I'd be interested to know if anyone has used these rather stylish electrical
sockets:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ets/index.html -
these are from TLC but Screwfix now carry a similar range. It's not at all
clear from the illustrations just how they are mounted; presumably the
fixings are concealed inside the boxes, but how are they accessed?

Many thanks.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

Bert Coules wrote:

It's not at all
clear from the illustrations just how they are mounted; presumably the
fixings are concealed inside the boxes, but how are they accessed?

Looks to me that the outer rim would "pop" off, leaving the circular
part raised, and the screws to the sides of that?

Brushed chrome finish it says? Crushed coal more like!

Andy,

Thanks for the reply.

Looks to me that the outer rim would "pop" off, leaving the circular
part raised, and the screws to the sides of that?

Yes, I wondered about that. It does seem the likeliest solution.

Brushed chrome finish it says? Crushed coal more like!

For the actual socket bit, you mean? I rather like that - a pleasant change
from the usual white. It's hard to judge the outer housing (which
presumably is the brushed chrome bit - I wonder what they brush it with?)
from the pictures.

I think I'm going to give these a try in my new kitchen. I hate chasing out
for sunken wall-boxes, and especially trying to get two or three to line up
neatly next to each other.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

Bert Coules wrote:

For the actual socket bit, you mean? I rather like that - a pleasant change
from the usual white.

I didn't say they were bad.

I think I'm going to give these a try in my new kitchen. I hate chasing out
for sunken wall-boxes, and especially trying to get two or three to line up
neatly next to each other.

FX: penny dropping

Ahh, just had another look, I think I see now! The 30° angled section is
_part_of_ the socket, I was thinking they were just mounted on that for
display, and you'd have to fit something similar yourself ...

Andy,

Ahh, just had another look, I think I see now! The 30° angled section is
_part_of_ the socket, I was thinking they were just mounted on that for
display, and you'd have to fit something similar yourself ...

I understand your confusion. No, the brushed chrome wedge-shaped mount is
part and parcel of the whole thing. If you choose the worktop/wall angle as
the place to put them (as opposed to the underside-of-the-wall-unit/wall
angle) then clearly they'll take up some of the worktop space, but I'm
inclined to think that's a small price to pay for neatness and convenience.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

I would be very wary of these sockets. The doubles are un-switched plus the
single switched are in my opinion expensive.

I tried one of these in a customers kitchen who wanted a lot of sockets and
not see them, well they are not all that well hidden plus you have a flex
going ALL the way UP to under the cupboard.

You are much better off mounting a socket at the height prescribed in the
current IEE regulations and I am not too sure if these are to British
Standards either.

Beware of doing DIY from 1st Jan Nest year unless you consult building
control and have it tested you will be breaking the law and could be fined a
hefty sum check out www.a2znorthants.co.uk and click on part P

Regards John Stanton
"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
I'd be interested to know if anyone has used these rather stylish
electrical
sockets:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ets/index.html -
these are from TLC but Screwfix now carry a similar range. It's not at
all
clear from the illustrations just how they are mounted; presumably the
fixings are concealed inside the boxes, but how are they accessed?

Many thanks.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

John,

Thanks for the reply.

I would be very wary of these sockets. The doubles are un-switched plus
the
single switched are in my opinion expensive.

I don't see the lack of switches as any sort of drawback. And the range
doesn't include any single switched sockets: what looks like one is, in
fact, a single unswitched socket and a quite separate switch in the same
housing. An unusual arrangement, I agree. As to expense, well, something
is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I tried one of these in a customer's kitchen who wanted a lot of sockets
and
not see them, well they are not all that well hidden plus you have a flex
going ALL the way UP to under the cupboard.

I was thinking of mounting them in the alternative position, on the worktop.

You are much better off mounting a socket at the height prescribed in the
current IEE regulations...

I really don't see why.

...and I am not too sure if these are to British Standards either.

Wouldn't that mean they were being sold illegally? From a supplier with the
reputation on TLC, isn't that a little surprising?

Beware of doing DIY from 1st Jan next year unless you consult building
control and have it tested you will be breaking the law...

I'm aware of this impending legislation, consider it ridiculous and
intrusive, and have no intention of allowing it to stop me doing my own
wiring in my own home.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

"dms1.go-plus.net" wrote in message
...
I would be very wary of these sockets. The doubles are un-switched plus
the
single switched are in my opinion expensive.

I tried one of these in a customers kitchen who wanted a lot of sockets
and
not see them, well they are not all that well hidden plus you have a flex
going ALL the way UP to under the cupboard.

You are much better off mounting a socket at the height prescribed in the
current IEE regulations and I am not too sure if these are to British
Standards either.

What height is that?

Beware of doing DIY from 1st Jan Nest year unless you consult building
control and have it tested you will be breaking the law and could be fined
a
hefty sum check out www.a2znorthants.co.uk and click on part P

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
I'd be interested to know if anyone has used these rather stylish
electrical
sockets:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...ets/index.html -
these are from TLC but Screwfix now carry a similar range. It's not at
all
clear from the illustrations just how they are mounted; presumably the
fixings are concealed inside the boxes, but how are they accessed?

Many thanks.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk



I have fitted these and they are incredibly badly designed.

There are no useful instructions in the packaging.

The sockets are screwed to the metal wedge; the fixings are tabs on the
inside of the wedge.
Each socket is individually wired.

Thus, to fit a double socket in a ring final circuit, you need to remove the
socket inserts, mount the "wedge" (it wobbles!), pull the ring circuit feeds
through the holes where the sockets fit, wire each socket insert and then
another cable to wire between the two sockets. Clearly the metal wedge
should also be earthed and I cannot remember if a flylead was included or if
I just crimped a ring to go under a fixing screw.

Once all the wires are in place, the whole lot has to be crammed untidily
into the case so that the sockets can be screwed in place. It is well worth
using a proper cable stripper as any nipped cores are likely to get
fractured.

Having spent ages fitting the buggers, the client decided to replace them as
they were "too flimsily mounted"

I would never advise using these fittings

They did look very pretty though!

HTH
Adrian

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:32:20 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

What height is that?

Well **** me, that's exactly the question I was about to ask.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

Adrian,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I have fitted these and they are incredibly badly designed.

They sound it. I'm grateful for advice based on your actually having worked
with them. Did you use the ones from TLC, or a similar product from another
source? I know I've seen a very slightly different design somewhere - I
thought it was from Screwfix but I can't find them on their website, so I
suppose it must have been another supplier.

I've ordered a sample double socket from TLC to have a look at. If they're
as dodgy as you say I'll probably give the whole idea a miss. A pity
though - they really do seem like the most stylish alternative to sinking
those damned galvanised boxes into the wall. The only other non-sinking
method I can think of is to use surface-mounted pattress boxes: terribly
ugly and intrusive.

Thanks again.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

"Adrian Berry" wrote in message
...

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
I'd be interested to know if anyone has used these rather stylish
electrical
sockets:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind..._Index/Under_W
orktop_Sockets/index.html -
these are from TLC but Screwfix now carry a similar range. It's not at
all
clear from the illustrations just how they are mounted; presumably the
fixings are concealed inside the boxes, but how are they accessed?

Many thanks.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk



I have fitted these and they are incredibly badly designed.

The Screwfix or TLC versions?

"Adrian Berry" wrote in message
...

They did look very pretty though!

They do look good from the picture. I think it is worth the fiddling to
prevent the wall being butchered out. The cable can go in the cable void
behind the cupboard. Surely they can be secured well, even if it means
drilling a few holes behind the units here and there.

"Adrian Berry" wrote in message
...

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
I'd be interested to know if anyone has used these rather stylish
electrical
sockets:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind..._Index/Under_W
orktop_Sockets/index.html -
these are from TLC but Screwfix now carry a similar range. It's not at
all
clear from the illustrations just how they are mounted; presumably the
fixings are concealed inside the boxes, but how are they accessed?

Many thanks.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk



I have fitted these and they are incredibly badly designed.

There are no useful instructions in the packaging.

The sockets are screwed to the metal wedge; the fixings are tabs on the
inside of the wedge.
Each socket is individually wired.

Thus, to fit a double socket in a ring final circuit, you need to remove
the
socket inserts, mount the "wedge" (it wobbles!), pull the ring circuit
feeds
through the holes where the sockets fit, wire each socket insert and then
another cable to wire between the two sockets. Clearly the metal wedge
should also be earthed and I cannot remember if a flylead was included or
if
I just crimped a ring to go under a fixing screw.

Once all the wires are in place, the whole lot has to be crammed untidily
into the case so that the sockets can be screwed in place. It is well
worth
using a proper cable stripper as any nipped cores are likely to get
fractured.

That sounds like wiring any socket.

Having spent ages fitting the buggers, the client decided to replace them
as
they were "too flimsily mounted"

I would never advise using these fittings

They did look very pretty though!

HTH
Adrian

In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
A pity though - they really do seem like the most stylish alternative to
sinking those damned galvanised boxes into the wall. The only other
non-sinking method I can think of is to use surface-mounted pattress
boxes: terribly ugly and intrusive.

Get an rotary hammer (SDS with rotation stop) and chasing out boxes
becomes pretty easy. Think they start at about 30 quid these days.

FWIW, I think those angled sockets look awful. Decent SS types set
squarely and evenly in tiles look the bizz.

--
*Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
They do look good from the picture. I think it is worth the fiddling to
prevent the wall being butchered out. The cable can go in the cable void
behind the cupboard. Surely they can be secured well, even if it means
drilling a few holes behind the units here and there.

Be easier - and neater - to make a fillet piece out of whatever the units
are and run it the length of the cupboards. Then simply cut in normal
boxes for normal sockets. If you really can only butcher a wall when
fitting boxes.
Perhaps you need a decent SDS rotary stop drill rather than the rubbish
you keep recommending here?

--
*For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"IMM" writes:

"dms1.go-plus.net" wrote in message
...
I would be very wary of these sockets. The doubles are un-switched plus the
single switched are in my opinion expensive.

I've saw them on the continent some time before I saw them over here.
They were originally designed for Shuko and the French/Belgium sockets,
hence the 13A socket in a round cutout. I would want to try one out
for quality before buying a kitchen full of them.

There are lights in the same design, and they are a really bad idea.
The light reflects off everything on the worktop straight into your
eyes.

I tried one of these in a customers kitchen who wanted a lot of sockets and
not see them, well they are not all that well hidden plus you have a flex
going ALL the way UP to under the cupboard.

You are much better off mounting a socket at the height prescribed in the
current IEE regulations and I am not too sure if these are to British
Standards either.

What height is that?

IEE regs doesn't have any height prescribed, but 110cm from floor
to bottom of socket is common and works with typical kitchen units.
Remember to allow for floor thickness if flooring isn't yet fitted.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Adrian,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I have fitted these and they are incredibly badly designed.

They sound it. I'm grateful for advice based on your actually having
worked
with them. Did you use the ones from TLC, or a similar product from
another
source? I know I've seen a very slightly different design somewhere - I
thought it was from Screwfix but I can't find them on their website, so I
suppose it must have been another supplier.



They were from TLC (Merton)

Dave,

Thanks for the reply.

Get a rotary hammer (SDS with rotation stop) and chasing out boxes
becomes pretty easy.

I have one, and have also experimented with those square-chisel box-cutters.
Depending on the state of the walls (extremely variable in my place) I can
usually make the edges of the cut-out quite neat; but to create a flat, even
back to the hole, at the correct depth, almost invariably escapes me.

Plus, I hate the mess.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

Andrew,

Thanks for the reply.

I would want to try one out
for quality before buying a kitchen full of them.

I've now ordered one from TLC to have a look at. I wish I could remember
where else I've seen them; I was sure it was Screwfix but I can't find them
on their website. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful for them.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
but to create a flat, even back to the hole, at the correct depth,
almost invariably escapes me.

You don't need to. Simply make it large enough and slop in a dollop of
quickset mortar. Wedge the box in place until it dries.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave,

You don't need to. Simply make it large enough and slop in a dollop of
quickset mortar. Wedge the box in place until it dries.

And then mark for the securing screw, remove the box and drill and plug the
hole, you mean? I have tried that in the past with reasonable results;
perhaps I'll give it another go. Thanks.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
They do look good from the picture. I think it is worth the fiddling to
prevent the wall being butchered out. The cable can go in the cable
void
behind the cupboard. Surely they can be secured well, even if it means
drilling a few holes behind the units here and there.

Be easier - and neater - to make a

It woudn't.

snip the rest of the babble

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Dave,

You don't need to. Simply make it large enough and slop in a dollop of
quickset mortar. Wedge the box in place until it dries.

And then mark for the securing screw, remove the box and drill and plug
the
hole, you mean? I have tried that in the past with reasonable results;
perhaps I'll give it another go. Thanks.


I tend to drill the securing holes & plug before the dollop of plaster - as
you tighten the screws pullng the box home it squeezes the plaster out & it
can be scraped off flush. All rock solid & secure once it's set.

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Richard,

I tend to drill the securing holes & plug before the dollop of plaster -
as
you tighten the screws pulling the box home it squeezes the plaster out &
it
can be scraped off flush. All rock solid & secure once it's set.

That makes sense, thanks; though I do recall on some past attempts that the
brickwork had crumbled so much that drilling a hole before putting in the
mortar was simply impossible. Probably I've just been unlucky with my
walls. I take the point that it can be damaging to try to remove the box
once the plaster's in and set, though.

IEE regs doesn't have any height prescribed, but 110cm from floor
to bottom of socket is common and works with typical kitchen units.
Remember to allow for floor thickness if flooring isn't yet fitted.

Yes, I've used 20cm from worksurface to bottom of socket for mine (which is
the same thing given 90cm standard worksurface height). It seems to be a
reasonable compromise between having excessively trailing leads and not
having the sockets blocked by the worksurface contents.

Christian.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
snip

Get an rotary hammer (SDS with rotation stop) and chasing out boxes
becomes pretty easy. Think they start at about 30 quid these days.

How do these work? Do they literally just smash into the wall
creating a socket sized rectangular hole? Is it a one step process or
do you need to pre-drill or do any extra chiselling out at the end?

cheers

--
Steve F

Steve,

How do these work? Do they literally just smash into the wall
creating a socket sized rectangular hole? Is it a one step process or
do you need to pre-drill or do any extra chiselling out at the end?

It's a three (and possible a four) stage process:

Having marked out the position of the box, you drill a central hole which
will eventually take a wallplug for the securing screw.

You then use a two-inch circular face cutter (supplied in the full kit) to
cut a round hole to the depth needed by the box. The cutter has a central
guiding rod which fits into the pre-drilled hole.

With the SDS drill set to hammer only, you use the box cutter (which also
has a central guide rod) to cut the edges of the square (or rectangular)
hole to the correct depth. If you're lucky, the masonry between the edges
and the round hole will just break away. If you're unlucky you move on to
stage four, and...

Chisel away the excess brick.

I found that the system works well. It does, though, produce a fair old bit
of noise, vibration and dust.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

"Bert Coules" wrote
| That makes sense, thanks; though I do recall on some past attempts
| that the brickwork had crumbled so much that drilling a hole before
| putting in the mortar was simply impossible. Probably I've just
| been unlucky with my walls. I take the point that it can be
| damaging to try to remove the box once the plaster's in and set,
| though.

If you have a bank of sockets etc to mount, join the back boxes together
rigidly with conduit couplers and bushes etc into a single rigid assembly.
(Check distance between boxes to allow room for faceplate overlap). Work
against a raised lip on a workbench and you will have the top of the boxes
in a straight line as well as the backs on a plane surface. Then cement the
whole lot into the all in one go.

If you mount your sockets a multiple-of-tile-size apart and know where your
tile joints will be on the finished wall you can get a nice regular tiling
pattern with no socket edge sitting close-but-not-quite on a grout line.

Owain

In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:

In article ,
"IMM" writes:

"dms1.go-plus.net" wrote in message
...

[Snip]

You are much better off mounting a socket at the height prescribed in the
current IEE regulations and I am not too sure if these are to British
Standards either.

What height is that?

IEE regs doesn't have any height prescribed, but 110cm from floor
to bottom of socket is common and works with typical kitchen units.
Remember to allow for floor thickness if flooring isn't yet fitted.

According to the OSG (Appendix 8):

"The Building Regulations require switches and socket-outlets in
dwellings to be installed so that all persons including those
whose reach is limited can easily use them"

It quotes a height between 450 and 1200 mm from the ground. Looks like a
piece of bureaucracy which makes little allowance for the actual use to
which the relevant device is to be put. It does go on to say that this
does not apply to kitchens and garages but to rooms that visitors would
normally use, but I can think of several sockets and switches in our
living room and bedrooms that visitors would have no need to touch.

--
Mike Clarke

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote
| What height is that?
| IEE regs doesn't have any height prescribed, but 110cm from floor
| to bottom of socket is common and works with typical kitchen units.
| Remember to allow for floor thickness if flooring isn't yet fitted.

From a typical 3' worktop height that's only about 8". I would prefer and
have 14"[1] as it means the socket clears the top of the m/wave and other
appliances etc that accumulate.

Owain

[1] Stop s******ing at the back.

Owain,

If you have a bank of sockets etc to mount, join the back boxes together
rigidly with conduit couplers and bushes etc into a single rigid assembly.
(Check distance between boxes to allow room for faceplate overlap). Work
against a raised lip on a workbench and you will have the top of the boxes
in a straight line as well as the backs on a plane surface. Then cement
the
whole lot into the all in one go.

That is an excellent suggestion. Thank you.

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

In article ,
Mike Clarke writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:
IEE regs doesn't have any height prescribed, but 110cm from floor
to bottom of socket is common and works with typical kitchen units.
Remember to allow for floor thickness if flooring isn't yet fitted.

According to the OSG (Appendix 8):

"The Building Regulations require switches and socket-outlets in
dwellings to be installed so that all persons including those
whose reach is limited can easily use them"

It quotes a height between 450 and 1200 mm from the ground. Looks like a
piece of bureaucracy which makes little allowance for the actual use to
which the relevant device is to be put. It does go on to say that this
does not apply to kitchens and garages but to rooms that visitors would
normally use, but I can think of several sockets and switches in our
living room and bedrooms that visitors would have no need to touch.

This is a reference to Part M of the building regs.
It only applies to new builds, not to modifications and
extensions, although you are of course free to apply it
if you want to. The heights quoted are examples and not
strict rules, and might not be appropriate in all cases.
In partcular, beware the 450mm min height could be quite
a trip hazard for a socket outlet, and think carefully
about any additional consequences of tripping at that
location, such as falling through a window or down steps.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote
| What height is that?
| IEE regs doesn't have any height prescribed, but 110cm from floor
| to bottom of socket is common and works with typical kitchen units.
| Remember to allow for floor thickness if flooring isn't yet fitted.

From a typical 3' worktop height that's only about 8". I would prefer and
have 14"[1] as it means the socket clears the top of the m/wave and other
appliances etc that accumulate.

Same here. These angled sockets under teh cupboards are ideal. Most sockets
over worktops are behind toasters and coffee jars. A silly place to have
them.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:29:58 -0000, "Owain"
strung together this:

If you have a bank of sockets etc to mount, join the back boxes together
rigidly with conduit couplers and bushes etc into a single rigid assembly.


Nice idea, which I have done before but only on council jobs, more
particularly in schools, rather than anywhere else.
It's not quite as rigid a structure as you imagine, although it's
still fairly rigid, it does need levelling up before fixing.
Distances between shouldn't be a problem as couplers are 35mm long,
way more than a couple of overlaps.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:17:11 -0000, "Bert Coules"
strung together this:

And then mark for the securing screw, remove the box and drill and plug the
hole, you mean?

No, that's the daft persons way! Leave the cement to set then drill,
plug and screw through the box.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:31:50 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

That sounds like wiring any socket.

Only if you have never seen a socket before.
Stick to ****ing up plumbing threads, you're even worse at electrics.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:31:50 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

That sounds like wiring any socket.

Only if you have never seen a socket before.
Stick to ****ing up plumbing threads, you're even worse at electrics.

I am brilliant at anything electrical and also at life in general.

You have been at the Guinness haven't you?

Lurch,

No, that's the daft persons way! Leave the cement to set then drill,
plug and screw through the box.

And how exactly do I plug the wall with the box in situ?

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk

Lurch,

If you have a bank of sockets etc to mount, join the back boxes together
rigidly with conduit couplers and bushes etc into a single rigid
assembly.

It's not quite as rigid a structure as you imagine...

How about mounting a row of sockets on a timber board or batten and burying
that in the wall?

Bert
http://www.bertcoules.co.uk