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| Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Lithium batteries not recommended?
Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera.
It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? |
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#2
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There are a number of issues that may be prevalent with the unit that you
have. This has to do with its design. The default under load voltage may not be able to be properly matched in the size type that it uses. There may be an issue with the current source capability of the batteries in the size type that it uses. There may be an issue with any type of built in charger that your unit may use. If lithium batteries are not properly used, and or charged, there can also be safety issues. It is best to follow the instructions from the manufacture, if you want to have good product reliability, performance, and safety. A good advice is to follow the instructions from the manufacture. -- Jerry G. ====== wrote in message ... Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? |
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#3
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:18:31 -0400, "Jerry G."
wrote: There are a number of issues that may be prevalent with the unit that you have. This has to do with its design. The default under load voltage may not be able to be properly matched in the size type that it uses. There may be an issue with the current source capability of the batteries in the size type that it uses. There may be an issue with any type of built in charger that your unit may use. No built in charger If lithium batteries are not properly used, and or charged, there can also be safety issues. It is best to follow the instructions from the manufacture, if you want to have good product reliability, performance, and safety. A good advice is to follow the instructions from the manufacture. If it's a recharging issue I can eliminate that issue because I am aware of it. Shouldn't the slightly higher voltage of the lithium's be ok if the camera has a voltage regulator? |
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#4
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tnom:
The reply from Jerry G. has some very good points that pertinent to your question. I suggest that you should take your argument directly to SONY ..... they made the statement in their manual for a good reason, all we can do is conjecture, and if wrong, could damage your new, shiny camera. Sony's website has a very good customer support link along with FAQ's that may answer your question directly from the horse's mouth. -- Best Regards, Daniel Sofie Electronics Supply & Repair - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - wrote in message ... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:18:31 -0400, "Jerry G." wrote: There are a number of issues that may be prevalent with the unit that you have. This has to do with its design. The default under load voltage may not be able to be properly matched in the size type that it uses. There may be an issue with the current source capability of the batteries in the size type that it uses. There may be an issue with any type of built in charger that your unit may use. No built in charger If lithium batteries are not properly used, and or charged, there can also be safety issues. It is best to follow the instructions from the manufacture, if you want to have good product reliability, performance, and safety. A good advice is to follow the instructions from the manufacture. If it's a recharging issue I can eliminate that issue because I am aware of it. Shouldn't the slightly higher voltage of the lithium's be ok if the camera has a voltage regulator? |
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#5
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wrote in message ... Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? Most digital cams need a short pulse of high current from the batteries. I have not looked at the curves of the lithiums but suspect they will not give the high current. Many times the standard nonrechargables will not give many shots either. |
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#7
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:51:42 -0500, Jim Adney
wrote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:38:31 -0400 wrote: If it's a recharging issue I can eliminate that issue because I am aware of it. Shouldn't the slightly higher voltage of the lithium's be ok if the camera has a voltage regulator? The lithium cell has twice the voltage of a NiCad or NiMH. Unless they designed the circuit to work with that overvoltage, I'd expect it to give problems. Energizer sells single AA lithium batteries http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx |
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#8
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:57:49 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? Most digital cams need a short pulse of high current from the batteries. I have not looked at the curves of the lithiums but suspect they will not give the high current. Many times the standard nonrechargables will not give many shots either. Energizer Lithium AA photo battery http://www.energizer.com/energizerphoto/faq.htm |
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#9
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:57:49 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: Most digital cams need a short pulse of high current from the batteries. I have not looked at the curves of the lithiums but suspect they will not give the high current. Many times the standard nonrechargables will not give many shots either. The manual from Sony's site page 98 where it lists what types of cells should not be used, says "we cannot gurantee full performance of the camera by property of the bartteries, such as brownout of the batteries" . Energizer's L91 AAs can supply 2 sec 3A pulses and continuous 2A which although, not as high as good NiMH would appear to be well over any typical camera needs but this one may be a real hog?. |
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#10
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wrote in message ... Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? One other thing that I have heard but can not verify is that the cells may give off fumes that will eat the case or compinents of the camera. It comes from the unverified story that the FAA will not certify them for the emergency locator beacons as the fumes eat the airframes. |
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#11
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My FujiFilm Finepix digital camera has the same warning in its manual - but I
don't know why David Ralph Mowery wrote: wrote in message ... Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? Most digital cams need a short pulse of high current from the batteries. I have not looked at the curves of the lithiums but suspect they will not give the high current. Many times the standard nonrechargables will not give many shots either. |
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#12
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:39:33 -0400 wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:51:42 -0500, Jim Adney wrote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:38:31 -0400 wrote: If it's a recharging issue I can eliminate that issue because I am aware of it. Shouldn't the slightly higher voltage of the lithium's be ok if the camera has a voltage regulator? The lithium cell has twice the voltage of a NiCad or NiMH. Unless they designed the circuit to work with that overvoltage, I'd expect it to give problems. Energizer sells single AA lithium batteries http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx Yes, and so do lots of other makers, but using these in place of 1.5V AA cells will subject your unit to twice the voltage that it was expecting. This is probably not a good idea. My point was that some devices and makers have attacked this problem by making devices and batteries which can use either some number of 1.5V cells, or half as many 3V cells. They make special Lithium cells which are shaped like 2 AAs side-by-side, so you get more than twice the energy storage in the same space without going up in voltage at all. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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#13
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Howdy!
"Jim Adney" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:39:33 -0400 wrote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:51:42 -0500, Jim Adney wrote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:38:31 -0400 wrote: If it's a recharging issue I can eliminate that issue because I am aware of it. Shouldn't the slightly higher voltage of the lithium's be ok if the camera has a voltage regulator? The lithium cell has twice the voltage of a NiCad or NiMH. Unless they designed the circuit to work with that overvoltage, I'd expect it to give problems. Energizer sells single AA lithium batteries http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx Yes, and so do lots of other makers, but using these in place of 1.5V AA cells will subject your unit to twice the voltage that it was expecting. This is probably not a good idea. Not THOSE Lithiums. They're internally voltage-regulated to output 1.5V. Else, I'd have let a LOT of smoke out of my digital camera. My point was that some devices and makers have attacked this problem by making devices and batteries which can use either some number of 1.5V cells, or half as many 3V cells. They make special Lithium cells which are shaped like 2 AAs side-by-side, so you get more than twice the energy storage in the same space without going up in voltage at all. They also make packages (notice, not the cells! They're still 3V) that drop the output down to 1.5 for compatibility's sake. RwP |
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#14
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Energizer sells single AA lithium batteries http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx Yes, and so do lots of other makers, but using these in place of 1.5V AA cells will subject your unit to twice the voltage that it was expecting. This is probably not a good idea. No. Lots of other maker do not sell them. Just Energizer and they are 1.5 volts. My point was that some devices and makers have attacked this problem by making devices and batteries which can use either some number of 1.5V cells, or half as many 3V cells. They make special Lithium cells which are shaped like 2 AAs side-by-side, so you get more than twice the energy storage in the same space without going up in voltage at all. These double cased types have been around for a while. Energizer now has single AA packaged lithium cells that are 1.5 volts |
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#15
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i also have a Yashica ez zoom autofocus camera(regular 35 mm film).
its manual also says not to use NiCD, or Lithium batteries and to only use alkaline AA cells. CAn anybody explain why this is? anyway i ve been using two NiMH batteries for the camera for a while without any problems.will i damage my camera? |
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#16
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howdy!
wrote in message oups.com... i also have a Yashica ez zoom autofocus camera(regular 35 mm film). its manual also says not to use NiCD, or Lithium batteries and to only use alkaline AA cells. NiCads are 1.2V, Lithium CELLs are 3V. Either one is bad news for a camera - the NiCad won't last long enough, and might not work at all - and the 3V Lithiums would tend to fry it. Energizer Lithium AA and AAAs are voltage-limited to 1.5V, which should make them OK. CAn anybody explain why this is? anyway i ve been using two NiMH batteries for the camera for a while without any problems.will i damage my camera? Are they 1.5V? If so, then they're OK. If not, but are 1.2V, then it's not a matter of damage usually but of shortened life since the camera will shut down on low voltage LONG before the cells are actually depleted. RwP |
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#17
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:42:55 GMT, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: snip One other thing that I have heard but can not verify is that the cells may give off fumes that will eat the case or compinents of the camera. It comes from the unverified story that the FAA will not certify them for the emergency locator beacons as the fumes eat the airframes. Pressurized industrial Lithium Sulfur Dioxide Batteries (LiSO2), a different non camera lithium chemistry, and are nominally 3V Consumer manganese dioxide lithiums, as used in cameras, are also 3V.. Eveready's l91 are Lithium/Iron Disulfide (Li/FeS 2) 1.5V The various kinds recapped he http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/PrimBatt/Lithium.htm |
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#18
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:58:27 -0400, wrote:
Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? Here is the best info I have found on the Energizer AA lithium's http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf |
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#19
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:58:27 -0400, wrote:
Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? More info. http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/typic...cteristics.pdf |
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#21
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On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:22:06 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:58:27 -0400, wrote: Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? Maybe this is the reason? Lithium's can supply the high impulse current used to charge a flash for example. However they do this at a higher voltage than the recommended NIMH. IxE=P If A 1.2 volt NIMH = 1, then a 1.5 volt lithium = 1.5625 So that a Lithium AA could potentially increase the wattage of a flash by a factor of 1.5625 The Sony manual says to use the ZR6 oxy-Nickel cells. They have even higher voltage output than the L91s which are closer to 1.4V under load. Most likely the lithiums can't supply closely spaced consecutive high current pulses (hence the manual's "brownout" on pg99). |
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#22
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On 15 Sep 2005 07:17:18 -0700, "
wrote: i also have a Yashica ez zoom autofocus camera(regular 35 mm film). its manual also says not to use NiCD, or Lithium batteries and to only use alkaline AA cells. CAn anybody explain why this is? anyway i ve been using two NiMH batteries for the camera for a while without any problems.will i damage my camera? Some cameras need the higher open circuit voltage from alkalines or the camera electronics assumes a weak battery. Quality current NiMh have a tad higher voltage than NiCads except under very heavy load such as found in power tools -- due to the NiMh's higher internal resistance. If the NiMh work by all means use them.. |
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#23
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:56:32 -0500 "Ralph Wade Phillips"
wrote: http://www.energizer.com/products/lithium/default.aspx Not THOSE Lithiums. They're internally voltage-regulated to output 1.5V. Else, I'd have let a LOT of smoke out of my digital camera. Okay, thanks for bring me up to speed on these. I didn't know about them. They appear to just be a different chemistry, still incorporating lithium, which produces a lower potential. Not quite the same thing as "voltage-regulated", but with the same end result. My point was that some devices and makers have attacked this problem by making devices and batteries which can use either some number of 1.5V cells, or half as many 3V cells. They make special Lithium cells which are shaped like 2 AAs side-by-side, so you get more than twice the energy storage in the same space without going up in voltage at all. They also make packages (notice, not the cells! They're still 3V) that drop the output down to 1.5 for compatibility's sake. Not sure what you mean here. The side-by-side packages are 3V. The Energizer .pdf file makes no mention of a regulator, just the different ~1.5V Li/FeS2 chemistry. Or did I miss something else? The PTC is just a current limiter and overtemp device. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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#24
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Lithium batteries not recommended?
I owned an older Olympus Digicam. They had the same warning with their
equipment. Their explanation was that the Lithium batteries get too hot during discharge and the higher temps will damage camera components. Heat - that's it. Nothing fancy. wrote in message ... Just purchased a Sony Cybershot DSC-H1 digital camera. It came with 2 NIMH AA batteries. The manual says... You can not use lithium batteries. I have always used non rechargeable lithium AA's for emergency back ups. Why doesn't Sony want these batteries used? |
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