"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:20:43 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Only because some idiot at Microsoft decided to place the cursor above
the message in Outlook. EVERY SINGLE MAIL USER AGENT prior to outlook
used bottom posting as the default.

"Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
happens to be"


Damnit! Stop that. You guys - this is s'pposed to be a serious group.
--

-Mike-

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:28:37 -0800, Tim Douglass wrote:
"Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
happens to be"

Don't know who I'm quoting, but it was the best commentary I've ever
read on the topic.

I'm thinking someone on comp.sys.mac.apps, for some reason.

On 01 Dec 2004 10:19:00 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Brett Thomas responds:


I know that's most of the time I spend here. Simply do a Google search
for my address and you can figure out when my shop's working. If it's
not (or I'm not), I'm in here. If it works and I basically know what
I'm doing, most of my woodworking-Jones time is spent in the shop.

Unfortunately I had knee surgery recently _and_ my shop is still full of
boxes from my move, so I'm hanging out in here because all I want to do
right now is woodwork and this is the closest I can get without being
able to stand up on my own.

Ain't it fun. Three times, one left, two right, just had lubricant (Hyagel?)
injections in both sides (series of 6 fun shots, 3 per knee, one per week).
Eventual left knee replacement, but the surgeon wants me to peel off pounds, in
the meantime telling me that the lubricant can be repeated every 6 months if
needed. It seems to work well for me--he also tells me it only works for half
the people who get it. Knees are much better. Not young enough for running, but
much better. So there's less pain in your future, too, I'd guess.

Good luck with the recovery.

Charlie Self

Dad had his replaced a little over 8 years ago -- he had gotten to where
he couldn't climb into and out of a car without severe pain and couldn't
walk long distances without having to sit down for a while. The
replacements totally gave him his life and productivity back and have
lasted well. Unfortunately, his hips are giving him problems now -- they
are trying to stave off replacements for a while.

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:28:37 -0800, Tim Douglass
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:20:43 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Only because some idiot at Microsoft decided to place the cursor above
the message in Outlook. EVERY SINGLE MAIL USER AGENT prior to outlook
used bottom posting as the default.

"Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
happens to be"

Don't know who I'm quoting, but it was the best commentary I've ever
read on the topic.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com


A courtesy, "windex alert!" would have been appreciated. OK, now where
are the paper towels?

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:47:09 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Dad had his replaced a little over 8 years ago -- he had gotten to where
he couldn't climb into and out of a car without severe pain and couldn't
walk long distances without having to sit down for a while. The
replacements totally gave him his life and productivity back and have
lasted well. Unfortunately, his hips are giving him problems now -- they
are trying to stave off replacements for a while.

Interesting that you mention that...
Years ago, when she was about 75, my mom had both knees replaced, and
had a lot of hip pain afterwards...
the specialist said that it was a combination of age, pain that she
had before but was kind of covered by the knee pain, and stress on the
hip sockets from her knee problems over the years..
I think as the process of knee replacement gets more common and folks
have it done earlier, as in before the knee tweaks other joints, these
problems will be less frequent...
it IS a great thing, though, that we can replace joints now..

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:13:58 +0000, mac davis wrote:

Interesting that you mention that...
Years ago, when she was about 75, my mom had both knees replaced, and had
a lot of hip pain afterwards...
the specialist said that it was a combination of age, pain that she had
before but was kind of covered by the knee pain, and stress on the hip
sockets from her knee problems over the years.. I think as the process of
knee replacement gets more common and folks have it done earlier, as in
before the knee tweaks other joints, these problems will be less
frequent...
it IS a great thing, though, that we can replace joints now..

I have a buddy who had a hip replacement about 6 years ago, then both
knees about 3 years ago and finally the other hip this year. He also has
a metal rod in one arm from almost ripping of the arm. Like (I
think) Charlie Self, all this damage was the result of riding a crotch
rocket over the hills and through the woods.

He claims to now be pain free. The Doc wants him to consider a shoulder
replacement, but he says no as there is no guarantee of swinging a golf
club after that. He claims it's getting very difficult to swim with all
the metal parts ;-)

-Doug

Doug Winterburn wrote:
He claims to now be pain free. The Doc wants him to consider a shoulder
replacement, but he says no as there is no guarantee of swinging a golf
club after that. He claims it's getting very difficult to swim with all
the metal parts ;-)

I was talking with a friend about this the other day - when they were
writing science fiction thirty years ago, they of course figured that
the first "bionic man" would be some big-deal major replacement thing.
What happens of course, is instead that, piece by piece, Grandpa ends up
being 25% non-organic by mass as parts wear out...

-BAT

Doug Winterburn responds:
have a buddy who had a hip replacement about 6 years ago, then both
knees about 3 years ago and finally the other hip this year. He also has
a metal rod in one arm from almost ripping of the arm. Like (I
think) Charlie Self, all this damage was the result of riding a crotch
rocket over the hills and through the woods.

He claims to now be pain free. The Doc wants him to consider a shoulder
replacement, but he says no as there is no guarantee of swinging a golf
club after that. He claims it's getting very difficult to swim with all
the metal parts ;-)

Heh. Yeah, enduro riding can be rough on the clumsy.

I finished my knee lube injections (Hyagel?) about a week ago. Knees have been
improving since, and are almost totally pain free now.

You don't know what that means until you've spent most of a decade with a pain
level ranging from 5 to about 9 along with all the other fun signs of not being
a teenager any more.

I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is probably
sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful those
times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.

Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
snip

Heh. Yeah, enduro riding can be rough on the clumsy.

I finished my knee lube injections (Hyagel?) about a week ago. Knees have
been
improving since, and are almost totally pain free now.

You don't know what that means until you've spent most of a decade with a
pain
level ranging from 5 to about 9 along with all the other fun signs of not
being
a teenager any more.

I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is
probably
sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful
those
times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.

Tell us more, Charlie. I get cortisone in both knees every 6 weeks. That &
Vicodin keeps me functioning somewhat. Left knee has NO cartilage left, post
trauma from broken knee joint bone in '74, right knee from taking all the
stress. Is what you've had one of the multiple shot "permanent" fixes?

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

Norman D. Crow asks:


I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is
probably
sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful
those
times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.

Tell us more, Charlie. I get cortisone in both knees every 6 weeks. That &
Vicodin keeps me functioning somewhat. Left knee has NO cartilage left, post
trauma from broken knee joint bone in '74, right knee from taking all the
stress. Is what you've had one of the multiple shot "permanent" fixes?

Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that works
for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine up. I
had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these days of
parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that too
much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.

Cortisone did absolutely nothing for me except create more pain in other areas.
Not too handy.

I've got a tape on a better known brand somewhere upstairs--unless it got
tossed in the pre-holiday cleaning...the tape's gone but the name came back:
SynVisc. According to my doctor, they are the same thing, or close enough.

A series of 3 injections in each knee, at the kneecap...to be honest, I didn't
watch to see exactly where each went in, but he injects a lump that causes more
ache--well, really, pain--than does the shot. That leaves fairly quickly, and I
drove the 50 miles home (auto tranny, though: left my truck and used the car).
Come back in a week and get #2, etc. I started getting light relief after #1 in
the left knee. The right knee is now almost totally pain free. The left knee,
with a 30 year old screw holding the kneecap from slipping, plus a potful of
arthritic build-up, is stiff, but almost pain free.

It is worth doing a google check and asking your doctor about SynVisc anyway.
I'm told the cost is in the neighborhood of $350 per knee but that may be out
of date.

AFAIK, there are NO side effects, nothing at all, particularly compared to a
mix of cortisone and Vicodin.

I'm told it may last 2 years, so it's not really permanent. But I'm also told
that the shots can be repeated at 6 month intervals if needed.

Good luck.




Charlie Self
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)

Charlie Self wrote:
Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that works
for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine up.

Google says brand name Hyalgan, generic Hyaluronic acid. News story:

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/health/h...2603_knee.html

Drug Encyclopedia Link:

http://members.kaiserpermanente.org/...t/203531b.html

Was talking to a relative of SWMBO over Thanksgiving who had this done.
Those whom it helps, really love it (it helped him). But if it
doesn't help you, it apparently does nothing. Glad you found something
that helps, Charlie - 5 - 9 pain hasta really put a damper on your sunny
disposition. And man I hate being on Vicodin - fuzzy all the time.


-BAT

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Norman D. Crow asks:


I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is
probably
sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be
wonderful
those
times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.

Tell us more, Charlie. I get cortisone in both knees every 6 weeks. That
&
Vicodin keeps me functioning somewhat. Left knee has NO cartilage left,
post
trauma from broken knee joint bone in '74, right knee from taking all the
stress. Is what you've had one of the multiple shot "permanent" fixes?

Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that
works
for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine
up. I
had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these days
of
parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that
too
much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.

Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.

I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me for
the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
late afternoon.

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

Norman Crow responds:
Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that
works
for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine
up. I
had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these days
of
parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that
too
much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.

Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.

I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me for
the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
late afternoon.

Yes. I used to take a 20 day prescrip in 10 days, then do without for 10 days.
Kept me from becoming addicted, of course, but sometimes that 10 days without
was more than uncomfortable.

Charlie Self
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Norman Crow responds:
Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that
works
for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set
mine
up. I
had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these
days
of
parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that
too
much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.

Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.

I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me
for
the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
late afternoon.

Yes. I used to take a 20 day prescrip in 10 days, then do without for 10
days.
Kept me from becoming addicted, of course, but sometimes that 10 days
without
was more than uncomfortable.

Talk about feelin' stupid . . My scrip says "1 or 2 every 4-6hr. as needed"
on a scrip of 80 pills with 3 refills. I stretched it out to 25
days(thinking I had to make them last a month) and asked pharmacy if they
could refill it 5 days early, and they said "Sure, this 80 pills is only a
10 day prescription". AAaaaaarrrrgh! Still don't take them anywhere near
that heavy, but do get it refilled every 12-13 days so I don't let the scrip
"time out".

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:58:53 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
spake the words:

Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.

As Nike said "Just Do It!", Nahmie. We'll still love a skinnier you.



I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me for
the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
late afternoon.

Ugh! Drugs. You're not doing any shop work any more, are you?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 02 Dec 2004 20:09:25 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

snip
I finished my knee lube injections (Hyagel?) about a week ago. Knees have been
improving since, and are almost totally pain free now.

You don't know what that means until you've spent most of a decade with a pain
level ranging from 5 to about 9 along with all the other fun signs of not being
a teenager any more.

I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is probably
sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful those
times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.

Charlie Self

that's great news!!!!
Having had a back problem for about 20 years, I can honestly say that
I "feel your pain" and know exactly what you mean about those rare
pain-free times...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:58:53 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
spake the words:

Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.

As Nike said "Just Do It!", Nahmie. We'll still love a skinnier you.



I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me
for
the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
late afternoon.

Ugh! Drugs. You're not doing any shop work any more, are you?

Not as much as I'd like to! What shop time I do get is late in the day,
after they've pretty much worn off. If I've been on my feet too much and in
pain, I usually just take more drugs & go to bed. When I am in the shop, I
have a couple stools that I keep handy and do as much as possible sitting
down.

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:18:02 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
wrote:
snip

Not as much as I'd like to! What shop time I do get is late in the day,
after they've pretty much worn off. If I've been on my feet too much and in
pain, I usually just take more drugs & go to bed. When I am in the shop, I
have a couple stools that I keep handy and do as much as possible sitting
down.

have you tried a rolling chair or stool?
I use on my "can't bend" days, and as long as I keep cords and scrap
off the floor, it works pretty good..
I scrounged up an old "secretaries chair"... swivel office chair with
height adjustment and good back support but no arms..

My problem is lower back, not knees, but I'm sure that the swivel
instead of twisting your body would help.. anything that gets me more
time in the shop works!!