Hello,

I am seriously thinking of a battery refill business for a living. It would
be most likely a one-man shop by myself. I thought the refill is one way of
using our resource safely and economically if properly serviced and managed.
Even though I studied the electronic engineering in college many decades
ago, this energy/battery industry is totally new to me.

I suppose there are basic steps in doing this: Opening the battery pack,
disconnecting the circuitry, replacing batteries with new ones after some
welding work, connecting the circuit, and sealing the seams. I have,
however, no idea on the complexity of each step, type of tools and machines.

Would you be kind enough to give me a piece of advice on this business
technically or non-technically or business-wise. Every information,
experience, warning, advice or threatening from you will help me a lot.
Thanks a lot!

With best regards,

SY Chun

"SY Chun" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am seriously thinking of a battery refill business for a living. It
would
be most likely a one-man shop by myself. I thought the refill is one way
of
using our resource safely and economically if properly serviced and
managed.
Even though I studied the electronic engineering in college many decades
ago, this energy/battery industry is totally new to me.

I suppose there are basic steps in doing this: Opening the battery pack,
disconnecting the circuitry, replacing batteries with new ones after some
welding work, connecting the circuit, and sealing the seams. I have,
however, no idea on the complexity of each step, type of tools and
machines.

Would you be kind enough to give me a piece of advice on this business
technically or non-technically or business-wise. Every information,
experience, warning, advice or threatening from you will help me a lot.
Thanks a lot!

With best regards,

SY Chun



I've done it before to fix a pack I needed right away with mixed results. I
was never able to get the pack to look perfect again after cracking it open,
and welding wires to batteries is extremly tricky without the right tools
but it did work. I suspect you'd have a hard time making any sort of living
off it but if you enjoy tinkering you might make a few bucks on the side to
pay for your hobbies.

In article ,
SY Chun wrote:
I am seriously thinking of a battery refill business for a living. It
would be most likely a one-man shop by myself. I thought the refill is
one way of using our resource safely and economically if properly
serviced and managed. Even though I studied the electronic engineering
in college many decades ago, this energy/battery industry is totally
new to me.

I suppose there are basic steps in doing this: Opening the battery pack,
disconnecting the circuitry, replacing batteries with new ones after
some welding work, connecting the circuit, and sealing the seams. I
have, however, no idea on the complexity of each step, type of tools
and machines.

The trouble is that replacement cells of good quality usually cost more
than a complete battery for the most common things like cordless drills,
phones, etc. Although they will often make a cheap tool work rather better
than new ;-)

You have two options. Maker's packs have welded connections - the heat
generated by slower soldering may damage them. But so called tagged cells
are available in the common sizes, and these may be soldered. The casing
can be simply glued - if you can open it in the first place.

Would you be kind enough to give me a piece of advice on this business
technically or non-technically or business-wise. Every information,
experience, warning, advice or threatening from you will help me a lot.
Thanks a lot!

The main problem is that any maker of the things that use this type of
battery buys them by the millions and gets bulk discount. You'll be buying
only a few at a time - given the vast range - and will have to pay many
times their price. So will really be limited to economic repair of
specialist types where the overall sales are low.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

New Li-Ion batteries are super cheap on Ebay; under $40 For most high
capacity 7.2V models. I doubt you could remanufacture used ones for less.
JR
SY Chun wrote:

Hello,

I am seriously thinking of a battery refill business for a living. It would
be most likely a one-man shop by myself. I thought the refill is one way of
using our resource safely and economically if properly serviced and managed.
Even though I studied the electronic engineering in college many decades
ago, this energy/battery industry is totally new to me.

I suppose there are basic steps in doing this: Opening the battery pack,
disconnecting the circuitry, replacing batteries with new ones after some
welding work, connecting the circuit, and sealing the seams. I have,
however, no idea on the complexity of each step, type of tools and machines.

Would you be kind enough to give me a piece of advice on this business
technically or non-technically or business-wise. Every information,
experience, warning, advice or threatening from you will help me a lot.
Thanks a lot!

With best regards,

SY Chun




--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

In article ,
JR North wrote:

| New Li-Ion batteries are super cheap on Ebay; under $40 For most high
| capacity 7.2V models. I doubt you could remanufacture used ones for less.

Under $40 is super cheap?

Of course, I'm not even sure what application we're talking about.
Small bare LiPo cells are relatively cheap, but the larger ones are
quite expensive.

I do rebuild many of my own battery packs, but it's too labor
intensive to try and make a living at it.

I did replace the Li-ion battery in my iPAQ with an R/C LiPo battery
for about $10. To buy the battery elsewhere would be about $40.
Works fine now. So it definately worked well for me, and I rebuild
NiCd packs for radios all the time, usually with NiMH cells with a lot
more capacity. But it takes a lot of time ...

--
Doug McLaren,
echo '16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D4D465452snlbxq'|dc

SY Chun wrote:
Hello,

I am seriously thinking of a battery refill business for a living. It would
be most likely a one-man shop by myself. I thought the refill is one way of
using our resource safely and economically if properly serviced and managed.
Even though I studied the electronic engineering in college many decades
ago, this energy/battery industry is totally new to me.

I suppose there are basic steps in doing this: Opening the battery pack,
disconnecting the circuitry, replacing batteries with new ones after some
welding work, connecting the circuit, and sealing the seams. I have,
however, no idea on the complexity of each step, type of tools and machines.

Would you be kind enough to give me a piece of advice on this business
technically or non-technically or business-wise. Every information,
experience, warning, advice or threatening from you will help me a lot.
Thanks a lot!

With best regards,

SY Chun



You MUST have a spot welder to connect the cells. DON'T LET ANYBODY
TELL YOU OTHERWISE!!!!!
You MUST have a LOT of insurance. If anything you ever touched
catches fire or if someone's laptop dies for ANY reason, you'll
be getting a call from some nice lawyers.
You MUST have proprietary information from the equipment vendor.
Some/many battery packs lose their brain when you disconnect the cells.

Nobody is ever happy with their device battery. Last place you
want to be is in the middle. "Battery pack can't be repaired."
"Whaddya mean, it worked when I sent it to you?".....

Suggest you find a simpler business with less legal downside and fewer
customer issues.
mike

--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links. Delete this sig when replying.
..
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
Wanted 12" LCD for Compaq Armada 7770MT.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
htremovethistp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

hit the wrong key. I just got 2 Li-Ion 2800mah packs for my camcorder
for $36. +sh
JR

Doug McLaren wrote:

In article ,
JR North wrote:

| New Li-Ion batteries are super cheap on Ebay; under $40 For most high
| capacity 7.2V models. I doubt you could remanufacture used ones for less.

Under $40 is super cheap?

Of course, I'm not even sure what application we're talking about.
Small bare LiPo cells are relatively cheap, but the larger ones are
quite expensive.

I do rebuild many of my own battery packs, but it's too labor
intensive to try and make a living at it.

I did replace the Li-ion battery in my iPAQ with an R/C LiPo battery
for about $10. To buy the battery elsewhere would be about $40.
Works fine now. So it definately worked well for me, and I rebuild
NiCd packs for radios all the time, usually with NiMH cells with a lot
more capacity. But it takes a lot of time ...



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Thank you all. It's very informative...

SY Chun


"mike" wrote in message
...
SY Chun wrote:
Hello,

I am seriously thinking of a battery refill business for a living. It
would be most likely a one-man shop by myself. I thought the refill is
one way of using our resource safely and economically if properly
serviced and managed. Even though I studied the electronic engineering in
college many decades ago, this energy/battery industry is totally new to
me.

I suppose there are basic steps in doing this: Opening the battery pack,
disconnecting the circuitry, replacing batteries with new ones after some
welding work, connecting the circuit, and sealing the seams. I have,
however, no idea on the complexity of each step, type of tools and
machines.

Would you be kind enough to give me a piece of advice on this business
technically or non-technically or business-wise. Every information,
experience, warning, advice or threatening from you will help me a lot.
Thanks a lot!

With best regards,

SY Chun

You MUST have a spot welder to connect the cells. DON'T LET ANYBODY
TELL YOU OTHERWISE!!!!!
You MUST have a LOT of insurance. If anything you ever touched
catches fire or if someone's laptop dies for ANY reason, you'll
be getting a call from some nice lawyers.
You MUST have proprietary information from the equipment vendor.
Some/many battery packs lose their brain when you disconnect the cells.

Nobody is ever happy with their device battery. Last place you
want to be is in the middle. "Battery pack can't be repaired." "Whaddya
mean, it worked when I sent it to you?".....

Suggest you find a simpler business with less legal downside and fewer
customer issues.
mike

--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links. Delete this sig when replying.
.
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
Wanted 12" LCD for Compaq Armada 7770MT.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
htremovethistp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

In article , mike wrote:

| You MUST have a spot welder to connect the cells. DON'T LET ANYBODY
| TELL YOU OTHERWISE!!!!!

Here, I'm going to tell you otherwise.

Sure, it would be nice -- it would make the job a lot quicker, which
would be important if you wanted to make a business out of it.

But you can certainly solder your own battery packs together, and once
you get the hang of it, the odds of a bad pack are very low.

The key is to have a hot soldering iron -- 80 watts or so -- and to be
very quick -- no more than 3 seconds of heat on the battery. More,
and you risk damaging the cell. Typically I glue the cells together,
use a dremel on the tips to make them rough and to clean them up, tin
them with solder ( 3 seconds each), then use desoldering braid to
solder the cells togeter (again, 3 seconds each.) Once done, I
throw it on the battery cycler and make sure that the pack's
performance is what it's supposed to be. If not, I throw the pack
into the `recycle it' bag.

I've made lots of them -- for radios, for R/C planes and transmitters,
for power tools, and have not had any problems beyond a small
percentage (10% ?) not making the grade once I ran them on the cycler.

If you're afraid of soldering directly to the battery itself, you can
buy cells with soldering tabs, but I find it's easier to do it without
them, and you'll pay extra for those cells (certainly, you won't find
them on sale at Frys or Harbor Freight Tools for under $1/cell for AA
cells.)

| You MUST have a LOT of insurance. If anything you ever touched
| catches fire or if someone's laptop dies for ANY reason, you'll
| be getting a call from some nice lawyers.

Probably true. I certainly wouldn't rebuild somebody else's laptop
battery for them, but I might try it for my self.

| You MUST have proprietary information from the equipment vendor.

This will depend on what you're doing. Certainly, most NiCd/NiMH
packs use AA, AAA or subC cells and there's nothing special you need
to know there. But for the LiIon and Lipo packs, there may be
something special you should know. (And abusing these packs can cause
fires -- very bad.)

I know you mentioned LiIon cells specifically, but if you were to get
into the business, I suspect you'd be doing NiCd and NiMH batteries
too ..

| Some/many battery packs lose their brain when you disconnect the cells.

I've never run into that problem, though I don't doubt it exists.
I've even rebuilt some LiIon packs with good results, removing the
circuitry on the pack and putting it on a similar LiPoly cell. It's
not really pretty, but works well. The LiPoly cells I've bought had
solder tabs, which was nice.

| Nobody is ever happy with their device battery. Last place you
| want to be is in the middle. "Battery pack can't be repaired."
| "Whaddya mean, it worked when I sent it to you?".....
|
| Suggest you find a simpler business with less legal downside and fewer
| customer issues.

Probably good advice. But for your own use, rebuilding packs is a
great way to save money.

--
Doug McLaren,
Things just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister ...

Doug McLaren wrote:
In article , mike wrote:

| You MUST have a spot welder to connect the cells. DON'T LET ANYBODY
| TELL YOU OTHERWISE!!!!!

Here, I'm going to tell you otherwise.

I just love it!!!!

snip
But you can certainly solder your own battery packs together, and once
you get the hang of it, the odds of a bad pack are very low.
snip
I've made lots of them -- for radios, for R/C planes and transmitters,
for power tools, and have not had any problems beyond a small
percentage (10% ?) not making the grade once I ran them on the cycler.

There you go. 10% INITIAL failure rate. That's sure the way I want to
run MY business....


If you're afraid of soldering directly to the battery itself,

this is just nuts!!!


Probably true. I certainly wouldn't rebuild somebody else's laptop
battery for them, but I might try it for my self.

The above is the most telling part of your whole soldering suggestion.
Somehow I thought that rebuilding someone else's pack was necessary to
have a business...soldering is NOT acceptable.

If you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of me beating a dead
horse...
mike
--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links. Delete this sig when replying.
..
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
Wanted 12" LCD for Compaq Armada 7770MT.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
htremovethistp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

In article , mike wrote:

| Doug McLaren wrote:
| In article , mike wrote:
|
| | You MUST have a spot welder to connect the cells. DON'T LET ANYBODY
| | TELL YOU OTHERWISE!!!!!
|
| Here, I'm going to tell you otherwise.
|
| I just love it!!!!

I thought you might.

| snip
| But you can certainly solder your own battery packs together, and once
| you get the hang of it, the odds of a bad pack are very low.
| snip
| I've made lots of them -- for radios, for R/C planes and transmitters,
| for power tools, and have not had any problems beyond a small
| percentage (10% ?) not making the grade once I ran them on the cycler.
|
| There you go. 10% INITIAL failure rate. That's sure the way I want to
| run MY business....

You may not have read my post very carefully, so I'll reiterate the
really important part -- I wouldn't want to make a business out of it.
It's too labor intensive. I've already said that a few times, but
there, I've said it again.

As for the 10% failure rate, that's the number of packs that don't
cycle to their rated capacity. It could be that I ruined a cell, or
there was a cell bad to begin with, or I just didn't form the pack
properly (which is easy enough to fix), but unless I'm pretty
convinced that a pack is good it's not going up in an R/C plane.
(I might use it in a cordless phone or something, however.)

But I'm perfectly happy with not using a spot welder for my packs.
Things work quite well most of the time.

I also tend to use the cheapest batteries for non critical
applications (power tools, cordless phones, etc.) -- 700 mAh AA NiCd
cells from Harbor Freight Tools for $0.60/cell? Pretty cheap! I'm
not surprised if most of the failure rate is the fault of that.

For R/C packs, I prefer to get cells for a somewhat more reliable
source, and cycle them a few times before I use them -- the
consequences of a failure are higher there.

As for the 10% initial failure rate, once I get past that, I've found
that the failure rate is not really any different than cells that I've
bought at full price from people with spot welders. Batteries don't
last forever, and mine aren't any exception.

| If you're afraid of soldering directly to the battery itself,
|
| this is just nuts!!!

FUD often is. It's perfectly possible to make good battery packs
without a spot welder.

| Probably true. I certainly wouldn't rebuild somebody else's laptop
| battery for them, but I might try it for my self.
|
| The above is the most telling part of your whole soldering suggestion.

Laptops cram lots of little LiIon cells in there, with wierd sizes
(read: hard to find) and then they have more circuitry than anything
else to deal with. And if something fails, it could ruin an expensive
laptop. I'd risk my own laptop, but probably not somebody else's.

I don't have special insurance. (Remember, it's not a business.)

| Somehow I thought that rebuilding someone else's pack was necessary to
| have a business...soldering is NOT acceptable.

Again, I was just giving my personal experience -- I've probably made
at least 50 battery packs of various sorts by now. I've only done a
handful of LiPo packs, however, and found them to be harder to deal
with.

No, it's not a business. I wouldn't want to make a business out of it
-- the pay per hour would be too small to be worth it. But when I
rebuild a battery pack that would cost $40 for $6, I feel good about
it, even if it all took 30 minutes.

Now I've lost track ... how many times have I said I've not made a
business out of it, how many times have I said I don't want to make a
business out of it? Hopefully enough times.

| If you listen carefully, you can hear the sound of me beating a dead
| horse...

That's nice.

--
Doug McLaren,
The beatings will continue until morale improves!

In article ,
Doug McLaren wrote:
I also tend to use the cheapest batteries for non critical
applications (power tools, cordless phones, etc.) -- 700 mAh AA NiCd
cells from Harbor Freight Tools for $0.60/cell? Pretty cheap! I'm
not surprised if most of the failure rate is the fault of that.

Hmm. I've found the poor performance of cheap cordless power tools to be
more down to poor quality original cells than the motor or control gear.
Substituting Sanyo cells can sometimes bring the performance more inline
with a decent quality one. Like far better - and controllable - starting
torque in screwdriver mode, etc.

--
*Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:31:52 +0900, "SY Chun"
wrote:

Thank you all. It's very informative...

SY Chun

It takes a skilled refiller-shop with a spot welder, microwave
sealer, and cell stock at least 30 minutes to do the job on a
typical known (to the shop) laptop pack. A low-middle income
living at best if in a relatively low wage market with high laptop
penetration. That's assuming easy bulk cell supply, and as
pointed out here, no personal and liability insurance worries.
There's also the fact not all pack electronics will show the new
capacity correctly to factor in.

Thanks H!


"H. Dziardziel" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:31:52 +0900, "SY Chun"
wrote:

Thank you all. It's very informative...

SY Chun

It takes a skilled refiller-shop with a spot welder, microwave
sealer, and cell stock at least 30 minutes to do the job on a
typical known (to the shop) laptop pack. A low-middle income
living at best if in a relatively low wage market with high laptop
penetration. That's assuming easy bulk cell supply, and as
pointed out here, no personal and liability insurance worries.
There's also the fact not all pack electronics will show the new
capacity correctly to factor in.