In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 00:17:02 GMT, Dorothy and Richard Shelson
wrote:
Sorry to come in from left field but I need to ask. What IS a "posi
screw"?

Looks enough like a Phillips to confuse the unwary, but doesn't fit
a Phillips bit very well at all. Works excellent with the right
bits, though.

We have in Canada a Robertson screw which I am told does not
exist in the US.

We call that "square drive screws" here, the only people I've ever
seen call it the Robertson are Canadians (he was Canadian, I'd guess).

Robertson _invented_ em. Robertson is a *brand* name. Robertson gets
_really_ upset if somebody refers to "Robertson Screws" that are not
*manufactured* by Robertson. Robertson _is_ a Canadian Company.

Hence 'similar' screws by other manufacturers are called "something else".


You can get genuine Robertsons in the U.S., if you look in the right
places, but they are significantly more expensive than "something else".

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Unisaw A100 wrote:

Robatoy wrote:
The guy who invented the slotted screw should be forced to listen to
Celine Dion.

And Gordon Lightfoot.

And Anne Murray.

In one continuous sitting.

Cher.

Or be doomed to an eternity of peeling off those ^$%# INDIVIDUAL stickers
that now come on every tomato, bell pepper and anything that looks like a
vegetable in the supermarket.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:53:57 -0800, Larry Blanchard wrote:
In article ,
says...
Dave "I'll never tape and mud drywall again. And this time I mean it." Hinz

Another subject we agree on :-).

Dang. This is getting scary. But you know, when there are people good
at it, willing to work for...reasonable terms... (as in, I'll clean all
the viruses and spyware off your Windows box if you tape and mud this
room for me terms), it's just not gonna be me doing it. 'hate' is too
gentle of a word.

Dave

On 5 Mar 2005 03:59:03 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:53:57 -0800, Larry Blanchard wrote:
In article ,
says...
Dave "I'll never tape and mud drywall again. And this time I mean it." Hinz

Another subject we agree on :-).

Dang. This is getting scary. But you know, when there are people good
at it, willing to work for...reasonable terms... (as in, I'll clean all
the viruses and spyware off your Windows box if you tape and mud this
room for me terms), it's just not gonna be me doing it. 'hate' is too
gentle of a word.

Done a lot of it. I find it one of the most enjoyable of all
construction phases. Different strokes, huh?

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:06:33 -0500, Buck Frobisher
wrote:

You can blame Henry Ford's greed and P. L. Robertson's stubbornness if
you
regret the non-availability in the U.S. even today.

Of Ford's greed, there's little doubt, but I've been buying Robertson
hardware for more than a decade in normal retail hardware outlets. The
non-availability of which you speak doesn't exist.

If you mean to say that Robertson screws and drivers became available 10
years ago, then mazel tov! I didn't know that had happened. I suppose that
70 years is enough time for it to catch on.

But, judging by what I have heard in the past, and some of the comments here
regarding "Canadian screws" (remember the crowbar story earlier in this
thread?) I would say that, in general, Robertson is almost completely
unknown in the US.

Am I wrong, folks?

--
"Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs."

regards,

Frank Johansen
Aurora, Ontario

Thanks Duane. That helps.

Richard

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Dorothy and Richard Shelson wrote:

Sorry to come in from left field but I need to ask. What IS a "posi
screw"? We have in Canada a Robertson screw which I am told does not
exist in the US. I think it is far superior to the Phillips. Is that
what you are referring to?


Pozidrive is another variation of a cross-slot head somewhat similar to
a Phillips..

A Robertson certainly can be obtained in the US altho the "square-head"
moniker is more common. There can be a slight difference in cam angle
of various variations.

Hi Buck:

While I didn't catch the thread you refer to earlier I have been told
that such screws are so infrequent in the US that rather than find a
screwdriver that will work with them people just use a pry bar to break
boxes from Canada apart. That may be Urban Legend but I too am curious.

Richard

Buck Frobisher wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:06:33 -0500, Buck Frobisher
wrote:

You can blame Henry Ford's greed and P. L. Robertson's stubbornness if
you
regret the non-availability in the U.S. even today.

Of Ford's greed, there's little doubt, but I've been buying Robertson
hardware for more than a decade in normal retail hardware outlets. The
non-availability of which you speak doesn't exist.


If you mean to say that Robertson screws and drivers became available 10
years ago, then mazel tov! I didn't know that had happened. I suppose that
70 years is enough time for it to catch on.

But, judging by what I have heard in the past, and some of the comments here
regarding "Canadian screws" (remember the crowbar story earlier in this
thread?) I would say that, in general, Robertson is almost completely
unknown in the US.

Am I wrong, folks?

Swingman wrote:

Or be doomed to an eternity of peeling off those ^$%# INDIVIDUAL stickers
that now come on every tomato, bell pepper and anything that looks like a
vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Dave Hinz wrote:

Wow. If you're screwing up Torx screws, you might be using
one size too small of a bit. It'll fit, but it'll strip much
easier. I don't think you _can_ strip a Torx screw with the right
size bit.

I did say "sometimes." The little pointy star shaped hole will turn into a
useless round hole if the head is corroded enough. Think old car
applications. I've mostly seen Torx screws on cars.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Silvan" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:

Or be doomed to an eternity of peeling off those ^$%# INDIVIDUAL
stickers
that now come on every tomato, bell pepper and anything that looks like
a
vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

Well, you can leave them on, but they're real tough to floss off your shiny
brites. (not a bad idea, though ... just make them edible and fortified with
vitamins).

Besides, like many other "unnecessary complications" in a modern life
dictated by corporate whims, they are there for the convenience of the
corporation, not the customer.

Ever try to get a modern, small hand tool out of one of those molded, 10 ga
plastic, armored "packages" that someone, somewhere, thinks is necessary ...
and without another sharp, previously purchased hand tool?

No doubt about it, there is an organized, shadowy effort to aggravate, with
seemingly inconsequential roadblocks and potholes, that add up to an
increase in daily frustration.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Like adding a simple electric circuit to the shop. You need to 3-4 diff.
size square drive bits. Why cant they make them the same size?
I like square drive, but changing bits to do a simple chore drives me crazy.
I just use the phillps when doing electric.


"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Dave Hinz wrote:

Wow. If you're screwing up Torx screws, you might be using
one size too small of a bit. It'll fit, but it'll strip much
easier. I don't think you _can_ strip a Torx screw with the right
size bit.

I did say "sometimes." The little pointy star shaped hole will turn into
a
useless round hole if the head is corroded enough. Think old car
applications. I've mostly seen Torx screws on cars.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

I read that the USA screws are different design, tapered square recess
I think, and are identified as "square" drive. Bondhus makes a ball
end screwdriver for each of the four sizes color coded handles for
size identification. Similar to the ball end allen drivers they make.
Drive either 15° or 25° of axis, handy in tight quarters.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:06:57 -0000,
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 00:17:02 GMT, Dorothy and Richard Shelson
wrote:
Sorry to come in from left field but I need to ask. What IS a "posi
screw"?

Looks enough like a Phillips to confuse the unwary, but doesn't fit
a Phillips bit very well at all. Works excellent with the right
bits, though.

We have in Canada a Robertson screw which I am told does not
exist in the US.

We call that "square drive screws" here, the only people I've ever
seen call it the Robertson are Canadians (he was Canadian, I'd guess).

Robertson _invented_ em. Robertson is a *brand* name. Robertson gets
_really_ upset if somebody refers to "Robertson Screws" that are not
*manufactured* by Robertson. Robertson _is_ a Canadian Company.

Hence 'similar' screws by other manufacturers are called "something else".


You can get genuine Robertsons in the U.S., if you look in the right
places, but they are significantly more expensive than "something else".

In article ,
Silvan wrote:
Swingman wrote:

Or be doomed to an eternity of peeling off those ^$%# INDIVIDUAL stickers
that now come on every tomato, bell pepper and anything that looks like a
vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

According to the State of California, those _labels_ contain ingredients
that are known to cause cancer. Yet, Calif. =REQUIRES= them on edible
products. *sigh*

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Silvan wrote:
Swingman wrote:

Or be doomed to an eternity of peeling off those ^$%# INDIVIDUAL
stickers
that now come on every tomato, bell pepper and anything that looks like
a
vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

According to the State of California, those _labels_ contain ingredients
that are known to cause cancer. Yet, Calif. =REQUIRES= them on edible
products. *sigh*

That's the left coast for you.
Beej
Still working on the big damned chainsaw.

Swingman wrote:

vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

Well, you can leave them on, but they're real tough to floss off your
shiny brites. (not a bad idea, though ... just make them edible and
fortified with vitamins).

Besides, like many other "unnecessary complications" in a modern life
dictated by corporate whims, they are there for the convenience of the
corporation, not the customer.

Well, you can argue both sides of this one. For the convenience of the
corporation, yes, by allowing computerized scanning and whatnot. For the
convenience of the customer too, though, so your cashier doesn't have to
remember 700 PLU numbers, or sit there flipping through a stack of cards
every time you bring some wierd Chinese vegetable to the register. Saves
you, the customer, time. Having a sticker on everything also decreases
your chances of getting charged incorrectly when the cashier doesn't know a
winesap from a McIntosh from a red delicious too, or can't tell the
difference between celery and cilantro, or lettuce and cabbage.

I've been on the cashier side of that. Especially with Asian customers.
Some wad of green. What the hell is this anyway? "It
bongchockfojinshooifong kwa." OK, can you spell that? No? Screw it,
bananas it is.

Ever try to get a modern, small hand tool out of one of those molded, 10
ga plastic, armored "packages" that someone, somewhere, thinks is
necessary ... and without another sharp, previously purchased hand tool?

Yes. The most retarded thing ever. Dad is a tool loser. I bought him a
fold-out molded plastic tray full of tools, and he managed to keep track of
them for years, until the plastic latch broke on the carrier. So this past
December I bought him a new one. I got it at Lowe's. It had quality name
brand (for whatever that's worth, since they were all still Chinese) tools
in it, and had most of the bases covered, on sale for about $60 I think.

Hammer, knife, screwdrivers, wrenches, the whole nine yards. It was covered
in a molded sheet of plastic that was screwed down in about 30 places. A
person buying an item like this, an all-in-one set of gift tools, it's a
safe bet the person on the receiving end doesn't have any tools. This is
the kind of thing you might give your kid when you send him off to college
or something. So WTF was the deal with all the screws that I couldn't get
out without the screwdriver that was trapped inside by the damn screwes?
WTF were they thinking?!

No doubt about it, there is an organized, shadowy effort to aggravate,
with seemingly inconsequential roadblocks and potholes, that add up to an
increase in daily frustration.

Or, sigh, to reduce theft anyway... That's why the new packaging is such a
PITA.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Robert Bonomi wrote:

According to the State of California, those _labels_ contain ingredients
that are known to cause cancer. Yet, Calif. =REQUIRES= them on edible
products. *sigh*

But I'm sure the vegetables are known to the state of California to cause
cancer too, so it's no problem.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Silvan" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:

vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

Well, you can leave them on, but they're real tough to floss off your
shiny brites. (not a bad idea, though ... just make them edible and
fortified with vitamins).

Besides, like many other "unnecessary complications" in a modern life
dictated by corporate whims, they are there for the convenience of the
corporation, not the customer.

Well, you can argue both sides of this one. For the convenience of the
corporation, yes, by allowing computerized scanning and whatnot. For the
convenience of the customer too, though, so your cashier doesn't have to
remember 700 PLU numbers, or sit there flipping through a stack of cards
every time you bring some wierd Chinese vegetable to the register.

OK, by gawd ... let's argue.

Cashiers worthy of the name were once required to know/memorize produce
prices. Now, since the MBA mentality has made it an ultra low wage position,
the register is often smarter than the cashier. I am actually inconvenienced
more often by waiting for a price check from someone in front of me, or by
the need for a "manager" to take some action or other that the cashier can
no longer handle.

Net result ... I spend no less time in check out than in the past.

Saves
you, the customer, time.

Not when I get them home and start to cook ... I lose any time that might
have been saved at check-out getting the damned labels OFF.

Besides, the check-out lines are longer than ever because of reduced
staffing, more than making up for any saved time by puttting labels on each
damn vegetable, the application of same which is built-in to price I must
pay ... thanks again to the corporate, MBA mentality.

Net result ... I was much better, in both time and money, with dumber
vegetables and smarter cashiers!

Having a sticker on everything also decreases
your chances of getting charged incorrectly when the cashier doesn't know
a
winesap from a McIntosh from a red delicious too, or can't tell the
difference between celery and cilantro, or lettuce and cabbage.

As a prudent, price conscious, informed consumer, that's MY job.

I know, I know ... there aren't that many of us left.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

In article ,
Swingman wrote:

"Silvan" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:

vegetable in the supermarket.

You're supposed to peel those off?

Well, you can leave them on, but they're real tough to floss off your
shiny brites. (not a bad idea, though ... just make them edible and
fortified with vitamins).

Besides, like many other "unnecessary complications" in a modern life
dictated by corporate whims, they are there for the convenience of the
corporation, not the customer.

Well, you can argue both sides of this one. For the convenience of the
corporation, yes, by allowing computerized scanning and whatnot. For the
convenience of the customer too, though, so your cashier doesn't have to
remember 700 PLU numbers, or sit there flipping through a stack of cards
every time you bring some wierd Chinese vegetable to the register.

OK, by gawd ... let's argue.

Cashiers worthy of the name were once required to know/memorize produce
prices.

*sigh* At the grocery I grew up shopping at, most of the cashiers had pricing
for the _entire_ inventory memorized. This was, admittedly, a somewhat
'strange' operation -- they didn't advertise (TV, radio, _or_ newspaper); they
rarely had 'sales' (except when they got a 'deal' on special-purchase produce
dairy, or meats), etc. And they carried *lots* of brands -- if they had only
4 brands of some item, that was a 'limited' selection. (I was *really* shocked
when I moved to the 'big city', and found the "big local operations" typically
carried the 'house brand' and *one* other) And this was a local operation,
not a national/regional chain. They hired good people, and paid them well.
*Lots* of the 'line' help made a career of working in their stores. There
was a nearly _two_year_ *waiting* *list*, to get on as a 'bag boy' there.

They were a *long* time putting in computerized bar-code-scanning registers.
And a source of *great* frustration to the people selling same. Cuz when
the salesdroids came calling, they said "Sure, we'll buy your system, *as*
*long*as* it is at least as fast as our current cashiers." They even
let the salesdroid pick the store cashier for the "time trials". It _was_
a 'stacked deck', nonetheless. He got to pick from the prime-shift crew,
only. Who all had at least 10-15 years on the job. Who could run the
register entirely "by touch" with one hand, while shovelling the groceries
past with the other hand. Who _didn't_ need to look at a price-tag on
_anything_, cuz they knew prices on the =entire= inventory. Who *didn't*
even need to turn the item right-side up, or turn it around, to know
what the item was. *AND* who, while doing all this, would greet at least
80% of the customers _by_name_, knowing them well enough to be exchanging
news tidbits / gossip / etc. *while* running the register full-tilt.
It was not uncommon to have _two_ baggers *per*register*, so that bagging
didn't slow down the line. grin

"Insult to injury", when there was a price difference during the trials,
between the proposed computerized system and the 'old fashioned' cashier,
it was *usually* the computer that was wrong.

Lots of cash-register salesmen went away *very* frustrated.

I think it was around _1990_, that they *finally* converted. More because
the quality of help available had declined, than that the scanners had
improved.

In article , Buck Frobisher
wrote:

Frank Johansen
Aurora, Ontario

Frank, I am also in Aurora. Are you the Frank with the antiques
refinishing place on Vata Court?

Gerry

In article , Swingman
wrote:

Ever try to get a modern, small hand tool out of one of those molded, 10 ga
plastic, armored "packages" that someone, somewhere, thinks is necessary ...
and without another sharp, previously purchased hand tool?

The worst for me by far is the same packaging for an SD card for a
digital camera. The SD card is literally the size of a postage stamp
and is enclosed in one of those packages about 12in. by 6in. whose
partially ripped edges can turn into a scary sharp weapon which can
draw blood. I've never seen anything so stupidly packaged. DAMHIKT

Gerry

Those packages are easily dealt with on the scroll saw.

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote in message
...
In article , Swingman
wrote:

Ever try to get a modern, small hand tool out of one of those molded, 10
ga
plastic, armored "packages" that someone, somewhere, thinks is necessary
....
and without another sharp, previously purchased hand tool?

The worst for me by far is the same packaging for an SD card for a
digital camera. The SD card is literally the size of a postage stamp
and is enclosed in one of those packages about 12in. by 6in. whose
partially ripped edges can turn into a scary sharp weapon which can
draw blood. I've never seen anything so stupidly packaged. DAMHIKT

Gerry

"CW" wrote in message
Those packages are easily dealt with on the scroll saw.

Damn! ... there's the justification for getting a bandsaw for the kitchen.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote in message

The worst for me by far is the same packaging for an SD card for a
digital camera. The SD card is literally the size of a postage stamp
and is enclosed in one of those packages about 12in. by 6in. whose
partially ripped edges can turn into a scary sharp weapon which can
draw blood. I've never seen anything so stupidly packaged. DAMHIKT

Jet Printer ink cartridges ... a close second.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote in message

The worst for me by far is the same packaging for an SD card for a
digital camera. The SD card is literally the size of a postage stamp
and is enclosed in one of those packages about 12in. by 6in. whose
partially ripped edges can turn into a scary sharp weapon which can
draw blood. I've never seen anything so stupidly packaged. DAMHIKT

Theft prevention. Harder to slip into a pocket or purse. Try putting the
cards in a small packet or very easy open large package, hang them on a
hook, and see how long they last.


Jet Printer ink cartridges ... a close second.


HP has improved considerably over the old packages. Now it only takes 15
minutes and two tools to open them.

Swingman wrote:

OK, by gawd ... let's argue.

Net result ... I was much better, in both time and money, with dumber
vegetables and smarter cashiers!

OK, you win.

winesap from a McIntosh from a red delicious too, or can't tell the
difference between celery and cilantro, or lettuce and cabbage.

As a prudent, price conscious, informed consumer, that's MY job.

I know, I know ... there aren't that many of us left.

Seriously, the problem is that you customers know what you're buying, but
those of you who are buying the weird stuff don't speak English very well.
When I worked at a certain gigantic retailer, we had a staggering array of
ethnic foods in the produce department, and I had no clue what most of that
stuff was. When the customers told me what it was, it wasn't terribly
helpful trying to figure out what that was on the little list.

I'm glad those days are behind me. Worst job on earth. I'd rather wade
waist deep in pig ****.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:14:43 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:

On 5 Mar 2005 03:59:03 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Dang. This is getting scary. But you know, when there are people good
at it, willing to work for...reasonable terms... (as in, I'll clean all
the viruses and spyware off your Windows box if you tape and mud this
room for me terms), it's just not gonna be me doing it. 'hate' is too
gentle of a word.

Done a lot of it. I find it one of the most enjoyable of all
construction phases. Different strokes, huh?

You ARE weird!

--
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 23:09:13 +0000, "Luigi Zanasi"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:14:43 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:

On 5 Mar 2005 03:59:03 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Dang. This is getting scary. But you know, when there are people good
at it, willing to work for...reasonable terms... (as in, I'll clean all
the viruses and spyware off your Windows box if you tape and mud this
room for me terms), it's just not gonna be me doing it. 'hate' is too
gentle of a word.

Done a lot of it. I find it one of the most enjoyable of all
construction phases. Different strokes, huh?

You ARE weird!

I always loved going into a house to start a drywall job. You would
look around and it would be all studs with wiring and plumbing
showing. In just a couple of days it would go to being rooms, with
real walls. Then the taping would take it to the next level, where the
walls looked *finished*. There is an intense satisfaction in it for
me. Much like getting a good finish on a woodworking project. You can
walk out feeling like you've actually made something.

Oh, incidentally, many people have accused me of being weird, but not
usually in that context.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "G.E.R.R.Y."
wrote:

I've never seen anything so stupidly packaged. DAMHIKT

Place an order with Dallas Semiconductor.

Three chips. Each in its own 12" long FedEx package across the pond.