Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!



the box contains :


1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm
1 - AT50H Attenuator L-8 ohm (has three
contacts)
2 - 1/4 inch jacks (1 for in, and 1 for out) Mono

I am trying to wire it so the tweeter uses the attenuator (I think thats how
its supposed to be......correct me if I am wrong)

connected to the middle contact of the attenuator is a white component looks
like ceramic it says "10W 10-Ohm-J and has an HR in a diamond shape
connected to the right side contact on the Attenuator is a Yellow Component
that has the following written on it "TI 4.0J 250 VDC/160VAC"

This is confusing to me as to the proper wiring of the speaker monitor!

Please if you can help....draw me out a basci schematic.......and any advice
on better components etc.... I really need this monitor and there is no
technician here where I live!



Thanks Alot for any help!!!!!!!

marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms ! Are you sure it's a piezo or were you guessing ?

It's NOT a piezo. You can buy spare diaphragms.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Diaphragm-for-Fo...QQcmdZViewItem



1 - AT50H Attenuator L-8 ohm (has three
contacts)
2 - 1/4 inch jacks (1 for in, and 1 for out) Mono

I am trying to wire it so the tweeter uses the attenuator (I think thats how
its supposed to be......correct me if I am wrong)

So how is it wired now ?


connected to the middle contact of the attenuator is a white component looks
like ceramic it says "10W 10-Ohm-J

A 10 ohm 10 watt resistor. It should go in series with the piezo tweeter (except
it's not a piezo !) but even so it may be intended to be in series with the
tweeter.


and has an HR in a diamond shape
connected to the right side contact on the Attenuator is a Yellow Component
that has the following written on it "TI 4.0J 250 VDC/160VAC"

A 4 uF capacitor. It would seem to be forming a high pass filter incombination
with the attenuator.

Why do you need a schematic ? Isn't it already wired up ?

Graham

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 08:01:58 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

---
They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?


--
JF

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

---
They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?

They have Farads. And I'm sure you're going to nitpick now on account of the real
component of work. I suspect that may be outside the OP's area of scientific
understanding though.

Graham

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

PhattyMo wrote:

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

I think it's usually specified in nanofarads actually. It's still farads though,
not ohms.

Graham

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
PhattyMo wrote:

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

I think it's usually specified in nanofarads actually. It's still farads though,
not ohms.

Graham

It is IMPEDANCE, dumb ****.

Guess what the signifier is. OHMS!

Piezo tweeters are not rated in OHMS.

Graham

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
PhattyMo wrote:

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

I think it's usually specified in nanofarads actually. It's still farads though,
not ohms.

Graham

It is IMPEDANCE, dumb ****.

Guess what the signifier is. OHMS!

Piezo tweeters are not rated in OHMS.


No, but they present OHMS of impedance to an AC signal source, dip****.

Mainly REACTIVE ones not RESISTIVE.

Graham

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:44:23 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

---
They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?

They have Farads.

---
Farads doesn't make them work, what does is the poling of the
ceramic material, which then makes it piezoelectric.

He try to learn something:

http://www.americanpiezo.com/piezo_t...avior.html#top

http://www.pulsardevelopments.com/pr...l/piezoan.html
---

And I'm sure you're going to nitpick now on account of the real
component of work.

---
No need to, now that you've admitted that there _is_ a real,
resistive component to work. Not only that, a piezo transducer
exhibits an electrical (as well as mechanical) _impedance_ (as
opposed to merely a reactance) so there's also a real, resistive
component there.
---

I suspect that may be outside the OP's area of scientific
understanding though.

---
So what? Do you think that somehow minimizes your ignorance?


--
JF

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 10:52:54 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 14:40:56 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
PhattyMo wrote:

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

I think it's usually specified in nanofarads actually. It's still farads though,
not ohms.

Graham

It is IMPEDANCE, dumb ****.

Guess what the signifier is. OHMS!

Piezo tweeters are not rated in OHMS.


No, but they present OHMS of impedance to an AC signal source, dip****.

Mainly REACTIVE ones not RESISTIVE.


Still Ohms, nonetheless, chump.

Some speaker cables can have significant amounts of inductance, 10KHz
and up maybe. But the inductance is reactive, namely has a 90 degree
phase shift of voltage drop compared to resistance, so had much less
effect on speaker output.

With an 8 ohm resistive speaker load, 4 ohms of cable resistance drops
volume by almost 4 dB. 4 ohms of reactance only loses about 1 dB.

John

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 10:59:48 -0700, GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
g wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:06:50 -0500, John Fields
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:44:23 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

---
They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?

They have Farads.

---
Farads doesn't make them work, what does is the poling of the
ceramic material, which then makes it piezoelectric.

He try to learn something:

http://www.americanpiezo.com/piezo_t...avior.html#top

http://www.pulsardevelopments.com/pr...l/piezoan.html
---

And I'm sure you're going to nitpick now on account of the real
component of work.

---
No need to, now that you've admitted that there _is_ a real,
resistive component to work. Not only that, a piezo transducer
exhibits an electrical (as well as mechanical) _impedance_ (as
opposed to merely a reactance) so there's also a real, resistive
component there.
---

I suspect that may be outside the OP's area of scientific
understanding though.

---
So what? Do you think that somehow minimizes your ignorance?


We used a 200 plus wafer stack for micro-machining, so the pre-load
pressure, as well as the work pressure feedback also causes a reactance.

They operated at 800V from 20 to 20,000, and the nano-machining centers
are used for race horse contact lenses, and the machines were bought/made
for Bausch and Lomb.

One could cut an optical grade surface on the face of a spinning lathe
spindle, or even turn a round shaft into a square shaft with one of these
FSTs (Fast Tool Servo) tool heads attached. Total traverse, less than 2
mm. Surface finish/quality accuracy, less than 2 microns.

---
Interesting.

Years ago, for the U.S. Navy, I designed and built a 40kHz projector
using a hollow spherical segment of PZT8 as the projector and a
couple of ENI 1kW power amps to drive it, underwater.

When we fired it up a visible, golf-ball sized area of cavitation
appeared at what was the focal point, the center of the sphere.

Pretty neat machine. :-)

I'll post pictures if anyone's interested.


--
JF

"John Fields" wrote in message
...

snip


Years ago, for the U.S. Navy, I designed and built a 40kHz projector
using a hollow spherical segment of PZT8 as the projector and a
couple of ENI 1kW power amps to drive it, underwater.

When we fired it up a visible, golf-ball sized area of cavitation
appeared at what was the focal point, the center of the sphere.

Pretty neat machine. :-)

I'll post pictures if anyone's interested.



Please do!

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:16:05 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 02:55:41 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



PhattyMo wrote:

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

I think it's usually specified in nanofarads actually. It's still farads though,
not ohms.

Graham

It is IMPEDANCE, dumb ****.

Guess what the signifier is. OHMS!

Guess who unnecessarily, and incorrectly uses terms like "Dumb ****"
to others and then in the same sentence shows his own lack of
competence? Just a little common courtesy shows more knowledge than
derogatory terms which only end up degrading the person who uses them,
and makes him a laughing stock when as so often happens, his comment
is just plain wrong.

My friend, it is correct o state the input as capacitance, because
that is exactly what it is. Thus the impedance is frequency dependent.
Had you stated a specific frequency then, the use of impedance is
relevant, but usually speakers are used over a range of frequencies,
and not at a single frequency. (yes I know that the coil speakers
also vary in impedance with frequency and mounting conditions).

Peter Dettmann

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 15:14:03 -0500, "Lord Garth"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
.. .

snip


Years ago, for the U.S. Navy, I designed and built a 40kHz projector
using a hollow spherical segment of PZT8 as the projector and a
couple of ENI 1kW power amps to drive it, underwater.

When we fired it up a visible, golf-ball sized area of cavitation
appeared at what was the focal point, the center of the sphere.

Pretty neat machine. :-)

I'll post pictures if anyone's interested.



Please do!

---
OK...


--
JF

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:32:09 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 12:14:12 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 10:52:54 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 14:40:56 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
PhattyMo wrote:

They have MICRO-farads at best.

I'd guess it's more like pico-farads.

I think it's usually specified in nanofarads actually. It's still farads though,
not ohms.

Graham

It is IMPEDANCE, dumb ****.

Guess what the signifier is. OHMS!

Piezo tweeters are not rated in OHMS.


No, but they present OHMS of impedance to an AC signal source, dip****.

Mainly REACTIVE ones not RESISTIVE.


Still Ohms, nonetheless, chump.

Some speaker cables can have significant amounts of inductance, 10KHz
and up maybe. But the inductance is reactive, namely has a 90 degree
phase shift of voltage drop compared to resistance, so had much less
effect on speaker output.

With an 8 ohm resistive speaker load, 4 ohms of cable resistance drops
volume by almost 4 dB. 4 ohms of reactance only loses about 1 dB.


Nice, Johnny. Except that this sub-thread is about piezoelectric
tweeters.

Any speaker load should be mainly resistive; its function is to make
noise, after all. But if a piezo load has a significant capacitive
component, cable resistance will produce less loss than it would if
the load were purely resistive. And cable inductance could well
produce voltage *gain* into the speaker.

John

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:44:29 -0700, GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
g wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 17:20:48 -0500, John Fields
wrote:

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 15:14:03 -0500, "Lord Garth"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
...

snip


Years ago, for the U.S. Navy, I designed and built a 40kHz projector
using a hollow spherical segment of PZT8 as the projector and a
couple of ENI 1kW power amps to drive it, underwater.

When we fired it up a visible, golf-ball sized area of cavitation
appeared at what was the focal point, the center of the sphere.

Pretty neat machine. :-)

I'll post pictures if anyone's interested.



Please do!

---
OK...

Pretty cool stuff.

http://www.precitech.com/index.html

This is what our piezo stacks went into.

Tightest tolerances in the world.

---
Very nice. :-)

I was watching "How it's made" or "How do they do it" the other day,
and they were showing how contact lenses are made today. Absolutely
amazing! Any profile can be cut into the lens and the steps will be
undetectable.

That is, no jaggies will be seen by the patient...


--
JF

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:37:25 -0700, ChairmanOfTheBored
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:03:27 +1000, Peter Dettmann
wrote:

Guess who unnecessarily, and incorrectly uses terms like "Dumb ****"
to others and then in the same sentence shows his own lack of
competence?

It is OHMS, idiot.

Ohms come in two kinds, up-down and sideways. They work quite
differently in AC circuits.

Trig. You know, math and stuff.

John

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

---
They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?

They have Farads.

---
Farads doesn't make them work, what does is the poling of the
ceramic material, which then makes it piezoelectric.

He try to learn something:

http://www.americanpiezo.com/piezo_t...avior.html#top

http://www.pulsardevelopments.com/pr...l/piezoan.html
---

And I'm sure you're going to nitpick now on account of the real
component of work.

---
No need to, now that you've admitted that there _is_ a real,
resistive component to work. Not only that, a piezo transducer
exhibits an electrical (as well as mechanical) _impedance_ (as
opposed to merely a reactance) so there's also a real, resistive
component there.
---

I suspect that may be outside the OP's area of scientific
understanding though.

---
So what? Do you think that somehow minimizes your ignorance?

Actually, I simply don't feel the need to confuse the beginner with detail unrelated
to his enquiry. I see plenty of responders who choose to answer a simple question
with a lecture, I for my part prefer to offer a concise answer.

Graham

John Larkin wrote:

With an 8 ohm resistive speaker load, 4 ohms of cable resistance drops
volume by almost 4 dB. 4 ohms of reactance only loses about 1 dB.

I'd be interested to see a real world speaker cable with 4 ohms of either.

Graham

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:45:21 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in need of
a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker cabinet....heres the
details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8 Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also 8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

---
They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?

They have Farads.

---
Farads doesn't make them work, what does is the poling of the
ceramic material, which then makes it piezoelectric.

He try to learn something:

http://www.americanpiezo.com/piezo_t...avior.html#top

http://www.pulsardevelopments.com/pr...l/piezoan.html
---

And I'm sure you're going to nitpick now on account of the real
component of work.

---
No need to, now that you've admitted that there _is_ a real,
resistive component to work. Not only that, a piezo transducer
exhibits an electrical (as well as mechanical) _impedance_ (as
opposed to merely a reactance) so there's also a real, resistive
component there.
---

I suspect that may be outside the OP's area of scientific
understanding though.

---
So what? Do you think that somehow minimizes your ignorance?

Actually, I simply don't feel the need to confuse the beginner with detail unrelated
to his enquiry. I see plenty of responders who choose to answer a simple question
with a lecture, I for my part prefer to offer a concise answer.

---
LOL, so saying that "Farads" is what makes it work (even though
that's wrong) won't confuse the OP because it's concise?


--
JF

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:47:07 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

With an 8 ohm resistive speaker load, 4 ohms of cable resistance drops
volume by almost 4 dB. 4 ohms of reactance only loses about 1 dB.

I'd be interested to see a real world speaker cable with 4 ohms of either.

---
a 200 foot run of 20 AWG from the civilized world will get the
resistance, but at about 20nF/foot required to get to 4 ohms at
10kHz, it's not likely that most speaker cable will exhibit that
much reactance.


--
JF

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:15:27 -0500, John Fields
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:47:07 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

With an 8 ohm resistive speaker load, 4 ohms of cable resistance drops
volume by almost 4 dB. 4 ohms of reactance only loses about 1 dB.

I'd be interested to see a real world speaker cable with 4 ohms of either.

---
a 200 foot run of 20 AWG from the civilized world will get the
resistance, but at about 20nF/foot required to get to 4 ohms at
10kHz, it's not likely that most speaker cable will exhibit that
much reactance.



It's not hard to get 10 microhenries per meter with a loose twisted
pair. So a reasonable speaker run, at 20 KHz, can easily hit 4 ohms
inductive reactance. Not that anybody can hear the difference.

One of my customers made some very expensive custom cables. To run a
signal out and back maybe 10 meters, to an NMR coil, they used two
runs of RG-8, with the centers carrying the signals and the shields
grounded. The centers were so far apart, they had something like 15
uH/m, and the cable had more inductance than the load, and an
unreasonable dcr to boot.

I got them to try our home-made coax idea, with the super-thin teflon
insulation. That improved things by 10:1 or something like that.

Why do donkeys bray before they think?

John

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:46:22 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]

Why do donkeys bray before they think?

John


The empty skull is the sound chamber ??

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:15:27 -0500, John Fields
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:47:07 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

With an 8 ohm resistive speaker load, 4 ohms of cable resistance drops
volume by almost 4 dB. 4 ohms of reactance only loses about 1 dB.

I'd be interested to see a real world speaker cable with 4 ohms of either.

---
a 200 foot run of 20 AWG from the civilized world will get the
resistance, but at about 20nF/foot required to get to 4 ohms at
10kHz, it's not likely that most speaker cable will exhibit that
much reactance.



It's not hard to get 10 microhenries per meter with a loose twisted
pair. So a reasonable speaker run, at 20 KHz, can easily hit 4 ohms
inductive reactance. Not that anybody can hear the difference.

One of my customers made some very expensive custom cables. To run a
signal out and back maybe 10 meters, to an NMR coil, they used two
runs of RG-8, with the centers carrying the signals and the shields
grounded. The centers were so far apart, they had something like 15
uH/m, and the cable had more inductance than the load, and an
unreasonable dcr to boot.

I got them to try our home-made coax idea, with the super-thin teflon
insulation. That improved things by 10:1 or something like that.

Why do donkeys bray before they think?


They aren't really braying. The starter motor for their vacuum tube
brain has stripped gears.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:56:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:46:22 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]

Why do donkeys bray before they think?

John


The empty skull is the sound chamber ??

...Jim Thompson


b-ass reflex.

John

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:44:23 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
marco9 wrote:

Hey guys new to the NG, but have been monitoring for a bit. I am in
need of a schematic for a two way floor monitor speaker
cabinet....heres the details.....maybe someone can help!!!

the box contains :

1 - 15 Inch 250W H325 woofer which is 8
Ohm
(Not sure of Brand)
1 - Peizo Tweeter (Horn) Fostex 025H30 also
8 Ohm

Piezo tweeter don't have Ohms

They don't?

Then how do they manage to do work?

They have Farads. And I'm sure you're going to nitpick now on account of
the real component of work. I suspect that may be outside the OP's area of
scientific understanding though.


Of course they have ohms! An infinite number of them, in fact! ;-)

And at the frequencies in question, they have "impedance".

Cheers!
Rich