http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE:IT&ih=012

wa2rqy wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE:IT&ih=012

$7 is a lot of shipping for a pound of stuff.

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

$7 is a lot of shipping for a pound of stuff.

1 pound of stuff packaged will cost $6.05 to ship to most of the US from
Florida.

Even using a free Priority Mail box, other costs can easily total a buck.

Jeff

Jeff Volp wrote:
"John Popelish" wrote:

$7 is a lot of shipping for a pound of stuff.

1 pound of stuff packaged will cost $6.05 to ship to most of the US from
Florida.

Even using a free Priority Mail box, other costs can easily total a buck.

A free Priority falt rate envelope that will hold a lot more than a
pound of many not very fragile things, including transistors, costs
$4.05 to ship anywhere in the U.S.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Jeff Volp wrote:
"John Popelish" wrote:

$7 is a lot of shipping for a pound of stuff.

1 pound of stuff packaged will cost $6.05 to ship to most of the US from
Florida.

Even using a free Priority Mail box, other costs can easily total a
buck.

A free Priority falt rate envelope that will hold a lot more than a
pound of many not very fragile things, including transistors, costs
$4.05 to ship anywhere in the U.S.

We ship a lot of stuff, and use PM flat-rate where appropriate. The $8.10
boxes can be a bargain for heavy items. To prevent damage in shipping, I
would use a 1096S box for something like this. Some people try to save
money and use flat-rate envelopes for things they were not designed for. It
usually works, but most experienced eBay sellers won't risk the negative
feedback when something arrives damaged.

Many people don't realize the extra costs involved in selling on eBay. You
might be surprised how many rolls of packing tape we go through. Bubble
wrap was $35 for the last roll. Packing peanuts are about $10 bucks a bag.
When not shipping PM, padded mailers are 35 cents, small boxes about 50
cents. Even the cost of printing labels and packing lists adds up. And if
we miss the pickup and have to make that run to the Post Office...

Jeff

Jeff Volp wrote:
We ship a lot of stuff, and use PM flat-rate where appropriate. The $8.10
boxes can be a bargain for heavy items. To prevent damage in shipping, I
would use a 1096S box for something like this. Some people try to save
money and use flat-rate envelopes for things they were not designed for. It
usually works, but most experienced eBay sellers won't risk the negative
feedback when something arrives damaged.

Many people don't realize the extra costs involved in selling on eBay. You
might be surprised how many rolls of packing tape we go through. Bubble
wrap was $35 for the last roll. Packing peanuts are about $10 bucks a bag.
When not shipping PM, padded mailers are 35 cents, small boxes about 50
cents. Even the cost of printing labels and packing lists adds up. And if
we miss the pickup and have to make that run to the Post Office...

And wait until you see what happens when that jiffy pack envelope you sent
parcel post tracking (tracking is required by eBay/paypal) gets crushed down to
under 3/4 inch, and you find it returned to you for insufficient postage.

-Chuck

"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...

1 pound of stuff packaged will cost $6.05 to ship to most of the US from
Florida.

Even using a free Priority Mail box, other costs can easily total a buck.

No question, but someone selling a stylus for a penny with $19.99 S&H is not
getting my money.

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...


1 pound of stuff packaged will cost $6.05 to ship to most of the US from
Florida.

Even using a free Priority Mail box, other costs can easily total a buck.


No question, but someone selling a stylus for a penny with $19.99 S&H is not
getting my money.

Yes. I'll do without before paying someone to cheat Ebay out of their
cut, and insult me with a ridiculous shipping charge. (I have seen a
box of stuff for sale for a $1, with $1999 shipping.)

I have told many sellers that efficient shipping puts me in the mood
to bid high. It may be more emotional than rational, but it is also a
fact.

My favorite shipping story is a load of large ferrite toroids, shipped
in a $4.05 flat rate envelope. The shipper said there was not room
for sufficient padding to prevent breakage in that container. I told
him that the only threat to the cores was one banging into another.
If taped together into into a solid cylinder, they might break
something else but they would be no threat to each other. I accepted
responsibility for any breakage if he agreed to ship this way.

I have since received 3 sets of these cores this way, without a chip,
though the envelopes look pretty ratty by the time they arrive with
their 3.5" diameter by 8 " long 5 pound cylindrical charges. I have
saved enough shipping on these 3 sets to pay for a fourth. :-)

I am looking for a 68 pound lead brick to ship to somewhere in the
$8.10 flat rate (up to 70 pounds) box. It might even be fun to shape
a 1 inch thick slab of lead into an 8 by 10 inch rectangle, to ship in
the flat rate envelope.

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

No question, but someone selling a stylus for a penny with $19.99 S&H is
not getting my money.

Yes. I'll do without before paying someone to cheat Ebay out of their
cut, and insult me with a ridiculous shipping charge. (I have seen a box
of stuff for sale for a $1, with $1999 shipping.)

Doing that cuts out all sorts of protections. Even insured, the Post Office
won't refund postage for lost items and eBay/PayPal don't insure S&H, only
the goods themselves.

And some idiots insist on you buying $1.30 insurance on a $1 item. That's
the dumbest bet on the planet.

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"John Popelish" wrote:

Yes. I'll do without before paying someone to cheat Ebay out of their
cut, and insult me with a ridiculous shipping charge. (I have seen a box
of stuff for sale for a $1, with $1999 shipping.)

Doing that cuts out all sorts of protections. Even insured, the Post Office
won't refund postage for lost items and eBay/PayPal don't insure S&H, only
the goods themselves.

And some idiots insist on you buying $1.30 insurance on a $1 item. That's
the dumbest bet on the planet.

Many also don't seem to realize that it is their stuff till it reaches
my hands. They demand insurance or deny any responsibility for it
getting to me. Like I am required to give them a positive comment
when it doesn't show up, unless I have asked them to insure the item.
The insurance protects them, more than me. Same with documented
delivery. If it doesn't get to me, I am going to get my money back
from the credit card company, regardless of how they whine about no
insurance.

I have spent thousands of dollars to buy from eBay and have gotten
only two negative comments. Both in retaliation after I gave a
negative for poor shipping. One was incensed that I gave him a
negative before asking him to replace material damaged because of
complete absence of packing. He had no concept of getting a
compliment for doing it right the first time, but thought it fair that
I give him as many attempts as it took to finally get a fragile item
to me in one piece, and then give him a positive comment.

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

I have spent thousands of dollars to buy from eBay and have gotten
only two negative comments. Both in retaliation after I gave a
negative for poor shipping.

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to
you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item. And sometimes
even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.

Jeff

John Popelish wrote:

I have seen a box of stuff for sale for a $1, with $1999 shipping.

So don't buy it !

I really don't object to a reasonable S&H charge ( and that may seem higher than
you might expect ) if it means the stuff arrives in good condition and speedily,
which it usually does.

Graham

"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...
"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

I have spent thousands of dollars to buy from eBay and have gotten
only two negative comments. Both in retaliation after I gave a
negative for poor shipping.

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to
you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item. And sometimes
even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.

Jeff



Shipping is "not" rocket science, though some still can't seem to master it.
Not "all" shipping is created equal. When I sell, I check "all" options
available to me for shipping. I let the buyer know what their options are as
well as prices and ask for any preference. The customer can choose to pay
for the carrier of their choice (among those offered). I find the Post
Office "usually" but not always cheapest. As to packing, it does benefit the
seller in reputation and aggravation - to package the items properly. In the
end, so long as the buyer knows what to expect and "gets it", all should be
happy.

Though it sounds silly to insure a $1 item - here is a "possible"
answer....... If it arrives broken or it is lost - then a refund has to be
made by "someone"! The seller "may" be counting their time and packing
materials in the cost (which can add up) and wish not to lose out in the
event of any problems.

Just my 2 cents

Spamfree wrote:
"Jeff Volp" wrote:
"John Popelish" wrote:

I have spent thousands of dollars to buy from eBay and have gotten
only two negative comments. Both in retaliation after I gave a
negative for poor shipping.

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to
you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item. And sometimes
even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.


Shipping is "not" rocket science, though some still can't seem to master it.
Not "all" shipping is created equal. When I sell, I check "all" options
available to me for shipping. I let the buyer know what their options are as
well as prices and ask for any preference. The customer can choose to pay
for the carrier of their choice (among those offered). I find the Post
Office "usually" but not always cheapest. As to packing, it does benefit the
seller in reputation and aggravation - to package the items properly. In the
end, so long as the buyer knows what to expect and "gets it", all should be
happy.

Though it sounds silly to insure a $1 item - here is a "possible"
answer....... If it arrives broken or it is lost - then a refund has to be
made by "someone"! The seller "may" be counting their time and packing
materials in the cost (which can add up) and wish not to lose out in the
event of any problems.

One method is not appropriate for all items. The pound of transistors
doesn't look very fragile to me. On the other hand, I have gotten
ferrite cores shipped in a very oversize box, with the cores laying on
the bottom and the large extra space filled with loose wadded
newspaper. Would have worked great, if someone had hammered on the
top of the box. But normal handling (the box was undamaged) had
tossed the cores against each other, like china dishes, and all I got
was a box of coarse black sand. Banding them together and shipping
them in an envelope, with no padding, would have been much better.

The item I gave a negative comment on, were solenoidal inductors,
bobbin wound, with hair-fine wire, and having sharp, stamped, PCB
pins. They were dumped into a manila envelope with no other packing,
and not one arrived without tangles of cut wire hanging off them. The
seller paid about $2 for first class shipping (no insurance), but I
had paid him $8 for the shipping, to include insurance. Then I was
lectured by him about how you don't damage someone's reputation with a
negative comment without giving them every chance to make things
right. He said he didn't insure them, because he had a lot of them,
and would send more if these arrived damaged. Of course, he didn't
tell me any of this before the damaged ones arrived.

I think the comments are there to warn other buyers about brainless,
negligent or dishonest sellers and to reward sellers who do it right
the first time.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:04:49 -0400, John Popelish
wrote:

[snip]
On the other hand, I have gotten
ferrite cores shipped in a very oversize box, with the cores laying on
the bottom and the large extra space filled with loose wadded
newspaper. Would have worked great, if someone had hammered on the
top of the box. But normal handling (the box was undamaged) had
tossed the cores against each other, like china dishes, and all I got
was a box of coarse black sand. Banding them together and shipping
them in an envelope, with no padding, would have been much better.

[snip]

Sheeeesh! Last time I ordered ferrite cores, they were shipped in a
pressed foam container... each core had its own little depressed area,
so they were immobile... at least enough that they couldn't bang into
each other.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:53:42 -0400, John Popelish
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:04:49 -0400, John Popelish
wrote:

[snip]

On the other hand, I have gotten
ferrite cores shipped in a very oversize box, with the cores laying on
the bottom and the large extra space filled with loose wadded
newspaper. Would have worked great, if someone had hammered on the
top of the box. But normal handling (the box was undamaged) had
tossed the cores against each other, like china dishes, and all I got
was a box of coarse black sand. Banding them together and shipping
them in an envelope, with no padding, would have been much better.


[snip]

Sheeeesh! Last time I ordered ferrite cores, they were shipped in a
pressed foam container... each core had its own little depressed area,
so they were immobile... at least enough that they couldn't bang into
each other.

Those sound like new cores. I am talking about stuff from someone's
garage. This is eBay, after all.

I guess I'm too persnickety... I don't shop eBay ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:04:49 -0400, John Popelish
wrote:

[snip]

On the other hand, I have gotten
ferrite cores shipped in a very oversize box, with the cores laying on
the bottom and the large extra space filled with loose wadded
newspaper. Would have worked great, if someone had hammered on the
top of the box. But normal handling (the box was undamaged) had
tossed the cores against each other, like china dishes, and all I got
was a box of coarse black sand. Banding them together and shipping
them in an envelope, with no padding, would have been much better.


[snip]

Sheeeesh! Last time I ordered ferrite cores, they were shipped in a
pressed foam container... each core had its own little depressed area,
so they were immobile... at least enough that they couldn't bang into
each other.

Those sound like new cores. I am talking about stuff from someone's
garage. This is eBay, after all.

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...
Spamfree wrote:
"Jeff Volp" wrote:
"John Popelish" wrote:

I have spent thousands of dollars to buy from eBay and have gotten
only two negative comments. Both in retaliation after I gave a
negative for poor shipping.

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to
you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item. And
sometimes
even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.


Shipping is "not" rocket science, though some still can't seem to master
it. Not "all" shipping is created equal. When I sell, I check "all"
options available to me for shipping. I let the buyer know what their
options are as well as prices and ask for any preference. The customer
can choose to pay for the carrier of their choice (among those offered).
I find the Post Office "usually" but not always cheapest. As to packing,
it does benefit the seller in reputation and aggravation - to package the
items properly. In the end, so long as the buyer knows what to expect and
"gets it", all should be happy.

Though it sounds silly to insure a $1 item - here is a "possible"
answer....... If it arrives broken or it is lost - then a refund has to
be made by "someone"! The seller "may" be counting their time and packing
materials in the cost (which can add up) and wish not to lose out in the
event of any problems.

One method is not appropriate for all items. The pound of transistors
doesn't look very fragile to me. On the other hand, I have gotten ferrite
cores shipped in a very oversize box, with the cores laying on the bottom
and the large extra space filled with loose wadded newspaper. Would have
worked great, if someone had hammered on the top of the box. But normal
handling (the box was undamaged) had tossed the cores against each other,
like china dishes, and all I got was a box of coarse black sand. Banding
them together and shipping them in an envelope, with no padding, would
have been much better.

The item I gave a negative comment on, were solenoidal inductors, bobbin
wound, with hair-fine wire, and having sharp, stamped, PCB pins. They
were dumped into a manila envelope with no other packing, and not one
arrived without tangles of cut wire hanging off them. The seller paid
about $2 for first class shipping (no insurance), but I had paid him $8
for the shipping, to include insurance. Then I was lectured by him about
how you don't damage someone's reputation with a negative comment without
giving them every chance to make things right. He said he didn't insure
them, because he had a lot of them, and would send more if these arrived
damaged. Of course, he didn't tell me any of this before the damaged ones
arrived.

I think the comments are there to warn other buyers about brainless,
negligent or dishonest sellers and to reward sellers who do it right the
first time.

Replying to this and the subsequent posts - I've seen so-called businesses
on e-bay pack worse than individuals. You just never know. I learned LONG
ago, to pack like the Samsonite commercials use to display - "rough"
handling. My "ex" mother in law sent a box of glassware to her daughter in
law one year. They were packed well and proven as such. When we went to the
UPS office, the business was transacted and they were told it was
"glass"........ The UPS lady picked the box up and gave it a heave ho to a
pile. My "ex" mother in law was ****ed. BUT, the package "did" survive the
journey. Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.
Some "may" not want to "buy" a lot of supplies if they don't sell
"regularly". No big deal, go to most any store and you can acquire boxes and
foam for free that their store displays came out of. I have an appliance
store near by, I can get most any size box I need. Then too, if you GET
packages - SAVE the bubble wrap/peanuts/etc. It doesn't have to cost a mint!
It doesn't have to be confusing. It doesn't have to cause problems for the
buyer or seller.

What kills me, is when "I" get an item which is shipped in a box 6 or more
times the size of the item....... Talk about overkill!

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:11:42 -0400, "Spamfree"
wrote:

[snip]

Replying to this and the subsequent posts - I've seen so-called businesses
on e-bay pack worse than individuals. You just never know. I learned LONG
ago, to pack like the Samsonite commercials use to display - "rough"
handling. My "ex" mother in law sent a box of glassware to her daughter in
law one year. They were packed well and proven as such. When we went to the
UPS office, the business was transacted and they were told it was
"glass"........ The UPS lady picked the box up and gave it a heave ho to a
pile. My "ex" mother in law was ****ed. BUT, the package "did" survive the
journey. Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.
Some "may" not want to "buy" a lot of supplies if they don't sell
"regularly". No big deal, go to most any store and you can acquire boxes and
foam for free that their store displays came out of. I have an appliance
store near by, I can get most any size box I need. Then too, if you GET
packages - SAVE the bubble wrap/peanuts/etc. It doesn't have to cost a mint!
It doesn't have to be confusing. It doesn't have to cause problems for the
buyer or seller.

What kills me, is when "I" get an item which is shipped in a box 6 or more
times the size of the item....... Talk about overkill!


I only use USPS (or UPS) when I can afford to have it lost... FedEx
has never failed me.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:16:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:11:42 -0400, "Spamfree"
wrote:

[snip]

Replying to this and the subsequent posts - I've seen so-called businesses
on e-bay pack worse than individuals. You just never know. I learned LONG
ago, to pack like the Samsonite commercials use to display - "rough"
handling. My "ex" mother in law sent a box of glassware to her daughter in
law one year. They were packed well and proven as such. When we went to the
UPS office, the business was transacted and they were told it was
"glass"........ The UPS lady picked the box up and gave it a heave ho to a
pile. My "ex" mother in law was ****ed. BUT, the package "did" survive the
journey. Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.
Some "may" not want to "buy" a lot of supplies if they don't sell
"regularly". No big deal, go to most any store and you can acquire boxes and
foam for free that their store displays came out of. I have an appliance
store near by, I can get most any size box I need. Then too, if you GET
packages - SAVE the bubble wrap/peanuts/etc. It doesn't have to cost a mint!
It doesn't have to be confusing. It doesn't have to cause problems for the
buyer or seller.

What kills me, is when "I" get an item which is shipped in a box 6 or more
times the size of the item....... Talk about overkill!


I only use USPS (or UPS) when I can afford to have it lost... FedEx
has never failed me.

I have had similar experience.

Jon

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:11:42 -0400, "Spamfree"
wrote:

snip
They were packed well and proven as such. When we went to the
UPS office, the business was transacted and they were told it was
"glass"........ The UPS lady picked the box up and gave it a heave ho to a
pile. My "ex" mother in law was ****ed. BUT, the package "did" survive the
journey.
snip

I once packed a box containing a monitor and keyboard to be shipped
ahead of me (I was flying) via UPS to a destination cross-country. I
had packed it using shaped foam that was at least 8 inches thick on
all sides and bottom and there was almost no possibility of inner
movement of either the monitor or keyboard. When I picked up the box
there was a nice hole with some 5" diameter dead-center on one of the
faces. On opening the box I found the keyboard had been demolished
but the monitor survived.

On closer look, it had the rough appearance of a sharp, conical
penetration. It was definitely NOT blunt damage. I then began to
imagine the idea that UPS keeps a steel cone mounted on their cement
factory floors, just for the occasional frustrated WHACK their
employees sometimes need to do to a box.

I really couldn't have anticipated this kind of penetration. It was
sharp, narrow, deep, and had enough of an impact to press through a
lot of foam and to then still break through the keyboard.

Jon

"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to
you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item. And sometimes
even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.

And if you've ever watched UPS or FedEx 'deliver' parcels by kicking them
off the back of the truck onto the road you'll really want your vintage ham
receiver well packed - preferably with 3" of bubble wrap and not just a
bunch of foam peanuts.

"Spamfree" wrote in message
...

Though it sounds silly to insure a $1 item - here is a "possible"
answer....... If it arrives broken or it is lost - then a refund has to be
made by "someone"! The seller "may" be counting their time and packing
materials in the cost (which can add up) and wish not to lose out in the
event of any problems.

If you use Priority Post and create a label on the website you get tracking
for free. Unless all of the packing etc is included in the item price it
isn't covered by insurance.

"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:02:29 GMT, Lostgallifreyan
wrote:

"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

Sheeeesh! Last time I ordered ferrite cores, they were shipped in a
pressed foam container... each core had its own little depressed area,
so they were immobile... at least enough that they couldn't bang into
each other.

Those sound like new cores. I am talking about stuff from someone's
garage. This is eBay, after all.

A spray can of insulating foam and a roll of double sided tape can make
stuff survive a trip around the world.

"Jonathan Kirwan" wrote in message
...

I once packed a box containing a monitor and keyboard to be shipped
ahead of me (I was flying) via UPS to a destination cross-country. I
had packed it using shaped foam that was at least 8 inches thick on
all sides and bottom and there was almost no possibility of inner
movement of either the monitor or keyboard. When I picked up the box
there was a nice hole with some 5" diameter dead-center on one of the
faces. On opening the box I found the keyboard had been demolished
but the monitor survived.

On closer look, it had the rough appearance of a sharp, conical
penetration. It was definitely NOT blunt damage. I then began to
imagine the idea that UPS keeps a steel cone mounted on their cement
factory floors, just for the occasional frustrated WHACK their
employees sometimes need to do to a box.

I really couldn't have anticipated this kind of penetration. It was
sharp, narrow, deep, and had enough of an impact to press through a
lot of foam and to then still break through the keyboard.

Fork lift tines?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:02:29 GMT, Lostgallifreyan
wrote:

"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.

When I was staff consultant at GenRad, they used plastic bags around
the object to be shipped, then blew them up with some kind of foam,
thus form-fitting support.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
...
"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for
some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I
don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.

While you "could" be right about the calculations, R&D - etc of "bigger"
places, I think the gist of this is for "small" businesses (mom and pop) AND
individual sellers - the e-bay and newsgroups buying crowds. THEY don't use
high tech or high priced packaging. If you "pack" it securely - as you would
want to "receive" it - chances are you'll do a good job. Simply "throwing"
something into a box - adding some newspaper or peanuts and not "securing"
the item or cushioinng it - is half assed. Yes, it does take "some" effort
to pack - but again - it isn't "impossible" to get the hang of!

Fed Ex doesn't pick up (packages) near me - the closest place I know of, is
their terminal - 40 miles away. So, I use UPS and USPS. I've had a decent
record so far sending and receiving.

"Homer J Simpson" wrote in
news:J9zTg.4931$N4.734@clgrps12:


"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the
item to you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item.
And sometimes even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.

And if you've ever watched UPS or FedEx 'deliver' parcels by kicking
them off the back of the truck onto the road you'll really want your
vintage ham receiver well packed - preferably with 3" of bubble wrap
and not just a bunch of foam peanuts.





Wouldn't be enough. You'd want to pack 'peanuts' into every internal
crevice too, to sustain that impact, and pack tubes separately, etc..

You'd do better taking a photo of the delivery and posting it on the net
with a clear picture of the guys face. Someone will pay you handsomely to
have that pic removed.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:13:17 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
wrote:

"Jonathan Kirwan" wrote in message
.. .

I once packed a box containing a monitor and keyboard to be shipped
ahead of me (I was flying) via UPS to a destination cross-country. I
had packed it using shaped foam that was at least 8 inches thick on
all sides and bottom and there was almost no possibility of inner
movement of either the monitor or keyboard. When I picked up the box
there was a nice hole with some 5" diameter dead-center on one of the
faces. On opening the box I found the keyboard had been demolished
but the monitor survived.

On closer look, it had the rough appearance of a sharp, conical
penetration. It was definitely NOT blunt damage. I then began to
imagine the idea that UPS keeps a steel cone mounted on their cement
factory floors, just for the occasional frustrated WHACK their
employees sometimes need to do to a box.

I really couldn't have anticipated this kind of penetration. It was
sharp, narrow, deep, and had enough of an impact to press through a
lot of foam and to then still break through the keyboard.

Fork lift tines?

Yes, that had crossed my mind. However, it was a conical penetration
that had a roughly circular external presentation. I suppose it is
possible that's what their tines looked like. But it didn't match
tines I've seen before.

Jon

Spamfree wrote:

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
...

"Spamfree" wrote in
t:


Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for
some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I
don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.


While you "could" be right about the calculations, R&D - etc of "bigger"
places, I think the gist of this is for "small" businesses (mom and pop) AND
individual sellers - the e-bay and newsgroups buying crowds. THEY don't use
high tech or high priced packaging. If you "pack" it securely - as you would
want to "receive" it - chances are you'll do a good job. Simply "throwing"
something into a box - adding some newspaper or peanuts and not "securing"
the item or cushioinng it - is half assed. Yes, it does take "some" effort
to pack - but again - it isn't "impossible" to get the hang of!

Fed Ex doesn't pick up (packages) near me - the closest place I know of, is
their terminal - 40 miles away. So, I use UPS and USPS. I've had a decent
record so far sending and receiving.



My favorite shipping fiasco came from drugstore.com. My wife ordered
some stuff, including a couple of Christmas presents from them last
year. Among the items she purchaed was a bottle of liquid chlorphyll,
which she likes to drink for here digestion.

They shipped it in their usual big box, with NO padding! Of course, the
glass bottle of chlorphyll was smashed, which stained everything in the
box, plus probably everything it came in contact with in the mail, a
bright green! The post office was not happy with that one!

Charlie

"Spamfree" wrote in message
...
What kills me, is when "I" get an item which is shipped in a box 6 or more
times the size of the item....... Talk about overkill!

Do 'ya buy much from Digikey?

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"Spamfree" wrote in message
...
What kills me, is when "I" get an item which is shipped in a box 6 or
more times the size of the item....... Talk about overkill!

Do 'ya buy much from Digikey?

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms


Hmmmm........ Good ?.. Actually, of all I've ordered from, I can't actually
recall if they were among them - for sure. There's been Mouser, MCM, Some
"manufacturers", and some 2 way radio distribution centers.