2G that they've updated to OS4, and are having
similar problems ? Anyone got any ideas what is going on ? Looking on the
net, there would seem to be some issues, and a few people have mentioned
battery life problems that they didn't have before. A full "restore"
operation has been suggested. I tried that, but it bombed out half way
through with an "error" ... :-( It's also been suggested that you can
reload a previous firmware version, so another question. Does anyone know
what the last build number was, which is presumably what I had as I had
always done the updates as they became available ?

I updated mine (2g 16gb ipod) but don't seem to have a battery problem.

One thing I did notice after the update, check Settings - Notifications and
make sure that is off. If enabled, it will keep the wifi always on, even
when sleeping. I never used that push notification stuff and always had it
off, seems like after the update, it was enabled by default.

That error with the backup/restore is a common story, seems like a lot of
people ran into it, including myself. The apps and settings (including mail
and wifi) all were intact but lost all the music, playlists and videos. Plus
it took an abnormal amount of time to end up in a crash/error, better than 3
hours.

I don't think you can go back to 3.1.2 or 3.1.3, even if you find the ipsw,
apple isn't "signing" them to be installed.

The main comment I wanted to make was, it just could be a battery fail
problem. 3 people I know with the iPods (two 3rd gen, one 2nd) within the
last year, meaning the two within 4-6 months of purchase, the battery just
failed on them. They charge it overnight, next morning it only has like
20-30%, goes empty in 15 minutes. If it's within the one year warranty,
apple will swap it out with a new unit, if you do the song and dance to make
an appointment for the "genius bar".

There wasn't any warning with any of them, just fails instantly.

-bruce

"Bruce Esquibel" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

Has anyone else on here got a 2G that they've updated to OS4, and are
having
similar problems ? Anyone got any ideas what is going on ? Looking on the
net, there would seem to be some issues, and a few people have mentioned
battery life problems that they didn't have before. A full "restore"
operation has been suggested. I tried that, but it bombed out half way
through with an "error" ... :-( It's also been suggested that you can
reload a previous firmware version, so another question. Does anyone know
what the last build number was, which is presumably what I had as I had
always done the updates as they became available ?

I updated mine (2g 16gb ipod) but don't seem to have a battery problem.

One thing I did notice after the update, check Settings - Notifications
and
make sure that is off. If enabled, it will keep the wifi always on, even
when sleeping. I never used that push notification stuff and always had it
off, seems like after the update, it was enabled by default.

That error with the backup/restore is a common story, seems like a lot of
people ran into it, including myself. The apps and settings (including
mail
and wifi) all were intact but lost all the music, playlists and videos.
Plus
it took an abnormal amount of time to end up in a crash/error, better than
3
hours.

I don't think you can go back to 3.1.2 or 3.1.3, even if you find the
ipsw,
apple isn't "signing" them to be installed.

The main comment I wanted to make was, it just could be a battery fail
problem. 3 people I know with the iPods (two 3rd gen, one 2nd) within the
last year, meaning the two within 4-6 months of purchase, the battery just
failed on them. They charge it overnight, next morning it only has like
20-30%, goes empty in 15 minutes. If it's within the one year warranty,
apple will swap it out with a new unit, if you do the song and dance to
make
an appointment for the "genius bar".

There wasn't any warning with any of them, just fails instantly.

-bruce


Thanks for all the info Bruce. I will look into the "notifications" thing.
So far, 6 hours after it came off charge, it's still reading 100%, which is
how it was before the upgrade, so I definitely think that it is a wifi
issue, and not the battery itself. The annoying thing is, that there is very
little new functionality in iOS 4 that is runnable on a 2G, and some things
that actually no longer work as they did. It's a pity that when iTunes
informs you that there is new software available, it doesn't then make it
clear that if you are below a 3G device, you might want to opt to just leave
everything as it is. About the only new thing I can see, is being able to
bundle apps into desktop folders. Well, I've lived without that since I've
had it, and I doubt that I'll be using it now ...

Arfa

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:44:54 +0100, Arfa Daily �ʇoɹ�:

"Bruce Esquibel" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

Has anyone else on here got a 2G that they've updated to OS4, and are
having
similar problems ? Anyone got any ideas what is going on ? Looking on
the net, there would seem to be some issues, and a few people have
mentioned battery life problems that they didn't have before. A full
"restore" operation has been suggested. I tried that, but it bombed
out half way through with an "error" ... :-( It's also been
suggested that you can reload a previous firmware version, so another
question. Does anyone know what the last build number was, which is
presumably what I had as I had always done the updates as they became
available ?

I updated mine (2g 16gb ipod) but don't seem to have a battery problem.

One thing I did notice after the update, check Settings -
Notifications and
make sure that is off. If enabled, it will keep the wifi always on,
even when sleeping. I never used that push notification stuff and
always had it off, seems like after the update, it was enabled by
default.

That error with the backup/restore is a common story, seems like a lot
of people ran into it, including myself. The apps and settings
(including mail
and wifi) all were intact but lost all the music, playlists and videos.
Plus
it took an abnormal amount of time to end up in a crash/error, better
than 3
hours.

I don't think you can go back to 3.1.2 or 3.1.3, even if you find the
ipsw,
apple isn't "signing" them to be installed.

The main comment I wanted to make was, it just could be a battery fail
problem. 3 people I know with the iPods (two 3rd gen, one 2nd) within
the last year, meaning the two within 4-6 months of purchase, the
battery just failed on them. They charge it overnight, next morning it
only has like 20-30%, goes empty in 15 minutes. If it's within the one
year warranty, apple will swap it out with a new unit, if you do the
song and dance to make
an appointment for the "genius bar".

There wasn't any warning with any of them, just fails instantly.

-bruce


Thanks for all the info Bruce. I will look into the "notifications"
thing. So far, 6 hours after it came off charge, it's still reading
100%, which is how it was before the upgrade, so I definitely think that
it is a wifi issue, and not the battery itself. The annoying thing is,
that there is very little new functionality in iOS 4 that is runnable on
a 2G, and some things that actually no longer work as they did. It's a
pity that when iTunes informs you that there is new software available,
it doesn't then make it clear that if you are below a 3G device, you
might want to opt to just leave everything as it is. About the only new
thing I can see, is being able to bundle apps into desktop folders.
Well, I've lived without that since I've had it, and I doubt that I'll
be using it now ...

Arfa

I had a similar situation with my Blackberry. When they updated the OS
the bluetooth suddenly ate the battery in about 10 hours. Before the
phone could go for a week on standby. So I ended up disabling the BT
until needed. About 3 months passed and there was a software update that
addressed the BT issue and it worked. I was screwing around with my
sister's ITouch yesterday. Nice little unit for sure. But now I own a
Dell Mini and no longer desire an ITouch for myself. I wouldn't have been
happy with something that was only half a computer anyway.

Arfa Daily wrote:


"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't you just hate it when something that's been working
fine for a long time, suddenly starts suffering issues as
a result of an upgrade

Oh, heh, you Apple people. We've had that for decades with
Microsoft. About time you got on board.

Jeff



How do you arrive at me being an "Apple person" , Jeff ??? :-\

Apple OS4 on 2G Touch.
Isn't that an Apple product running Apple software, or did
they sub that out to Microsoft? ;-)

Jeff

--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

In article ,
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I wrote this in about 1995, in honor of the rather ugly and failure
prone Windoze 3.1 to Win 95 upgrade cerimony.

#chuckle# Nicely done!

I remember the Doonesbury strips on that subject...

"It's printing out a list of demands... it's dissing my machine!"

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:


"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't you just hate it when something that's been working
fine for a long time, suddenly starts suffering issues as
a result of an upgrade

Oh, heh, you Apple people. We've had that for decades with
Microsoft. About time you got on board.

Jeff



How do you arrive at me being an "Apple person" , Jeff ??? :-\

Apple OS4 on 2G Touch.
Isn't that an Apple product running Apple software, or did
they sub that out to Microsoft? ;-)

Jeff



Well, yeah, I suppose that is one product that I happen to own, but it's a
bit of a leap from there to making me an "Apple person", isn't it ? ...

Arfa

snip

I had a similar situation with my Blackberry. When they updated the OS
the bluetooth suddenly ate the battery in about 10 hours. Before the
phone could go for a week on standby. So I ended up disabling the BT
until needed. About 3 months passed and there was a software update that
addressed the BT issue and it worked. I was screwing around with my
sister's ITouch yesterday. Nice little unit for sure. But now I own a
Dell Mini and no longer desire an ITouch for myself. I wouldn't have been
happy with something that was only half a computer anyway.

Well, I reckon that I've just about got it pinned down now. Unit idled
asleep all day, and battery went down about 2% or so, so that was back to
normal. So this evening, I turned the wifi back on, and connected to the TV
news site that I use, then exited that app, connected to the iTunes store
and had a little browse, then exited that app. I then left the unit for
another couple of hours, and rechecked. The battery was just as I had left
it, so the wifi had correctly gone back to sleep, when the online apps were
exited. A while ago, I started up The Weather Channel desktop app, which I
suspect is at the bottom of the trouble, and accessed some data. Now this
app asks for permission to determine your location, via the 'net, by making
use of the router data that Google have stolen from you, as they drove past
your house with their camcars.. I usually just let the app go ahead and do
this. Tonight, it had a bit of a cry that it couldn't ask me, because
"Location Services" were turned off on the iPod. Having looked at a weather
forecast, I exited the app, and again, all seems to be well.

So, I'm now pretty sure that the issue is to do with this location
determining malarky. If for whatever reason, it doesn't manage to complete
the operation, it looks as though it keeps trying, which would be fair
enough whilst the app is running. To be honest, I don't know if this has
ever worked, because I don't actually know why the app needs to know where I
am. Assuming that it doesn't complete, and keeps trying, it looks as though
with iOS 4, the operation doesn't get cancelled when you exit the app, so
the wifi transmitter stays active, rinsing your battery in a few hours.
Presumably, this is an oversight / bug in iOS 4 that the previous version
didn't have. I can't see any reason for the wifi transmitter staying active
after an app has been dumped. As soon as you exit, any wifi activity
associated with the app, should be immediately tidied up, and dropped.

I think that for the moment, I'm just going to keep location services shut
off, and if I load up any apps that definitely need it, decide on a per use
basis whether to re-enable it.

Arfa

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:21:15 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Not jailbroken. Just off-the-shelf vanilla.

So much for that theory.

I don't knowingly have huge amounts - if indeed any - Google Apps on it.
Although thinking about it, I do have Google Earth, but it hasn't been
opened since the update.

Google Earth should not cause problems. It's only Google Mail and
possibly Calendar that might need to sync huge amounts of data.

For the moment, I'm going to leave the wifi and location services switched
off, and see what happens. If that is ok, then I will put the wifi back on,
and see how it goes then, and report back.

iPhone and iPod touch: Understanding Location Services
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1975

The iPod Touch does NOT have GPS or 3G data. However, it can use
Wi-Fi to obtain locations. I usually leave location services off on
mine to save electrons. I just turned it on, fired up Google Maps
while indoors, and it found me within about 300ft. Nice. However,
there's no additional drain other than Wi-Fi. When the iPod Touch
goes to snooze, the Wi-Fi goes into standby. I don't think this is
the source of your mystery discharge.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:51:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

iPhone and iPod touch: Understanding Location Services
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1975

Incidentally, the iPhone and iPod Touch Wi-Fi based location services
uses Skyhook:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com
which uses a database of known wi-fi access points. It found my
office location because I had registered my access point long ago.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:21:15 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Not jailbroken. Just off-the-shelf vanilla.

So much for that theory.

I don't knowingly have huge amounts - if indeed any - Google Apps on it.
Although thinking about it, I do have Google Earth, but it hasn't been
opened since the update.

Google Earth should not cause problems. It's only Google Mail and
possibly Calendar that might need to sync huge amounts of data.

For the moment, I'm going to leave the wifi and location services switched
off, and see what happens. If that is ok, then I will put the wifi back
on,
and see how it goes then, and report back.

iPhone and iPod touch: Understanding Location Services
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1975

The iPod Touch does NOT have GPS or 3G data. However, it can use
Wi-Fi to obtain locations. I usually leave location services off on
mine to save electrons. I just turned it on, fired up Google Maps
while indoors, and it found me within about 300ft. Nice. However,
there's no additional drain other than Wi-Fi. When the iPod Touch
goes to snooze, the Wi-Fi goes into standby. I don't think this is
the source of your mystery discharge.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060


Agreed, the wifi *should* go to standby when the iPod sleeps, and I'm sure
that it did with the previous version of software that was on the device,
but I'm not yet convinced that it is doing so correctly, with iOS 4, so at
the moment, I'm still checking battery drain with various settings on or
off, and the jury is still out on this one ...

Arfa

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:51:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

iPhone and iPod touch: Understanding Location Services
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1975

Incidentally, the iPhone and iPod Touch Wi-Fi based location services
uses Skyhook:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com
which uses a database of known wi-fi access points. It found my
office location because I had registered my access point long ago.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060


I think you'll find that Google know about an awful lot more wireless access
points, than just ones that have been registered. There's recently been a
big privacy hoo-hah over here regarding the fact that when Google drove
their camcars round every street in the country, as well as taking pictures,
they also continuously sniffed wireless access points, and logged their
locations, and every bit of data they could gather from them.

Big Brother cometh, or what ...

Arfa

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 01:16:20 +0100, Arfa Daily �ʇoɹ�:

snip

I had a similar situation with my Blackberry. When they updated the OS
the bluetooth suddenly ate the battery in about 10 hours. Before the
phone could go for a week on standby. So I ended up disabling the BT
until needed. About 3 months passed and there was a software update
that addressed the BT issue and it worked. I was screwing around with
my sister's ITouch yesterday. Nice little unit for sure. But now I own
a Dell Mini and no longer desire an ITouch for myself. I wouldn't have
been happy with something that was only half a computer anyway.

Well, I reckon that I've just about got it pinned down now. Unit idled
asleep all day, and battery went down about 2% or so, so that was back
to normal. So this evening, I turned the wifi back on, and connected to
the TV news site that I use, then exited that app, connected to the
iTunes store and had a little browse, then exited that app. I then left
the unit for another couple of hours, and rechecked. The battery was
just as I had left it, so the wifi had correctly gone back to sleep,
when the online apps were exited. A while ago, I started up The Weather
Channel desktop app, which I suspect is at the bottom of the trouble,
and accessed some data. Now this app asks for permission to determine
your location, via the 'net, by making use of the router data that
Google have stolen from you, as they drove past your house with their
camcars.. I usually just let the app go ahead and do this. Tonight, it
had a bit of a cry that it couldn't ask me, because "Location Services"
were turned off on the iPod. Having looked at a weather forecast, I
exited the app, and again, all seems to be well.

So, I'm now pretty sure that the issue is to do with this location
determining malarky. If for whatever reason, it doesn't manage to
complete the operation, it looks as though it keeps trying, which would
be fair enough whilst the app is running. To be honest, I don't know if
this has ever worked, because I don't actually know why the app needs to
know where I am. Assuming that it doesn't complete, and keeps trying, it
looks as though with iOS 4, the operation doesn't get cancelled when you
exit the app, so the wifi transmitter stays active, rinsing your battery
in a few hours. Presumably, this is an oversight / bug in iOS 4 that the
previous version didn't have. I can't see any reason for the wifi
transmitter staying active after an app has been dumped. As soon as you
exit, any wifi activity associated with the app, should be immediately
tidied up, and dropped.

I think that for the moment, I'm just going to keep location services
shut off, and if I load up any apps that definitely need it, decide on a
per use basis whether to re-enable it.


Looks as you've isolated it. I disable BT on my phones unless needed.
Makes a significant enough impact on idle time to do so. Disabling the
wifi on my Dell Mini gives me roughly 30% more battery life. I often take
it with me when I go looking for things to photograph. Pull the SDHC card
from the camera and insert into the Mini and review them. Don't need
radios rinsing the battery when I'm out in the middle of nowhere. And I
often ride the Harley when I go nature photogging No cig lighter power
supply on it.

Looks as you've isolated it. I disable BT on my phones unless needed.
Makes a significant enough impact on idle time to do so. Disabling the
wifi on my Dell Mini gives me roughly 30% more battery life. I often take
it with me when I go looking for things to photograph. Pull the SDHC card
from the camera and insert into the Mini and review them. Don't need
radios rinsing the battery when I'm out in the middle of nowhere. And I
often ride the Harley when I go nature photogging No cig lighter power
supply on it.


I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it was
"Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have wifi set
back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything is just fine.
Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch "Notifications"
back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue what it is for, and
I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or even actually there ?? in
the previous version of OS that was installed before the iOS 4 upgrade.
Anyway there is no problem with operation or battery with it off, so off it
will stay ... :-)

Arfa

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:31:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it was
"Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have wifi set
back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything is just fine.
Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch "Notifications"
back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue what it is for, and
I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or even actually there ?? in
the previous version of OS that was installed before the iOS 4 upgrade.
Anyway there is no problem with operation or battery with it off, so off it
will stay ... :-)

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
Push Notifications are messages from applications that go merrily out
to the internet to see if there's anything worth bugging you about.
The notifications can appear BEFORE you smear the screen with "slide
to unlock". Under Nofifications, I have eTrade and eBay notifications
enabled on mine. I get plenty of notifications from both of these
apps.

However, it doesn't kill my battery. I leave 15 minute Notifications
on continuously, and my battery level is roughly where I left it the
previous night. No unusual drain from Notifications that I can see
and I have a rather old battery.

If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then
turn it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to
bug you when appropriate, leave it on.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:54:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann �ʇoɹ�:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:31:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it
was "Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have
wifi set back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything
is just fine. Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch
"Notifications" back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue
what it is for, and I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or
even actually there ?? in the previous version of OS that was installed
before the iOS 4 upgrade. Anyway there is no problem with operation or
battery with it off, so off it will stay ... :-)

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
Push Notifications are messages from applications that go merrily out to
the internet to see if there's anything worth bugging you about. The
notifications can appear BEFORE you smear the screen with "slide to
unlock". Under Nofifications, I have eTrade and eBay notifications
enabled on mine. I get plenty of notifications from both of these apps.

However, it doesn't kill my battery. I leave 15 minute Notifications on
continuously, and my battery level is roughly where I left it the
previous night. No unusual drain from Notifications that I can see and
I have a rather old battery.

If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then turn
it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to bug you
when appropriate, leave it on.

Wonder why these would 'rinse' Arf's battery and not yours?

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:39:12 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
(...)
If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then turn
it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to bug you
when appropriate, leave it on.

Wonder why these would 'rinse' Arf's battery and not yours?

Why? It's an Apple product. It's so intuitive and easy, you don't
need to know why.

I ran a crude test last night. At midnight, my iPod Touch 2G showed
97% battery charge (using iSystemPro). 9 hrs later, it's at 89%.
Notification is set to check my stocks and eBay items every 15 minutes
via Wi-Fi.

Here's another app to help run the battery down:
https://www.ihoundsoftware.com/ihound/template/iPhone.vm
Much like LoJack for iPod Touch, iPad, etc. I just installed it.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:54:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann �ʇoɹ�:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:31:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it
was "Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have
wifi set back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything
is just fine. Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch
"Notifications" back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue
what it is for, and I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or
even actually there ?? in the previous version of OS that was installed
before the iOS 4 upgrade. Anyway there is no problem with operation or
battery with it off, so off it will stay ... :-)

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
Push Notifications are messages from applications that go merrily out to
the internet to see if there's anything worth bugging you about. The
notifications can appear BEFORE you smear the screen with "slide to
unlock". Under Nofifications, I have eTrade and eBay notifications
enabled on mine. I get plenty of notifications from both of these apps.

However, it doesn't kill my battery. I leave 15 minute Notifications on
continuously, and my battery level is roughly where I left it the
previous night. No unusual drain from Notifications that I can see and
I have a rather old battery.

If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then turn
it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to bug you
when appropriate, leave it on.

Wonder why these would 'rinse' Arf's battery and not yours?

Yes, it's odd, but it is definitely the cause. There was one app listed,
which is a Caesars Las Vegas 'in house' thing. I don't recall it ever having
told me anything though. It's been on my Touch for a long time, and has
never caused a problem in the past. It's not an app that I use anyway, so
maybe I'll just remove it .

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

Yes, it's odd, but it is definitely the cause. There was one app listed,
which is a Caesars Las Vegas 'in house' thing. I don't recall it ever having
told me anything though. It's been on my Touch for a long time, and has
never caused a problem in the past. It's not an app that I use anyway, so
maybe I'll just remove it .

Time will tell but it's either a bug or a feature in ios4.

That push notification stuff came in with one of the 3.x updates, but like
you, never saw any useful using it, at least on the ipod touch. I had about
8 or 9 apps that had push in them but only one would randomly get a message.

But the behavior with the wifi when it's sleeping is changed with the 4 from
the 3.x stuff.

I noticed it because the router I use for the dsl has a separate "wireless"
light on it, comes on when someone is using wifi. We only have two wifi
devices, the wifes laptop and my iPod.

The morning after the ios4 came out I noticed first thing the light was on,
still on an hour later. Checked and her stuff was packed away, she was
sleeping. The ipod was in sleep mode.

I took a quick look at the local network map on the router and sure enough,
it showed the ipod active and on the wifi, nothing else. Turned it off, the
wifi light goes dark.

Hmmm.

Turning off the push stuff made things go back to the old behavior, ipod
sleeps, the wifi light stays off on the router. If it comes up once in a
while, I don't know, never noticed it.

Only thing I can figure is, with the 3.x if the ipod is sleeping, you just
wouldn't of received push notifications. Maybe now you do with the ios4.
Even with it sleeping, it keeps the wifi in a listening mode or something.

-bruce

"Bruce Esquibel" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

Yes, it's odd, but it is definitely the cause. There was one app listed,
which is a Caesars Las Vegas 'in house' thing. I don't recall it ever
having
told me anything though. It's been on my Touch for a long time, and has
never caused a problem in the past. It's not an app that I use anyway, so
maybe I'll just remove it .

Time will tell but it's either a bug or a feature in ios4.

That push notification stuff came in with one of the 3.x updates, but like
you, never saw any useful using it, at least on the ipod touch. I had
about
8 or 9 apps that had push in them but only one would randomly get a
message.

But the behavior with the wifi when it's sleeping is changed with the 4
from
the 3.x stuff.

I noticed it because the router I use for the dsl has a separate
"wireless"
light on it, comes on when someone is using wifi. We only have two wifi
devices, the wifes laptop and my iPod.

The morning after the ios4 came out I noticed first thing the light was
on,
still on an hour later. Checked and her stuff was packed away, she was
sleeping. The ipod was in sleep mode.

I took a quick look at the local network map on the router and sure
enough,
it showed the ipod active and on the wifi, nothing else. Turned it off,
the
wifi light goes dark.

Hmmm.

Turning off the push stuff made things go back to the old behavior, ipod
sleeps, the wifi light stays off on the router. If it comes up once in a
while, I don't know, never noticed it.

Only thing I can figure is, with the 3.x if the ipod is sleeping, you just
wouldn't of received push notifications. Maybe now you do with the ios4.
Even with it sleeping, it keeps the wifi in a listening mode or something.

-bruce


Hmmm. Your experience would seem to mirror mine then. I too noticed a lot of
wifi activity on my router, but I have all sorts of machines connected
wirelessly, and they are forever doing things in the background, so I never
took too much notice of it. Anyway, seems like we've both found the cause of
the problem, and the fact that it is dependant on apps that want to use the
facility, would possibly explain why some iPod Touches are suffering, and
some are not. My wife's is identical to mine, but she has not had the
problem since updating. I checked the Notifications on hers, and nothing
showed as wanting use of the facility. I shut it off anyway though, as she
is a bugger for downloading free games from the Apple store ... :-)

Arfa

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I ran a crude test last night. At midnight, my iPod Touch 2G showed
97% battery charge (using iSystemPro). 9 hrs later, it's at 89%.
Notification is set to check my stocks and eBay items every 15 minutes
via Wi-Fi.

Here's another app to help run the battery down:
https://www.ihoundsoftware.com/ihound/template/iPhone.vm
Much like LoJack for iPod Touch, iPad, etc. I just installed it.

Argh. I installed iHound to send their server my location every 10
minutes. The default was 3 minutes. I left iHound running overnight.
The battery went from 97% to 32%. Ouch.

I don't think it's Notifications that are sucking the battery power.
Methinks the problem is leaving an application running that uses
notifications or just CPU cycles when the iPod Touch is in standby. I
usually display the desktop before turning off (actually standby)
mine, so I haven't had much experience with what an application can do
to the battery level if left running.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I ran a crude test last night. At midnight, my iPod Touch 2G showed
97% battery charge (using iSystemPro). 9 hrs later, it's at 89%.
Notification is set to check my stocks and eBay items every 15 minutes
via Wi-Fi.

Here's another app to help run the battery down:
https://www.ihoundsoftware.com/ihound/template/iPhone.vm
Much like LoJack for iPod Touch, iPad, etc. I just installed it.

Argh. I installed iHound to send their server my location every 10
minutes. The default was 3 minutes. I left iHound running overnight.
The battery went from 97% to 32%. Ouch.

I don't think it's Notifications that are sucking the battery power.
Methinks the problem is leaving an application running that uses
notifications or just CPU cycles when the iPod Touch is in standby. I
usually display the desktop before turning off (actually standby)
mine, so I haven't had much experience with what an application can do
to the battery level if left running.

--
Jeff Liebermann


No apps were running to the best of my knowledge, when the problem was
occurring. I installed an app that monitors the system processes, as well as
a lot of other things like the battery, and checked what the state of play
was before putting it to sleep. It showed the processor as being (typically)
96 - 97% idle. There was one app that *wanted* notifications access, but the
app was not running - or at least it wasn't running in the foreground.
Nothing had changed with this app or the way it was loaded, and it had not
caused a problem before. Maybe iOS 4 gives it what it wants in the
background. I guess this may be a bug, and because of that keeps the wifi
running pretty much continuously. I don't know where in the unit the wifi
module is located, but certainly, the back of the case was warm enough to
just about feel, up near the top. It never had been before, and isn't again
now.

I have actually deleted the app that wanted notifications access now, so it
might be an interesting experiment to turn notifications back on. I guess I
could also wave the unit at my spec anny, and see if there is any obvious
wifi activity from it, when it's asleep.

Arfa

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 01:23:13 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

No apps were running to the best of my knowledge, when the problem was
occurring.

So much for that theory.

I installed an app that monitors the system processes, as well as
a lot of other things like the battery, and checked what the state of play
was before putting it to sleep. It showed the processor as being (typically)
96 - 97% idle.

That's what you'll usually see. The iPod Touch does not support
(much) multitasking (thank you Apple) so the only application that's
really able to run has to be in the forground and running. An
application can be installed, but unless it has Steve Jobs personal
permission to run in the background, it's not going to burn any CPU
cycles.

I don't know where in the unit the wifi
module is located, but certainly, the back of the case was warm enough to
just about feel, up near the top. It never had been before, and isn't again
now.

Looking inside:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-Touch-2nd-Generation/586/1
the wi-fi chip is near the top, next to the antenna:
http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/a11UeKjfQfuIIrHD.huge
next to the gold test coax connector. Mouse over the Broadcom chip in
the right hand photo above the "Step 10" label.

I have actually deleted the app that wanted notifications access now, so it
might be an interesting experiment to turn notifications back on. I guess I
could also wave the unit at my spec anny, and see if there is any obvious
wifi activity from it, when it's asleep.

A passive Wi-Fi sniffer (Kismet) might show more. Spread Spectrum is
difficult to see on an SA. If Notification is on, you should see some
traffic when it wakes up. However, if you REALLY want to run the
battery down, turn off you wireless router at night. The iPod Touch
will try to find something with which to connect. Not finding any
open access points, it will go through the list of SSID's heard, thus
taking more time, and much more battery power.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558