Cleaning electrical switch.
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or
electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
I'm no expert but I'd remove all the grease from the copper contacts,
(use alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, paint thinner, whatever, electrical contact cleaner in a spray can but not WD40, even soap and water). Grease (white) should go on the mechanical detents but not on the copper contacts; they should remain dry. Perhaps you can somehow bend the wiper a bit so it makes firmer contact with all the positions (and the second in particular.) meirman wrote: This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that is bad, it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a time. On some cars the resistors are built into the switch and in others there is a separate resistor pack. You need to replace what ever has the resistors in it. I don't recommend trying to replace the resistor, just buy the pack or switch. Note: Often this happens when the blower fan motor is starting to wear out. If it were mine and unless it is easy to get to that resistor pack, I would replace the motor and the resistor pack. If you can get to the resistor pack easily, and you can on some cars, I might try just that, but I suspect you will find it going out again in a matter of months. the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. Hi, Usually the speed is controlled by seiries resistor with taps. Actually the switch itself is changing the position of tap. Tried local wrecking yard? Hard to believe #2 position contact is worn to a point of high resistance with high current. Maybe something wrong with wiring harness? Tony |
In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:37:09 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted: meirman wrote: This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. Thanks for replying. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that is bad, it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a time. Thats what I thought at first, but a) The switch tested bad in the second position only. b) A friend gave me a control panel from a Chrysler Caravan truck that he was scrapping**. The second fan speed, all the fan speeds work fine with his control panel. (I can't just take the fan speed switch from it because it won't fit in my heater control panel. And I can't use his control panel because almost all the connections are different in his control panel. The vacuum hoses are longer, not a problem; the electrical connection might be in the same place; but the hot/cold door control cable connects at the left rear corner instead of right rear, and is meant to come in at a 90 degree different angle. I tried to find some slack in the cable, but there isn't. (It's very hard, almost too short, even to connect the cable to the control panel it was designed for.) The speed is controlled by the resistors, but if the switch is bad, then no current will reach the intended place on the resistor pack. **Same year and same appearance on the front of the control (except my dim white letters and lines were bright white on his.) but behind the face plate, a different style of control panel. Everything rearranged. On some cars the resistors are built into the switch and in others there is a separate resistor pack. You need to replace what ever has the resistors in it. I don't recommend trying to replace the resistor, just buy the pack or switch. Note: Often this happens when the blower fan motor is starting to wear out. If it were mine and unless it is easy to get to that resistor pack, I Actually, the resistor pack is rather hard to get to, but the bigger trouble was that I loosened the screws for a long time, but neither came out. Couldn't see the other side. But like I say, it works with my friend's switch. would replace the motor and the resistor pack. If you can get to the resistor pack easily, and you can on some cars, I might try just that, but I suspect you will find it going out again in a matter of months. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
meirman wrote:
This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. I'm with the others-- it isn't the switch. Now that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you just stir up the grease as you did. If you want to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be great. I go along with Meehan that it is the resistor. If there are separate coils in the fan motor to change speeds, a coil could be burned out, but that isn't likely. |
Bennett Price wrote:
I'm no expert but I'd remove all the grease from the copper contacts, (use alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, paint thinner, whatever, electrical contact cleaner in a spray can but not WD40, even soap and water). Grease (white) should go on the mechanical detents but not on the copper contacts; they should remain dry. Perhaps you can somehow bend the wiper a bit so it makes firmer contact with all the positions (and the second in particular.) meirman wrote: This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. Grease is commonly used in high amp switches to reduce contact burning/arcing. Removal of the grease will lead to a short life. |
look under the hood on right side the is a resi block in the firewall,
unplug remove two screws pull unit from fire wall.see if one of them is smoked fried burnt. new block at dealer about 10.00 dollars!!! stan "meirman" wrote in message ... This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, the one I use most often. A new replacement is very expensive**. I'm told the other speeds will fail soon. With the switch dissassembled, it looks fine. There is some old grease on the contacts, now darker than new, but was brown and shiny when new. It is now, at least on the surfaces of the grease, a little bit harder than new, but when I push aside the grease with a wooden match stick stem, the copper contact underneath shows no burning or anything unusual. It's not as shiny as new, but I didn't think that would matter, since I'm sure the other three speeds aren't either. I thought just mixing up the grease would be enough, and sure enough, the meter had shown infinity but now showed almost zero resistance, well under an ohm.. After reassembly it still tested good (with the low current used by meters) but after reinstallation, again the second position of the switch didn't work, not enough to power the fan (though the separate resistor that is used to lower the voltage to get a lower than max fan speed.) **The switch is not sold separately and a whole new control panel costs 150 or 250 dollars. If I buy from a junkyard, I'm told it will probably already not work for the same reason mine doesn't. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:21:14 GMT Bennett Price
posted: I'm no expert but I'd remove all the grease from the copper contacts, (use alcohol, kerosene, gasoline, paint thinner, whatever, electrical contact cleaner in a spray can but not WD40, even soap and water). Grease (white) should go on the mechanical detents but not on the copper contacts; they should remain dry. The thing is, it was made with lots of grease, a half a sewing thimble-full or more spread out over the contacts. What is all that grease there for? Don't I need it? -- I see that George answered this. I think my tube of Schwinn grease was made maybe 40 years ago. No silicone. But I don't mind getting some silicone grease now. Better than spending 150 dollars. Both my friend, who works on cars a lot, and the Chrysler parts guy said that a junkyard switch would likely be a problem. Unless I can find one from a low mileage car. Maybe. One might think the Chrysler parts guy wanted to make a sale, but I was pretty clear when I heard the price that I wasn't buying yet. And still he didn't mind getting me the control panel, which I wanted to see since there were two prices and I wanted to be sure which price my style was, or putting the panel back in stock. He said a few years ago they sold 50 of these a week, and that they started with one speed bad but ended with all the speeds not working. He may have been exaggerating about 50 a week, but je was very nice and I don't think he was lying about anything including the junkyard ones. Perhaps you can somehow bend the wiper a bit so it makes firmer contact with all the positions (and the second in particular.) I'll look at that. Tomorrow I will test the switch with a load instead of a meter. meirman wrote: Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. .... Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
The OP has already said he's tested the switch and found that position #2 isn't functional (continuous), while the others are. I'd say it's likely the guy knows how to use a meter, and therefore it's the grungy contacts (and maybe degraded spring force) that are to blame. I had an identical problem with a Volkswagen fan switch. I found the contacts all green & crumbly from corrosion. I cleaned the contacts using Flitz, sprayed it down with contact cleaner (Chem-clean, I think) and reinstalled it. It worked fine from then on, for about 8 years. I'd say avoid any lubricant at all. Just polish the contact areas & reassemble. What should I do? Thanks for any help. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
would the manufacturer put it in there to start with. Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much shorter time. electricitym .. .. |
This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch contacts
is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK, but only there. I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and reassembling. David "George E. Cawthon" wrote: . Now that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you just stir up the grease as you did. If you want to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be great. |
Maybe, but I doubt it. My thoughts are that due to arcing etc the grease
that lubed the switch mech has melted and flowed to the contacts, casuing more arcing etc etc As far as I know grease is an insulator, not a conductor David wrote: come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why would the manufacturer put it in there to start with. Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much shorter time. electricitym . . |
meirman wrote:
In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:37:09 GMT "Joseph Meehan" posted: meirman wrote: This is about about my car heater fan. It's not really about home or electronics repair, but I think you will be able to help me, and I'd appreciate it. Can I regrease my electric switch? And if so, what should I use to remove the old grease? And more importantly, what sort of grease should I then use to regrease this 12 volt switch? I have white grease, lithium grease, ball joint etc. grease (in a grease gun), some wheel bearing grease, "bicycle" grease in a tube by Schwinn, and maybe one more kind. I even have Crisco. :) Or I can buy something new. Thanks for replying. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that is bad, it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a time. Thats what I thought at first, but a) The switch tested bad in the second position only. That would be the case if the resistors were integrated in the switch. b) A friend gave me a control panel from a Chrysler Caravan truck that he was scrapping**. The second fan speed, all the fan speeds work fine with his control panel. (I can't just take the fan speed switch from it because it won't fit in my heater control panel. And I can't use his control panel because almost all the connections are different in his control panel. The vacuum hoses are longer, not a problem; the electrical connection might be in the same place; but the hot/cold door control cable connects at the left rear corner instead of right rear, and is meant to come in at a 90 degree different angle. I tried to find some slack in the cable, but there isn't. (It's very hard, almost too short, even to connect the cable to the control panel it was designed for.) The speed is controlled by the resistors, but if the switch is bad, then no current will reach the intended place on the resistor pack. Have you established that there is a separate resistor pack? (It is often located in the cool air stream to help cool them) Assuming it is the switch, I would suggest replacing it rather then trying to fix it. I have never need a car switch that was going to be easy to fix. Be sure to use a the special grease made to electrical contacts if you decide that is needed. **Same year and same appearance on the front of the control (except my dim white letters and lines were bright white on his.) but behind the face plate, a different style of control panel. Everything rearranged. On some cars the resistors are built into the switch and in others there is a separate resistor pack. You need to replace what ever has the resistors in it. I don't recommend trying to replace the resistor, just buy the pack or switch. Note: Often this happens when the blower fan motor is starting to wear out. If it were mine and unless it is easy to get to that resistor pack, I Actually, the resistor pack is rather hard to get to, but the bigger trouble was that I loosened the screws for a long time, but neither came out. Couldn't see the other side. But like I say, it works with my friend's switch. would replace the motor and the resistor pack. If you can get to the resistor pack easily, and you can on some cars, I might try just that, but I suspect you will find it going out again in a matter of months. Meirman -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
quietguy wrote:
This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch contacts is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK, but only there. I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and reassembling. The CRC would be good, You want to get all that WD-40 or whatever out of there, followed with some real contact grease. Most auto shops carry it today in small tubes for "lamps and connections" David "George E. Cawthon" wrote: . Now that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you just stir up the grease as you did. If you want to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be great. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
|
|
quietguy/David wrote: As far as I know grease is an insulator, not a conductor ========== You will discover that manufacturers and wise repair people use grease on many electrical applications. Watch a pro work on an automobile "no start" problem and you will most likely see him remove, clean and grease every contact in the high current starting circuit. Proper operation of the circuit isdependent upon extremely low resistence and the grease is there to prevent the corrosion which will ruin that low resistence circuit. Once again, as others have said, the optimal goal is to restore the switch to the same condition that it was in when fresh from the manufacturer, or install a replacement switch which meets that condition. The OEM switch has a particular type of grease in it. It is there for a reason. Emulate the manufacturer and do the same. Gideon |
You are good some good advice here, which doesn't surprise me.
But you may still want to post the same question over at rec.autos.makers.chrysler rec.autos.tech The folks over there may offer more experience with this particular problem. You may want to cross-post to those two groups. You may also cross-post to alt.home.repair & sci-electronics.repair since some of us are interested in the opinions on this topic. I've seen discussions before on your problem, which appears to be well-known and common. You'll want to check the resister block PLUS all electrical connections between the fan, resister block and the blower motor. Sorry, I don't remember more on this issue since I don't follow the auto groups on a regular basis. I do remember that the "high" fan setting is usually the last to fail since it is the setting which doesn't depend upon any resistors to limit current. You could also try a "Google Groups" search to check on past newsgroup discussions of this problem. In your situation, I would: 1) Research via newsgroup questions and Google searches. 2) Clean switch contacts and reapply grease. I'd use a bit of PERC on a Q-tip to remove grease from contacts. PERC is available in some versions of electronics cleaners. It is also available in the "chlorinated" versions of brake parts cleaners (on sale currently at Car Quest for $1.59 per can). I'd clean contacts with a bit of Lime-Away on a Q-Tip, followed by a final cleaning with PERC on a Q-Tip. (I buy cans of "chlorinated" brake parts cleaner by the dozen when it goes on sale). 3) If possible, check ohms on every resistor in the resistor bank. Verify these readings against a published reference. Or go to the dealer's parts department with your ohm meter to get some reference readings. 4) Clean all electrical contacts in the switch-resistors-fan circuit. Apply good grease to all contacts before reassembly. 5) If this doesn't help, I would also attempt to "jumper" across switch position #2 to see if that runs the fan. If so, then it would identify that the problem is in the switch. If not, then there is a problem elsewhere - a bad contact or a bad resistor. Always attempt to eliminate variables in this manner. Good luck, Gideon |
Obviously you 'feel' a grungy contact is not good. It's
called being an old wife and promoting tales. It's dirty. Therefore it must be bad. As posted previously by others, that grease heavy on contacts is there for good engineering reason. First learn how contacts make and break electricity before just wildly speculating. But to make it simpler to understand: remove grease on those contacts to make switch fail fast. Stop 'feeling' a conclusion. Stop using old wife reasoning. Or even better, first buy new switches, break them open, and learn before posting. Or read the informed post by George E. Cawthon. High current contacts require a heavy glob of grease (or something equivalent) to last. Did you also know there are two types of switches and relays? Some that can break a current. Others that can only be switched when no current flows. Only the naive would assume 'dirty' means 'bad' - just like myths from an old wife. quietguy wrote: This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch contacts is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK, but only there. I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and reassembling. |
When did w_tom suggest tossing just any old grease into the switch?
Everything that he said should make sense to anybody who is evenly marginally sentient. ========================= Red Cloud lashed out: w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in nature. They may not mention this on thier labels. Some are dielectric when fresh, and become conductive as they oxidize. rusty redcloud. |
My post was about people who 'feel' rather than first learn
facts. For some reason, Red Cloud has decided to use himself as a perfect example. He immediately 'feels' I was discussing dielectrics. Of course I was not. But then he knows because he 'feels' that is what I must have been thinking. So why does Red Cloud do this? Just another name and reason to insult others. His name? Red Cloud® posted using numerous names including , Ekal Bnek, MaximumSmoke, and . One poster even speculates that BinaryBill also posted using the name Ken Blake. He has been accused by Sirius, VWWall, Thor, etc of using pseudo names. In a discussion entitled "Computer Fire Starts Flame War" in alt.computer, others bluntly ask him (whoever he really is) what his alter egos would think. Previous posts by BinaryBill - now Red Cloud® - of insults are cited in that alt.computer discussion at: http://tinyurl.com/bjk8e He even claimed to work with Grace Hopper on the original computer called Eniac in the 1940s. Therefore he must know something... about twisting the truth. "Red Cloud®" wrote: w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in nature. They may not mention this on thier labels. Some are dielectric when fresh, and become conductive as they oxidize. |
quietguy wrote:
Maybe, but I doubt it. My thoughts are that due to arcing etc the grease that lubed the switch mech has melted and flowed to the contacts, casuing more arcing etc etc As far as I know grease is an insulator, not a conductor David wrote: come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why would the manufacturer put it in there to start with. Even in low amperage switches like "mode switches" in VCR's they put grease in there to not only reduce the friction and wear but to keet the contacts from oxidizing..... put grease in there for sure.... even a heavier general purpose grease would be just fine for the higher amperage and heavier contact spring tension switch like in the heater fan switch. If you run it dry, you will lose the switch in a much shorter time. electricitym . . I suggest you open and look at a few switches, especially older ones that are designed to be repaired. |
|
In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 10:38:25 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted: meirman wrote: In alt.home.repair on Sat, 21 May 2005 22:37:09 GMT "Joseph Meehan" posted: Thanks for replying. My '95 Chrysler heater/AC fan speed switch no longer works in position 2, That is the answer to your question. It is not the switch that is bad, it is a resistor that is gone. They tend to fail one at a time. Thats what I thought at first, but a) The switch tested bad in the second position only. That would be the case if the resistors were integrated in the switch. True, but they're not. They're under the dash, below the glove compartement, with the resistors themselves in the air duct from the outside. I think that is to help cool the resistors, which in my GM cars were just wire coils suspended in air, with no non-conductor surrounding them. b) A friend gave me a control panel from a Chrysler Caravan truck that he was scrapping**. The second fan speed, all the fan speeds work fine with his control panel. (I can't just take the fan speed switch from it because it won't fit in my heater control panel. And I can't use his control panel because almost all the connections are different in his control panel. The vacuum hoses are longer, not a problem; the electrical connection might be in the same place; but the hot/cold door control cable connects at the left rear corner instead of right rear, and is meant to come in at a 90 degree different angle. I tried to find some slack in the cable, but there isn't. (It's very hard, almost too short, even to connect the cable to the control panel it was designed for.) The speed is controlled by the resistors, but if the switch is bad, then no current will reach the intended place on the resistor pack. Have you established that there is a separate resistor pack? (It is often located in the cool air stream to help cool them) LOL. I just said that! Assuming it is the switch, I would suggest replacing it rather then trying to fix it. I have never need a car switch that was going to be easy to fix. Be sure to use a the special grease made to electrical contacts if you decide that is needed. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 10:40:55 GMT "Joseph Meehan"
posted: quietguy wrote: This advice does not seem appropriate to me - grease on the switch contacts is NOT a good thing - a little grease on the rocker is OK, but only there. I would suggest cleaning the contacts with CRC, apply a little high melting point grease (silicon?) to the rocker bearing surface, and reassembling. The CRC would be good, You want to get all that WD-40 or whatever out of there, followed with some real contact grease. Most auto shops carry it today in small tubes for "lamps and connections" Didn't know that. Good idea. That's another place I've seen grease, you remind me. Inside lamp sockets, those that face tghe outside, like turn signals. Since that is not the usual case with these sockets, maybe the grease is added to lamp sockets when there is water present that the mechanic can't stop. ???? As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles. I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together. I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today, and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had 10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect the hot/cold lever) but something came up. David "George E. Cawthon" wrote: . Now that you've got the switch apart, I suggest you just stir up the grease as you did. If you want to clean it, spray it with WD-40, then regrease with a silicone grease-- bicycle grease would be great. Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
You obviously DO NOT want a "conductive" grease in the switch.... it
would obviously short it all out... a standard silicon or petroleum grease works great to lube the contact and helps it from oxidizing and pitting. The higher amp rating of the switch, the heavier contact pressure, the heavier the grease. electricitym .. .. |
The best contact cleaners for many switches and pots contain a
(non-conductive) lubricant that is left behind.... this protects the contact from rapidly oxidizing and pitting. In the old rotary TV tuners..... which contains multiple switch wiping contacts, a lubricating contact cleaner was always used for smooth, reliable, and long lasting repair. You obviously DO NOT want to use a CONDUCTIVE grease.... this would short everything out in a switch or pot. A light grease is used for smaller low current applications and a heavier grease is used for higher current applications. Silicon greases are good but also many petroleum based greases can be used. electricitym .. .. .. |
|
meirman wrote:
((snip)) As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles. Boy are you optimistic! I've had older cars most of my life, getting them at 50,000 miles or so (5-10 years old)and getting rid of them at over 100,000 (12-29 years old). Only recently have I ever had a problem with a heater switch. It was a car 9 years old with about 40,000 miles on it. I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together. I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today, and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had 10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect the hot/cold lever) but something came up. Glad to hear the switch is working, now to find out if that was really the problem. ((snip)) Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
Meirman wrote:
Well, I'm sorry to have started something that led to a fight. My understanding of wtom's first post was that it was just meant to contrdadict the poster before him who said that grease was bad. I don't think wtom recommended any specific good grease, but I also don't think he said any old grease would be all right. You did nothing to start a fight. BinaryBill - this time as Red Cloud - is doing what he does routinely. When he does not have facts, then he posts insults. There is no fight. There is just BinaryBill again posting insults. He has a bruised ego having been repeatedly challenged to provide facts after claiming to have worked "with Grace Hopper on the original computer called Eniac in the 1940s" and claiming a spike is a DC voltage. My first post was to remind quietguy that George E. Cawthon had posted one day previous the technical reasons for grease: Grease is commonly used in high amp switches to reduce contact burning/arcing. George first learned science instead of speculating. That was the point. One should first learn science rather than just speculate using "old wive" techniques. A second point: those who only post insults, never post numbers, and use numerous aliases do not demonstrate technical knowledge ... even if he did work with Grace Hopper on the Eniac. Meirman need not apologize for fictions and insults from BinaryBill - a.k.a. Red Cloud. |
In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:14:07 -0400 meirman
posted: In alt.home.repair on 22 May 2005 18:53:54 -0700 posted: You obviously DO NOT want a "conductive" grease in the switch.... it would obviously short it all out... a standard silicon or petroleum My gosh, you're right. I might have thought of this when I was reading the label. Thanks. But I might not have, of course. I was just trying not to feel too stupid. :) grease works great to lube the contact and helps it from oxidizing and pitting. The higher amp rating of the switch, the heavier contact pressure, the heavier the grease. electricitym . . Meirman Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
One more point I don't want to be missed. If there were an open in the resistor block, if speed number 2 didn't work, then neither would speed number 1 (or speeds number 3 and 4, depending on the design, although of speed number 1 is the lowest speed, the simple design will probably always be like mine is.) When I first diagnosed this, somehow I couldn't feel the air blowing in speed 1, but it was. That means it is the switch which is the problem. And if I didn't say it already, the switch is designed so that in all but from Off to speed 1, it makes before it breaks, which I think would reduce to near zero the amount of sparking. More below, continued to the end. In alt.home.repair on Mon, 23 May 2005 04:07:50 GMT "George E. Cawthon" posted: meirman wrote: ((snip)) As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles. Boy are you optimistic! I've had older cars most Yes, I am. It's quite amazing at times. (And yet I can also be cynic.) of my life, getting them at 50,000 miles or so (5-10 years old)and getting rid of them at over 100,000 (12-29 years old). Only recently have I ever had a problem with a heater switch. It was a car 9 years old with about 40,000 miles on it. A sad commentary on car construction. I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together. I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today, and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had 10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect the hot/cold lever) but something came up. Glad to hear the switch is working, now to find out if that was really the problem. Well, I wasn't convinced it was working when I posted the above. I've tested things before and had them work on the bench but not where they were supposed to. And this one passed the test, minus the air compressor, the last time. But today I put it in, and it works. If it breaks again, I'll try to let you guys know. I've been repairing things since I was 7 or 8, and for the first 9 years, more than half the time, all I did was take them apart, put them back together again, and they worked. Not only did I not know why, I was pretty sure I didn't do anything that would make them work. That's happened since then too. When it does, sometimes it's mystical. It's almost like I can lay hands on the thing and it will work. :) I know that I'm not the only one with this experience. Basically that's what happened the second time I took this control unit out. The first time I cleaned it, pushed aside the hard grease, but this time I really did nothing. I just made a bunch of measurements, took the switch out of the unit and put it back again, made more measurements. (and the one test). Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary. |
Bit of a rave on there w_tom - don't get your knickers in such a knot,
especially when you are wrong. While you would be correct if one was specifying electrical contact grease, the post I responded to simply stated grease - and to most people that means ordinary grease like one uses to grease wheel bearings etc etc. Not the sort of crap to put in a switch So, before spouting off, next time Tom have a look at the post that is being responded to before you start 'feeling' like posting silly stuff David w_tom wrote: Obviously you 'feel' a grungy contact is not good. It's called being an old wife and promoting tales. It's dirty. Therefore it must be bad. As posted previously by others, that grease heavy on contacts is there for good engineering reason. First learn how contacts make and break electricity before just wildly speculating. But to make it simpler to understand: remove grease on those contacts to make switch fail fast. Stop 'feeling' a conclusion. Stop using old wife reasoning. |
The topic is about switch contacts. Problem involving
switch contacts are different from problems inside a potentiometer. Why? 1) Voltage and current levels are radically different. 2) Switches (unlike potentiometers) involve sharp continuity changes. Neither problem applies to potentiometers. Clearing or greasing a potentiometer has nothing to do with arcing, contact bouncing, and other power switch problems. Please don't change the topic to something completely irrelevant. You said "grease on the switch contacts is NOT a good thing" You posted inaccurately even after others posted otherwise. That grease in sufficient quantity is a good thing - in direct contradiction to what quietguy posted. Others already noted that grease on switch contacts is a good thing. Please just admit the mistake rather confusing the issue with a potentiometer. Your reference to potentiometer only serves to confuse people rather than admit to your mistake. quietguy wrote: Bit of a rave on there w_tom - don't get your knickers in such a knot, especially when you are wrong. While you would be correct if one was specifying electrical contact grease, the post I responded to simply stated grease - and to most people that means ordinary grease like one uses to grease wheel bearings etc etc. Not the sort of crap to put in a switch So, before spouting off, next time Tom have a look at the post that is being responded to before you start 'feeling' like posting silly stuff David w_tom wrote: Obviously you 'feel' a grungy contact is not good. It's called being an old wife and promoting tales. It's dirty. Therefore it must be bad. As posted previously by others, that grease heavy on contacts is there for good engineering reason. First learn how contacts make and break electricity before just wildly speculating. But to make it simpler to understand: remove grease on those contacts to make switch fail fast. Stop 'feeling' a conclusion. Stop using old wife reasoning. |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:41 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter