This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

I'm no expert but I'd remove all the grease from the copper contacts,
(use alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, paint thinner, whatever, electrical
contact cleaner in a spray can but not WD40, even soap and water).
Grease (white) should go on the mechanical detents but not on the
copper contacts; they should remain dry.

Perhaps you can somehow bend the wiper a bit so it makes firmer
contact with all the positions (and the second in particular.)

meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2,

That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that is bad,
it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a time.

On some cars the resistors are built into the switch and in others there
is a separate resistor pack. You need to replace what ever has the
resistors in it. I don't recommend trying to replace the resistor, just buy
the pack or switch.

Note: Often this happens when the blower fan motor is starting to wear
out. If it were mine and unless it is easy to get to that resistor pack, I
would replace the motor and the resistor pack. If you can get to the
resistor pack easily, and you can on some cars, I might try just that, but I
suspect you will find it going out again in a matter of months.


the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

meirman wrote:

This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
Hi,
Usually the speed is controlled by seiries resistor with taps. Actually
the switch itself is changing the position of tap.
Tried local wrecking yard? Hard to believe #2 position contact is worn
to a point of high resistance with high current.
Maybe something wrong with wiring harness?
Tony

In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:37:09 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted:

meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



Thanks for replying.

My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2,

That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that is bad,
it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a time.

Thats what I thought at first, but

a) The switch tested bad in the second position only.

b) A friend gave me a control panel from a Chrysler Caravan truck that
he was scrapping**. The second fan speed, all the fan speeds work
fine with his control panel. (I can't just take the fan speed switch
from it because it won't fit in my heater control panel. And I can't
use his control panel because almost all the connections are different
in his control panel. The vacuum hoses are longer, not a problem;
the electrical connection might be in the same place; but the hot/cold
door control cable connects at the left rear corner instead of right
rear, and is meant to come in at a 90 degree different angle. I
tried to find some slack in the cable, but there isn't. (It's very
hard, almost too short, even to connect the cable to the control panel
it was designed for.)

The speed is controlled by the resistors, but if the switch is bad,
then no current will reach the intended place on the resistor pack.


**Same year and same appearance on the front of the control (except
my dim white letters and lines were bright white on his.) but behind
the face plate, a different style of control panel. Everything
rearranged.

On some cars the resistors are built into the switch and in others there
is a separate resistor pack. You need to replace what ever has the
resistors in it. I don't recommend trying to replace the resistor, just buy
the pack or switch.

Note: Often this happens when the blower fan motor is starting to wear
out. If it were mine and unless it is easy to get to that resistor pack, I

Actually, the resistor pack is rather hard to get to, but the bigger
trouble was that I loosened the screws for a long time, but neither
came out. Couldn't see the other side. But like I say, it works
with my friend's switch.

would replace the motor and the resistor pack. If you can get to the
resistor pack easily, and you can on some cars, I might try just that, but I
suspect you will find it going out again in a matter of months.


Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

I'm with the others-- it isn't the switch. Now
that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you
just stir up the grease as you did. If you want
to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease
with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be
great.

I go along with Meehan that it is the resistor.
If there are separate coils in the fan motor to
change speeds, a coil could be burned out, but
that isn't likely.

Bennett Price wrote:
I'm no expert but I'd remove all the grease from the copper contacts,
(use alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, paint thinner, whatever, electrical
contact cleaner in a spray can but not WD40, even soap and water).
Grease (white) should go on the mechanical detents but not on the
copper contacts; they should remain dry.

Perhaps you can somehow bend the wiper a bit so it makes firmer
contact with all the positions (and the second in particular.)

meirman wrote:

This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?
I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Grease is commonly used in high amp switches to
reduce contact burning/arcing. Removal of the
grease will lead to a short life.

look under the hood on right side the is a resi block in the firewall,
unplug remove two screws pull unit from fire wall.see if one of them is
smoked fried burnt. new block at dealer about 10.00 dollars!!!
stan

"meirman" wrote in message
...
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd
appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.



My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position
2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**.
I'm told the other speeds will fail soon.

With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old
grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny
when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little
bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden
match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or
anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that
would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either.

I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough,
the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance,
well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the
low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second
position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan
(though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get
a lower than max fan speed.)


**The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel
costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will
probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:21:14 GMT Bennett Price
posted:

I'm no expert but I'd remove all the grease from the copper contacts,
(use alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, paint thinner, whatever, electrical
contact cleaner in a spray can but not WD40, even soap and water).
Grease (white) should go on the mechanical detents but not on the
copper contacts; they should remain dry.

The thing is, it was made with lots of grease, a half a sewing
thimble-full or more spread out over the contacts.

What is all that grease there for? Don't I need it? -- I see that
George answered this. I think my tube of Schwinn grease was made
maybe 40 years ago. No silicone. But I don't mind getting some
silicone grease now. Better than spending 150 dollars.

Both my friend, who works on cars a lot, and the Chrysler parts guy
said that a junkyard switch would likely be a problem. Unless I can
find one from a low mileage car. Maybe.

One might think the Chrysler parts guy wanted to make a sale, but I
was pretty clear when I heard the price that I wasn't buying yet. And
still he didn't mind getting me the control panel, which I wanted to
see since there were two prices and I wanted to be sure which price my
style was, or putting the panel back in stock. He said a few years
ago they sold 50 of these a week, and that they started with one speed
bad but ended with all the speeds not working. He may have been
exaggerating about 50 a week, but je was very nice and I don't think
he was lying about anything including the junkyard ones.

Perhaps you can somehow bend the wiper a bit so it makes firmer
contact with all the positions (and the second in particular.)

I'll look at that.

Tomorrow I will test the switch with a load instead of a meter.

meirman wrote:
Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by
Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I can
buy something new.
....

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

The OP has already said he's tested the switch and found that position
#2 isn't functional (continuous), while the others are. I'd say it's
likely the guy knows how to use a meter, and therefore it's the grungy
contacts (and maybe degraded spring force) that are to blame.

I had an identical problem with a Volkswagen fan switch. I found the
contacts all green & crumbly from corrosion. I cleaned the contacts
using Flitz, sprayed it down with contact cleaner (Chem-clean, I think)
and reinstalled it. It worked fine from then on, for about 8 years.

I'd say avoid any lubricant at all. Just polish the contact areas &
reassemble.


What should I do?

Thanks for any help.

Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
would the manufacturer put it in there to start with.
Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put
grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet
the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even
a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher
amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater
fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much
shorter time.
electricitym
..
..

This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch contacts
is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK, but only there.

I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high melting
point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and reassembling.

David

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

. Now
that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you
just stir up the grease as you did. If you want
to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease
with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be
great.

Maybe, but I doubt it. My thoughts are that due to arcing etc the grease
that lubed the switch mech has melted and flowed to the contacts, casuing
more arcing etc etc

As far as I know grease is an insulator, not a conductor

David

wrote:

come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
would the manufacturer put it in there to start with.
Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put
grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet
the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even
a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher
amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater
fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much
shorter time.
electricitym
.
.

meirman wrote:
In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:37:09 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted:

meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home
or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and
I'd appreciate it.

Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to
remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease
should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch?

I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a
grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube
by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. Or I
can buy something new.



Thanks for replying.

My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in
position 2,

That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that
is bad, it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a
time.

Thats what I thought at first, but

a) The switch tested bad in the second position only.

That would be the case if the resistors were integrated in the switch.


b) A friend gave me a control panel from a Chrysler Caravan truck that
he was scrapping**. The second fan speed, all the fan speeds work
fine with his control panel. (I can't just take the fan speed switch
from it because it won't fit in my heater control panel. And I can't
use his control panel because almost all the connections are different
in his control panel. The vacuum hoses are longer, not a problem;
the electrical connection might be in the same place; but the hot/cold
door control cable connects at the left rear corner instead of right
rear, and is meant to come in at a 90 degree different angle. I
tried to find some slack in the cable, but there isn't. (It's very
hard, almost too short, even to connect the cable to the control panel
it was designed for.)

The speed is controlled by the resistors, but if the switch is bad,
then no current will reach the intended place on the resistor pack.

Have you established that there is a separate resistor pack? (It is
often located in the cool air stream to help cool them)

Assuming it is the switch, I would suggest replacing it rather then
trying to fix it. I have never need a car switch that was going to be easy
to fix.
Be sure to use a the special grease made to electrical contacts if you
decide that is needed.



**Same year and same appearance on the front of the control (except
my dim white letters and lines were bright white on his.) but behind
the face plate, a different style of control panel. Everything
rearranged.

On some cars the resistors are built into the switch and in
others there is a separate resistor pack. You need to replace what
ever has the resistors in it. I don't recommend trying to replace
the resistor, just buy the pack or switch.

Note: Often this happens when the blower fan motor is starting to
wear out. If it were mine and unless it is easy to get to that
resistor pack, I

Actually, the resistor pack is rather hard to get to, but the bigger
trouble was that I loosened the screws for a long time, but neither
came out. Couldn't see the other side. But like I say, it works
with my friend's switch.

would replace the motor and the resistor pack. If you can get to the
resistor pack easily, and you can on some cars, I might try just
that, but I suspect you will find it going out again in a matter of
months.


Meirman

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

quietguy wrote:
This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch
contacts is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK,
but only there.

I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high
melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and
reassembling.

The CRC would be good, You want to get all that WD-40 or whatever out
of there, followed with some real contact grease. Most auto shops carry it
today in small tubes for "lamps and connections"


David

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

. Now
that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you
just stir up the grease as you did. If you want
to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease
with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be
great.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote:
come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
would the manufacturer put it in there to start with.
Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put
grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet
the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure....
even a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the
higher amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the
heater fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a
much shorter time.
electricitym

Not all grease is created the same. You want to use only grease
designed for electrical work. It's cheap and you can find it at the auto
parts store.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

In article , wrote:

Both my friend, who works on cars a lot, and the Chrysler parts guy
said that a junkyard switch would likely be a problem. Unless I can
find one from a low mileage car. Maybe.

It's not that hard to find low-mileage wrecks in junkyards.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

quietguy/David wrote:

As far as I know grease is an insulator, not a conductor

==========

You will discover that manufacturers and wise repair people
use grease on many electrical applications.

Watch a pro work on an automobile "no start" problem and you
will most likely see him remove, clean and grease every contact
in the high current starting circuit. Proper operation of the circuit
isdependent upon extremely low resistence and the grease is there
to prevent the corrosion which will ruin that low resistence circuit.

Once again, as others have said, the optimal goal is to restore
the switch to the same condition that it was in when fresh from
the manufacturer, or install a replacement switch which meets
that condition. The OEM switch has a particular type of grease
in it. It is there for a reason. Emulate the manufacturer and do
the same.

Gideon

You are good some good advice here, which doesn't surprise me.

But you may still want to post the same question over at
rec.autos.makers.chrysler
rec.autos.tech

The folks over there may offer more experience with this particular
problem. You may want to cross-post to those two groups. You
may also cross-post to alt.home.repair & sci-electronics.repair
since some of us are interested in the opinions on this topic.

I've seen discussions before on your problem, which appears to be
well-known and common. You'll want to check the resister block
PLUS all electrical connections between the fan, resister block and
the blower motor. Sorry, I don't remember more on this issue since
I don't follow the auto groups on a regular basis. I do remember
that the "high" fan setting is usually the last to fail since it is the
setting which doesn't depend upon any resistors to limit current.

You could also try a "Google Groups" search to check on past
newsgroup discussions of this problem.

In your situation, I would:
1) Research via newsgroup questions and Google searches.
2) Clean switch contacts and reapply grease. I'd use a bit of PERC
on a Q-tip to remove grease from contacts. PERC is available
in some versions of electronics cleaners. It is also available
in the "chlorinated" versions of brake parts cleaners (on sale
currently at Car Quest for $1.59 per can). I'd clean contacts
with a bit of Lime-Away on a Q-Tip, followed by a final cleaning
with PERC on a Q-Tip. (I buy cans of "chlorinated" brake parts
cleaner by the dozen when it goes on sale).
3) If possible, check ohms on every resistor in the resistor bank.
Verify these readings against a published reference. Or go
to the dealer's parts department with your ohm meter to get
some reference readings.
4) Clean all electrical contacts in the switch-resistors-fan circuit.
Apply good grease to all contacts before reassembly.
5) If this doesn't help, I would also attempt to "jumper" across
switch position #2 to see if that runs the fan. If so, then it
would identify that the problem is in the switch. If not, then
there is a problem elsewhere - a bad contact or a bad resistor.
Always attempt to eliminate variables in this manner.

Good luck,
Gideon

Obviously you 'feel' a grungy contact is not good. It's
called being an old wife and promoting tales. It's dirty.
Therefore it must be bad.

As posted previously by others, that grease heavy on
contacts is there for good engineering reason. First learn
how contacts make and break electricity before just wildly
speculating. But to make it simpler to understand: remove
grease on those contacts to make switch fail fast.

Stop 'feeling' a conclusion. Stop using old wife
reasoning. Or even better, first buy new switches, break them
open, and learn before posting. Or read the informed post by
George E. Cawthon. High current contacts require a heavy glob
of grease (or something equivalent) to last. Did you also
know there are two types of switches and relays? Some that
can break a current. Others that can only be switched when no
current flows. Only the naive would assume 'dirty' means
'bad' - just like myths from an old wife.

quietguy wrote:
This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch
contacts is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is
OK, but only there.

I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little
high melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface,
and reassembling.

When did w_tom suggest tossing just any old grease into the switch?
Everything that he said should make sense to anybody who is
evenly marginally sentient.

=========================

Red Cloud lashed out:
w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in nature. They may
not mention this on thier labels. Some are dielectric when fresh, and become
conductive as they oxidize.

rusty redcloud.

My post was about people who 'feel' rather than first learn
facts. For some reason, Red Cloud has decided to use himself
as a perfect example. He immediately 'feels' I was discussing
dielectrics. Of course I was not. But then he knows because
he 'feels' that is what I must have been thinking. So why
does Red Cloud do this? Just another name and reason to
insult others. His name?

Red Cloud® posted using numerous names including
, Ekal Bnek, MaximumSmoke, and
. One poster even speculates that
BinaryBill also posted using the name Ken Blake. He has been
accused by Sirius, VWWall, Thor, etc of using pseudo names.
In a discussion entitled "Computer Fire Starts Flame War" in
alt.computer, others bluntly ask him (whoever he really is)
what his alter egos would think. Previous posts by BinaryBill
- now Red Cloud® - of insults are cited in that alt.computer
discussion at:
http://tinyurl.com/bjk8e

He even claimed to work with Grace Hopper on the original
computer called Eniac in the 1940s. Therefore he must know
something... about twisting the truth.

"Red Cloud®" wrote:
w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in
nature. They may not mention this on thier labels. Some are
dielectric when fresh, and become conductive as they oxidize.

quietguy wrote:
Maybe, but I doubt it. My thoughts are that due to arcing etc the grease
that lubed the switch mech has melted and flowed to the contacts, casuing
more arcing etc etc

As far as I know grease is an insulator, not a conductor

David

wrote:


come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
would the manufacturer put it in there to start with.
Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put
grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet
the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even
a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher
amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater
fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much
shorter time.
electricitym
.
.


I suggest you open and look at a few switches,
especially older ones that are designed to be
repaired.

In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:39:37 GMT Red Cloud®
posted:

On Sun, 22 May 2005 18:30:20 -0400, w_tom wrote:

My post was about people who 'feel' rather than first learn
facts. For some reason, Red Cloud has decided to use himself
as a perfect example.

Okay, then, w_tom, please show me, and everyone else, where you specified what
type of grease should be used in a switch, and it's characteristics. You can't.

You have a very long and colorful history in usenet of posting lengthy technical
answers that contain enough true information to make them seem believable, but
then you go further and add stuff that is completely and scientifically
unsupportable.

You have used this technique for years to post advice, which if followed, could
easily cause injury or death. I'm far from being the only one to point this out.
Due to the danger of your posts, I've collected a few over the years, including
responses of other very knowlegeable and sane people showing why you are so
dangerous. Shall I start posting a few of them?

So, where did you say what kind of grease to use? I'll be waiting, troll.

rusty redcloud

Well, I'm sorry to have started something that led to a fight.

My understanding of wtom's first post was that it was just meant to
contrdadict the poster before him who said that grease was bad. I
don't think wtom recommended any specific good grease, but I also
don't think he said any old grease would be all right.

And there was no need for wtom to suggest a grease, because 5 hours
earlier in the same subthread, Joseph had suggested a conductive
grease from the autoparts store.



Meirman
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 10:38:25 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted:

meirman wrote:
In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:37:09 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted:


Thanks for replying.

My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in
position 2,

That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that
is bad, it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a
time.

Thats what I thought at first, but

a) The switch tested bad in the second position only.

That would be the case if the resistors were integrated in the switch.

True, but they're not. They're under the dash, below the glove
compartement, with the resistors themselves in the air duct from the
outside. I think that is to help cool the resistors, which in my GM
cars were just wire coils suspended in air, with no non-conductor
surrounding them.

b) A friend gave me a control panel from a Chrysler Caravan truck that
he was scrapping**. The second fan speed, all the fan speeds work
fine with his control panel. (I can't just take the fan speed switch
from it because it won't fit in my heater control panel. And I can't
use his control panel because almost all the connections are different
in his control panel. The vacuum hoses are longer, not a problem;
the electrical connection might be in the same place; but the hot/cold
door control cable connects at the left rear corner instead of right
rear, and is meant to come in at a 90 degree different angle. I
tried to find some slack in the cable, but there isn't. (It's very
hard, almost too short, even to connect the cable to the control panel
it was designed for.)

The speed is controlled by the resistors, but if the switch is bad,
then no current will reach the intended place on the resistor pack.

Have you established that there is a separate resistor pack? (It is
often located in the cool air stream to help cool them)

LOL. I just said that!

Assuming it is the switch, I would suggest replacing it rather then
trying to fix it. I have never need a car switch that was going to be easy
to fix.
Be sure to use a the special grease made to electrical contacts if you
decide that is needed.



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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 10:40:55 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted:

quietguy wrote:
This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch
contacts is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK,
but only there.



I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high
melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and
reassembling.

The CRC would be good, You want to get all that WD-40 or whatever out
of there, followed with some real contact grease. Most auto shops carry it
today in small tubes for "lamps and connections"

Didn't know that. Good idea. That's another place I've seen grease,
you remind me. Inside lamp sockets, those that face tghe outside,
like turn signals.

Since that is not the usual case with these sockets, maybe the grease
is added to lamp sockets when there is water present that the mechanic
can't stop. ????



As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between
speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed
setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems
to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except
between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least
current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it
sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model
from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't
fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed
switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the
bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles.


I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I
don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than
necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together.

I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today,
and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling
flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it
worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the
other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had
10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect
the hot/cold lever) but something came up.



David

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

. Now
that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you
just stir up the grease as you did. If you want
to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease
with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be
great.


Meirman
--
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or not you are posting the same letter.
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You obviously DO NOT want a "conductive" grease in the switch.... it
would obviously short it all out... a standard silicon or petroleum
grease works great to lube the contact and helps it from oxidizing and
pitting. The higher amp rating of the switch, the heavier contact
pressure, the heavier the grease.
electricitym
..
..

The best contact cleaners for many switches and pots contain a
(non-conductive) lubricant that is left behind.... this protects the
contact from rapidly oxidizing and pitting. In the old rotary TV
tuners..... which contains multiple switch wiping contacts, a
lubricating contact cleaner was always used for smooth, reliable, and
long lasting repair.
You obviously DO NOT want to use a CONDUCTIVE grease.... this would
short everything out in a switch or pot.
A light grease is used for smaller low current applications and a
heavier grease is used for higher current applications.
Silicon greases are good but also many petroleum based greases can be
used.
electricitym
..
..
..

In alt.home.repair on 22 May 2005 18:53:54 -0700
posted:

You obviously DO NOT want a "conductive" grease in the switch.... it
would obviously short it all out... a standard silicon or petroleum

My gosh, you're right. I might have thought of this when I was
reading the label. Thanks.

grease works great to lube the contact and helps it from oxidizing and
pitting. The higher amp rating of the switch, the heavier contact
pressure, the heavier the grease.
electricitym
.
.


Meirman
--
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meirman wrote:
((snip))

As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between
speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed
setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems
to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except
between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least
current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it
sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model
from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't
fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed
switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the
bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles.

Boy are you optimistic! I've had older cars most
of my life, getting them at 50,000 miles or so
(5-10 years old)and getting rid of them at over
100,000 (12-29 years old). Only recently have I
ever had a problem with a heater switch. It was a
car 9 years old with about 40,000 miles on it.



I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I
don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than
necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together.

I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today,
and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling
flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it
worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the
other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had
10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect
the hot/cold lever) but something came up.

Glad to hear the switch is working, now to find
out if that was really the problem.



((snip))

Meirman
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Meirman wrote:
Well, I'm sorry to have started something that led to a fight.

My understanding of wtom's first post was that it was just
meant to contrdadict the poster before him who said that
grease was bad. I don't think wtom recommended any specific
good grease, but I also don't think he said any old grease
would be all right.

You did nothing to start a fight. BinaryBill - this time as
Red Cloud - is doing what he does routinely. When he does not
have facts, then he posts insults. There is no fight. There
is just BinaryBill again posting insults. He has a bruised
ego having been repeatedly challenged to provide facts after
claiming to have worked "with Grace Hopper on the original
computer called Eniac in the 1940s" and claiming a spike is a
DC voltage.

My first post was to remind quietguy that George E.
Cawthon had posted one day previous the technical reasons for
grease:
Grease is commonly used in high amp switches to reduce
contact burning/arcing.

George first learned science instead of speculating. That
was the point. One should first learn science rather than
just speculate using "old wive" techniques. A second point:
those who only post insults, never post numbers, and use
numerous aliases do not demonstrate technical knowledge ...
even if he did work with Grace Hopper on the Eniac. Meirman
need not apologize for fictions and insults from BinaryBill -
a.k.a. Red Cloud.

In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:14:07 -0400 meirman
posted:

In alt.home.repair on 22 May 2005 18:53:54 -0700
posted:

You obviously DO NOT want a "conductive" grease in the switch.... it
would obviously short it all out... a standard silicon or petroleum

My gosh, you're right. I might have thought of this when I was
reading the label. Thanks.

But I might not have, of course. I was just trying not to feel too
stupid.

grease works great to lube the contact and helps it from oxidizing and
pitting. The higher amp rating of the switch, the heavier contact
pressure, the heavier the grease.
electricitym
.
.


Meirman


Meirman
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One more point I don't want to be missed.

If there were an open in the resistor block, if speed number 2 didn't
work, then neither would speed number 1 (or speeds number 3 and 4,
depending on the design, although of speed number 1 is the lowest
speed, the simple design will probably always be like mine is.)

When I first diagnosed this, somehow I couldn't feel the air blowing
in speed 1, but it was.

That means it is the switch which is the problem.


And if I didn't say it already, the switch is designed so that in all
but from Off to speed 1, it makes before it breaks, which I think
would reduce to near zero the amount of sparking.


More below, continued to the end.


In alt.home.repair on Mon, 23 May 2005 04:07:50 GMT "George E.
Cawthon" posted:

meirman wrote:
((snip))

As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between
speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed
setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems
to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except
between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least
current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it
sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model
from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't
fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed
switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the
bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles.

Boy are you optimistic! I've had older cars most

Yes, I am. It's quite amazing at times. (And yet I can also be
cynic.)

of my life, getting them at 50,000 miles or so
(5-10 years old)and getting rid of them at over
100,000 (12-29 years old). Only recently have I
ever had a problem with a heater switch. It was a
car 9 years old with about 40,000 miles on it.

A sad commentary on car construction.

I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I
don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than
necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together.

I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today,
and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling
flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it
worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the
other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had
10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect
the hot/cold lever) but something came up.

Glad to hear the switch is working, now to find
out if that was really the problem.

Well, I wasn't convinced it was working when I posted the above. I've
tested things before and had them work on the bench but not where they
were supposed to. And this one passed the test, minus the air
compressor, the last time.

But today I put it in, and it works. If it breaks again, I'll try to
let you guys know.

I've been repairing things since I was 7 or 8, and for the first 9
years, more than half the time, all I did was take them apart, put
them back together again, and they worked. Not only did I not know
why, I was pretty sure I didn't do anything that would make them work.

That's happened since then too. When it does, sometimes it's mystical.
It's almost like I can lay hands on the thing and it will work.

I know that I'm not the only one with this experience.

Basically that's what happened the second time I took this control
unit out. The first time I cleaned it, pushed aside the hard grease,
but this time I really did nothing. I just made a bunch of
measurements, took the switch out of the unit and put it back again,
made more measurements. (and the one test).


Meirman
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Bit of a rave on there w_tom - don't get your knickers in such a knot,
especially when you are wrong.

While you would be correct if one was specifying electrical contact
grease, the post I responded to simply stated grease - and to most
people that means ordinary grease like one uses to grease wheel bearings
etc etc. Not the sort of crap to put in a switch

So, before spouting off, next time Tom have a look at the post that is
being responded to before you start 'feeling' like posting silly stuff

David

w_tom wrote:

Obviously you 'feel' a grungy contact is not good. It's
called being an old wife and promoting tales. It's dirty.
Therefore it must be bad.

As posted previously by others, that grease heavy on
contacts is there for good engineering reason. First learn
how contacts make and break electricity before just wildly
speculating. But to make it simpler to understand: remove
grease on those contacts to make switch fail fast.

Stop 'feeling' a conclusion. Stop using old wife
reasoning.

Maybe Tom didn't, but this guy did, and that is what I was responding to

David - who was cleaning and NOT GREASING tuner and potentiometer contacts
probably a long time before Tom was born

wrote:

come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
would the manufacturer put it in there to start with.
Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put
grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet
the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even
a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher
amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater
fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much
shorter time.
electricitym

Gideon wrote:

When did w_tom suggest tossing just any old grease into the switch?
Everything that he said should make sense to anybody who is
evenly marginally sentient.

=========================

Red Cloud lashed out:
w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in nature. They may
not mention this on thier labels. Some are dielectric when fresh, and become
conductive as they oxidize.

rusty redcloud.

The topic is about switch contacts. Problem involving
switch contacts are different from problems inside a
potentiometer. Why? 1) Voltage and current levels are
radically different. 2) Switches (unlike potentiometers)
involve sharp continuity changes. Neither problem applies to
potentiometers. Clearing or greasing a potentiometer has
nothing to do with arcing, contact bouncing, and other power
switch problems. Please don't change the topic to something
completely irrelevant.

You said "grease on the switch contacts is NOT a good
thing" You posted inaccurately even after others posted
otherwise. That grease in sufficient quantity is a good thing
- in direct contradiction to what quietguy posted. Others
already noted that grease on switch contacts is a good thing.
Please just admit the mistake rather confusing the issue with
a potentiometer. Your reference to potentiometer only serves
to confuse people rather than admit to your mistake.

quietguy wrote:
Bit of a rave on there w_tom - don't get your knickers in such a knot,
especially when you are wrong.

While you would be correct if one was specifying electrical contact
grease, the post I responded to simply stated grease - and to most
people that means ordinary grease like one uses to grease wheel bearings
etc etc. Not the sort of crap to put in a switch

So, before spouting off, next time Tom have a look at the post that is
being responded to before you start 'feeling' like posting silly stuff

David

w_tom wrote:

Obviously you 'feel' a grungy contact is not good. It's
called being an old wife and promoting tales. It's dirty.
Therefore it must be bad.

As posted previously by others, that grease heavy on
contacts is there for good engineering reason. First learn
how contacts make and break electricity before just wildly
speculating. But to make it simpler to understand: remove
grease on those contacts to make switch fail fast.

Stop 'feeling' a conclusion. Stop using old wife
reasoning.