Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Out of the blue, my faithfull old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit.
After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips. The strange thing is that I've left the washing machine unplugged and yet the RCD still tripped a couple more times, but seems to have settled now and been ok for a few hours. So, two questions:- 1. Any idea why the RCD might be tripping when machine is not plugged in (I'm assuming it is the machine that is faulty) 2. Assuming the machine is faulty, anyone know where to start looking for what could be causing the imbalance? Don't want to invest in a new machine if this one could be fixed easily/cheaply. Note that the ring main MCB is not tripping, just the RCD for all the downstairs breakers. I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc. Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. Thanks, as always, for sharing your knowledge and experience. |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On 12/02/2019 15:27, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote: I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc.Â* Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. could be leakage of the mains filter in the machine, if you test on the plug of the washing machine, what impedance do you see across E&L, and E&N ... megger would be better than a multimeter if you have one. Could be a chafed cable connection e.g. neutral to earth (if it was live to earth or to neutral it would be fuses or MCBs tripping) Did you read the bit where he said 'it tripped with the washing machine UNPLUGGED Clearly the fault is not with the washing machine: that is simply the trigger. -- Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns. |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 15:18:10 UTC, wrote:
Out of the blue, my faithfull old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips. The strange thing is that I've left the washing machine unplugged and yet the RCD still tripped a couple more times, but seems to have settled now and been ok for a few hours. So, two questions:- 1. Any idea why the RCD might be tripping when machine is not plugged in (I'm assuming it is the machine that is faulty) 2. Assuming the machine is faulty, anyone know where to start looking for what could be causing the imbalance? Don't want to invest in a new machine if this one could be fixed easily/cheaply. Note that the ring main MCB is not tripping, just the RCD for all the downstairs breakers. I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc. Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. Thanks, as always, for sharing your knowledge and experience. Look for the faulty appliance(s) by resistance testing from L+N to E or case with it unplugged & its power switch on. Using a multimeter will often pick up leaky items, a megger more reliably does. NT |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Yes also any anti surge socket bars as well.
Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Bob Minchin" wrote in message ... On 12/02/2019 15:18, wrote: Out of the blue, my faithfull old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips. The strange thing is that I've left the washing machine unplugged and yet the RCD still tripped a couple more times, but seems to have settled now and been ok for a few hours. So, two questions:- 1. Any idea why the RCD might be tripping when machine is not plugged in (I'm assuming it is the machine that is faulty) 2. Assuming the machine is faulty, anyone know where to start looking for what could be causing the imbalance? Don't want to invest in a new machine if this one could be fixed easily/cheaply. Note that the ring main MCB is not tripping, just the RCD for all the downstairs breakers. I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc. Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. Thanks, as always, for sharing your knowledge and experience. The RCD is looking as the cumulative earth leakage across all the circuits connected to it. So it is likely that several items are adding up to enough to cause a trip but no one item will be enough to trip it. Progressively test the leakage of the likely culprits one at a time. best to do the tests at mains voltage or with a megger tester as many leaks will be voltage dependent and your LV ohm meter possibly will not show up a fault. Things with heating elements are worth looking at first cooker rings, oven, dishwasher, immersion etc Second are things with RFI filters in where capacitors have gone leaky. |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
No you have a cumulative issue here. Not just one device. I'd most certainly
remove everything of that ring and test the washer on its own. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "T i m" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 07:18:07 -0800 (PST), wrote: Out of the blue, my faithfull old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips. snip When mine was doing that it was carbon (brush) dust on / around the motor and blowing it out with a compressor fixed it. In our case it was tripping when power was supplied at the wall, *even* if the machine was off. Cheers, T i m |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#12
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
wrote
Out of the blue, my faithfull old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips. The strange thing is that I've left the washing machine unplugged and yet the RCD still tripped a couple more times, That means the RCD itself is likely faulty, try replacing it. In theory it could be a wiring fault to the socket you plug the washer into, but thats not as easy to test for but seems to have settled now and been ok for a few hours. So, two questions:- 1. Any idea why the RCD might be tripping when machine is not plugged in Two obvious possibilitys are a faulty RCD and a wiring fault with the wiring to that socket. (I'm assuming it is the machine that is faulty) You can't assume that with those symptoms. 2. Assuming the machine is faulty, Looks unlikely given that it does trip at time when its unplugged. anyone know where to start looking for what could be causing the imbalance? Most likely a wire has come adrift or is charred etc or water has got in where it shouldnt, but that wont be the case with your washer. Don't want to invest in a new machine if this one could be fixed easily/cheaply. Note that the ring main MCB is not tripping, just the RCD for all the downstairs breakers. I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc. Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. Most likely the RCD is faulty but it can easily be the wiring to the socket. Thanks, as always, for sharing your knowledge and experience. |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
"Andy Burns" wrote in message ... wrote: I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc. Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. could be leakage of the mains filter in the machine, No, because it has tripped with the washer not even plugged in. if you test on the plug of the washing machine, what impedance do you see across E&L, and E&N ... megger would be better than a multimeter if you have one. Could be a chafed cable connection e.g. neutral to earth (if it was live to earth or to neutral it would be fuses or MCBs tripping) |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 18:16:12 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote: No you have a cumulative issue here. Not just one device. I didn't suggest otherwise Brian. However, if the WM causes an overload it could well also be part of the problem. Cheers, T i m |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Brian Gaff wrote
More likely to be a pin hole in a hose near some electrical part. Nope, because the RCD still trips occasionally with the washer not even plugged in. After all those internal hoses do get a pounding on spin you know. I'm rather intrigued by the memory effect of your cut out device myself. The explanation is obvious, faulty RCD, faulty wiring or some other device that is leaking not quite enough to trip the RCD and the washer turned on adds enough more of a leakage to trip the RCD. Are we totally sure that the device itself is not suddenly ultra sensitive. Any chance of swapping one from another circuit to prove its the appliance given the trips when the device is unplugged. Better to unplug everything else plugged in first to check if that’s what is leading, not the washer. "Andy Burns" wrote in message ... wrote: I have electrical knowledge and multimeters etc. Just seeking opionions on what might be most likely. could be leakage of the mains filter in the machine, if you test on the plug of the washing machine, what impedance do you see across E&L, and E&N ... megger would be better than a multimeter if you have one. Could be a chafed cable connection e.g. neutral to earth (if it was live to earth or to neutral it would be fuses or MCBs tripping) |
#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Wow! Just wow! Thanks so much guys - this is all really good advice.
It did strike me that it could be the RCD at fault. I will run a long cable to a socket that's hung off the other RCD and see if the washer still trips it. I can also plug the washer directly into a portable 30mA trip RCD. The suggestion re carbon in the motor could well be worth looking at. I reaplced the brushes in the motor with new ones about 3 months ago, so it could be 'dusty' in there. That said, it trips even when the control knob is set to somethign that doesn't immediately run the motor. Classic case of trying to think what else has changed, isn't it. There are some recenlty fitted under-cupboard/over-worktop lights. They seemed decent fittings when I bought them, but after running for a few hours, the 20W Halogen G4 bulbs caused some of the plastic to melt. Nice huh! I've replaced them with 1.7W LED lamps, so they will run cooler. But that was done 2 days ago, so maybe a culprit. (Though they were all switched off when the trip happened. It looked very much like the washer tripping it, but there are some good points here about why the washer might be just taking it over the edge). Thanks to all - I will report back in the morning. Cheers |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#18
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#19
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 23:36:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
wrote : The suggestion re carbon in the motor could well be worth looking at. I reaplced the brushes in the motor with new ones about 3 months ago, so it could be 'dusty' in there. That said, it trips even when the control knob is set to somethign that doesn't immediately run the motor. Be aware that a neutral to earth leakage can also cause a trip, not just a live to earth leakage - many people forget this. So even an item turned off/ live disconnected can still cause an RCD to trip if it is plugged in, yet turned off. Doesn't really apply to the OP. Unless there is a magic earth/neutral connection when unplugged. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#20
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#21
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On 13 Feb 2019 01:33:14 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 23:36:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote: wrote : The suggestion re carbon in the motor could well be worth looking at. I reaplced the brushes in the motor with new ones about 3 months ago, so it could be 'dusty' in there. That said, it trips even when the control knob is set to somethign that doesn't immediately run the motor. Be aware that a neutral to earth leakage can also cause a trip, not just a live to earth leakage - many people forget this. So even an item turned off/ live disconnected can still cause an RCD to trip if it is plugged in, yet turned off. Doesn't really apply to the OP. Unless there is a magic earth/neutral connection when unplugged. But how would that apply to: "Out of the blue, my faithful old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips." The WM *must* be playing a part, even if it isn't the only player? And can we assume this hasn't always been the case and may have some connection with the OP recently changing the brushes (and therefore the previous brushes would be spread inside the motor and surroundings)? Cheers, T i m |
#22
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
"T i m" wrote in message ... On 13 Feb 2019 01:33:14 GMT, Bob Eager wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 23:36:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote: wrote : The suggestion re carbon in the motor could well be worth looking at. I reaplced the brushes in the motor with new ones about 3 months ago, so it could be 'dusty' in there. That said, it trips even when the control knob is set to somethign that doesn't immediately run the motor. Be aware that a neutral to earth leakage can also cause a trip, not just a live to earth leakage - many people forget this. So even an item turned off/ live disconnected can still cause an RCD to trip if it is plugged in, yet turned off. Doesn't really apply to the OP. Unless there is a magic earth/neutral connection when unplugged. But how would that apply to: "Out of the blue, my faithful old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips." Some other appliance or the wiring has a significant leakage so that it only needs the hoover to add a bit more to see the RCD trip, or the RCD is flaky. The WM *must* be playing a part, even if it isn't the only player? Yes, but that's clearly not the fundamental problem given that it does still trip a bit with the wm unplugged. And can we assume this hasn't always been the case Yes. and may have some connection with the OP recently changing the brushes Doesn't explain why it still trips at times with the washer unplugged. (and therefore the previous brushes would be spread inside the motor and surroundings)? Doesn't explain why it still trips at times with the washer unplugged. |
#23
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Bob Eager used his keyboard to write :
Doesn't really apply to the OP. Unless there is a magic earth/neutral connection when unplugged. I did spot that, but worth pointing out anyway as it causes so much regular confusion. |
#24
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote: wrote : The suggestion re carbon in the motor could well be worth looking at. I reaplced the brushes in the motor with new ones about 3 months ago, so it could be 'dusty' in there. That said, it trips even when the control knob is set to somethign that doesn't immediately run the motor. Be aware that a neutral to earth leakage can also cause a trip, not just a live to earth leakage - many people forget this. So even an item turned off/ live disconnected can still cause an RCD to trip if it is plugged in, yet turned off. but very rarely if it's unplugged -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
#25
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:19:03 +0000, T i m wrote:
On 13 Feb 2019 01:33:14 GMT, Bob Eager wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 23:36:41 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote: wrote : The suggestion re carbon in the motor could well be worth looking at. I reaplced the brushes in the motor with new ones about 3 months ago, so it could be 'dusty' in there. That said, it trips even when the control knob is set to somethign that doesn't immediately run the motor. Be aware that a neutral to earth leakage can also cause a trip, not just a live to earth leakage - many people forget this. So even an item turned off/ live disconnected can still cause an RCD to trip if it is plugged in, yet turned off. Doesn't really apply to the OP. Unless there is a magic earth/neutral connection when unplugged. But how would that apply to: "Out of the blue, my faithful old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. After reset, it'll stay untripped when the machine is powered on at the socket, but as soon as I turn the control to anything other than 'off' the RCD trips." Well, he also said: "The strange thing is that I've left the washing machine unplugged and yet the RCD still tripped a couple more times" The WM *must* be playing a part, even if it isn't the only player? I think so too! There is something very marginal, and the WM may have a minor leak (e.g. heating element). -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#26
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On 13/02/2019 21:49, Bob Eager wrote:
The WM*must* be playing a part, even if it isn't the only player? I think so too! There is something very marginal, and the WM may have a minor leak (e.g. heating element). almost any load that puts a momentary pulse on the mains will add to leakage current via RFI caps that are effectively between live and earth. If you have a neutral/earth short the trip will be acting more like a current trip anyway. Anything wiill tip it over the edge. -- €œPeople believe certain stories because everyone important tells them, and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them. Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, ones agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of ones suitability to be taken seriously.€ Paul Krugman |
#27
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#28
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Update:
Well, this is proving an odd one! I have had no more RCD trips whilst the washing machine is unplugged, so maybe just coincidence before that the cct tripped without it plugged in. I took the advice to remove the motor and blow out any carbon dust. Actually, there wasn't really any dust there and all looked in good order with the brushes. I plugged the WM back in, with the motor disconnected and there was no RCD trip. I then tried it with the newly cleaned motor reconnected and still no trip RCD. Hooray! Except that was a little premature. I ran the machine with the back off and all tickety-boo. But when I pushed it back under the worktop and put some washing in, it ran for only a few minutes before tripping the RCD. Drats! So this time, a full test with a different cct/RCD and still it trips the RCD, so I think that rules out the RCD. I've dismantled the whole front and got the control panel off. Checked the PCB over and no sign of burning or anything like that. When it's all connected, I got these strange resistance readings:- Switched off gives:- E-N = 500KOhms (all approx) E-L = 700 KOhms Switched on gives:- E-L = 800 KOhms E-N = 980 KOhms Switch back off gives (strange this):- E-L = 1.5 MOhms E-N = 1.5 MOhms Testing across the mains filter that is at the back of the machine, immediately connected to the incoming cable, gives:- E-L = 330 M Ohms E-N = short (0-ish Ohms) If I disconnect the front control panel then plugging in the WM doesn't trip the RCD. But if I reconnect everything back up, then it trips immediately. I'm afraid I don't know enough about those filter things, but is that E-N short correct? Could it be the filter that's duff? The control panel has a big sealed switch for the main control know, so I've no idea what the contacts are like inside. Moreover, I don't know if it's possible to buy another panel (economically at least) or if it's just time for a new washing machine. Thanks again gents for all your expertise. Hoping someone might know a next step to try. |
#29
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
wrote:
Update: Well, this is proving an odd one! I have had no more RCD trips whilst the washing machine is unplugged, so maybe just coincidence before that the cct tripped without it plugged in. I took the advice to remove the motor and blow out any carbon dust. Actually, there wasn't really any dust there and all looked in good order with the brushes. I plugged the WM back in, with the motor disconnected and there was no RCD trip. I then tried it with the newly cleaned motor reconnected and still no trip RCD. Hooray! Except that was a little premature. I ran the machine with the back off and all tickety-boo. But when I pushed it back under the worktop and put some washing in, it ran for only a few minutes before tripping the RCD. Drats! So this time, a full test with a different cct/RCD and still it trips the RCD, so I think that rules out the RCD. I've dismantled the whole front and got the control panel off. Checked the PCB over and no sign of burning or anything like that. When it's all connected, I got these strange resistance readings:- Switched off gives:- E-N = 500KOhms (all approx) E-L = 700 KOhms Switched on gives:- E-L = 800 KOhms E-N = 980 KOhms Switch back off gives (strange this):- E-L = 1.5 MOhms E-N = 1.5 MOhms Testing across the mains filter that is at the back of the machine, immediately connected to the incoming cable, gives:- E-L = 330 M Ohms E-N = short (0-ish Ohms) If I disconnect the front control panel then plugging in the WM doesn't trip the RCD. But if I reconnect everything back up, then it trips immediately. I'm afraid I don't know enough about those filter things, but is that E-N short correct? Could it be the filter that's duff? The control panel has a big sealed switch for the main control know, so I've no idea what the contacts are like inside. Moreover, I don't know if it's possible to buy another panel (economically at least) or if it's just time for a new washing machine. Thanks again gents for all your expertise. Hoping someone might know a next step to try. I am assuming these are all readings taken with the machine unplugged and with a low voltage multimeter rather than a high voltage insulation tester, and taken across the mains input, may as well be at the plug pins The first three sets are fairly consistent, and show significant leakage, though only in the sense that the leakage is likely to be much higher when hot and at 240V. It might just be the electronics showing a slight leakage to earth and of no significance though. The fourth readings at the mains filter are not consistent and should not be different from the others as the mains lead has negligible resistance for this purpose. Either there is an intermittent earth to neutral short circuit here or you made a mistake. Most likely the latter, as E-N short would probably trip the RCD regardless of the machine being on or the front panel being connected. So I shall assume the fourth set are wrong. By all means repeat them, as an E-N fault would be highly significant. But would not explain the control panel connection being relevant. And would be evident in the first three sets of readings. Your observation with the control panel may mean the latter is at fault or may mean the control panel wiring completes some connections, especially of neutrals, in other parts of the machine. So not much further forward. If you can isolate both ends of the heater element then check leakage from either end to earth. If there is any, this is probably the cause of the fault. If you can temporarily disconnect the heater and tape the connectors to it safely enough to turn the machine on with the control panel connected this would establsh whether the element is at fault. This could be repeated with other parts, disconnecting both live and neutral, and if none prevent the fault then it probably is in the control panel. The only way to test the innards of the control panel is by standard electronic fault finding methods. |
#30
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Testing across the mains filter that is at the back of the machine, immediately connected to the incoming cable, gives:- E-L = 330 M Ohms E-N = short (0-ish Ohms) That shouldn't be like that Earth to Neutral short if the machine is disconnected from the mains unplugged.. Try that again and report back with the machine unplugged. If there is an E to N short than these the cause of the problem its one of those barsteward leaks that won't trigger till you get some current flowing. The usual cause of tripping is a Live to earth short in the water heating element had this more than the once!.. But this filter, can you pull all the leads of it then run those ohms checks again, make a careful note of which wire goes where or take a pic of it!. If I disconnect the front control panel then plugging in the WM doesn't trip the RCD. But if I reconnect everything back up, then it trips immediately. I'm afraid I don't know enough about those filter things, but is that E-N short correct? Could it be the filter that's duff? The control panel has a big sealed switch for the main control know, so I've no idea what the contacts are like inside. Moreover, I don't know if it's possible to buy another panel (economically at least) or if it's just time for a new washing machine. Thanks again gents for all your expertise. Hoping someone might know a next step to try. -- Tony Sayer |
#31
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
|
#32
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Thanks again for your steer.
I'm with you, Roger, that I think I will have mis-measured. Yes, I was using a low voltage AVO multimeter. I have a mains tester and even an insulation tester but would have to read up how to use them. (I qualified as 16th Edition, years ago, but not made use of this stuff in a long time. What is it they say about the brain - if you don't use it, you lose it!) If the heater element is most likely to be at fault, I can remove that (after draining down - not easy!) then test that. I expect they are not too expensive to replace, so worth a try. My alternative is a new washer, which must be circa £350. This one has done about 8 years, so not bad. But I prefer to look after and repair stuff if I can. The modern ones are all so complicated, with LCD displays for goodness sake. It's a washer! |
#33
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Sun, 17 Feb 2019 04:14:52 -0800 (PST), Kal Ico
wrote: Thanks again for your steer. I'm with you, Roger, that I think I will have mis-measured. Yes, I was using a low voltage AVO multimeter. I have a mains tester and even an insulation tester but would have to read up how to use them. (I qualified as 16th Edition, years ago, but not made use of this stuff in a long time. What is it they say about the brain - if you don't use it, you lose it!) If you have to read up on how to use an insulation tester, you don't really have the knowledge needed to diagnose the problem. 16th edition is meaningless. Anyone can pass the regs exam, you do not have to have had even a miniscule amount of training or experience to sit and pass the wiring regs test. Unless you have training or experience, and your request for help on a very simple fault suggests you haven't, get someone to look at it that does know where to start. On the plus point most of the "advice" doesn't seem that bad. 'Pity to have the equipment to diagnose the problem in minutes, yet not have the solution. For the solution you have to apply logic. Electrical diagnosis comes into it, but you need a "system". If you dig out the instructions for the Megger and have confidence using it, you are well on your way to success. I would still ask an electrically qualified aquaintance though :-) AB |
#34
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On 17/02/2019 12:14, Kal Ico wrote:
Thanks again for your steer. I'm with you, Roger, that I think I will have mis-measured. Yes, I was using a low voltage AVO multimeter. I have a mains tester and even an insulation tester but would have to read up how to use them. (I qualified as 16th Edition, years ago, but not made use of this stuff in a long time. What is it they say about the brain - if you don't use it, you lose it!) If the heater element is most likely to be at fault, I can remove that (after draining down - not easy!) then test that. I expect they are not too expensive to replace, so worth a try. My alternative is a new washer, which must be circa £350. This one has done about 8 years, so not bad. But I prefer to look after and repair stuff if I can. The modern ones are all so complicated, with LCD displays for goodness sake. It's a washer! If you are gettinmg trips with the washing machine unplugged IT IS NOT THE WASHING MACHINE -- All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is fully understood. |
#35
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On 17/02/2019 18:48:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/02/2019 12:14, Kal Ico wrote: Thanks again for your steer. I'm with you, Roger, that I think I will have mis-measured.Â* Yes, I was using a low voltage AVO multimeter.Â* I have a mains tester and even an insulation tester but would have to read up how to use them. (I qualified as 16th Edition, years ago, but not made use of this stuff in a long time.Â* What is it they say about the brain - if you don't use it, you lose it!) If the heater element is most likely to be at fault, I can remove that (after draining down - not easy!)Â* then test that.Â* I expect they are not too expensive to replace, so worth a try. My alternative is a new washer, which must be circa £350.Â* This one has done about 8 years, so not bad.Â* But I prefer to look after and repair stuff if I can.Â* The modern ones are all so complicated, with LCD displays for goodness sake.Â* It's a washer! If you are gettinmg trips with the washing machine unplugged IT IS NOT THE WASHING MACHINE Clearly the OP wants a new washing machine. Now they'll have to find another excuse to buy one. |
#36
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... On 17/02/2019 12:14, Kal Ico wrote: Thanks again for your steer. I'm with you, Roger, that I think I will have mis-measured. Yes, I was using a low voltage AVO multimeter. I have a mains tester and even an insulation tester but would have to read up how to use them. (I qualified as 16th Edition, years ago, but not made use of this stuff in a long time. What is it they say about the brain - if you don't use it, you lose it!) If the heater element is most likely to be at fault, I can remove that (after draining down - not easy!) then test that. I expect they are not too expensive to replace, so worth a try. My alternative is a new washer, which must be circa £350. This one has done about 8 years, so not bad. But I prefer to look after and repair stuff if I can. The modern ones are all so complicated, with LCD displays for goodness sake. It's a washer! If you are gettinmg trips with the washing machine unplugged IT IS NOT THE WASHING MACHINE But given that he does get trips with the washing machine plugged in to a different circuit with a different RCD, it does appear that the washing machine does have a fault and that there is also a separate fault with the original circuit or whats plugged into it. |
#37
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:09:28 +1100, 2987fr, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote: If you are gettinmg trips with the washing machine unplugged IT IS NOT THE WASHING MACHINE But I auto-contradicting mode again, senile idiot? LOL -- Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot: "Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)" MID: |
#38
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 12:14:54 UTC, Kal Ico wrote:
Thanks again for your steer. I'm with you, Roger, that I think I will have mis-measured. Yes, I was using a low voltage AVO multimeter. I have a mains tester and even an insulation tester but would have to read up how to use them. (I qualified as 16th Edition, years ago, but not made use of this stuff in a long time. What is it they say about the brain - if you don't use it, you lose it!) If the heater element is most likely to be at fault, I can remove that (after draining down - not easy!) then test that. I expect they are not too expensive to replace, so worth a try. My alternative is a new washer, which must be circa £350. This one has done about 8 years, so not bad. But I prefer to look after and repair stuff if I can. The modern ones are all so complicated, with LCD displays for goodness sake. It's a washer! Mains voltage insulation tester will give a much clearer picture, but it does look like you've got bad insulation in there somewhere. Once you find it it will quite likely be fixable for anything from nothing to £30 or so. Draining is trivial, pull the hose off the standpipe and lay it down in a bowl - water runs out. You can also eliminate the element by disconnecting it at both terminals, see if it runs. That will cause the program to stall in wash mode. NT |
#39
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 3:18:10 PM UTC, Kal Ico wrote:
Out of the blue, my faithfull old Hoover washer tripped the RCD on my consumer unit. Mains tester plugs like this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Winner-Main...7607277&chn=ps have some leakage from live and neutral to earth so can be used to trip RCDs which are almost tripping which could be useful in finding whats going on. But I dont know how many milliamps they leak, anyone know? George |
#40
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Electrical advice: Washing machine tripping RCD
Latest news:
Following the earlier steer that the most likely component to break is the heater element in the washer, I took the connections off that. It then does not trip the RCD and I was able to select the drain programme then the spin programme, without problem. But then the strange bit - when the spin finished I reconnected the heating element and it still didn't trip the RCD. Testing the resistance from each terminal on the heating element to Earth, with the low-voltage meter, it was about half a Meg Ohm on each. Could this be a fault that only shows up when under power and/or heated? Just to be clear, there have been NO further trips of the RCD when the washer is unplugged. Maybe just a coincidence or maybe that ring has high earth leakage anyway. Not sure. |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Washing Machine Motor Tripping Mains RCD | UK diy | |||
Washing Machine Motors - What a Difference From Mom's Old Washing Machine | Metalworking | |||
RCD test button not tripping the RCD. | UK diy | |||
Washing machine motor tripping RCD? | UK diy | |||
washing machine tripping fuse | UK diy |