My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I found http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=ANTINST but
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione

wrote:

My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

Why a roof-top antenna? Several good indoor antennas are made that
should work in your situation.

On 08/08/2008 12:13 PM, sent:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I found http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=ANTINST but
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione

Hello Michael:

All DTV signals, come February 17, 2009, will still mostly originate
almost 20 miles NNE of Huntington Park. "UCLANs" suggestion is a very
good way of seeing if you could get acceptable reception now while you
can still test various ideas.

If your GF aunt's home(s) have an attic, perhaps a very good VHF/UHF
combination could be tried.

The antenna installers know the market, and that not much time is
left, so the prices will be premium. So - maybe it's time the aunts
gave some thought to cable or satellite TV.

The below URL is a very interesting site to explo

http://www.antennaweb.org/

Best wishes to you.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:36:14 -0700, UCLAN wrote:

wrote:

My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

Why a roof-top antenna? Several good indoor antennas are made that
should work in your situation.

Several indoor antennas work significantly better that rabbit ears?
I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

The lowest cost outdoor rooftop antenna will greatly outperform the
best indoor antenna.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

The below are all cheap outside vhf/uhf/fm antennas. They get their
gain by being directional. Compared to inside antennas they have
height gain and a much less obstructed view of the desired signal.
Hopefully the stations you are interested in are in the same direction
so that a rotor would not be required.

Wineguard and Channelmaster are the two dominant players
as far as TV antennas go.


http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=ANCM2001

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=ANCM3014

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=ANC3016

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=SPR7032

Installation of such a small antenna should be a breeze. Just
determine where you want to mount it. Among your choices of
mounting hardware is a mast pipe( required) A small tripod, a
side wall mount ect.

You also need transmission cable. The best choice would be a 300 ohm
to 75 ohm outside transformer/balun mounted at the antenna so that
you could run 75 ohm coax to the TV.

This antenna complete with universal mount and amplifier may be all
you need if the broadcasters are close enough.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...om=Large#xview

On 08/08/2008 12:13 PM, sent:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I found http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=ANTINST but
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione

Please try to tell us something about the aunt's home(s) location with
regards to nearby outdoors obstacles. Are there nearby high trees,
buildings or structures that will interfere with the signal path?
Would a possible outdoor installation have a fairly clear path to the
NNE?

Have you installed the DTV converter box? If so, what have the
results been? How many feet of lead-in cable would be needed between
the exterior antenna and the furthest DTV converter box? Putting a
weakened high channel UHF station through 75 Ohm coaxial cable can
lead to a disappointing result. However, I do it at home with a Radio
Shack VU-190 XR, but I have a fairly short (40 feet) cable run to my
home's VHF/UHF distribution amplifier.

Remember not to be influenced by anything describing an antenna that
says it's been optimized for DTV or HDTV. R.F. is R.F., period.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

What about installing an antenna in the attic? Reception might be slightly
worse when it rains, but installation will be a heck of a lot simpler -- and
safer.

--- The Lady from Philadelphia

On Aug 8, 2:13*pm, wrote:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I foundhttp://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINSTbut
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione

It would help if you told us where Huntington Park is , what state,
how far from the transmitters, etc.

On 08/08/2008 06:21 PM, hr(bob) sent:
On Aug 8, 2:13 pm, wrote:
My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.

I foundhttp://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINSTbut
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.

Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.

Best regards,
Michael Scipione

It would help if you told us where Huntington Park is , what state,
how far from the transmitters, etc.

Hello Bob:

Hunting Park is a community of Los Angles County. Huntington Park is
approximately 19 to 20 miles SSW of most of the Los Angeles area's
transmitter sites. I dug this out of the OP post. Santa Monica + the
OP's IP gave it up. Plus, it doesn't hurt to live in California and
have about half a dozen relatives near the OP.

Top of the day to you.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 12:13:37 -0700, michaelscipione33 wrote:

My girlfriend has two aunts in Huntington Park. They live in an older
home and need a TV antenna installed to get TV reception. The bunny
ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed.

I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or
bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in
concrete would be better.

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.

I've built one from scrap wood with heavy copper wire for the elements and
aluminum foil for a reflector. I have it installed in an attic like
position above a kitchen. I am receiving a channel 32 station 23 miles
away with no problems.

hth,

kw


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http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

wrote:

Several indoor antennas work significantly better that rabbit ears?
I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

I disagree, strongly. Read some opinions on AVS, or go to:

http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...a-reviews.html

I've seen this antenna and the unamplified model in action, along
with ordinary rabbit ears. It was no contest.

The lowest cost outdoor rooftop antenna will greatly outperform the
best indoor antenna.

Dunno 'bout that. I've seen some pretty pathetic excuses for outdoor
antennas, and some quite well performing indoor ones. For 20 miles
and a digital signal, an indoor antenna and a converter with a decent
front end should work fine. Besides, the OP didn't sound like he wanted
to mess with masts, guy wires, etc.

On 08/08/2008 08:57 PM, Ken Wright sent:

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.

I've built one from scrap wood with heavy copper wire for the elements and
aluminum foil for a reflector. I have it installed in an attic like
position above a kitchen. I am receiving a channel 32 station 23 miles
away with no problems.

hth,

kw

Hello Ken:

I'm just wondering if, on those days when the roof is wet with rain or
snow, if it might have been best to have used a good quality 300 Ohm
twinlead from the "Gray-Hoverman", and then convert to 75 Ohm at the
last possible moment?

Reason: Higher signal level, and probably better S/N ratio, delivered
to the DTV converter or TV because the coaxial cable, even a very good
quality RG-6, would exhibit so much signal loss at UHF frequencies
versus a good 300 Ohm twinlead.

Granted, the twinlead would need to be carefully routed with the
liberal use of standoffs and a reasonable amount of twists while
avoiding metal and noise producing equipment and/or appliances.

With respect.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Several indoor antennas work significantly better that rabbit ears?
I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

I disagree, strongly. Read some opinions on AVS, or go to:
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...a-reviews.html
I've seen this antenna and the unamplified model in action, along
with ordinary rabbit ears. It was no contest.

The first review goes like this...

"Design and construction is so flimsy the antenna was unable to support
itself in an upright position without supplemental bracing. All our HD
stations are on the same tower site so the distance to each is 20 miles (+/-
one mile) and bearings are +/- 2 degrees. Using the autotune feature on the
TV, this antenna was only able to capture 3 digital signals and unable to
hold any of them long enough to permit viewing a program. A few of the
analog stations were picked up, however, the picture quality was so bad the
signals it did receive were useless. Got out my $10, 30-year old rabbit
ears, pluggged into my high dollar TV and got 19 digital channels plus
excellent performance on analog. Took the Terk back to Best Buy."

Terk makes junk. I had one of their amplified indoor FM antennas that
actually gave worse audible performance than a piece of wire.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:21:47 -0700, 1PW wrote:

On 08/08/2008 08:57 PM, Ken Wright sent:

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.


Hello Ken:

I'm just wondering if, on those days when the roof is wet with rain or
snow, if it might have been best to have used a good quality 300 Ohm
twinlead from the "Gray-Hoverman", and then convert to 75 Ohm at the
last possible moment?

Reason: Higher signal level, and probably better S/N ratio, delivered
to the DTV converter or TV because the coaxial cable, even a very good
quality RG-6, would exhibit so much signal loss at UHF frequencies
versus a good 300 Ohm twinlead.

Granted, the twinlead would need to be carefully routed with the
liberal use of standoffs and a reasonable amount of twists while
avoiding metal and noise producing equipment and/or appliances.

With respect.

I don't doubt good twinlead would be best. But by mounting in an attic
location you will probably need less than 50 feet of coax. My setup is
truly horrible but still works. I have one uhf station off to the
northeast at 44 degrees while all the rest range from 264 to 307 degrees.
The 44 degree station is covered by an old commercial yagi with corner
reflector and the rest of the uhf stations are covered by the
Gray-Hoverman. I have the two conbined with a splitter in the 'attic'
with a single rg6 coax feeding down to the tv room. A couple of the
stations will revert to vhf frequencies after the Feb 09 switch so I have
another splitter combining with the coax feed from two old vhf antennas
which are pole mounted outside. I figure I'm losing about 9 decibels with
the splitters and being located under a roof but it still works pretty
good! Three of the uhf stations are usually in the green zone on the
converter's meter. One uhf station is usually in the yellow but seems
fine. I'm still waiting for one uhf station to come on the air, so I don't
know about it yet.

kw


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William Sommerwerck wrote:

The first review goes like this...

"Design and construction is so flimsy the antenna was unable to support
itself in an upright position without supplemental bracing. All our HD
stations are on the same tower site so the distance to each is 20 miles (+/-
one mile) and bearings are +/- 2 degrees. Using the autotune feature on the
TV, this antenna was only able to capture 3 digital signals and unable to
hold any of them long enough to permit viewing a program. A few of the
analog stations were picked up, however, the picture quality was so bad the
signals it did receive were useless. Got out my $10, 30-year old rabbit
ears, pluggged into my high dollar TV and got 19 digital channels plus
excellent performance on analog. Took the Terk back to Best Buy."

How nice of you to quote back the worst review. How about all of the
"5 Star" reviews, like:

"Before I bought this antenna, I was using a smaller HD antenna that was shady
at besr. I bought the terk at best buy simply because it was open and they
discounted it. I couldn't believe the difference. I scanned the available
channels again, and discovered that I was now getting at least twice the
number of channels that I was getting with my old HD antenna. I highly
recommend the Terk HDTVa. It may be pricey but it's worth it."

or...

"I was really impressed with this antenna. My husband was fed up with the
broken reception we were getting with the Phillips antenna. He was ready for
Direct TV. I gave it a try anyways, I am sure glad I did. The picture is great
on any channels from 2 to 68 and we are receiving more digital stations. No
more broken images and digitization. Great product for the low price."

As I stated, I watched a test of both the amplified and unamplified versions
of this antenna versus the TV's rabbit ear antenna. No contest. The rabbit
ears just couldn't compare.

I'm not saying this is the *best* indoor TV antenna. My point was that the
statement "If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper amplified "As Seen
on TV" antenna would be a waste of money" was not even in the ballpark.

As for me, I use a CM4228 mounted INSIDE in a north facing window, and have
no problem pulling in digital signals from 100 miles away.

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

The first review goes like this...

"Design and construction is so flimsy the antenna was unable to support
itself in an upright position without supplemental bracing. All our HD
stations are on the same tower site so the distance to each is 20 miles
(+/-
one mile) and bearings are +/- 2 degrees. Using the autotune feature on
the
TV, this antenna was only able to capture 3 digital signals and unable to
hold any of them long enough to permit viewing a program. A few of the
analog stations were picked up, however, the picture quality was so bad
the
signals it did receive were useless. Got out my $10, 30-year old rabbit
ears, pluggged into my high dollar TV and got 19 digital channels plus
excellent performance on analog. Took the Terk back to Best Buy."


How nice of you to quote back the worst review. How about all of the
"5 Star" reviews, like:

"Before I bought this antenna, I was using a smaller HD antenna that was
shady
at besr. I bought the terk at best buy simply because it was open and they
discounted it. I couldn't believe the difference. I scanned the available
channels again, and discovered that I was now getting at least twice the
number of channels that I was getting with my old HD antenna. I highly
recommend the Terk HDTVa. It may be pricey but it's worth it."

The reason I quoted it was that (assuming it was an honest review, which it
seemed to be) it pointed up the fact that amplified antennas don't always
work very well.

It's also worth noting that the five-star review you quote was from someone
who did not bother to comare the Terk's performance with a pair of rabbit
ears -- which the first reviewer did.

On 08/09/2008 09:48 AM, Ken Wright sent:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:21:47 -0700, 1PW wrote:

On 08/08/2008 08:57 PM, Ken Wright sent:

snip

Before spending a lot of money, I suggest you google on "gray-hoverman".
build it and try it in the attic. Hook it up with a balun and rg6 cable.


Hello Ken:

I'm just wondering if, on those days when the roof is wet with rain or
snow, if it might have been best to have used a good quality 300 Ohm
twinlead from the "Gray-Hoverman", and then convert to 75 Ohm at the
last possible moment?

Reason: Higher signal level, and probably better S/N ratio, delivered
to the DTV converter or TV because the coaxial cable, even a very good
quality RG-6, would exhibit so much signal loss at UHF frequencies
versus a good 300 Ohm twinlead.

Granted, the twinlead would need to be carefully routed with the
liberal use of standoffs and a reasonable amount of twists while
avoiding metal and noise producing equipment and/or appliances.

With respect.

I don't doubt good twinlead would be best. But by mounting in an attic
location you will probably need less than 50 feet of coax. My setup is
truly horrible but still works. I have one UHF station off to the
northeast at 44 degrees while all the rest range from 264 to 307 degrees.
The 44 degree station is covered by an old commercial Yagi with corner
reflector and the rest of the UHF stations are covered by the
Gray-Hoverman. I have the two combined with a splitter in the 'attic'
with a single rg6 coax feeding down to the TV room. A couple of the
stations will revert to vhf frequencies after the Feb 09 switch so I have
another splitter combining with the coax feed from two old vhf antennas
which are pole mounted outside. I figure I'm losing about 9 decibels with
the splitters and being located under a roof but it still works pretty
good! Three of the UHF stations are usually in the green zone on the
converter's meter. One UHF station is usually in the yellow but seems
fine. I'm still waiting for one UHF station to come on the air, so I don't
know about it yet.

kw

What a terrific description! Of course by running RG6, you could tape
it to water pipes and literally run it through mud puddles and snow
without too much of a problem. Cool!

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 04:46:11 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Several indoor antennas work significantly better that rabbit ears?
I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

I disagree, strongly. Read some opinions on AVS, or go to:
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...a-reviews.html
I've seen this antenna and the unamplified model in action, along
with ordinary rabbit ears. It was no contest.

The first review goes like this...

"Design and construction is so flimsy the antenna was unable to support
itself in an upright position without supplemental bracing. All our HD
stations are on the same tower site so the distance to each is 20 miles (+/-
one mile) and bearings are +/- 2 degrees. Using the autotune feature on the
TV, this antenna was only able to capture 3 digital signals and unable to
hold any of them long enough to permit viewing a program. A few of the
analog stations were picked up, however, the picture quality was so bad the
signals it did receive were useless. Got out my $10, 30-year old rabbit
ears, pluggged into my high dollar TV and got 19 digital channels plus
excellent performance on analog. Took the Terk back to Best Buy."

There's something odd here. All (and I do mean ALL) the HDTV sets
I've seen do NOT include a 300 ohm twin lead connection which would be
required to use a common wabbit ear antenna. Presumabley, he may have
used a coax to twinlead balun adapter, but methinks he would have
mentioned that.

I used that particular type of antenna as an example of lousy design.
It's a log periodic antenna. With 7 short elements, it will have zero
gain at any of the VHF channels, and perhaps 4dBi at best at the UHF
channels. A 12dB RF amp working over the entire UHF band is going to
have a marginal noise figure and is only good for compensating for the
effects of coax loss. If the coax cable is quite short, as it appears
to be in this case, the amp isn't going to improve sensitivity,
especially if there's no signal to start with.

My guess(tm) is that the reviewer had to deal with some lower VHF
channels, which his rabbit ears were able to pickup. 19 HDTV channels
implies a metropolitan area, with strong signals. Methinks he did
something wrong, such as a defective coax cable or not applying DC
power to the amp.

Terk makes junk. I had one of their amplified indoor FM antennas that
actually gave worse audible performance than a piece of wire.

Maybe. In a strong signal area, a piece of wire shoved into the F
connector antenna jack will work. In a weak signal area, a much
larger outside antenna, an amplifier to compensate for the coax
losses, and possibly an antenna rotator are required.

Erecting an antenna:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

Comparison of commercial antennas:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

The higher, bigger and uglier the antenna, the better it works.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:15:08 -0700, 1PW
wrote:

Hunting Park is a community of Los Angles County. Huntington Park is
approximately 19 to 20 miles SSW of most of the Los Angeles area's
transmitter sites. I dug this out of the OP post. Santa Monica + the
OP's IP gave it up. Plus, it doesn't hurt to live in California and
have about half a dozen relatives near the OP.

I know it well. My father's factory used to be nearby.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.000304,-118.203278&spn=0.172484,0.306244

Most of the HDTV xmitters for the Smog Angeles area are on Mt Wilson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Wilson_(California)
http://www.well.com/user/dmsml/wilson.html
If you can see Mt Wilson, you will get good reception. If you have a
bunch of buildings in the way, you'll have problems. The exercise is
to position the antenna so it points to Mt Wilson and does NOT have
any obstructions. My guess(tm) is about 15 degrees from true north.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Set the rabbit ears on the roof and set a brick on it .

William Sommerwerck wrote:

The reason I quoted it was that (assuming it was an honest review, which it
seemed to be) it pointed up the fact that amplified antennas don't always
work very well.

As I noted, the antenna comes in amplified and non-amplified versions. The
amplified version can have the amplifier switched off without killing all
signals, a fact the reviewer failed to mention. Methinks it was operator
error on his part more than the failure of the antenna.

It's also worth noting that the five-star review you quote was from someone
who did not bother to comare the Terk's performance with a pair of rabbit
ears -- which the first reviewer did.

In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.

Those that are using their TV's rabbit ears with a converter box to receive
digital transmissions are not getting all of the signals. Period.

In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.

Who uses rabbit ears for UHF? All TV's with a UHF tuner have a
terminal for hookup of a UHF loop.

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

The reason I quoted it was that (assuming it was an honest review, which
it
seemed to be) it pointed up the fact that amplified antennas don't always
work very well.

As I noted, the antenna comes in amplified and non-amplified versions. The
amplified version can have the amplifier switched off without killing all
signals, a fact the reviewer failed to mention. Methinks it was operator
error on his part more than the failure of the antenna.

It's also worth noting that the five-star review you quote was from
someone
who did not bother to comare the Terk's performance with a pair of rabbit
ears -- which the first reviewer did.


Inasmuch as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason
that the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna
was so laughable.

I don't remember the poster praising rabbit ears over _any_ indoor
antenna -- just the Terk. Are you certain he's wrong -- or lying?

People often have simple antennas lying around. You don't claim an expensive
product is good or superior without comparing it with exisiting products.
That's called a "control".

Some years back, when attending the SCES, I bought, on impulse, a Terk
indoor amplified FM antenna. As I said earlier, it was audibly inferior to a
piece of wire. I need to explain this.

At that time, I lived in Bellevue, WA, around the corner from Microsoft.
This was an area of severe multipath, which (despite the high signal
levels), would have justified a directional antenna. On some stations, it
was necessary to adjust antennas to minimize the multipath, or you'd have
audible distortion and breakup. This was not a problem with the wire, but
the Terk could not be positioned to eliminate the distortion.

Amplification is not suitable compensation for an undersized antenna. (Many
years ago I asked an engineer at Channel Master whether it was possible to
design a "tiny" multi-element antenna that discarded gain in favor of
directionality. He said it wasn't.)


Those that are using their TV's rabbit ears with a converter box to
receive digital transmissions are not getting all of the signals. Period.

You know this as fact?

wrote:

In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.

Who uses rabbit ears for UHF? All TV's with a UHF tuner have a
terminal for hookup of a UHF loop.

In your original post of this thread (about receiving DTV signals, many
of which are UHF): "Several indoor antennas work significantly better that
rabbit ears? I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

Rabbit ears for UHF DTV signals? I think not.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Inasmuch as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason
that the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna
was so laughable.

I don't remember the poster praising rabbit ears over _any_ indoor
antenna -- just the Terk. Are you certain he's wrong -- or lying?

Message-ID:

His post, in part "Several indoor antennas work significantly better that
rabbit ears? I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money."

NOBODY had yet even mentioned Terk antennas.

But yes, the Terk I later mention is just ONE of several that work better
than rabbit ears, and that was with several DTV converter boxes.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:07:08 -0700, UCLAN wrote:

wrote:

In as much as "rabbit ears" do a horrible job at best in receiving UHF
signals, such a comparison would be useless. *That* is one reason that
the post praising "the TV's rabbit ears" over any indoor antenna was
so laughable.

Who uses rabbit ears for UHF? All TV's with a UHF tuner have a
terminal for hookup of a UHF loop.

In your original post of this thread (about receiving DTV signals, many
of which are UHF): "Several indoor antennas work significantly better that
rabbit ears? I think not. If his rabbit ears won't work then a super duper
amplified "As Seen on TV" antenna would be a waste of money.

Rabbit ears for UHF DTV signals? I think not.

In my book the term "Rabbit Ears" assumes that if your TV is new
enough to have a UHF tuner then it will also have the UHF loop which
is the UHF equivalent to Rabbit Ears.

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you can see Mt Wilson, you will get good reception. If you have a
bunch of buildings in the way, you'll have problems. The exercise is
to position the antenna so it points to Mt Wilson and does NOT have
any obstructions. My guess(tm) is about 15 degrees from true north.


Go to www.tvfool.com. Click on the TV Signal Locater button. Enter
your address. You'll get a list, sorted in order of descending
estimated signal strength, of all the available stations. Part of the
list is a column showing the pointing azimuth from the address for
each station. If the transmitters are all in one spot, that simplifies
life greatly.

Jerry

wrote:

Rabbit ears for UHF DTV signals? I think not.

In my book the term "Rabbit Ears" assumes that if your TV is new
enough to have a UHF tuner then it will also have the UHF loop which
is the UHF equivalent to Rabbit Ears.

g. Don't hurt yourself.

It's been at least ten years since I've seen TVs with a VHF and a UHF
antenna input. Most TVs have ONE antenna input - for an F connector -
and assume the antenna is a combo VHF/UHF antenna. You gonna hook the
VHF rabbit ears and UHF loop to a signal combiner to hook them both up
to this connector?

More to the point, the OP wanted solutions for an analog TV when stations
go digital in 2009. So, he will have to use a CONVERTER BOX connected to
whatever antenna he chooses. Guess what? Those converter boxes only have
ONE antenna input, assuming a combo VHF/UHF antenna. Your VHF rabbit ear/
UHF loop idea won't work.

So *beside* the fact that several relatively low cost indoor antennas will
out perform your beloved rabbit ear/UHF loop idea, the rabbit ear/UHF loop
idea will not be easy to hook up.

I've been involved in tests with several indoor antennas with various
digital-analog converter boxes, and they outperform regular rabbit ears,
no matter how you define it.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:08:44 -0700 (PDT), Jerry
wrote:

Go to www.tvfool.com. Click on the TV Signal Locater button. Enter
your address. You'll get a list, sorted in order of descending
estimated signal strength, of all the available stations. Part of the
list is a column showing the pointing azimuth from the address for
each station. If the transmitters are all in one spot, that simplifies
life greatly.

Jerry

Seems like a great idea. Too bad I get:
The requested URL /modeling/tmp/e342501848/getall.php
was not found on this server.
instead of a chart. I'll try again later. Thanks.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Aug 8, 12:13*pm, wrote:

Your post was a month ago, but if you're still interested...here goes!

The bunny ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

If they are working fine now, they may still work if they can watch
UHF (18-69).

We already got them a DTV box, now we need the rooftop antenna
installed. I have read about how to do it. I'm fuzzy on pointing the antenna or bolting down the mast on an old roof. Perhaps a pole anchored in concrete would be better.

The higher the antenna the better, but still you may not need a
rooftop.

I was hoping to find someone who sells and installs the antenna, so a
Pro (or semi Pro) could take care of it.
I foundhttp://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANTINSTbut
the out the door cost would be about $400 or so. An expensive gift to
give someone if you ask me. I called another guy out of Santa Monica,
but he is asking $500.
Do you know anyone who can do it for less? I almost feel inclined to
do it myself. Radio Shack sells a large antenna for $99. Bah this post
is very stressful.

Don't buy a large antenna, you don't need one.

Lesson I learned is, don't open your mouth to help. I fear if I take
on this project I will muck it up. TV reception is hit and miss, the
advice I was given is point the antenna to Mount Wilson.
How do I do that, use a compass?

Wrong! The new HD converter boxes come with an signal strength
indicator that also buzzes. The box will tell you which direction to
point the antenna! But, you're right, Mt. Wilson is the best
direction.

If you've read this far, my hats off to you.
Best regards,
Michael Scipione

If you're listening Michael, or anyone else who's interested in an Off-
the-Air HD changeover (sure beats da moneysucking cable or dish).

I live in San Bernardino, a good 50 mi west of LA and a good 40 mi SE
of Mt Wilson, but I get 52 HD channels! Many are Spanish language,
but I get all of the major Networks, PBS, oldies and cartoons, and in
beautiful HD on my old Sony TV via the new HD converter box (RCA) I
got at Walmart for $60-$40coupon!

My secret is that Grey-Hoverman Antenna. I went to the website,
looked closely at the dimensions, and made one out of PVC and clothes
hanger wire. It works great on my roof. It even receives VHF as well
as UHF (some stations will continue to transmit VHF after Feb09).

HD channels are wonderful! There's no snow, no ghosts, no weird
interference, in digital you either get a good enough signal (my box
needs at least 15% signal strength) or you get a digitzed freezframe.
I get KCET at 50% and our local PBS station, which is only 15 mi away
but in the opposite direction SE, I get 60% with the antenna still
pointing toward Mt Wilson! (I don't have or need an antenna rotator.)

Here's da bottom line: (If you really need sumptin betta than
rabbit...)

1) I can help you make a G-H antenna. (free email advice)
2) I can sell you the pre-cut PVC parts with directions. ($25)
3) I can make a G-H antenna for you. ($50)
4) I can make a G-H antenna and install it for you. ($100)

I hope you see this, still have your girlfriend, and haven't bought
that $99 antenna!

Sincerely, dickawa

wrote:

The bunny ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.

If they are working fine now, they may still work if they can watch UHF
(18-69).

Many stations will be reverting back to VHF in February. Many will be
on UHF. So ordinary "rabbit-ears" won't cut it. Those that paid $$$ for
a UHF only rooftop antenna installation will be upset.

If you're listening Michael, or anyone else who's interested in an Off-
the-Air HD changeover (sure beats da moneysucking cable or dish).

I live in San Bernardino, a good 50 mi west of LA and a good 40 mi SE of Mt
Wilson, but I get 52 HD channels! Many are Spanish language, but I get all
of the major Networks, PBS, oldies and cartoons, and in beautiful HD on my
old Sony TV via the new HD converter box (RCA) I got at Walmart for
$60-$40coupon!

Hint: You're getting NO HD channels with your converter box. You're getting
analog conversions of digital channels. They AREN'T called *HD* converter
boxes, they're called *DIGITAL* converter boxes. They CAN'T put out a digital
signal, hence they can't put out a HD signal. You are receiving a stations
digital signal, be it HD or SD, and watching an analog conversion. You are
NOT watching "in beautiful HD."

Sigh...

UCLAN wrote:

wrote:

The bunny ears are not going to cut it come Feb. 2009.


If they are working fine now, they may still work if they can watch UHF
(18-69).


Many stations will be reverting back to VHF in February. Many will be
on UHF. So ordinary "rabbit-ears" won't cut it. Those that paid $$$ for
a UHF only rooftop antenna installation will be upset.

If you're listening Michael, or anyone else who's interested in an
Off- the-Air HD changeover (sure beats da moneysucking cable or dish).

I live in San Bernardino, a good 50 mi west of LA and a good 40 mi SE
of Mt
Wilson, but I get 52 HD channels! Many are Spanish language, but I
get all
of the major Networks, PBS, oldies and cartoons, and in beautiful HD
on my
old Sony TV via the new HD converter box (RCA) I got at Walmart for
$60-$40coupon!


Hint: You're getting NO HD channels with your converter box. You're getting
analog conversions of digital channels. They AREN'T called *HD* converter
boxes, they're called *DIGITAL* converter boxes. They CAN'T put out a
digital
signal, hence they can't put out a HD signal. You are receiving a stations
digital signal, be it HD or SD, and watching an analog conversion. You are
NOT watching "in beautiful HD."

Sigh...
Oh come on now, Just when I thought I was gettng ahead of the game with
my goverment issued converter! What a why to spoil it all! ...


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

September 8, this year, Wilmington,North Carolina will switch to HD TV.
www.tvpredictions.com
cuhulin

wrote:

September 8, this year, Wilmington,North Carolina will switch to HD TV.
www.tvpredictions.com
cuhulin

No, they will switch to *digital* TV. Digital can be SD or HD. The FCC
has only mandated digital, not necessarily HD.

FCC is all screwed up! They have an all screwed up dude by the name of
Powell up in there.F..K the FCC!!!!!!!!!!!!
cuhulin

wrote:

FCC is all screwed up! They have an all screwed up dude by the name of
Powell up in there.F..K the FCC!!!!!!!!!!!!
cuhulin

Wake up! Powell left the FCC quite a while ago. Take a long nap?

UCLAN wrote:

wrote:

FCC is all screwed up! They have an all screwed up dude by the name of
Powell up in there.F..K the FCC!!!!!!!!!!!!
cuhulin

Wake up! Powell left the FCC quite a while ago. Take a long nap?


He's trolling, as usual.


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