Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about a
minute).

Thanks

elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about a
minute).

Thanks


is that permanent, or termporary, power?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about
a minute).

Thanks
is that permanent, or termporary, power?

Permanent.

elyob wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about
a minute).

Thanks
is that permanent, or termporary, power?

Permanent.


Ah.

Waterproof outlets on a RCBO equipped ring, or, if lights, decent quality.

Cable is an issue too...I can't remember what the specs for outside
cabling are, but certainly steel conduit properly earthed and cable
glands and silicone where stuff exits from it is a good start. Or
armored cable..as usied underground..and lots of vaseline on any screw
connectors, and prevent then getting full of water.

Trick is not to seal things unless you can seal *completely*..better do
have a roof and a drain over anything that may get rained on..

elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about a
minute).

I'd hope the vertigo can be controlled in such a manner that it doesn't
distract you from the safety aspects of electrical wiring. They may be
some professionals that can guide you in conquering the heights issue -
though your minute spent overcoming it is a good sign, well done! ;-)

A local college would be able to give advice on becoming an electrician,
or google search this newsgroup. The question comes up quite often -
maybe we need a trades training section in the FAQ (http://www.diyfaq.co.uk)

--
Adrian C

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about
a minute).

I'd hope the vertigo can be controlled in such a manner that it doesn't
distract you from the safety aspects of electrical wiring. They may be
some professionals that can guide you in conquering the heights issue -
though your minute spent overcoming it is a good sign, well done! ;-)

A local college would be able to give advice on becoming an electrician,
or google search this newsgroup. The question comes up quite often - maybe
we need a trades training section in the FAQ (http://www.diyfaq.co.uk)

I just gave my local college a call, and it'd be 3 years of 4 hours a week.
So quite a lot for "running a wire to the roof"! I know that there is now a
legal requirement for wiring.

However, if I just wanted to run an extension cable from my flat to the
roof, what sort of requirements would I be looking at? As mentioned on other
answer, this is to be a permanent (or semi-permanent) fixture. Obviously
dealing with electricity and the elements, I know I need to be very careful,
hence the request!. I only need 12-14 volts outside (basically to run a
small computer), should I step this down before sending it outside?

Thanks

"elyob" wrote in message
...

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about
a minute).

I'd hope the vertigo can be controlled in such a manner that it doesn't
distract you from the safety aspects of electrical wiring. They may be
some professionals that can guide you in conquering the heights issue -
though your minute spent overcoming it is a good sign, well done! ;-)

A local college would be able to give advice on becoming an electrician,
or google search this newsgroup. The question comes up quite often -
maybe we need a trades training section in the FAQ
(http://www.diyfaq.co.uk)

I just gave my local college a call, and it'd be 3 years of 4 hours a
week. So quite a lot for "running a wire to the roof"! I know that there
is now a legal requirement for wiring.

However, if I just wanted to run an extension cable from my flat to the
roof, what sort of requirements would I be looking at? As mentioned on
other answer, this is to be a permanent (or semi-permanent) fixture.
Obviously dealing with electricity and the elements, I know I need to be
very careful, hence the request!. I only need 12-14 volts outside
(basically to run a small computer), should I step this down before
sending it outside?

Thanks
Computers run on 240 volts in the UK

Laptops have their own transformer from 240 down to 15 volts according the
spec on mine

If it is a laptop that you are running you may be able to make up a lead to
leave the transformer indoors and run the 15 volts outside. It rather
depends on distance and therefore voltage drop in the cable.

I am not aware of any regs or safety issues with 12 volt supply outdoors
after all that's what boats cars and caravans use.

However I am not sure how you would waterproof the computer

Tony

I only need 12-14 volts outside (basically to run a small computer),
should I step this down before sending it outside?

No. 12V is extra low voltage and pretty safe. Your main problem is that a
long run at 12V is very inefficient and could have excessive voltage drop.
You may find it is not practical and have to run the cable at a higher
voltage (i.e. 230V) and have the power adapter at the point of use.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
...
I only need 12-14 volts outside (basically to run a small computer),
should I step this down before sending it outside?

No. 12V is extra low voltage and pretty safe. Your main problem is that a
long run at 12V is very inefficient and could have excessive voltage drop.
You may find it is not practical and have to run the cable at a higher
voltage (i.e. 230V) and have the power adapter at the point of use.

Would 10 metres be considered a long run of cable?

No. 12V is extra low voltage and pretty safe. Your main problem is that
a
long run at 12V is very inefficient and could have excessive voltage
drop.
You may find it is not practical and have to run the cable at a higher
voltage (i.e. 230V) and have the power adapter at the point of use.

Would 10 metres be considered a long run of cable?

Assumptions:
Laptop power supply is 60W.
Laptop voltage is 12V.
Length of cable is 10m.
Twin and earth mains cable is used.

Using the tlc-direct volt drop calculator, it suggests 6mm cable for this.
This will provide a voltage drop of 0.4V. 6mm cable is very hefty.

Presumably, then, assuming volt drop is inversely proportional to cross
sectional area, you would get a table approximately like.

1.0 - 2.4V
1.5 - 1.6V
2.5 - 1.0V
4.0 - 0.6V
6.0 - 0.4V

I don't have the resistance figures on me to check this table properly, but
it looks about right. Remember, this is based on a 60W supply, which is a
typical small one. A more powerful laptop (especially a desktop replacement)
could need substantially more. Also, I don't know what your laptop will cope
with in terms of input voltage.

Christian.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:12:57 +0100 someone who may be "elyob"
wrote this:-

However, if I just wanted to run an extension cable from my flat to the
roof, what sort of requirements would I be looking at?

The requirements you will learn about in 3 years of 4 hours a week.
There are no short-cuts and wiring outside the protection of a
building is one of the most demanding applications there is.

I suggest that if you don't want to learn you team up with someone
who has learnt.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:12:57 +0100 someone who may be "elyob"
wrote this:-

However, if I just wanted to run an extension cable from my flat to the
roof, what sort of requirements would I be looking at?

The requirements you will learn about in 3 years of 4 hours a week.
There are no short-cuts and wiring outside the protection of a
building is one of the most demanding applications there is.

I suggest that if you don't want to learn you team up with someone
who has learnt.

I'd like to be able to get a rough cost estimate at least at this point. See
if it is even worth persuing it.

At this point it's harder work than first imagined, I may have to just have
to live with running a long amount of antenna cable but would ideally prefer
to get around this.

elyob wrote:

Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about
a minute).

I just gave my local college a call, and it'd be 3 years of 4 hours a week.
So quite a lot for "running a wire to the roof"! I know that there is now a
legal requirement for wiring.

However, if I just wanted to run an extension cable from my flat to the
roof, what sort of requirements would I be looking at?

I dont usually want to be offputting, but someone who knows nothing
about electricity doing outdoor mains wiring on peoples roofs,
locations where even the slightest of shocks can prove fatal, is
something I would have to question the wisdom of.

And a person with vertigo who knows nothing about electrics or the
various legal isues involved doing this sounds truly stupid. What do
your insurers think of you doing potentially fatal work without even
basic subject knowledge or awareness of the various legal requirements
involved?

I hope you've done some more thinking since posting this.


As mentioned on other
answer, this is to be a permanent (or semi-permanent) fixture. Obviously
dealing with electricity and the elements, I know I need to be very careful,
hence the request!. I only need 12-14 volts outside (basically to run a
small computer), should I step this down before sending it outside?

I see you waited until post 6 to tell us the basic facts.

You should not be professionally running mains electricity outdoors
anywhere, and could end up in front of a judge if you do. I realise you
might take offence at this, but I'd much rather you got offended and
had a good think about it than went ahead and found yourself 3 years
later standing in front of the judge, explaining why your illegally
installed work took someones life. And before you ask, if you're not
familiar with the various regs it almost certainly would be illegal.

Yes you can run 12v 10 metres, but you need to bear in mind you will
need much heavier cable than you would use for mains. I'm not sure how
constructive it would be to go into voltage drops, design margins and
so on, so just pick something like 2.5mm^2 and you should be ok.

I dont know if youre trolling or withholding more key information from
us, but try not to kill anyone.


NT

wrote in message
oups.com...
elyob wrote:
I dont usually want to be offputting, but someone who knows nothing
about electricity doing outdoor mains wiring on peoples roofs,
locations where even the slightest of shocks can prove fatal, is
something I would have to question the wisdom of.

Hence the reason I'm asking here before I even attempt it, or not. I think
the wisdom is in asking first is it not?

And a person with vertigo who knows nothing about electrics or the
various legal isues involved doing this sounds truly stupid. What do
your insurers think of you doing potentially fatal work without even
basic subject knowledge or awareness of the various legal requirements
involved?

I hope you've done some more thinking since posting this.

I'm asking what sort of training is required and what sort of equipment is
needed before I even attempt it. So at the moment, legally I'm in the clear.
I've not done anything yet.

I see you waited until post 6 to tell us the basic facts.

I think the basic facts are, how do I get up on the roof, not fall off and
install electricity point. Okay, I wasn't clear on the electricity being
permanent, but the basic facts were there.

You should not be professionally running mains electricity outdoors
anywhere, and could end up in front of a judge if you do. I realise you
might take offence at this, but I'd much rather you got offended and
had a good think about it than went ahead and found yourself 3 years
later standing in front of the judge, explaining why your illegally
installed work took someones life. And before you ask, if you're not
familiar with the various regs it almost certainly would be illegal.

Yes you can run 12v 10 metres, but you need to bear in mind you will
need much heavier cable than you would use for mains. I'm not sure how
constructive it would be to go into voltage drops, design margins and
so on, so just pick something like 2.5mm^2 and you should be ok.

I dont know if youre trolling or withholding more key information from
us, but try not to kill anyone.

It's not a troll, it's a serious enquiry from someone who doesn't know the
regs and thought he'd just ask here. An alternate is to keep all the
machinery indoors and run just an antenna cable up the wall. However the
loss of signal doing this is enormous, and I'd prefer to get the equipment
outdoors and the antenna with as little cable run as possible.

And, no offence taken asthere is important information in what you've
written, and (as you say), serious consequences if things go wrong.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:42:41 +0100 someone who may be "elyob"
wrote this:-

I think the basic facts are, how do I get up on the roof,

That depends on the building. On some it is a matter of opening a
door or hatch. On others it is a matter of opening a window. On some
it is a matter of using the appropriate ladders. On some it is a
matter of using the appropriate scaffolding. In recent years the HSE
have taken up working at height with a vengeance.

not fall off

That depends on the building. Is the roof flat and suitable for
walking on? Does it have edge protection? Are roof ladders and/or
crawling boards necessary?

and install electricity point.

Your plan would also involve installing waterproof data cabling,
installing the computer and installing the cover for the computer.
Obviously you need to be able to get all this on the roof, along
with any tools you need. The equipment must be fixed to the roof so
that it is not likely to fall off and hit someone.

An alternate is to keep all the machinery indoors

Far more sensible.

and run just an antenna cable up the wall. However the
loss of signal doing this is enormous,

Have you investigated the various high gain versions?

and I'd prefer to get the equipment outdoors

Remember that you will also need to maintain it outdoors.

and the antenna with as little cable run as possible.

At the expense of a lot of equipment that is going to be difficult
to maintain even if it does remain on the roof.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

It's not a troll, it's a serious enquiry from someone who doesn't know the
regs and thought he'd just ask here. An alternate is to keep all the
machinery indoors and run just an antenna cable up the wall. However the
loss of signal doing this is enormous, and I'd prefer to get the equipment
outdoors and the antenna with as little cable run as possible.

And, no offence taken asthere is important information in what you've
written, and (as you say), serious consequences if things go wrong.



What exactly are you up to?, some sort of wi-fi networking if that so
POE is good for that!...
--
Tony Sayer

"elyob" wrote in message
...
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about a
minute).

Thanks

If this is for a very specific purpose (from the other replies, it sounds
it), it might be better to explain exactly what you have in mind rather than
everyone guessing what you're about. I'm sure that you'll then get much
better replies.

"Paul Andrews" wrote in message
...
"elyob" wrote in message
...
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about
a
minute).

Thanks

If this is for a very specific purpose (from the other replies, it sounds
it), it might be better to explain exactly what you have in mind rather
than
everyone guessing what you're about. I'm sure that you'll then get much
better replies.

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.

The message
from "elyob" contains these words:

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project.

I thought the point was it was wireless!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 16:37:04 +0100 someone who may be "elyob"
wrote this:-

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project.

Why do you want to stick anything on the roof, especially computers?

Why not stick access ports inside the houses concerned? If anything
goes on the roof it should only be the antenna.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 16:37:04 +0100, "elyob"
wrote:

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.

Why not have a networked wlan gateway on the roof and have the
computer indoors?

This sort of thing has been done a lot in the US so a Google should
get some good ideas.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=community+wlan&btnG=Google+Search&m eta=
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=community+wifi&btnG=Search &meta=

cheers,
Pete.

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project.

Why do you need computers for this?..

I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Works very well, we use industrial grade equipment Alvarion Breeze net
and thats fine with POE but the same with anything else!...

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.

Still odd why you need the PC n the roof, can you explain it all a bit
more, sounds interesting






--
Tony Sayer

elyob wrote:

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.



This is insane.

What you do, is get a WiFi router and run a few meters of cable to a
rooftop antenna.

Ditto for the actual computers.

Or if you are close enough,m an external antenna in a window usually
works well.

No need to take mains up there, and any aerial rigger will help you get
the main aerial rigged.

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 21:11:20 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

What you do, is get a WiFi router and run a few meters of cable to a
rooftop antenna.

The OP would do well to explain the problem properly.

How big is the network to be? How many access ports are there to be
roughly? How will they communicate with each other? How is the
network to be segmented? Is reception required inside, outside or
both? From these I think the OP could get some very good advice.

As for antennas, a reasonable starting place is
http://www.netshop.co.uk/productslis...tegoryID=52497 though
many of them are more expensive than the access port they are
connected to and the cautions on installation should be noted.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 21:11:20 +0100 someone who may be The Natural
Philosopher wrote this:-

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

What you do, is get a WiFi router and run a few meters of cable to a
rooftop antenna.

The OP would do well to explain the problem properly.

How big is the network to be? How many access ports are there to be
roughly? How will they communicate with each other? How is the
network to be segmented? Is reception required inside, outside or
both? From these I think the OP could get some very good advice.

As for antennas, a reasonable starting place is
http://www.netshop.co.uk/productslis...tegoryID=52497 though
many of them are more expensive than the access port they are
connected to and the cautions on installation should be noted.



Best outfit for wireless networking equipment is,

http://www.solwise.com/

--
Tony Sayer

"elyob" wrote in message
...

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet, although
this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.


A USB stick sealed in a piece of plastic pipe (25mm conduit) with a USB
cable down to the computer (or a hub) in the roof space is safe and doesn't
suffer from any signal loss.
You might even be able to install it through a plastic soil pipe vent
without going outside (drill a hole and poke the conduit up, seal with a
suitable sealant and some tape).

What sort of range are you aiming for?

"dennis@home" wrote in message
. uk...

"elyob" wrote in message
...

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet,
although this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.


A USB stick sealed in a piece of plastic pipe (25mm conduit) with a USB
cable down to the computer (or a hub) in the roof space is safe and
doesn't suffer from any signal loss.
You might even be able to install it through a plastic soil pipe vent
without going outside (drill a hole and poke the conduit up, seal with a
suitable sealant and some tape).

What sort of range are you aiming for?

Much bigger range, and will be using specialist equipment. Will be using big
omni antennas and the like.

i.e. http://www.solwise.com/wireless-outd...4-omni-8on.htm

In article , elyob
writes

"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...

"elyob" wrote in message
...

Am looking at sticking computers on a few houses around the area for a
community WiFi project. I may be able to run power over ethernet,
although this has been muted from some involved in similar projects.

Basically I will strip the computer down to minimal parts and place in a
waterproof cover with an antenna on top.


A USB stick sealed in a piece of plastic pipe (25mm conduit) with a USB
cable down to the computer (or a hub) in the roof space is safe and
doesn't suffer from any signal loss.
You might even be able to install it through a plastic soil pipe vent
without going outside (drill a hole and poke the conduit up, seal with a
suitable sealant and some tape).

What sort of range are you aiming for?

Much bigger range, and will be using specialist equipment. Will be using big
omni antennas and the like.

i.e. http://www.solwise.com/wireless-outd...4-omni-8on.htm




Can you explain the need to have computers outside on the roof?. This is
the bit I cant see the need for unless you have some new way of
implementing mesh networks?.

I hope that your not trying to use the wireless card "in" a a PC for
that sort of reason if you are then your going about this in a real arse
about face way.........
--
Tony Sayer

elyob wrote:
Hi, I've got a project on that may require me accessing rooftops in the
local area and providing power to these areas. Firstly, I get vertigo.
Secondly, I know nothing about electrics.

So, my question is, what steps should I go through to learn the correct
methods, safety techniques and neccesary electrical skills?

Hopefully by employing the correct safety, I will overcome the vertigo
(which isn't terible, terrible, unless I feel unsafe. I went up "The
Monument" in London the other week, and overcame the vertigo after about a
minute).

Will you be employing failed car thieves?

You might get a lot of sympathy from the police if you do.

In article . com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:

Will you be employing failed car thieves?

You might get a lot of sympathy from the police if you do.

Quite. If you come to Gloucester, our police even feed
and water fugitives.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk