On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Both wires are covered with different color enamel. You can likely apply
solder directly to the wires and the heat will burn off the enamel while the
flux does its job. Some enamels are designed that way.



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------

As another poster has suggested, the heat of a soldering tip
may do the job - indeed some fine wire enamels are designed
to convert to a soldering flux on the application of a hot
iron. Dipping the end of the wire in a solder pot for a few
seconds should od the job too.

If you cannot apply heat, then nail varnish remover can work
very well. It may wick up the strands though. Applying a
drop of candle wax first and stripping and trimming back to
the wax should work.

If you don't have nail varnish remover, then I guess paint
stripper may do the job..but nail varnish comes with a handy
applicator brush.

Another thing that can work is a gas blowtorch with a
catalytic converter nozzle that turns it into a tiny hot air
gun. Loads enough temperature to remove insulation (or
heat-shrink tiny sleeves or in a confined space).

--

Sue

In article ,
Boris Mohar wrote:
Both wires are covered with different color enamel. You can likely
apply solder directly to the wires and the heat will burn off the
enamel while the flux does its job. Some enamels are designed that way.

They might be. However, the standard way is to burn them off with
something like a cigarette lighter.

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Palindr?me wrote:
Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been
cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I
will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and
is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR
is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to
the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.
Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being
too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather
than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is
still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to
the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the
wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------


As another poster has suggested, the heat of a soldering tip may do the
job - indeed some fine wire enamels are designed to convert to a
soldering flux on the application of a hot iron. Dipping the end of the
wire in a solder pot for a few seconds should od the job too.

If you cannot apply heat, then nail varnish remover can work very well.
It may wick up the strands though. Applying a drop of candle wax first
and stripping and trimming back to the wax should work.

If you don't have nail varnish remover, then I guess paint stripper may
do the job..but nail varnish comes with a handy applicator brush.

Another thing that can work is a gas blowtorch with a catalytic
converter nozzle that turns it into a tiny hot air gun. Loads enough
temperature to remove insulation (or heat-shrink tiny sleeves or in a
confined space).

Hi...

Another idea that's worked for me is to simply 'worry' the
ends gently with a pair of long-nose.

The idea is to slightly crush (over and over the strands,
so that the enamel cracks and falls off, leaving the
more flexible copper intact.

Good luck and take care.

Ken

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:


The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Enamel is likely present on both conductors - the 'bare' group's
enamel is just not dyed with distinctive color pigments.

Tin the leads using a soldering iron tip loaded with fluxed solder,
starting from the cut end, where heat transfer to the copper is
facilitated by direct contact. If there are a lot of wires, a solder
pot speeds things up - dip in flux, then dip in the solder pot.

Do not overheat. Better to repeat the process, with fresh solder and a
clean tip, than to persist with a hot tip that has burned out of flux.

The enamel used in commercial equipment is designed for solderability.
Larger bundles of litz, or wires with heavy enamel, may require that
this operation be repeated to contact all internal wires in the
bundle. In this case, abrading the tip to increase bare copper surface
area reduces time in the soldering operation.

Use of an open flame will contaminate, weaken and oxidize the
conductors, making them harder to eventually solder.

RL

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------
I've done this several times. The technique used is to put the tip of
the soldering iron under the wire so that it just touches it. Then
apply solder and it will melt on the iron tip and surround the wire.
You will see a little dimple where the wire enters the solder blob.
When the laquer burns away this dimple will disappear and the solder
will flow a little way along the wire. Remember you will be burning
off the laquer and the plastic fibers. After tinning all the wires
then they can be soldered together. BTW, I think Sony uses clear,
green, and red laquer. The wire with the clear laquer will appear to
be bright copper but is actually coated. This wire is the common.
ERS

"legg" wrote in message
...

The enamel used in commercial equipment is designed for solderability.
Larger bundles of litz ...

It's more likely to be tinsel wire.
--
N

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------


This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do
manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually
crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel.

John

"Will" wrote in message
...

Yup this worked a treat for me! I never realised I could solder
straight onto this stuff by letting the heat of the iron remove
the enamel.

This is known as "self fluxing enamel". Doesn't work on the old style stuff
though.
--
N

"Will" wrote in message
...
I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

I'm at a los as to why you're posting this to a component newsgroup; it
should only be in sci.electronics.repair. But anyway, each of the
enameled wires is a separate conductor, and should be separate from one
another. Like green might be left, and red right. And the other bare
wires are the common or ground.


----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------

On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:06:32 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------


This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do
manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually
crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel.

Tinsel wire is characterized by it's flat spiral winding around the
core. It is not enameled and each conductor will be insulated
conventionally.

It is solderable, but requires mechanical security to prevent
vibration at the SJ. A crimped contact requires the same stress
relief.

The OPs wire is not tinsel wire.

RL

On Sun, 15 May 2005 03:49:53 GMT, legg wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:06:32 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------


This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do
manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually
crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel.

Tinsel wire is characterized by it's flat spiral winding around the
core. It is not enameled and each conductor will be insulated
conventionally.

It is solderable, but requires mechanical security to prevent
vibration at the SJ. A crimped contact requires the same stress
relief.

The OPs wire is not tinsel wire.


Oh, don't be crabby. It's a lot of fine conductors woven around a
fibrous insulating core, and it's not very solderable. So it might as
well be tinsel.

So, what's the absolutely correct name for this construction?

John

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------


It's easier and better to just replace the entire headphone cable.
Get oneoff a pair of cheapo headphones.(I get them for a buck at my
local dollar tree and just desolder the leads at the transducers.)
As for removing the varnish insulation you canuse a standard exacto
knife and gently scrape it away or a clean solder tip to burn it off.
Resolder the leads to the Sony transducer elements using a 20-30 watt
soldering pencil, any higher will just melt half the project.(You can
also use a hemostat clamped on the downside of the wire to act as a
heatsink to keep from melting any of the lead.)
Helps to use a good brand of flux and solder.(I use a high silver
content solder, not the 60/40 tin/lead stuff.)

My experience with Sony headphones was as above G=left, Red=Right &
Copper=Common. Sometimes they're actually all wound together, you just
need to tease the colors out. I've usually tinned them using a gun.
Also check the cord down aways as there is probably damage further
along.
All the tinsel cord I've seen used crimp connections or mechanicaly
attached plugs. That goes back to the '50s and my crystal radio set.
My stepdaughter dances around her room with her headphones on. I've
repaired the cord ~ 10 times.
Richard

"spudnuty" wrote in message
ups.com...
My experience with Sony headphones was as above G=left, Red=Right &
Copper=Common. Sometimes they're actually all wound together, you just
need to tease the colors out. I've usually tinned them using a gun.
Also check the cord down aways as there is probably damage further
along.
All the tinsel cord I've seen used crimp connections or mechanicaly
attached plugs. That goes back to the '50s and my crystal radio set.
My stepdaughter dances around her room with her headphones on. I've
repaired the cord ~ 10 times.
Richard

Same here in the Atari 2600 and Super Mario Bros years back in the '70s,
when a neighbor bought one for his kids. I must've repaired the
joystick at least a half dozen times.

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

Same here in the Atari 2600 and Super Mario Bros years back in the '70s,
when a neighbor bought one for his kids. I must've repaired the
joystick at least a half dozen times.

My kids were just hitting their teens when the Atari 2600 came
along. We bought one, and it was almost never turned off...
After two power supplies burned out, I built a supply robust
enough to last. The joysticks and the switches on the main unit
were all rebuilt *many* times. That Atari finally just got too
hard to maintain, and we bought another one and, except for the
power supply problem, started the whole sequence again.

It was fascinating to watch the kids learn to fix those things.
Initially I had to work on it, but it wasn't long before they
did all the repair work.

Another fun thing about that Atari was the process that we went
through with every new game. I could understand the
instructions better, so I'd win at most of the games... for
about the first half a dozen iterations. That's when the kids
would catch up in understanding what the point of the game was.
Then their reflexes took over, and by the time they had the
experience of maybe 10 or 12 games, there was simply no point in
me even attempting to play against them.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Back in the olden days when we wuz young we used to wind coils with litz wire
- which resembles the wire you describe - when soldering we didn't take the
trouble to bare each individual strand, but rather used very fine wet and dry
to gently clean the wire treating it as if it was one conductor. Worked
pretty well.

So, you could try this easy/lazy/can't be bothered way and see how it goes

David

On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:31:18 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2005 03:49:53 GMT, legg wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:06:32 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:

I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has
been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires
(which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion).

The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is
more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a
dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine
threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The
threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'.

The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper
and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER
CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder
to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Below is what I have tried.

Can you advise?

Will

----------------------------

Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am
being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success:

(1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires
rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't
break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner
sides of the fine wires.

(2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black
deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back
to the beginning.

(3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through
the wires.

----------------- END -----------------------------


This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do
manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually
crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel.

Tinsel wire is characterized by it's flat spiral winding around the
core. It is not enameled and each conductor will be insulated
conventionally.

It is solderable, but requires mechanical security to prevent
vibration at the SJ. A crimped contact requires the same stress
relief.

The OPs wire is not tinsel wire.


Oh, don't be crabby. It's a lot of fine conductors woven around a
fibrous insulating core, and it's not very solderable. So it might as
well be tinsel.

So, what's the absolutely correct name for this construction?

In North America, cables are described by their application class, UL
Style number and construction.

As the wire that interests the OP is likely of Asian design and
origin, it may be described somewhat differently.

Stranding count, gauge, serving style, core and jacket material would
likely be required to fully describe flexible cable for consumer audio
applications.

It's an interesting thought, though; just what off-beat permutations
and combinations of events would be required for a Japanese
manufacturer to label something with a North-American colloquialism
associated with decorating material or dressmaking. Metalic threads
were not unknown in centuries past, so they'd likely have their own
terms for round or flattened varieties.

Last 'tinsel' wire I saw was in mono earplug leads, a la 1965. Biggest
problem was normal conductor surface contamination from outgassing
insulation, with age, and the further contaminating effects of burning
core material at soldering temperatures.

RL

Just watch out with that solder - through enamel. There is a warning in the
Farnell catalogue about toxic fumes (Toluene di-isocyanate or something
like that). It certainly hurts the eyes and so I'd use some kind of fume
extraction or at least open the window.


Will wrote:

On Sat 14 May 2005 16:57:13, legg wrote:


The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare
copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But
the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are
enamelled.

How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to
solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'?

Enamel is likely present on both conductors - the 'bare' group's
enamel is just not dyed with distinctive color pigments.

Tin the leads using a soldering iron tip loaded with fluxed
solder, starting from the cut end, where heat transfer to the
copper is facilitated by direct contact. If there are a lot of
wires, a solder pot speeds things up - dip in flux, then dip in
the solder pot.

Do not overheat. Better to repeat the process, with fresh solder
and a clean tip, than to persist with a hot tip that has burned
out of flux.

Yup this worked a treat for me! I never realised I could solder
straight onto this stuff by letting the heat of the iron remove
the enamel.


The enamel used in commercial equipment is designed for
solderability. Larger bundles of litz, or wires with heavy
enamel, may require that this operation be repeated to contact
all internal wires in the bundle. In this case, abrading the tip
to increase bare copper surface area reduces time in the
soldering operation.

Use of an open flame will contaminate, weaken and oxidize the
conductors, making them harder to eventually solder.