I built a binary clock:

Now released to run on your billion transistor computer!

Download for Windows he http://www.arcatapet.com/software/daveuobc.cfm

Have fun learning to read time on it.

Dave...

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".


The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used in 1969
had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:15:50 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:



"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".


The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used in 1969
had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...



Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs or
Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.

An RTL NOR gate had exactly ONE transistor :-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:



"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".


The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used in 1969
had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


The first IC was in 1960 and had 10 transistors.

Your ICs came AFTER that, so your topic header ain't real bright.

By 1969 most ICs had more than that on them. I am sure there are still
a few out there that do not, but damn few, and damn costly. A lot better
to put eight of your chips onto on chip and the user uses what they need.

How many folks are still doing discreet component based logic circuit
layouts? I mean, aside from the basics like a diode or pull up, etc.?
Even then, we do things in banks and use chips with multiple iterations
of something on them, like quad op amps, etc.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:15:50 -0500, flipper wrote:

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.


Fairchild's first chip was built by TI and went into missiles and was
ten transistors.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:15:50 -0500, flipper wrote:

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs or
Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.


The "first IC" is not segregated by the market it targeted, ya dope.

The TI chip was the Fairchild design. TI fabbed it.

flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:



"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".


The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used in
1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...



Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs or
Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.

I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti" packaged
circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I also seem to
recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message
...
The first IC was in 1960 and had 10 transistors.

Your ICs came AFTER that, so your topic header ain't real bright.

irrelevant snippage

Do try to work on your social skills.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:24:38 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".

74S30 = six transistors.

There are MANY other examples.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:34:36 -0500, flipper wrote:


I said first "commercial" you out of context partial quoting jackass.

Which has nothing to do with the title of the thread.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:41:41 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:57:47 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:15:50 -0500, flipper wrote:

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.


Fairchild's first chip was built by TI and went into missiles and was
ten transistors.

wrong again.

T.I. filed their patent first but Fairchild's was issued first.


Patent release dates are not where I put my historical timestamps.
Sorry. Fairchild had years of development involved and were the first.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:45:35 -0500, flipper wrote:


The original IC had only one transistor, three resistors and one
capacitor.


Wrong. That was NOT an IC. That was a hybrid ASSEMBLY. You need to
learn the difference.

It took literally decades before we could reliably put caps onto and
into chips, and we still prefer to place them externally, and we still do
not use them for memory. That should tell you something.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:05:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:37:19 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:34:36 -0500, flipper wrote:


I said first "commercial" you out of context partial quoting jackass.

Which has nothing to do with the title of the thread.

It has to do with what I wrote, jackass.

You can't debate a jackass... shun the *******.

I'm puzzled!
Is there some orgasmic result from feeding trolls?
If not, WHY do you keep doing it?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:05:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:37:19 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:34:36 -0500, flipper wrote:


I said first "commercial" you out of context partial quoting jackass.

Which has nothing to do with the title of the thread.

It has to do with what I wrote, jackass.

That, then makes you the jackass, and you are too blind to see it.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:23:32 -0500, flipper wrote:


Just how the hell do you think dynamic RAM works? It's a freaking huge
bank of capacitors, which is why the darn thing has to be continually
refreshed.

No, idiot. It is a large bank of actively latched transistor switches.

No caps.

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...



Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".
WRONG!
Fairchild UA702 had nine, the UA705 had five, i think their first -
the UA700 had three; certainly the infamous Jack Kilby patent used way
less than 10.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:18:53 -0700 Archimedes' Lever
wrote in Message id:
:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:23:32 -0500, flipper wrote:


Just how the hell do you think dynamic RAM works? It's a freaking huge
bank of capacitors, which is why the darn thing has to be continually
refreshed.

No, idiot. It is a large bank of actively latched transistor switches.

No caps.

AlwaysWrong again. Your lesson for today: Research the word "refresh" and
write a 500 word essay on why you are AlwaysWrong.

Report is due by 12:00AM PST tonight.

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:45:35 -0500, flipper wrote:

The original IC had only one transistor, three resistors and one
capacitor.


Wrong. That was NOT an IC. That was a hybrid ASSEMBLY. You need to
learn the difference.

It took literally decades before we could reliably put caps onto and
into chips, and we still prefer to place them externally, and we still do
not use them for memory. That should tell you something.
SORRY!
Capacitors are a PART of the memory in DRAM; the FETS are *designed*
to have sufficient gate capacitance to hold the (data) charge for a
rather long time.
In the 80's (i think) Intel had a PMOS 128-bit (count may be high)
"array" that took 3 voltages to run to spec; the capacitance was high
enough and the leakage low enough that stored data could last for DAYS
with no power.
And built-in capacitors as a part of the design were used in analog
and digital parts made at Fairchild back in those daze as well.

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:23:32 -0500, flipper wrote:

Just how the hell do you think dynamic RAM works? It's a freaking huge
bank of capacitors, which is why the darn thing has to be continually
refreshed.

No, idiot. It is a large bank of actively latched transistor switches.

No caps.
STUPID!
If it was LATCHED it would be STATIC!!!

flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:26:50 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:05:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:37:19 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:34:36 -0500, flipper wrote:


I said first "commercial" you out of context partial quoting jackass.

Which has nothing to do with the title of the thread.

It has to do with what I wrote, jackass.

You can't debate a jackass... shun the *******.

I'm puzzled!
Is there some orgasmic result from feeding trolls?
If not, WHY do you keep doing it?

Occasionally I get curious to see just how deep he'll dig the hole.


You better hurry up. His ISP is supposed to drop their NNTP service
on Sunday.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:50:44 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:26:50 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:05:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:37:19 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:34:36 -0500, flipper wrote:


I said first "commercial" you out of context partial quoting jackass.

Which has nothing to do with the title of the thread.

It has to do with what I wrote, jackass.

You can't debate a jackass... shun the *******.

I'm puzzled!
Is there some orgasmic result from feeding trolls?
If not, WHY do you keep doing it?

Occasionally I get curious to see just how deep he'll dig the hole.


You better hurry up. His ISP is supposed to drop their NNTP service
on Sunday.

Yes, and only a total ****ing useless retard like you would think I
will not have Usenet access at that point.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:53:20 -0500 flipper wrote in
Message id: :

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:18:53 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:23:32 -0500, flipper wrote:


Just how the hell do you think dynamic RAM works? It's a freaking huge
bank of capacitors, which is why the darn thing has to be continually
refreshed.

No, idiot. It is a large bank of actively latched transistor switches.

A "latch" is, by definition, static and needs no refresh, as in
"Static RAM" (SRAM).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_..._access_memory

"...a type of semiconductor memory where the word static indicates
that, unlike dynamic RAM (DRAM), it does not need to be periodically
refreshed, as SRAM uses bistable latching circuitry to store each
bit."

No caps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic...AM_.28SDRAM.29

"Dynamic random access memory (DRAM) is a type of random access memory
that stores each bit of data in a separate capacitor within an
integrated circuit. Since real capacitors leak charge, the information
eventually fades unless the capacitor charge is refreshed
periodically. Because of this refresh requirement, it is a dynamic
memory as opposed to SRAM and other static memory."

Looks like AlwaysWrong has gone AWOL.

*snicker*

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:05:15 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:37:19 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:34:36 -0500, flipper wrote:

I said first "commercial" you out of context partial quoting jackass.

Which has nothing to do with the title of the thread.
It has to do with what I wrote, jackass.

You can't debate a jackass... shun the *******.

I'm puzzled!
Is there some orgasmic result from feeding trolls?
If not, WHY do you keep doing it?

...Jim Thompson

For that matter, why insult jackasses? They serve a purpose at least.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:


"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used in
1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs or
Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.

I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti" packaged
circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I also seem to
recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)


Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open house
where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?) package in the
late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:17:41 +0100, Baron
wrote:

flipper Inscribed thus:

Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs or
Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti" packaged
circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I also seem to
recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

All this talk about the first ICs reminded me of the first "IC
Computers:" the Apollo computer systems.

Those working on a DIY lunar mission can download a simulator of the
guidance computer from this site.

http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ForDummies.html

Notice the computer specs: 85,000 CPU instructions per second. Yee-ha,
we're cooking with gas now!

The story of how the 'verb-noun' interface came about is both funny
and scary. Apparently no one had spec 'd the man machine interface so
when a demo was needed something was thrown together and it stuck.

A power point presentation showing the guts of it.

http://klabs.org/mapld04/presentatio...007_hall_s.ppt

The ICs were dual nor gates.


The space race was an exciting time. It's hard to imagine how they
did it with the technology at hand. Imagine building a Mercury, Gemini
or Apollo capsule with modern electronics. I wonder how much weight and
power could be saved.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:


"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that
had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used
in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a
mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs
or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.

I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti" packaged
circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I also seem to
recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)


Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking about
in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more numerous.
I was hunting for something the other day and came across a packet with
a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded ends complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old they
are.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that
had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used
in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a
mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs
or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti" packaged
circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I also seem to
recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking about
in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more numerous.
I was hunting for something the other day and came across a packet with
a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded ends complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old they
are.

Those go back to hybrid systems with tubes, if memory serves. Not
that I am old enough to remember such things.

Not too long ago I found a schematic for a nixie tube clock using an
IC switching transistors to drive the tubes. Interesting combination.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that
had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used
in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably
wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with
a mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether
theirs or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was
entirely consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that
not 'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti"
packaged circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I
also seem to recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what
type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking
about in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more
numerous. I was hunting for something the other day and came across a
packet with a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded ends
complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old
they are.

Those go back to hybrid systems with tubes, if memory serves. Not
that I am old enough to remember such things.

Not too long ago I found a schematic for a nixie tube clock using
an IC switching transistors to drive the tubes. Interesting
combination.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

One of these days I'm going to have to take some photos of all the
interesting bits of junk that I have kicking about. SWMBO wants me to
dump it all !
One day, one day :-)
You can bet my kids will when I pass on.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that
had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used
in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably
wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with
a mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether
theirs or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was
entirely consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that
not 'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti"
packaged circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I
also seem to recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what
type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking
about in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more
numerous. I was hunting for something the other day and came across a
packet with a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded ends
complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old
they are.

Those go back to hybrid systems with tubes, if memory serves. Not
that I am old enough to remember such things.

Not too long ago I found a schematic for a nixie tube clock using
an IC switching transistors to drive the tubes. Interesting
combination.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

One of these days I'm going to have to take some photos of all the
interesting bits of junk that I have kicking about. SWMBO wants me to
dump it all !
One day, one day :-)
You can bet my kids will when I pass on.


My ex used to refer to my stash as "your father's junk heap" when
talking to my children. Once in awhile I get rid of things like the 8"
disk drives I chucked a few years ago. Do you know anyone who needs some
core memory?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you
stupid twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none
"that had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I
used in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably
wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim
with a mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether
theirs or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production
was entirely consumed by NASA and the military so many consider
that not 'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti"
packaged circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I
also seem to recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what
type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking
about in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more
numerous. I was hunting for something the other day and came across
a packet with a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded
ends complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old
they are.

Those go back to hybrid systems with tubes, if memory serves.
Not
that I am old enough to remember such things.

Not too long ago I found a schematic for a nixie tube clock
using an IC switching transistors to drive the tubes.
Interesting combination.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

One of these days I'm going to have to take some photos of all the
interesting bits of junk that I have kicking about. SWMBO wants me to
dump it all !
One day, one day :-)
You can bet my kids will when I pass on.


My ex used to refer to my stash as "your father's junk heap" when
talking to my children. Once in awhile I get rid of things like the 8"
disk drives I chucked a few years ago. Do you know anyone who needs
some core memory?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Its many years since I saw any of that kind of memory. I've seen it on
display in a museum quite recently. It would be a shame to simply junk
it, trouble is few appreciate the technological advancements made to
get to where we are today. The only other application I can bring to
mind that used core storage is the "Seeburg Jukebox" ! I used to have
spare mechanism. Not the whole deck just the core memory assembly in
its steel box with the contact strip running along its length. It got
damp and went rusty so it got disposed of. The spare audio amplifier
was given to a young chap who used it as a guitar amp. I don't know
what became of him.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 14:28:57 -0500, Dan wrote:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that
had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used
in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably
wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with
a mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether
theirs or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was
entirely consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that
not 'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti"
packaged circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I
also seem to recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what
type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking
about in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more
numerous. I was hunting for something the other day and came across a
packet with a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded ends
complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old
they are.

Those go back to hybrid systems with tubes, if memory serves. Not
that I am old enough to remember such things.

Not too long ago I found a schematic for a nixie tube clock using
an IC switching transistors to drive the tubes. Interesting
combination.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

One of these days I'm going to have to take some photos of all the
interesting bits of junk that I have kicking about. SWMBO wants me to
dump it all !
One day, one day :-)
You can bet my kids will when I pass on.


My ex used to refer to my stash as "your father's junk heap" when
talking to my children. Once in awhile I get rid of things like the 8"
disk drives I chucked a few years ago.

---
Sounds like you got rid of something else you didn't need, as well.

flipper wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 14:28:57 -0500, Dan wrote:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
Dan Inscribed thus:

Baron wrote:
flipper Inscribed thus:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:41:50 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

"Archimedes' Lever" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:48:29 -0600, "Dave Ulmer"
wrote:

Dave...


Idiot! "IC"s NEVER "had less than ten transistors", you stupid
twit.

The very first IC HAD ten transistors, so there were none "that
had
less".

The Diode Transistor Logic (DTL) single flip flop ICs that I used
in 1969 had less than 10 transistors!

Dave...


Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably
wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the
Fairchild-Micrologic type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with
a mind boggling 4 transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether
theirs or Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was
entirely consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that
not 'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti"
packaged circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I
also seem to recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what
type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)

Remember ICs in round metal cans? I also remember an MIT open
house where they had a flip flop in an IC in a dipped (epoxy?)
package in the late 1960s. They used it in a decade counter.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Hi Dan.
I do recall those ! In fact I may still have one or two kicking
about in one of the many boxes of junk that seem to grow ever more
numerous. I was hunting for something the other day and came across a
packet with a couple of point contact diodes with the threaded ends
complete with
the nuts for attaching the wires to them. Goodness knows how old
they are.

Those go back to hybrid systems with tubes, if memory serves. Not
that I am old enough to remember such things.

Not too long ago I found a schematic for a nixie tube clock using
an IC switching transistors to drive the tubes. Interesting
combination.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
One of these days I'm going to have to take some photos of all the
interesting bits of junk that I have kicking about. SWMBO wants me to
dump it all !
One day, one day :-)
You can bet my kids will when I pass on.

My ex used to refer to my stash as "your father's junk heap" when
talking to my children. Once in awhile I get rid of things like the 8"
disk drives I chucked a few years ago. Do you know anyone who needs some
core memory?

Depends. Does it fit in a Data General Nova 2/10? I have one 'maxed'
out with the full 64k byte core memory but it's always nice to have a
spare

It was operational last time I turned it on some 20 years ago but my
MicroPDP-11 saw more practical use.


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

To be honest I have no idea what it is out of. I'd have to look at it
again, but I think it has 8 planes of 64 cores. If you are interested
I'll take a picture and send it to you. I also have a single plane from
some other device. I can't imagine having to thread 4 wires through each
core. If memory serves they were X, Y, sense and write.

I used to have two drum memories from a calculator the size of a GI
desk. If I remember right they were 8" or so in diameter by almost 3
feet long. The console had a gazillion columns of buttons. I'm not sure
what I was going to do with the drums, but I was in high school and they
were fun to play with.

Some things not worth keeping were the dynamic RAM chips from a Z-80A
computer I built on an S-100 bus in 1979 or so. I do keep a few older
(pre L or LS) ICs to play with on occasion.

It drove my wife nuts that I couldn't throw away a serviceable item
just because I didn't have an immediate use for it. I never was able to
convince her a past time is something one wants to do and a hobby is
something one HAS to do. You know, like breathing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

flipper wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:17:15 -0500, Dan wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:17:41 +0100, Baron
wrote:

flipper Inscribed thus:

Don't worry. He does that all the time and is quite reliably wrong.

One of, if not, the first commercial ICs was the Fairchild-Micrologic
type "F" (flip-flop) stuffed to the brim with a mind boggling 4
transistors.

http://www.computerhistory.org/colle...sion/102696650

They also had the type "G" nor gate.

T.I. made similar 'chips', and there is debate as to whether theirs or
Micrologic's was 'first', but their early production was entirely
consumed by NASA and the military so many consider that not
'commercially available'.
I vaguely remember that I was playing about with "Ferranti" packaged
circuits, circa late 60's that had four transistors. I also seem to
recall that the colour of the plastic indicated what type of circuit
was in the package. Oh those fun days... :-)
All this talk about the first ICs reminded me of the first "IC
Computers:" the Apollo computer systems.

Those working on a DIY lunar mission can download a simulator of the
guidance computer from this site.

http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ForDummies.html

Notice the computer specs: 85,000 CPU instructions per second. Yee-ha,
we're cooking with gas now!

The story of how the 'verb-noun' interface came about is both funny
and scary. Apparently no one had spec 'd the man machine interface so
when a demo was needed something was thrown together and it stuck.

A power point presentation showing the guts of it.

http://klabs.org/mapld04/presentatio...007_hall_s.ppt

The ICs were dual nor gates.


The space race was an exciting time. It's hard to imagine how they
did it with the technology at hand.

Hehe. Yes, I know. I remember marveling at the 'high tech', especially
since the Russian capsule panel looked like no more than an on-off and
station select table radio.

Then, a number of years back, NASA put together a collection of what
were originally 'promo' films. No changes, just the originals spliced
together to show the time line. But they were 'shocking' from a modern
perspective, what with a Redstone so small you could almost wrap your
arms around it and the Mercury capsule looking like less than a
corrugated sheet metal coffin because you couldn't even 'rest in
peace' laid out but were curled up in a fetal position with both your
feet and back resting against thin sheet metal between you and
nothing.

I had visions of someone lighting the thing off with a BIC.

But I was a 'Star Trek' guy. Give me warp drive

Imagine building a Mercury, Gemini
or Apollo capsule with modern electronics. I wonder how much weight and
power could be saved.

Of course, the ground based behemoths did the big number crunching
but, if I remember correctly, the AGC was 70lbs and consumed 70 watts.

Do the numbers in reverse and imagine what a 1930s Buck Rogers' ship
must have weighed with tubes! That really was fantasy

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I liked "Star Trek" also, but even then I knew they were behind the
technology curve. Scotty referred to and old space ship as "using big
bulky things called transistors" even though ICs were out and about. In
"Amok Time" the clock used flip leaves. In another episode someone
referred to ion drive as "advanced" despite having been around in the 1960s.

With the space race and such I really believed we'd be on our way to
Jupiter by 2001.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Dan" wrote in message ...
In "Amok Time" the clock used flip leaves.

Perhaps they were just being nostalgic? Probably not, but interestingly a lot
of cell phones -- namely, those made by HTC -- use a flip-leaf clock display
as their default. I suspect many kids with such phones haven't even seen the
real, mechanical implementations...

I never cared particularly for flip-leaf displays, but I do like nixie tube
clocks.

With the space race and such I really believed we'd be on our way to
Jupiter by 2001.

If we hadn't decisively *won* the space race -- and were still running it
today -- you might be right. :-)

---Joel

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
...
In "Amok Time" the clock used flip leaves.

Perhaps they were just being nostalgic? Probably not, but interestingly
a lot of cell phones -- namely, those made by HTC -- use a flip-leaf
clock display as their default. I suspect many kids with such phones
haven't even seen the real, mechanical implementations...

I never cared particularly for flip-leaf displays, but I do like nixie
tube clocks.

With the space race and such I really believed we'd be on our way to
Jupiter by 2001.

If we hadn't decisively *won* the space race -- and were still running
it today -- you might be right. :-)

---Joel


I used nixie panel meters in 1973 ish. It's kind of fascinating to
watch the digits change.

Time marches on. 3 years ago I had to explain to a 20 year old how to
operate a record player.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

flipper wrote:
snip

I think I've still got a bag of 1103s around here somewhere. I was, at
the time, hoping to build my own computer but it was just too much
money, not to mention slow going. I did get the ALU wired up but then
I ran across the 'junked' Nova 2-10, which I repaired, and with 2
1.25Meg platters that was way more than I could do on my own in spare
time. It took a dedicated breaker to power the dern thing, though, and
the room got rather toasty in short order even with the air running
full blast. My house just wasn't built to be a 'computing center'

In the 1970s Langley AFB closed their C-130 units and moved the
EC-135 avionics branch and ops into the old C-130 sim building. At least
they rebuilt it to suit. In the 1980s I was at Eglin AFB when they
decided to move us into the now vacant C-130 flight sim building. The
least they could have done is turn off the air conditioning until they
revamped the building. In January it was in the 20s outside and we still
had the big back doors open to keep from freezing. I never did ask how
much power them there C-130 sims used, but I can assume it was a lot
considering that blasted AC. Believe it or not the only ones allowed to
turn AC or heat on or off was base civil engineering. Of course there
was a base reg that dictated when and what could be switched and no one
bothered to make a supplement for us. End of whine mode.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

flipper wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 18:01:07 -0500, Dan wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
...
In "Amok Time" the clock used flip leaves.
Perhaps they were just being nostalgic? Probably not, but interestingly
a lot of cell phones -- namely, those made by HTC -- use a flip-leaf
clock display as their default. I suspect many kids with such phones
haven't even seen the real, mechanical implementations...

I never cared particularly for flip-leaf displays, but I do like nixie
tube clocks.

With the space race and such I really believed we'd be on our way to
Jupiter by 2001.
If we hadn't decisively *won* the space race -- and were still running
it today -- you might be right. :-)

---Joel

I used nixie panel meters in 1973 ish. It's kind of fascinating to
watch the digits change.

Time marches on. 3 years ago I had to explain to a 20 year old how to
operate a record player.

A what player? hehe


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

A Victrola, you young whippersnapper.

We had to walk barefoot to school in the snow, up hill, both ways,
and we LIKED it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan wrote:

flipper wrote:
snip

I think I've still got a bag of 1103s around here somewhere. I was, at
the time, hoping to build my own computer but it was just too much
money, not to mention slow going. I did get the ALU wired up but then
I ran across the 'junked' Nova 2-10, which I repaired, and with 2
1.25Meg platters that was way more than I could do on my own in spare
time. It took a dedicated breaker to power the dern thing, though, and
the room got rather toasty in short order even with the air running
full blast. My house just wasn't built to be a 'computing center'

In the 1970s Langley AFB closed their C-130 units and moved the
EC-135 avionics branch and ops into the old C-130 sim building. At least
they rebuilt it to suit. In the 1980s I was at Eglin AFB when they
decided to move us into the now vacant C-130 flight sim building. The
least they could have done is turn off the air conditioning until they
revamped the building. In January it was in the 20s outside and we still
had the big back doors open to keep from freezing. I never did ask how
much power them there C-130 sims used, but I can assume it was a lot
considering that blasted AC. Believe it or not the only ones allowed to
turn AC or heat on or off was base civil engineering. Of course there
was a base reg that dictated when and what could be switched and no one
bothered to make a supplement for us. End of whine mode.


20 degrees? How about -20 if you opened those doors? The AFRTS TV
station I engineered at in Alaska had no A/C. The studio was so hot
with the lights on that it was miserable. The solution was to prop open
the rear door behind the news desk, to let the sub zero air in, to cool
the set.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Dan wrote:
flipper wrote:
snip
I think I've still got a bag of 1103s around here somewhere. I was, at
the time, hoping to build my own computer but it was just too much
money, not to mention slow going. I did get the ALU wired up but then
I ran across the 'junked' Nova 2-10, which I repaired, and with 2
1.25Meg platters that was way more than I could do on my own in spare
time. It took a dedicated breaker to power the dern thing, though, and
the room got rather toasty in short order even with the air running
full blast. My house just wasn't built to be a 'computing center'
In the 1970s Langley AFB closed their C-130 units and moved the
EC-135 avionics branch and ops into the old C-130 sim building. At least
they rebuilt it to suit. In the 1980s I was at Eglin AFB when they
decided to move us into the now vacant C-130 flight sim building. The
least they could have done is turn off the air conditioning until they
revamped the building. In January it was in the 20s outside and we still
had the big back doors open to keep from freezing. I never did ask how
much power them there C-130 sims used, but I can assume it was a lot
considering that blasted AC. Believe it or not the only ones allowed to
turn AC or heat on or off was base civil engineering. Of course there
was a base reg that dictated when and what could be switched and no one
bothered to make a supplement for us. End of whine mode.


20 degrees? How about -20 if you opened those doors? The AFRTS TV
station I engineered at in Alaska had no A/C. The studio was so hot
with the lights on that it was miserable. The solution was to prop open
the rear door behind the news desk, to let the sub zero air in, to cool
the set.


No thanks, I RONned at Eilson (sp?) a couple of times in winter. That
was enough for me. Eglin, however, is in Florida.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired