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How solder to very fine enamelled woven wires in earphone lead?
On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:
How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Both wires are covered with different color enamel. You can likely apply solder directly to the wires and the heat will burn off the enamel while the flux does its job. Some enamels are designed that way. Regards, Boris Mohar Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca |
Will wrote:
I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- As another poster has suggested, the heat of a soldering tip may do the job - indeed some fine wire enamels are designed to convert to a soldering flux on the application of a hot iron. Dipping the end of the wire in a solder pot for a few seconds should od the job too. If you cannot apply heat, then nail varnish remover can work very well. It may wick up the strands though. Applying a drop of candle wax first and stripping and trimming back to the wax should work. If you don't have nail varnish remover, then I guess paint stripper may do the job..but nail varnish comes with a handy applicator brush. Another thing that can work is a gas blowtorch with a catalytic converter nozzle that turns it into a tiny hot air gun. Loads enough temperature to remove insulation (or heat-shrink tiny sleeves or in a confined space). -- Sue |
In article ,
Boris Mohar wrote: Both wires are covered with different color enamel. You can likely apply solder directly to the wires and the heat will burn off the enamel while the flux does its job. Some enamels are designed that way. They might be. However, the standard way is to burn them off with something like a cigarette lighter. -- *Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Palindr?me wrote: Will wrote: I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- As another poster has suggested, the heat of a soldering tip may do the job - indeed some fine wire enamels are designed to convert to a soldering flux on the application of a hot iron. Dipping the end of the wire in a solder pot for a few seconds should od the job too. If you cannot apply heat, then nail varnish remover can work very well. It may wick up the strands though. Applying a drop of candle wax first and stripping and trimming back to the wax should work. If you don't have nail varnish remover, then I guess paint stripper may do the job..but nail varnish comes with a handy applicator brush. Another thing that can work is a gas blowtorch with a catalytic converter nozzle that turns it into a tiny hot air gun. Loads enough temperature to remove insulation (or heat-shrink tiny sleeves or in a confined space). Hi... Another idea that's worked for me is to simply 'worry' the ends gently with a pair of long-nose. The idea is to slightly crush (over and over :) the strands, so that the enamel cracks and falls off, leaving the more flexible copper intact. Good luck and take care. Ken |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:
The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Enamel is likely present on both conductors - the 'bare' group's enamel is just not dyed with distinctive color pigments. Tin the leads using a soldering iron tip loaded with fluxed solder, starting from the cut end, where heat transfer to the copper is facilitated by direct contact. If there are a lot of wires, a solder pot speeds things up - dip in flux, then dip in the solder pot. Do not overheat. Better to repeat the process, with fresh solder and a clean tip, than to persist with a hot tip that has burned out of flux. The enamel used in commercial equipment is designed for solderability. Larger bundles of litz, or wires with heavy enamel, may require that this operation be repeated to contact all internal wires in the bundle. In this case, abrading the tip to increase bare copper surface area reduces time in the soldering operation. Use of an open flame will contaminate, weaken and oxidize the conductors, making them harder to eventually solder. RL |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:
I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- I've done this several times. The technique used is to put the tip of the soldering iron under the wire so that it just touches it. Then apply solder and it will melt on the iron tip and surround the wire. You will see a little dimple where the wire enters the solder blob. When the laquer burns away this dimple will disappear and the solder will flow a little way along the wire. Remember you will be burning off the laquer and the plastic fibers. After tinning all the wires then they can be soldered together. BTW, I think Sony uses clear, green, and red laquer. The wire with the clear laquer will appear to be bright copper but is actually coated. This wire is the common. ERS |
"legg" wrote in message ... The enamel used in commercial equipment is designed for solderability. Larger bundles of litz ... It's more likely to be tinsel wire. -- N |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:
I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel. John |
"Will" wrote in message ... Yup this worked a treat for me! I never realised I could solder straight onto this stuff by letting the heat of the iron remove the enamel. This is known as "self fluxing enamel". Doesn't work on the old style stuff though. -- N |
"Will" wrote in message ... I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will I'm at a los as to why you're posting this to a component newsgroup; it should only be in sci.electronics.repair. But anyway, each of the enameled wires is a separate conductor, and should be separate from one another. Like green might be left, and red right. And the other bare wires are the common or ground. ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:06:32 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote: I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel. Tinsel wire is characterized by it's flat spiral winding around the core. It is not enameled and each conductor will be insulated conventionally. It is solderable, but requires mechanical security to prevent vibration at the SJ. A crimped contact requires the same stress relief. The OPs wire is not tinsel wire. RL |
On Sun, 15 May 2005 03:49:53 GMT, legg wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:06:32 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote: I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel. Tinsel wire is characterized by it's flat spiral winding around the core. It is not enameled and each conductor will be insulated conventionally. It is solderable, but requires mechanical security to prevent vibration at the SJ. A crimped contact requires the same stress relief. The OPs wire is not tinsel wire. Oh, don't be crabby. It's a lot of fine conductors woven around a fibrous insulating core, and it's not very solderable. So it might as well be tinsel. So, what's the absolutely correct name for this construction? John |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote:
I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- It's easier and better to just replace the entire headphone cable. Get oneoff a pair of cheapo headphones.(I get them for a buck at my local dollar tree and just desolder the leads at the transducers.) As for removing the varnish insulation you canuse a standard exacto knife and gently scrape it away or a clean solder tip to burn it off. Resolder the leads to the Sony transducer elements using a 20-30 watt soldering pencil, any higher will just melt half the project.(You can also use a hemostat clamped on the downside of the wire to act as a heatsink to keep from melting any of the lead.) Helps to use a good brand of flux and solder.(I use a high silver content solder, not the 60/40 tin/lead stuff.) |
My experience with Sony headphones was as above G=left, Red=Right &
Copper=Common. Sometimes they're actually all wound together, you just need to tease the colors out. I've usually tinned them using a gun. Also check the cord down aways as there is probably damage further along. All the tinsel cord I've seen used crimp connections or mechanicaly attached plugs. That goes back to the '50s and my crystal radio set. My stepdaughter dances around her room with her headphones on. I've repaired the cord ~ 10 times. Richard |
"spudnuty" wrote in message ups.com... My experience with Sony headphones was as above G=left, Red=Right & Copper=Common. Sometimes they're actually all wound together, you just need to tease the colors out. I've usually tinned them using a gun. Also check the cord down aways as there is probably damage further along. All the tinsel cord I've seen used crimp connections or mechanicaly attached plugs. That goes back to the '50s and my crystal radio set. My stepdaughter dances around her room with her headphones on. I've repaired the cord ~ 10 times. Richard Same here in the Atari 2600 and Super Mario Bros years back in the '70s, when a neighbor bought one for his kids. I must've repaired the joystick at least a half dozen times. |
Back in the olden days when we wuz young we used to wind coils with litz wire
- which resembles the wire you describe - when soldering we didn't take the trouble to bare each individual strand, but rather used very fine wet and dry to gently clean the wire treating it as if it was one conductor. Worked pretty well. So, you could try this easy/lazy/can't be bothered way and see how it goes David |
On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:31:18 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Sun, 15 May 2005 03:49:53 GMT, legg wrote: On Sat, 14 May 2005 10:06:32 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Sat, 14 May 2005 13:38:12 +0100, Will wrote: I have some Sony in-ear headphones. The lead to one earpiece has been cut through completely and I want to rejoin the two wires (which I will call 'conductors' to avoid confusion). The two 'conductors' inside the lead are rather thin. And what is more, each of the two 'conductors' is made up of something like a dozen smaller copper wires which are woven around some very fine threads (perhaps the threads are very fine polyester yarn). The threads run along the lead as the core of the 'conductor'. The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Below is what I have tried. Can you advise? Will ---------------------------- Maybe my general technique is not delicate enough or maybe I am being too clumsy but this is what I have tried with no success: (1) Using fine glasspaper but it seems to tear the fine wires rather than strip their enamel away. Even if the wires don't break, there is still a portion of uncleaned enamel of the inner sides of the fine wires. (2) Using a match to burn off the enamel but this leaves a black deposit which I have to scrape away with glasspaper and I am back to the beginning. (3) Using a gas flame always seems too fierce as it burns through the wires. ----------------- END ----------------------------- This is "tinsel wire." It really doesn't solder well, and if you do manage to solder it, it will soon break at the joint. It's usually crimped. I don't know how to strip the enamel. Tinsel wire is characterized by it's flat spiral winding around the core. It is not enameled and each conductor will be insulated conventionally. It is solderable, but requires mechanical security to prevent vibration at the SJ. A crimped contact requires the same stress relief. The OPs wire is not tinsel wire. Oh, don't be crabby. It's a lot of fine conductors woven around a fibrous insulating core, and it's not very solderable. So it might as well be tinsel. So, what's the absolutely correct name for this construction? In North America, cables are described by their application class, UL Style number and construction. As the wire that interests the OP is likely of Asian design and origin, it may be described somewhat differently. Stranding count, gauge, serving style, core and jacket material would likely be required to fully describe flexible cable for consumer audio applications. It's an interesting thought, though; just what off-beat permutations and combinations of events would be required for a Japanese manufacturer to label something with a North-American colloquialism associated with decorating material or dressmaking. Metalic threads were not unknown in centuries past, so they'd likely have their own terms for round or flattened varieties. Last 'tinsel' wire I saw was in mono earplug leads, a la 1965. Biggest problem was normal conductor surface contamination from outgassing insulation, with age, and the further contaminating effects of burning core material at soldering temperatures. RL |
Just watch out with that solder - through enamel. There is a warning in the
Farnell catalogue about toxic fumes (Toluene di-isocyanate or something like that). It certainly hurts the eyes and so I'd use some kind of fume extraction or at least open the window. Will wrote: On Sat 14 May 2005 16:57:13, legg wrote: The wires of one of these two 'conductors' looks like bare copper and is unoxidised so I can probably solder to it. But the OTHER CONDUCTOR is the PROBLEM because its fine wires are enamelled. How can I remove this enamel coating in order to be able to solder to the fine copper wires of the 'conductor'? Enamel is likely present on both conductors - the 'bare' group's enamel is just not dyed with distinctive color pigments. Tin the leads using a soldering iron tip loaded with fluxed solder, starting from the cut end, where heat transfer to the copper is facilitated by direct contact. If there are a lot of wires, a solder pot speeds things up - dip in flux, then dip in the solder pot. Do not overheat. Better to repeat the process, with fresh solder and a clean tip, than to persist with a hot tip that has burned out of flux. Yup this worked a treat for me! I never realised I could solder straight onto this stuff by letting the heat of the iron remove the enamel. The enamel used in commercial equipment is designed for solderability. Larger bundles of litz, or wires with heavy enamel, may require that this operation be repeated to contact all internal wires in the bundle. In this case, abrading the tip to increase bare copper surface area reduces time in the soldering operation. Use of an open flame will contaminate, weaken and oxidize the conductors, making them harder to eventually solder. |
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