"Silvan" wrote in message
...

It really is amazing. The one is new, clean, in perfect working order,
and
it even has a groovy easy-adjust frog. The old one is pitted, covered
with
hard brown rust wherever it doesn't have to rub on anything, and just
generally looks pretty nasty sitting side by side with its newer cousin.
When both of them were tuned to be smoothers, I kept picking up the old
one
time and again. I swear it takes better shavings even though it has the
original (or an original vintage) iron with some light pitting on the
back.
I tweaked the new one into making some damn whispy shavings, and I thought
I had a great plane, but then I gave that junky looking nonagenerian a
push, and I figured out why everybody says the new English Stanley stuff
sucks.


Isn't it something the way these things work on us. There's absolutely
nothing quantifiable in what you posted Mike. It's all subjective. But...
it's the way things go. I have a Remington 870 that I use just for deer
hunting. As hunting goes, I much prefer bow hunting than gun hunting, but
when shotgun and rifle season comes around I find myself anxious for it, and
loving it when I head out into the woods with that 870. I just love the
feel of that gun in my hands. Nothing quantifiable about it. The 870
stands on its own as a first rate firearm, but I'm talking about a love
affair that goes way beyond the merits of a shotgun. Where I hunt one could
make a good case for having a 30-06 in the gun cabinet, but I just use that
870. It's all about the way it feels in my hands. Well, that and the
number of deer that have met their fate in front of that gun. My other guns
are all nothing more than utilitarian devices to me. I could sell any one
of them and never really miss them. There is indeed a certain irrational
aspect to this stuff.
--

-Mike-

That would be a good point. I haven't hit the point where the plastic
bothers me, but I can see where it could be a problem.
-Mike-


Personaly, I despise plastic.

(a rediculous interjection, I know)

Alex

"AAvK" wrote in message

Personaly, I despise plastic.

(a rediculous interjection, I know)

Alex

I've made a good living from it for the past 35 years. It has improved your
life even if you won't admit it.

What plane are you thinking of getting? IMHO the most useful is a low
angle block plane, followed by a shoulder plane, a scraper plane, and a
#3/
#4 smoother and a #5 jack.

I was gonna get a #4, then I was gonna get a standard block plane. That was
my original plan. But based on the amount of reading I've been doing, the
low-angle/shoulder planes makes sense to buy first. But I will not have a
joiner or a planer, so I was going to use hand planes to smooth all of my
rough sawn wood. That's why the #4 was first on the list.

"Mike H." wrote in
:


What plane are you thinking of getting? IMHO the most useful is a
low angle block plane, followed by a shoulder plane, a scraper plane,
and a
#3/
#4 smoother and a #5 jack.

I was gonna get a #4, then I was gonna get a standard block plane.
That was my original plan. But based on the amount of reading I've
been doing, the low-angle/shoulder planes makes sense to buy first.
But I will not have a joiner or a planer, so I was going to use hand
planes to smooth all of my rough sawn wood. That's why the #4 was
first on the list.

Flattening and thicknessing rough sawn wood with hand planes isn't an easy
undertaking. If you are serious about doing it by hand (the neander route)
then you'll probably want a scrub plane, a jointer plane, a jack plane, and
a smooth plane.

Good luck

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"AAvK" wrote in message

Personaly, I despise plastic.

(a rediculous interjection, I know)

Alex

I've made a good living from it for the past 35 years. It has improved
your life even if you won't admit it.


Thank you for the effort. I'd still rather have rosewood or cherry plane
totes. Soft drink bottles and dialysis machines, that's another matter.

Patriarch

"Mike H." wrote in
:


What plane are you thinking of getting? IMHO the most useful is a
low angle block plane, followed by a shoulder plane, a scraper plane,
and a
#3/
#4 smoother and a #5 jack.

I was gonna get a #4, then I was gonna get a standard block plane.
That was my original plan. But based on the amount of reading I've
been doing, the low-angle/shoulder planes makes sense to buy first.
But I will not have a joiner or a planer, so I was going to use hand
planes to smooth all of my rough sawn wood. That's why the #4 was
first on the list.


OK, now that's a different question altogether.

The #4 is not particularly good at that. A #5 is better, and a #6
better still. And you WILL want and need a good block plane.

I have done without a power jointer so far, but it isn't as though I've
been saving money - I just don't have the space to give it. Yet. But
the planer cost about the same as two good handplanes, is a lot faster,
and does things for you that will take a good while to learn to do with
planes.

S3S lumber, a planer, a LV block plane, and a LV low angle smoother can
get you a long ways towards finishing your projects. And finishing is
what will make it easier to budget for more tools.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"AAvK" wrote in message

Personaly, I despise plastic.

I've made a good living from it for the past 35 years. It has improved
your life even if you won't admit it.

Hell no it hasn't. It just about bankrupted me.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Charlie Self wrote:

Generally, I agree with your observations, until you reach the above. The
planes I've had with plastic knobs--rear totes were fine--all had raised
seams, and after a bit of use, I could always tell what was wrong with
them. Or my hand could.

Fortunately knobs are easy enough to turn that even a 10 year old can do
it.

(He did, too. I need to remember to yank off the knob I turned myself and
put the one he did on there. I had to clean it up a little to make it
suitably smooth for my poor widdle delicate fingers, but he nailed the
shape.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Nate Perkins wrote:

But I will not have a joiner or a planer, so I was going to use hand
planes to smooth all of my rough sawn wood. That's why the #4 was
first on the list.

Flattening and thicknessing rough sawn wood with hand planes isn't an easy
undertaking. If you are serious about doing it by hand (the neander
route) then you'll probably want a scrub plane, a jointer plane, a jack
plane, and a smooth plane.

Having come up through this myself, due to space as the overriding
consideration, with money a close second, I can say that you *can* do it
all with a #4 if your projects are smallish. You spend forever
re-adjusting it. A #4 and a #5 is better. Two of each, better still. The
advantage is in having more planes so you can leave them set up different
ways. Or perhaps an easy-to-adjust Veritas might make up for some of this.
Changing the mouth on a Bailey type is tedious, and it's better to set it
and leave it alone.

I don't have a jointer yet, but I do have a Sargent #6 that I hope to get in
service soon (as soon as I drill a tote hole correctly . I also caved
and bought a benchtop mechanical jointer because I really suck at getting
an edge *exactly* perpendicular to a face, no matter how many gadgets I
employ to help me in the process. (Shop built jointer fence followed by a
real LV jointer fence.) It's useful for getting stock consistently flat
too. This one leaves a horrible burnished and washboarded finish on the
wood, but I haven't bothered to tune it up. It saves me from the parts I
can't do very well, and then I can go back in with hand planes and make the
wood look puuuurty without screwing up the flatness and perpendicularity
too much in the process.

Not the real Neander way, and a lame excuse for Normism too, but it gets me
there. Only the results matter, right?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Silvan wrote in
:

#8s are damn hard to find used too.

Drive by: I got my #8 on ebay in November for $42. Complete, and in good
condition, although I haven't tuned it yet. 'course, shipping was another
$17, but hey, others in this thread are reporting those prices for 4s and
5s! So, shop around.
--
Prof. Chris Hartman | "To use bad English is regrettable,
University of Alaska Fairbanks | to use bad Scotch is unforgivable."
Arctic Region Supercmptng Ctr. | http://www.cs.uaf.edu/~hartman

"Patriarch" wrote in message

Thank you for the effort. I'd still rather have rosewood or cherry plane
totes. Soft drink bottles and dialysis machines, that's another matter.

Patriarch

Exactly. No one material can do everything all the time. I'm also a fan of
using metal where is should be used, but can you imagine your printer made
from cast iron housings?
Ed

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:05:05 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


Exactly. No one material can do everything all the time. I'm also a fan of
using metal where is should be used, but can you imagine your printer made
from cast iron housings?
Ed

An MP3 player made of walnut would be cool...

Barry

"Mike H." wrote:
I was gonna get a #4, then I was gonna get a standard block plane. That was
my original plan. But based on the amount of reading I've been doing, the
low-angle/shoulder planes makes sense to buy first. But I will not have a
joiner or a planer, so I was going to use hand planes to smooth all of my
rough sawn wood. That's why the #4 was first on the list.

If you're starting with roughsawn wood, you need to flattten it,
and square your edges. That means longer planes, not shorter ones
and a shooting board or very large and flat bench. A #4 is boing
to be one of the last planes that you use in the process, it
finishes up wha the others have gotten "just about right". DAGS
on shooting board for more info. A #6 or 7 is very useful on
flattening as well as in squaring up the wood, then you'll need to
go backwards yo a #5 and then a #4 or #3. Hopefully you won't
need a scrub plane, but in a pinch a #4 with a highly radiused
blade will work to flatten the board before you use the longer of
the planes. You really need to check out
http://www.supertool.com as well as http://www.amgron.clara.net
for info on what planes are used for what and how to care and use
them. The reason that many people have suggested using the older
Stanleys is that you can't do everything you need to do with just
one or two planes, not realistically anyway, and that the cost
start mounting pretty quickly if you are buying new planes. The
old planes are likely to have been used by someone who knew how to
use them, so little to no fettling may be required.

All of this assumes that you can sharpen a plade to a high degree
of sherpeness, pretty darn isn't sharp enough by half.
Look in the antiques stores and tag sales in your area for old
planes. Depending on where you are this can range from a
no-brainer to very difficult.

I hope this helps,
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Silvan wrote:

I also caved
and bought a benchtop mechanical jointer because I really suck at getting
an edge *exactly* perpendicular to a face, no matter how many gadgets I
employ to help me in the process. (Shop built jointer fence followed by a
real LV jointer fence.) It's useful for getting stock consistently flat
too.

I struggled with this as well (http://tinyurl.com/675gf). I ended up
using Jeff Gorman's suggestion
(http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/edgeplaning/squareedgeindex.htm)
.. It works very well if you should want to give it a try.

Although certainly not an "old" hand at it now, I have flattened quite a
lot of very rough stock by hand, typically 10" wide stuff. Sometimes I
thickness small pieces by hand just for the pleasure of it too. If you
are going to do this much, a scrub plane is really really really handy.
You might be able to get one cheap used, or get ECE woody, or get a
really crappy #4/5 (used or Home Depot junk) and put a *heavy* camber on
the blade and open up the throat a mile. This will make the heavy chores
surprisingly fast and easy. You really want to do this, honest. Use that
crappy grinder of yours. It's a scrub plane, it doesn't have to be
perfect (hell, mine currently has a pretty good nick out of the blade...)

PK

Hehehe. I got those planes fair and square for weeks of work on
a previous design incarnation of your website. Speaking of which,
the site is 2 years old now (date-stamped 2002.) It's time for a
new design, Steve. (I should talk, my site hasn't been updated in
that time, either. blush )

I think the design is ok but it sure needs some updating.



Ah, I can tell those are counterfit. They're already marked 2005 and
it's only 2004 now!

but they won't be finished till then so there (G)



Ooh, jointer planes? scritch, scritch, scritch Let's talk!
I still don't own a Normite jointer and I never really got
fully comfortable with that bigass oaken bastihd of your earliest
design.

these are really bigass. I have not finished one far enough to weight it yet but
they are going to be monsters.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Paul Kierstead wrote:

I struggled with this as well (http://tinyurl.com/675gf). I ended up
using Jeff Gorman's suggestion

No time to look at the moment, but I'm sure I tried that too.

are going to do this much, a scrub plane is really really really handy.

I have one, just as you described more or less. It's the new #4 with a
broken old lever cap that has no spring, the mouth is wide open, and it has
a vicious ugly ) blade in it. It does nasty things to wood, and does it
fast. But it doesn't get anything flat.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"Patriarch" wrote in message

Thank you for the effort. I'd still rather have rosewood or cherry
plane totes. Soft drink bottles and dialysis machines, that's
another matter.

Patriarch

Exactly. No one material can do everything all the time. I'm also a
fan of using metal where is should be used, but can you imagine your
printer made from cast iron housings?
Ed



In what seems like another lifetime, I used an even-then-antique
letterpress, made mostly of cast iron. IIRC, it was called a Kluge.
Working for a neanderprinter.

Life changes, doesn't it?

Patriarch

writes:

Isn't it something the way these things work on us. There's absolutely
nothing quantifiable in what you posted Mike. It's all subjective.
But...
it's the way things go. I have a Remington 870 that I use just for deer
hunting. As hunting goes, I much prefer bow hunting than gun hunting, but
when shotgun and rifle season comes around I find myself anxious for it,
and
loving it when I head out into the woods with that 870. I just love the
feel of that gun in my hands. Nothing quantifiable about it. The 870
stands on its own as a first rate firearm, but I'm talking about a love
affair that goes way beyond the merits of a shotgun. Where I hunt one
could
make a good case for having a 30-06 in the gun cabinet, but I just use
that
870. It's all about the way it feels in my hands. Well, that and the
number of deer that have met their fate in front of that gun. My other
guns
are all nothing more than utilitarian devices to me. I could sell any one
of them and never really miss them. There is indeed a certain irrational
aspect to this stuff.
--

So very true. About 18 months ago, I started sewing again after a 20-year
rest (the same time as my woodworking, if one can call mine woodworking).
FYI, in 1983, I started my business which consumed my time and left no
time for the other fun stuff as family and business had to take priority
over my hobbies regardless of how much we benefited from certain hobbies.
Anyway, last December I bought a state-of-the-art sewing machine that does
all the fancy stuff, pre-programmed (discs) embroidery work was the catch
there. Yes, I've used it, but 95-98 percent of my sewing is done on my
1973 Viking 6030 (very state-of-the-art back then). Some old friends just
cannot be retired!!! Like my old Craftsman power tools, it just goes on
and on and on. (Still annoyed with my ex who borrowed the mid-60s
circular saw a dozen years ago and got it stolen with his van!)

The new circular saw I bought, also a Craftsman, just isn't the old one!
It just doesn't feel right in my hands, and I find myself often using a
much smaller and less effective one purchased at a yard sale. It's been
over ten years, and it should have worked its way into my affections by
now (or is that "sawn" its way?).

Any suggestions as to a way to learn to love the new one will be
considered. The old and the new were/are both 7.25 inch saws, so it's not
the weight, etc., or likely anything rational.

Glenna

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:10:23 -0800, (Glenna Rose)
wrote:

writes:

Isn't it something the way these things work on us. There's absolutely
nothing quantifiable in what you posted Mike. It's all subjective.
But...
it's the way things go. I have a Remington 870 that I use just for deer
hunting. As hunting goes, I much prefer bow hunting than gun hunting, but
when shotgun and rifle season comes around I find myself anxious for it,
and
loving it when I head out into the woods with that 870. I just love the
feel of that gun in my hands. Nothing quantifiable about it. The 870
stands on its own as a first rate firearm, but I'm talking about a love
affair that goes way beyond the merits of a shotgun. Where I hunt one
could
make a good case for having a 30-06 in the gun cabinet, but I just use
that
870. It's all about the way it feels in my hands. Well, that and the
number of deer that have met their fate in front of that gun. My other
guns
are all nothing more than utilitarian devices to me. I could sell any one
of them and never really miss them. There is indeed a certain irrational
aspect to this stuff.
--

So very true. About 18 months ago, I started sewing again after a 20-year
rest (the same time as my woodworking, if one can call mine woodworking).
FYI, in 1983, I started my business which consumed my time and left no
time for the other fun stuff as family and business had to take priority
over my hobbies regardless of how much we benefited from certain hobbies.
Anyway, last December I bought a state-of-the-art sewing machine that does
all the fancy stuff, pre-programmed (discs) embroidery work was the catch
there. Yes, I've used it, but 95-98 percent of my sewing is done on my
1973 Viking 6030 (very state-of-the-art back then).

I know how that works. My wife has three Vikings, including a Rose.
She uses her Number 1 (older model) for most stuff and the Rose for
embroidery. Her travelling machine (when she gets it back) is a 6460
she bought new more than 30 years ago.


Some old friends just
cannot be retired!!! Like my old Craftsman power tools, it just goes on
and on and on. (Still annoyed with my ex who borrowed the mid-60s
circular saw a dozen years ago and got it stolen with his van!)

The new circular saw I bought, also a Craftsman, just isn't the old one!
It just doesn't feel right in my hands, and I find myself often using a
much smaller and less effective one purchased at a yard sale. It's been
over ten years, and it should have worked its way into my affections by
now (or is that "sawn" its way?).

Sometimes the old stuff is just superior, even given equal quality.


Any suggestions as to a way to learn to love the new one will be
considered. The old and the new were/are both 7.25 inch saws, so it's not
the weight, etc., or likely anything rational.

Glenna

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

"Paul Kierstead" wrote in message
...
If you
are going to do this much, a scrub plane is really really really handy.
You might be able to get one cheap used, or get ECE woody, or get a
really crappy #4/5 (used or Home Depot junk) and put a *heavy* camber on
the blade and open up the throat a mile. This will make the heavy chores
surprisingly fast and easy. You really want to do this, honest. Use that
crappy grinder of yours. It's a scrub plane, it doesn't have to be
perfect (hell, mine currently has a pretty good nick out of the blade...)


It's also a plane for rough work, and the standard blade is a skosh thin for
the type of work to be performed. Thicker would be nice, so you could get
rid of a bunch of chatter telegraphing to your elbow.

It's also a plane for rough work, and the standard blade is a skosh thin for
the type of work to be performed. Thicker would be nice, so you could get
rid of a bunch of chatter telegraphing to your elbow.


http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/

Alex

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 01:27:33 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:

Generally, I agree with your observations, until you reach the above. The
planes I've had with plastic knobs--rear totes were fine--all had raised
seams, and after a bit of use, I could always tell what was wrong with
them. Or my hand could.

Fortunately knobs are easy enough to turn that even a 10 year old can do
it.

Oh boy, if you can keep him interested in turning at that age, I have
no doubt he'll become exceptional. There's just something about
learning at that age.

(He did, too. I need to remember to yank off the knob I turned myself and
put the one he did on there. I had to clean it up a little to make it
suitably smooth for my poor widdle delicate fingers, but he nailed the
shape.)

Excellent. Enjoy!

JP

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:10:23 -0800, (Glenna Rose)
calmly ranted:

-snip-
So very true. About 18 months ago, I started sewing again after a 20-year
rest (the same time as my woodworking, if one can call mine woodworking).
FYI, in 1983, I started my business which consumed my time and left no
time for the other fun stuff as family and business had to take priority
over my hobbies regardless of how much we benefited from certain hobbies.
Anyway, last December I bought a state-of-the-art sewing machine that does
all the fancy stuff, pre-programmed (discs) embroidery work was the catch
there. Yes, I've used it, but 95-98 percent of my sewing is done on my
1973 Viking 6030 (very state-of-the-art back then). Some old friends just
cannot be retired!!! Like my old Craftsman power tools, it just goes on
and on and on. (Still annoyed with my ex who borrowed the mid-60s
circular saw a dozen years ago and got it stolen with his van!)

I just picked up a use Consew 210 industrial sewing machine and am
learning how to use it to create my glare guards. (After 5 shops
turned down doing them for me, 3 after they made samples.) It is SO
much easier to use than my $5 garage sale Universal (cast iron beastie
like Mom's) which was easy enough to use.


The new circular saw I bought, also a Craftsman, just isn't the old one!
It just doesn't feel right in my hands, and I find myself often using a
much smaller and less effective one purchased at a yard sale. It's been
over ten years, and it should have worked its way into my affections by
now (or is that "sawn" its way?).

I don't doubt that at all. Tools have a "feel" which you either like,
adapt to, or love right away. It's not always evident upon picking up
an object, either. Some feel awkward until they're in use, when they
come into their own and pull you in. I felt that way about the little
Stanley #60-1/2 low-angle block plane until I used it, and now it's
one of my most-used tools on a daily basis.


Any suggestions as to a way to learn to love the new one will be
considered. The old and the new were/are both 7.25 inch saws, so it's not
the weight, etc., or likely anything rational.

Since battling Searz over their Crapsman warranties both in the late
70s (when I quit buying anything Searz) and just this month again
(when an old Craftsman driver finally died), I've nothing good to say
about them, so I won't even TRY to tell you how to love that one,
Glenna. Instead, I'll say "Use the other one!" The subject is a can
of worms for those of us who tried to make a living with their tools.

--
Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|- www.diversify.com
Ban SUVs today! -|- Full Service Websites

Larry Jaques wrote:

I just picked up a use Consew 210 industrial sewing machine and am
learning how to use it to create my glare guards. (After 5 shops
turned down doing them for me, 3 after they made samples.) It is SO
much easier to use than my $5 garage sale Universal (cast iron beastie
like Mom's) which was easy enough to use.

Yerk. I too know how to run one of those dad blasted things. I'd rather
eat paint though. What little (verrrry little) sewing I need to do is best
done by hand.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Jay Pique wrote:

Oh boy, if you can keep him interested in turning at that age, I have
no doubt he'll become exceptional. There's just something about
learning at that age.

He's better at it than I am, truthfully. He has infinite reserves of
patience, and he's very furtive with his cuts. He takes his time, and
coaxes the shape out just oh so. While I tend to be less furtive, and more
aggressive.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Silvan wrote in
:

Nate Perkins wrote:

Flattening and thicknessing rough sawn wood with hand planes isn't an
easy undertaking. If you are serious about doing it by hand (the
neander route) then you'll probably want a scrub plane, a jointer
plane, a jack plane, and a smooth plane.

Having come up through this myself, due to space as the overriding
consideration, with money a close second, I can say that you *can* do
it all with a #4 if your projects are smallish. You spend forever
re-adjusting it. A #4 and a #5 is better. Two of each, better still.
The advantage is in having more planes so you can leave them set up
different ways. Or perhaps an easy-to-adjust Veritas might make up
for some of this. Changing the mouth on a Bailey type is tedious, and
it's better to set it and leave it alone.

Wow. I am a middle aged guy in pretty good shape, and when I tried to
do it all with an old #4 it was a heavy duty workout. Just taking a 4/4
roughsawn board down to 3/4" is a lot of wood removal. Even face
jointing a board with a lot of bow or twist in it is fair work. I did
it that way for a while, and it sure made me appreciate a power jointer
and planer.

It also made me appreciate the skill of the guys who can neander it
really perfectly flat and square with nothing but a plane and a couple
of winding sticks :-)

I don't have a jointer yet, but I do have a Sargent #6 that I hope to
get in service soon (as soon as I drill a tote hole correctly . I
also caved and bought a benchtop mechanical jointer because I really
suck at getting an edge *exactly* perpendicular to a face, no matter
how many gadgets I employ to help me in the process. (Shop built
jointer fence followed by a real LV jointer fence.) It's useful for
getting stock consistently flat too. This one leaves a horrible
burnished and washboarded finish on the wood, but I haven't bothered
to tune it up. It saves me from the parts I can't do very well, and
then I can go back in with hand planes and make the wood look puuuurty
without screwing up the flatness and perpendicularity too much in the
process.

That's great. The only time I joint by hand anymore is when I've got a
nice-grained board that's wider than my power jointer.

Not the real Neander way, and a lame excuse for Normism too, but it
gets me there. Only the results matter, right?

You bet! Only thing that matters more than the results is the enjoyment
:-)

He's better at it than I am, truthfully. He has infinite reserves of
patience, and he's very furtive with his cuts. He takes his time, and
coaxes the shape out just oh so. While I tend to be less furtive, and more
aggressive.


"furtive" ... hhmmm ... just had to look that one up!

Main Entry: fur·tive
Pronunciation: 'f&r-tiv
Function: adjective
Etymology: French or Latin; French furtif, from Latin furtivus,
from furtum theft, from fur thief, from or akin to Greek phOr
thief; akin to Greek pherein to carry -- more at BEAR
1 a : done by stealth : SURREPTITIOUS b : expressive of stealth:
SLY had a furtive look about him
2 : obtained underhandedly : STOLEN
synonym see SECRET
- fur·tive·ly adverb
- fur·tive·ness noun
http://www.m-w.com/

Alex

Nate Perkins wrote:
Wow. I am a middle aged guy in pretty good shape, and when I tried to
do it all with an old #4 it was a heavy duty workout. Just taking a 4/4
roughsawn board down to 3/4" is a lot of wood removal. Even face
jointing a board with a lot of bow or twist in it is fair work. I did
it that way for a while, and it sure made me appreciate a power jointer
and planer.
That's great. The only time I joint by hand anymore is when I've got a
nice-grained board that's wider than my power jointer.
You bet! Only thing that matters more than the results is the enjoyment :-)

Sorry you had such a hard time of it Nate. Just FYI, a #4 is a
smoother, that's why it was so hard for you to remove the 1/4" of
wood with it. A #6 or so would have been a better place to start
and then, when you had it down to nearly the right thickness and
flatness, switch down to a #5 and then a #4. Least that's the way
I do it. As for jointing, it's simple. Clamp the two boards on
top of each other on your shooting board and run a #6 or #7 on its
side along the sandwiched sdes of the boards until the shaving is
full length, doesn't take more than a couple minutes unless the
baords are amazingly shaped. The sides will match up and be ready
to glue.

It sounds as though you are missing some planes from your
collection. But then, who isn't. %-)

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/

Silvan wrote:

I have one, just as you described more or less. It's the new #4 with a
broken old lever cap that has no spring, the mouth is wide open, and it has
a vicious ugly ) blade in it. It does nasty things to wood, and does it
fast. But it doesn't get anything flat.

Hmm...well, "flat" is a kinda funny word. You should be able to get a
board pretty flat with a scrub plane, where flat is defined as all the
planing ridges lie in the same plane. It will not be smooth, but will
be mostly flat. Make sense? The switch planes for real flat and smooth.

PK

Dave in Fairfax wrote in
:

Nate Perkins wrote:
Wow. I am a middle aged guy in pretty good shape, and when I tried
to do it all with an old #4 it was a heavy duty workout. Just taking
a 4/4 roughsawn board down to 3/4" is a lot of wood removal. Even
face jointing a board with a lot of bow or twist in it is fair work.
I did it that way for a while, and it sure made me appreciate a power
jointer and planer.
That's great. The only time I joint by hand anymore is when I've got
a nice-grained board that's wider than my power jointer.
You bet! Only thing that matters more than the results is the
enjoyment :-)

Sorry you had such a hard time of it Nate. Just FYI, a #4 is a
smoother, that's why it was so hard for you to remove the 1/4" of
wood with it. A #6 or so would have been a better place to start
and then, when you had it down to nearly the right thickness and
flatness, switch down to a #5 and then a #4. Least that's the way
I do it. As for jointing, it's simple. Clamp the two boards on
top of each other on your shooting board and run a #6 or #7 on its
side along the sandwiched sdes of the boards until the shaving is
full length, doesn't take more than a couple minutes unless the
baords are amazingly shaped. The sides will match up and be ready
to glue.

Right, I know how to do it (and have done it with most of the planes you
suggest). The fellow I was replying to was considering doing it all
with a #4. Having tried it once, I was trying to caution him that
(while possible) it is a lot of work.

It sounds as though you are missing some planes from your
collection. But then, who isn't. %-)

Planes that help me mill lumber wouldn't be of much use to me, since I
do most all lumber milling by machine. I admire the skill and
persistence of the neanders, YMMV.

The planes I would find handy a
- a Veritas medium shoulder plane (upgrade for my Record 077)
- a Lie-Nielsen low angle block (upgrade for my Stanley 60-1/2)
- a Veritas scraping plane (upgrade for my Stanley 80)

Nate Perkins wrote:

Wow. I am a middle aged guy in pretty good shape, and when I tried to
do it all with an old #4 it was a heavy duty workout. Just taking a 4/4
roughsawn board down to 3/4" is a lot of wood removal. Even face

I was doing skip planed S2S FWIW. Only the edges were rough. The faces
were too ugly to use without attention, but most of the hogging work had
been done already.

jointing a board with a lot of bow or twist in it is fair work. I did
it that way for a while, and it sure made me appreciate a power jointer
and planer.

I finally bought a power jointer. Little bitty one. All I could afford
money or room for, but I do appreciate it.

It also made me appreciate the skill of the guys who can neander it
really perfectly flat and square with nothing but a plane and a couple
of winding sticks :-)

Yeah buddy! They didn't even get a 2000-grit mirror polish on their blades,
or lap their plane soles on a piece of granite.

But you know, the side of that coin that people don't talk about much is
that woodworking used to be too expensive for most people to enjoy. We
romanticize about the days of yore, but how many colonists were out in
their shops on weekends making furniture and whatnot? They were too busy
worrying about food. Everybody used to have some skill, but most of it was
strictly utilitarian. Furniture was a luxury most people couldn't afford,
even while they were surrounded by walnut trees 5' in diameter. Or hell,
CHESTNUT trees.

Not the real Neander way, and a lame excuse for Normism too, but it
gets me there. Only the results matter, right?

You bet! Only thing that matters more than the results is the enjoyment
:-)

Well said.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Dave in Fairfax wrote:

It sounds as though you are missing some planes from your
collection. But then, who isn't. %-)

The ol' Blood and Gore himself, I suspect.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

AAvK wrote:

"furtive" ... hhmmm ... just had to look that one up!

I had this more in mind:

WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]


furtive
adj 1: marked by quiet and caution and secrecy; taking pains to
avoid being observed;

Especially "quiet" and "caution."

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

I had this more in mind:
WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]
furtive
adj 1: marked by quiet and caution and secrecy; taking pains to
avoid being observed;
Especially "quiet" and "caution."



The adjective "furtive" has 2 senses in WordNet.

1. furtive, lurking, skulking, sneak(prenominal), sneaky, stealthy, surreptitious -- (marked by quiet and caution and secrecy;
taking pains to avoid being observed; "a furtive manner"; "a lurking prowler"; "a sneak attack"; "stealthy footsteps"; "a
surreptitious glance at his watch"; "someone skulking in the shadows")
2. backstair, backstairs, furtive -- (secret and sly or sordid; "backstairs gossip"; "his low backstairs cunning"- A.L.Guerard;
"backstairs intimacies"; "furtive behavior")

Yes considering all those options, we can make what we want out of it then, ay?
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/ Says:

1.. [adj] secret and sly or sordid; "backstairs gossip"; "his low backstairs cunning"- A.L.Guerard; "backstairs intimacies";
"furtive behavior"
2.. [adj] marked by quiet and caution and secrecy; taking pains to avoid being observed; "a furtive manner"; "a lurking prowler";
"a sneak attack"; "stealthy footsteps"; "a surreptitious glance at his watch"; "someone skulking in the shadows"
Definition: \Fur"tive\, a. [L. furtivus, fr. furtum theft, fr. fur
thief, akin to ferre to bear: cf. F. furtif. See {Fertile}.]
Stolen; obtained or characterized by stealth; sly; secret;
stealthy; as, a furtive look. --Prior.

A hasty and furtive ceremony. --Hallam.


Related Terms: artful, back-door, backstairs, calculating, chiseling, clandestine, collusive, conspiratorial, covert, covinous,
crafty, cunning, deceitful, doggo, false, falsehearted, feline, finagling, foxy, fraudulent, guileful, hidden, hidden out, hidlings,
hole-and-corner, hugger-mugger, in ambush, in hiding, in the wings, indirect, insidious, lurking, on tiptoe, private, privy,
prowling, pussyfoot, pussyfooted, quiet, scheming, secret, secretive, sharp, shifty, skulking, slinking, slinky, slippery, sly,
sneaking, sneaky, stealing, stealthy, surreptitious, treacherous, trickish, tricky, two-faced, under cover, under the table,
undercover, underground, underhand, underhanded, under-the-counter, under-the-table, unobtrusive, untrustworthy, waiting concealed,
wily


Alex

Nate Perkins wrote:
Right, I know how to do it (and have done it with most of the planes you
suggest). The fellow I was replying to was considering doing it all
with a #4. Having tried it once, I was trying to caution him that
(while possible) it is a lot of work.
Planes that help me mill lumber wouldn't be of much use to me, since I
do most all lumber milling by machine. I admire the skill and
persistence of the neanders, YMMV.
The planes I would find handy a
- a Veritas medium shoulder plane (upgrade for my Record 077)
- a Lie-Nielsen low angle block (upgrade for my Stanley 60-1/2)
- a Veritas scraping plane (upgrade for my Stanley 80)

Opps, my bad. I misunderstood. I like your list of wnated planes
BTW, I was thinking #112 though. I'm not sure though, It'd save
my thumbs, but it seems to me that there was a thread a while back
about how hard it was to get a #112 style plane to work properly.

Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/