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Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 21st 09, 11:46 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,541
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

Hi,

Anyone know where to get a trim/bead removing tool for internally glazed
windows (uPVC snap in type).

Having had a very good search on the internet, I can't find such a thing.

I would guess it's going to be something like a bit of metal with a fairly
thin flat L shaped hook on the end of a rod.

Or is there a "proper" name of such a tool?

Ta

Tim

PS

Not totally happy with the fitting today - I'm going to pop the DG units out
and repack them, before I foam in the window...

But, nevertheless, having a trim removal tool handy would be a generally
usefull addition to the toolbox....
Ads
  #2  
Old May 22nd 09, 12:46 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,993
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Hi,

Anyone know where to get a trim/bead removing tool for internally glazed
windows (uPVC snap in type).

Having had a very good search on the internet, I can't find such a thing.

I would guess it's going to be something like a bit of metal with a fairly
thin flat L shaped hook on the end of a rod.

Or is there a "proper" name of such a tool?


I'm not aware of such a tool -- fitters I used just used a
thin bladed scraper, and I've done the same on occasion.
You have to push the unit into the frame to loosen the grip
on the beads. Assuming you have gasket strips on the other
side, you take them out first to give you some movement to
play with. If you have glazing tapes, you aren't going to
get the units off them without destroying the tape, and
leaving a horrible mess to clean off the units and the
frames before refitting with new tape. With the beading,
start removal in the middle of the longer side. When you
have the middle out, you have to bend the first piece to
get it out from the ends. The rest of the pieces then come
out more easily.

Not totally happy with the fitting today - I'm going to pop the DG units out
and repack them, before I foam in the window...


You sit them on plastic spacers so the bottoms are lifted
well clear of the bottom of the frame. This is so water
which inevitably leaks past the weather seal can drain away
from the sealed unit bottom edge, and out through the frame
drains. If the sealed unit ends up sitting in a puddle of
water in the frame, it will not be a sealed unit for long.
You can buy packs of mixed thickness spacers from about 2mm
to 10mm from uPVC suppliers (and probably somewhere like
screwfix, although I haven't actually looked for them there).

If you have a uPVC door, the units and spacers play an
important role in bracing the door against dropping, by
heeling and toeing the bottom corner of the hinge side
against the top corner of the lock side, so the unit is
acting a bit like a diagonal timber you find on a slatted
timber door or gate.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
  #3  
Old May 22nd 09, 01:04 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,541
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Hi,

Anyone know where to get a trim/bead removing tool for internally glazed
windows (uPVC snap in type).

Having had a very good search on the internet, I can't find such a thing.

I would guess it's going to be something like a bit of metal with a
fairly thin flat L shaped hook on the end of a rod.

Or is there a "proper" name of such a tool?


I'm not aware of such a tool -- fitters I used just used a
thin bladed scraper, and I've done the same on occasion.
You have to push the unit into the frame to loosen the grip
on the beads. Assuming you have gasket strips on the other
side, you take them out first to give you some movement to
play with. If you have glazing tapes, you aren't going to
get the units off them without destroying the tape, and
leaving a horrible mess to clean off the units and the
frames before refitting with new tape. With the beading,
start removal in the middle of the longer side. When you
have the middle out, you have to bend the first piece to
get it out from the ends. The rest of the pieces then come
out more easily.


Hi Andrew,

Scraper - that sounds a fair bet. Or possibly a very sharp bolster might do
it. They took a fair et of blows to click them in (about the same as when I
saw the window fitter do our rented house - you'd think the glass would
break, but it doesn't). Unfortunately I saw him frame fix, foam and bang
the beading in, but missed some of the details of using the packers.

I don't have tape - there's an external gasket, which I *don't* think comes
out, though I have a second window to inspect. They appeared to be well
fixed before I started, but they might pull out.

Not totally happy with the fitting today - I'm going to pop the DG units
out and repack them, before I foam in the window...


You sit them on plastic spacers so the bottoms are lifted
well clear of the bottom of the frame. This is so water
which inevitably leaks past the weather seal can drain away
from the sealed unit bottom edge, and out through the frame
drains. If the sealed unit ends up sitting in a puddle of
water in the frame, it will not be a sealed unit for long.
You can buy packs of mixed thickness spacers from about 2mm
to 10mm from uPVC suppliers (and probably somewhere like
screwfix, although I haven't actually looked for them there).


I did get a pack from the glass merchant that sold me the windows. Being in
a hurry to shove the glass in and being, alas, away from the internet at
the time, I omitted to research the details of fitting the panels. Spent
most of the time preparing for how to fit the frames, which itself went
well, though I now know I could do with some frame spacers too, before I
foam it in, to get a tighter fit on the screws without bending the frames
(window is only loosely in right now, not done up that tight).

Having seen your message and also finding some fitting instructions
elsewhere, I realise now that the shop rather short changed me on bridge
packers (I got two for 4 DG panels!). I reckon I need 16...

Could do with some more glazing packers to go with these (got about 4 times
4 sizes)

At the moment the glass is in, centred and held by friction. Of course,
correct use of packers would have made fitting the DG unit somewhat easier.
Never mind, live and learn. The windows are small and it's quite feasible
to diassemble and repack.

I'll try the shop first for more packers, otherwise ebay seems the best
bet - Screwfix don't do them and many places seel them by the 1000.

If you have a uPVC door, the units and spacers play an
important role in bracing the door against dropping, by
heeling and toeing the bottom corner of the hinge side
against the top corner of the lock side, so the unit is
acting a bit like a diagonal timber you find on a slatted
timber door or gate.


That would explain why I was finding the casement to be a bit wibbly. Time
to do it again...



Cheers

Tim
  #4  
Old May 22nd 09, 03:02 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,043
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

You sit them on plastic spacers so the bottoms are lifted
well clear of the bottom of the frame. This is so water
which inevitably leaks past the weather seal can drain away
from the sealed unit bottom edge, and out through the frame
drains. If the sealed unit ends up sitting in a puddle of
water in the frame, it will not be a sealed unit for long.
You can buy packs of mixed thickness spacers from about 2mm
to 10mm from uPVC suppliers (and probably somewhere like
screwfix, although I haven't actually looked for them there).


For bigger frames it is also worth packing the units such that they tend
to resist the desire of the frame to sag at the free edge - i.e using
the spacers to add diagonal rigidity to the frame.

If you have a uPVC door, the units and spacers play an
important role in bracing the door against dropping, by
heeling and toeing the bottom corner of the hinge side
against the top corner of the lock side, so the unit is
acting a bit like a diagonal timber you find on a slatted
timber door or gate.


I should have read that bit before typing the above... ok just ignore me
- too tired!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #5  
Old May 22nd 09, 09:06 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,541
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

Andrew Gabriel coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Tim S writes:
Hi,

Anyone know where to get a trim/bead removing tool for internally glazed
windows (uPVC snap in type).

Having had a very good search on the internet, I can't find such a thing.

I would guess it's going to be something like a bit of metal with a
fairly thin flat L shaped hook on the end of a rod.

Or is there a "proper" name of such a tool?


I'm not aware of such a tool -- fitters I used just used a
thin bladed scraper, and I've done the same on occasion.
You have to push the unit into the frame to loosen the grip
on the beads. Assuming you have gasket strips on the other
side, you take them out first to give you some movement to
play with. If you have glazing tapes, you aren't going to
get the units off them without destroying the tape, and
leaving a horrible mess to clean off the units and the
frames before refitting with new tape. With the beading,
start removal in the middle of the longer side. When you
have the middle out, you have to bend the first piece to
get it out from the ends. The rest of the pieces then come
out more easily.


Ah, look:

http://www.dgsupplyline.co.uk/result...rang e_id=305

Doesn't it look just like a paint scraper!

Came across that website - with much joy, as later I need to reglaze some
ali units and the rubber gasket is shagged. Looks like I might be able to
match it to one of their stock

Found this too, which is interesting:

http://www.howtomendit.com/answers.php?id=228631

But I think I see the gist of this.

It would probably be best to unscrew the lights (both are opening) and do
this on a bench, at least the first time! Glad I started with tiny weeny
windows Hate to do this with 1m2 of glass!

Cheers

Tim


  #6  
Old May 22nd 09, 09:33 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,294
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:06:23 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Ah, look:

http://www.dgsupplyline.co.uk/result..._category_id=9
0&range_id=305

Doesn't it look just like a paint scraper!


That's basicaly what it is. But with a few of differences the blade needs
to be quite stiff, most paint/paper scrapers are too flexible. It needs to
be fairly broad, say around 3" so the force to ping the seal is applied of
a reasonable area and won't cause the scraper to dig into the soft
plastic. The edge needs to be fine but not sharp to get into the tiny gap
without cutting the plastic if slightly misaligned.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #7  
Old May 22nd 09, 10:28 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 80
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:06:23 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Ah, look:

http://www.dgsupplyline.co.uk/result..._category_id=9
0&range_id=305

Doesn't it look just like a paint scraper!


That's basicaly what it is. But with a few of differences the blade needs
to be quite stiff, most paint/paper scrapers are too flexible. It needs to
be fairly broad, say around 3" so the force to ping the seal is applied of
a reasonable area and won't cause the scraper to dig into the soft
plastic. The edge needs to be fine but not sharp to get into the tiny gap
without cutting the plastic if slightly misaligned.

You forgot the main difference, the price needs to be 23, instead of 99p
:-)

  #8  
Old May 22nd 09, 06:50 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,541
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

Dave Liquorice coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:06:23 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Ah, look:

http://www.dgsupplyline.co.uk/result..._category_id=9
0&range_id=305

Doesn't it look just like a paint scraper!


That's basicaly what it is. But with a few of differences the blade needs
to be quite stiff, most paint/paper scrapers are too flexible. It needs to
be fairly broad, say around 3" so the force to ping the seal is applied of
a reasonable area and won't cause the scraper to dig into the soft
plastic. The edge needs to be fine but not sharp to get into the tiny gap
without cutting the plastic if slightly misaligned.


OK that makes sense.

I do have a fairly stiff scraper (might not be officially a scraper, but
looks like one) - I'll try that first.

Cheers

Tim
  #9  
Old May 25th 09, 09:14 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Double glazing - internal "snap-in" removal

On 22 May, 18:50, Tim S wrote:
Dave Liquorice coughed up some electrons that declared:



On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:06:23 +0100, Tim S wrote:


Ah, look:


http://www.dgsupplyline.co.uk/result...3&sub_category...
0&range_id=305


Doesn't it look just like a paint scraper!


That's basicaly what it is. But with a few of differences the blade needs
to be quite stiff, most paint/paper scrapers are too flexible. It needs to
be fairly broad, say around 3" so the force to ping the seal is applied of
a reasonable area and won't cause the scraper to dig into the soft
plastic. The edge needs to be fine but not sharp to get into the tiny gap
without cutting the plastic if slightly misaligned.


OK that makes sense.

I do have a fairly stiff scraper (might not be officially a scraper, but
looks like one) - I'll try that first.

Cheers

Tim


I have take out double glazing beads using two fairly used scrapers.
The first one is tapped into the bead to window frame joint
(perpendicular to window). Tap the second one along side the first.
Then use a screw driver between the two scrapers to force them apart
and start to remove the bead. Once the bead starts to move it is then
easy to remove completely. Doing it this way does not damage the
beading. The secret is to use well worn scrapers say about 50mm wide.
If you haven't got a worn scraper file down a scraper to give it a
tapered leading edge.
Regards
 




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