"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Man - that had a biting tone. Sorry about that - I really did not intend
such a harsh sound.

No offense taken ... I have a lot of respect for both yours and Tom's
opinions and expertise.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

snip

Light pass over jointer fixes this.

Keep my Delta jointer close to my Tiawanese (sp?) cheapo TS for this
reason.

You gotta play what's delt.

Lou

Tom,

Another wonderful work of art. You do have a way with words.

It's funny, how often I find myself forgetting the little simple facts of
life when in the shop ... such as:

Just HOW fast could a piece of wood kick back on me? ( Given your 10" /3450
RPM saw ... about 102 MPH)

Will it hurt? (Yes, anything and everything in its path)


Thanks for passing along some wonderful wisdom obtained by calculation and
observation.


Regards,


Rick


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:35:06 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

"Woodchuck" wrote in message
I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
consuming
to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much
longer
I
don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?

It is apparently a well known fact that "pro shops" don't use splitters,
and
culturally speaking, we are convinced that all pro's have big pricks and
large cojones, therefore yours will somehow gain "pro" stature if you
also
refrain.

What's missing is the fact that most "pro's" learn early the necessity to
physically control the wood throughout the cut, something a weekend
woodworker may not learn, except the hard way.


I've probably been in a couple of dozen shops over the last thirty
five plus years that would be considered pro shops and used a ten inch
tablesaw somewhere in their operations. In some cases, like mine, it
was the primary sawing tool in the shop and in the others it was a
much used secondary tool because those shops used sliders as the
primary.

I honestly can't recall any instances where the guard and splitter
that came with the saw were in use. In those cases where a guard was
used, it was usually the type that provided dust extraction,
particularly in shops where a lot of MDF was cut; and it was
positioned so that the blade could be clearly seen during the cut. In
other words, it was not acting as a guard.

I can't speak to the size of their pricks and this is surely a topic
for another thread - if not another newsgroup.

They were/are, without exception, deca-digital wooddorkers.

The reasoning behind throwing away the OEM splitter/guard is almost
always the same:

1. The OEM splitter/guards are poorly designed rubbish.
2. The operator wants to see the blade and the area immediately
before and after the cut, so that he can react to what happens during
the cutting operation.
3. The operator wants to deal with the wood, the blade and the
fence - without other variables being introduced by the alleged safety
devices.

That said, there are a number of caveats that must be explored in
order to account for these pros continued ability to count to ten
without recourse to their pedestrial appendages.



Stock Preparation:

When I worked as a carpenter I would often see a future organ donor
try to feed a twisted, bowed, crooked, waney-edged piece of material
into the angry part of a poorly set up, underpowered, dull-bladed
widow maker of a machine that could only be called a tablesaw by
analogy.

These were the sorts who eventually wound up trying, ineffectively,
to clear nasal blockages with a phantom limblet.

The pro would avail himself of those tools which would render the
stock into a condition where it is fit to be fed into the saw, ie:
with a flat face produced on the jointer or careful use of the
thicknesser; with the faces planed parallel, the edges trued straight
on the jointer, and the twist eliminated or ameliorated via jointer or
cross cutting of the stock to eliminate the worst of the twist.

Anything less than this is Sawicide.



Artful Dodging And The Careful Management Of Fear:

"Fear is the mindkiller. Fear is the little death that brings total
obliteration." Frank Herbert.

The pro who seeks to protect his continued ability to disseminate
inseminating solutions never stands in a direct line with a potential
projectile. He stands to the side and addresses his saw with respect,
but without fear. Standing in the possible path of a piece of ash
that might be propelled towards the famous Italian Airline
(Gen-Italia) at a speed governed by a c. 3450 rpm, 3hp motor is an
exercise in Darwinism.

Fear and Foolish Inattention are what gets most infrequent users of
the tablesaw injured. Let us now explore Fear - Foolish Inattention
comes later.

I've seen them push the wood into the sawblade without sufficient
downward pressure on the table or sideward pressure on the fence -
this is the greatest cause of kickback. They proceed in a tentative
fashion and their fear is the cause of the feared result. It is as
though they do not want to commit the aligned force of their hand and
body pressure towards the spinning amputator - and this is good - to a
degree.

The solution is to be a student of the Bee Sting Theory.

The Bee Sting Theory states that: "One should never push on a piece
of material in such a way that - if a bee stung them on the ass - any
body part would naturally move towards the amputator."

The downward force is applied well prior to the intersection of the
blade and the material, as is the side pressure; and this pressure is
always applied in such a way and at such an angle to the amputator as
to make the body parts unavailable to the amputator under conditions
of surprisingly stressful events, ie: bee stings, earthquakes, naked
women springing quickly and unexpectedly into the field of vision,
etc.

Ahem...

Although the pro may adjust the height of the blade to project above
the material to various heights, in order to gain the advantages of
blade/tooth geometry - I would not recommend that an inexperienced
user do this. This user should only allow the teeth to barely stand
proud of the material - and he should do all of his cutting this way
until he is used to how the saw and the wood react.

When he gets used to cutting, his fear will leave him - but his
respect should remain.



Useful Appliances And Their Result In Use:

Although most small shop pros may eschew the use of the OEM alleged
safety devices, this is not to say that they use no safety devices at
all.

To whit:

They often make use of hold downs and feather boards. It is always
the case when I am attempting a glue line rip and is most often the
case in repetitive rips that pros use hold downs and featherboards.

These devices provide safety in the regard of appropriate pressure in
the appropriate direction, as well as providing a superior cut. They
also do this for you without occluding your line of sight to the blade
- a great benefit.

Deca-digital professionals also make constant use of push sticks. My
personal favorite is a 1/2" thk simulacrum of a female leg (magic
markered in replication of mesh stockings is optional in most shops,
but required in mine), with a spiked heel at the end to encompass the
woody material - ymmv on this.

On stock of such width as to make use of the GamStick (tm TW)
impractical, I resort to the use of an icepick. This is an old
patternmaker's trick but provides enhanced enjoyment to Kubrick fans.



Foolish Inattention:

This category begins with sawblades. Not to put too fine a point on
it, but - combo blades suck.

If you are going to do much ripping on the tablesaw you need to get a
ripping blade. Some ripping blades will give a rough cut but a good
glue line ripping blade will provide a wonderfully smooth surface,
suitable for glue ups without further treatment on the jointer.

Using the wrong blade for ripping results in a kerf that is too small
to assist in the prevention of kickback.

You must also be attentive to your saw setup. The blade must be
parallel to the fence. The blade should not toe in or out.

The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.
The blade must be parallel to the fence.

Can I get an Amen!

Properly prepared stock in a saw that is properly set up, with a blade
of the proper type, operated by someone who respects the saw without
fearing it, will result in safe cuts - with the following provisos:

Understand Your Stock:

During the process of stock preparation you should have discovered a
good deal about the properties of your material. You should be able
to determine the grain direction along the proposed cut line and you
should be able to see if you are dealing with reaction wood, rather
than mild stock.

I like to feed wood into the ripping blade with the same attention to
grain direction and slope as I would use with when feeding the
thicknesser or the jointer.

By being mindful of this you can eliminate the production of pointy-
sticks-headed-towards-your-nether-regions to a great degree, as well
as keeping at bay the explosive surprises contained within some highly
figured and interlocked-grained woods.


Don't Be Stupid:

If a piece breaks off between the blade and the fence - shut the saw
down.

If the blade starts to bind on your material, even though you have
taken all of the above precautions - shut the saw down.

If someone walks into your shop while you are ripping, because you
foolishly neglected to lock the doors - shut the saw down.

If the song on the 400hp shop music device is sounding so good to you
that you start to get Happy Feet - shut the saw down.

If you decide that you would like to have the first Pina Colada of the
day in the middle of a rip - shut the saw down.


Remember - Be Like The Pros

Because Pro-made

Is Better Than

Ho-made

and much safer.









Regards,

Tom.

Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:Mi9od.1706

I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to address
Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that speaks
to
open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
what
is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.

Did anyone say rely on a safety devise, It saves your butt when you make a
mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending on
your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not
loose track of what is going on.

If "you" think you may become reliant as a safety device to protect you from
harm, there in lays the problem. How many sane people will repeatedly pull
the trigger on a loaded hand gun aimed at their head with out fear of being
harmed because they know that the gun has a safety? I think a 10 inch saw
blade spinning a t 3800 rpm may have a similar effect of keeping the fear
factor up.

On Sun 21 Nov 2004 01:13:22p, loutent wrote in
:

If I see the wood closing up even slightly, I power the saw down and
put a little wedge or 10 penny on the cut side. This happens a few
times a year, but I don't use it every day like a pro.

I was going to post about how it happens to me more than half the time, but
then I remembered that I got a deal on a load of roughcut red oak tubafors,
which is what I've been using to build the workbench stand and frame some
shop stations. Now that I think about it, just about all the pieces that
immediately bent back in towards the blade were from that batch. That's
what made me so glad to have that homemade splitter. Perhaps it won't
happen so often with the next batch.

Dan

"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
news:Mi9od.1706

I never saw Swingman's original response, so I'll tag on Tom's to
address
Swingman. That's just an absolutely foolish position and one that
speaks
to
open mouth before engaging brain. It is in fact the blind reliance on
what
is purported to be a safety device rather than relying on proper safety.

Did anyone say rely on a safety devise, It saves your butt when you make
a
mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending
on
your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not
loose track of what is going on.




It is what comes out here. Look how often you see phrases like "if you
don't use a splitter you are a fool", or "surely you'll end up with stubs
for fingers if you don't use the super deluxe gadget-device". The advocates
of devices or death clearly see it as the ultimate safety device. My point
is only that your own common sense and knowledge is the ultimate safety
device, and that allowing yourself to feel that you're doing the right thing
just by having that gadget in place is sheer folly. As I mentioned - you
hear more complaints of accidents and near accidents from those with all of
the gadgets than from those without them. There is a greater harm in simply
accepting everything that is posted in a newsgroup or is marketed by a
company and taking refuge in that than there is in what might otherwise seem
to be a more dangerous approach that is guided by knowledge and practiced
awareness.
--

-Mike-

Bull.

"Bob" wrote in message
nk.net...

going without some form of splitter is insane.

Quite true. And the blade guards generally go on just before the OSHA guys
show up and off after they leave.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:42:26 -0500, "Woodchuck"
wrote:

I been watching for awhile and he never uses one? I find on my TS the
splitter can be more of a hassle then benefit. It's just too time
consuming
to keep it set up and straight... but I still use it. For how much longer
I
don't know. Who uses it, and who doesn't, and why?



If you want a good deal on an unused splitter, stop by one of the pro
shops in your area.

They are likely to have a number of them sitting around gathering
dust.

"Leon" wrote in message

mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending
on
your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do not
loose track of what is going on.

Precisely .. Mike seems to imply that "knowledge and practiced awareness"
will always protect you from harm. Yeah, right ... in the ADD generation and
the ones who spawned it ... for sure.

My point all along has been that you can't rely on commodities that are
demonstrably in such short supply these days.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Swingman" wrote in message
...


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:31:58 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

Got a kid just old enough to be in the shop?

Spooky... As I was mulling over Tom's first posting, I scribed your last two
posts in my head. The first one tossing around the notion that if you want
to be a pro you gott'a ditch the (alledged) safety device. The second one is
what would I do if it was my kid in the shop.

Tom Watson wrote in
:

snip

The point is that it is your brain
that must be your primary safety device.

I'll give you a hearty AMEN on that one, Tawm.

And on most of the previous, as well.

Patriarch

"Rick" wrote in
m:

Tom,

Another wonderful work of art. You do have a way with words.

It's funny, how often I find myself forgetting the little simple facts
of life when in the shop ... such as:

Just HOW fast could a piece of wood kick back on me? ( Given your 10"
/3450 RPM saw ... about 102 MPH)

Will it hurt? (Yes, anything and everything in its path)


Thanks for passing along some wonderful wisdom obtained by calculation
and observation.


Well, Rick, some of us can add to that base of knowledge through direct
experience, without the math. Not that that's what I had in mind...

Some folks are visual learners. ;-)

Patriarch

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:40 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a splitter
and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?


Your question is foolish.

It presupposes that I would allow a child to use a saw if they were in
any way less capable of using it safely than an adult.

I would not.



Regards,

Tom.

Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker, ret.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

I can only answer for my three kids and the hundreds at our school, where
there is no splitter on the 50's Unisaw. Nope. But middle school shop
classes don't use it.

The real answer is never let a kid use a tool unsupervised, until you're
convinced they're capable. They convince you at length, not at a session.
There are some who were never allowed use of the tablesaw, because they
couldn't pass the first safety test, that of reaching beyond the blade
without leaning.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a
splitter
and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?

The point, which you have so deftly ignored, is that it is your brain
that must be your primary safety device.

Quite the contrary ... considering some using tools these days, ignoring
any
safety devices is arguably the product of a disengaged brain. You forget
what century you're in? ... there ain't no more shop classes in junior
high
school.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:40 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


So, answer the question. Would you insist that your own kid use a
splitter
and blade guard until they were old enough to make up their own mind?


Your question is foolish.

It is damned foolish to think otherwise.

It presupposes that I would allow a child to use a saw if they were in
any way less capable of using it safely than an adult.

I would not.

I clearly stated "old enough to be in the shop". "Child" is your spin.

It's a perfectly cogent point/question as it speaks directly to the issue,
removes the "pro's don't use them" argument, and illuminates your true
feelings regarding the matter ... providing you answer it honestly, that is.

If you would insist that your kid use these particular safety devices in the
shop, and you don't use them, then there is clearly an issue _other_ than
safety involved.

We already know by accident statistics that a good many folks are just too
damn lazy to avail themselves of safety devices like splitters and blade
guards, and then condescendingly justify it with the macho bull**** that the
"pro's don't do it".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"patrick conroy" wrote in message

Spooky... As I was mulling over Tom's first posting, I scribed your last
two
posts in my head. The first one tossing around the notion that if you want
to be a pro you gott'a ditch the (alledged) safety device.

My point was not that "if you want to be a pro you gott'a ditch the
(alledged) safety device", but was, in fact, spoofing that very
idea/concept.

The second one is
what would I do if it was my kid in the shop.

IMO, the answer to that question speaks volumes as to whether _safety_ is
the real issue in some folk's minds.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"patriarch astDOTnet" patriarch wrote in message
6...
Tom Watson wrote in
:

snip

The point is that it is your brain
that must be your primary safety device.

I'll give you a hearty AMEN on that one, Tawm.

And on most of the previous, as well.

Patriarch

And apparently Tom's brain is primary and perhaps his only safety devise. I
wonder if Tom has ever made a mistake doing something that he has been doing
for years? Have you ever been in a car wreck? Your brain should be a
primary safety device but absolutely not the only one. I will also note
that I DO NOT use a guard but do use a splitter. And yes I know that it
will probably be my fault when I get hurt AGAIN. I am not foolish enough
to think that it will be "if" I get hurt again, I know that it will likely
happen again. It took me 1 year to realize how I was injured as I was not
cutting wood when my accident happened on the TS.

"Battleax" wrote in message ...
"Leon" wrote in message
om...

"Battleax" wrote in message
...

None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen them
used
in any cabinet shop.
In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for
splitters.


I kinda find that hard to believe.
Well it did take me about 25 years to realize the value of a splitter.



If a board I'm ripping starts to close up after the blade I lift it straight
up and toss it into my kindling pile.
It will warp again regardless of how straight you get it with sawing.

That's not exactly the point. When it closes up it could kick back.
The goal of the splitter isn't to save the board, it's to save your
body.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:42:09 GMT, patriarch
wrote:


Well, Rick, some of us can add to that base of knowledge through direct
experience, without the math. Not that that's what I had in mind...

Some folks are visual learners. ;-)

... in some cases more visceral than (just) visual :-)

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
m...
"Battleax" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message
om...

"Battleax" wrote in message
...

None of the table saws in my shop have splitters, I've never seen
them
used
in any cabinet shop.
In all my 37 years of cabinet making I've never found a use for
splitters.


I kinda find that hard to believe.
Well it did take me about 25 years to realize the value of a splitter.



If a board I'm ripping starts to close up after the blade I lift it
straight
up and toss it into my kindling pile.
It will warp again regardless of how straight you get it with sawing.

That's not exactly the point. When it closes up it could kick back.
The goal of the splitter isn't to save the board, it's to save your
body.

He didn't suggest that the goal was to save the board, he was saying that he
uses a different technique to mitigate the risk of kickback - he chucks the
bad wood.
--

-Mike-

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 06:25:24 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


enough to convince me that he is operating at a diminished capacity.



OK Swing, you've made me change my mind.

For those who present the sort of cognitive deficit evidenced by your
poor reading comprehension skills, I would suggest the following as
appropriate safety gear for any work in the shop.



http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Tom Watson wrote:

For those who present the sort of cognitive deficit evidenced by your
poor reading comprehension skills, I would suggest the following as
appropriate safety gear for any work in the shop.



http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg

No dust mask. Heheh

-- Mark

"Tom Watson" wrote in message

"Swingman" wrote:

OK Swing, you've made me change my mind.

For those who present the sort of cognitive deficit evidenced by your
poor reading comprehension skills, I would suggest the following as
appropriate safety gear for any work in the shop.

A perfect damned ad hominen example ... of the pot calling the kettle black!

http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg

So, what's a picture of a modern day bull rider got to do with it?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Tom,
great post! The point about keeping the wood ON the saw and AGAINST
the fence is one of the main reasons I remove the splitter most of the
time. I get much more leverage by having the blade just above the
workpiece so I can have a push block that rides over the blade if
necessary for narrow cuts rather than struggling with how to push
through that last little bit of projectile that got hung up between
the blade and the fence. For wider cuts I use roller hold downs that
are anti-kickback devices and these work well if the blade isn't
lifting the workpiece and twisting it out of the grip of the roller,
again, the long push block helps this situation. Both of these
situations are worsened by the commercial splitter/blade guard.

If wood is going to close down it will start closing down immediately
after it leaves the blade and is going to pinch the blade anyway even
with a splitter. The worse case scenario is if the wood closes down
enough to hit the leading edge of the splitter that is several inches
behind the blade. It seems to me that a splitter, to be useful on the
gnarly wood that tends to close down quickly, is only useful if the
splitter is slightly less than the thickness of the cut AND is
positioned immediately behind the blade. A splitter that meets this
requirement would need to be repositioned based on the blade height -
a very complicated mechanism and one that is either unreliable or very
expensive.

I do use the splitter/guard for some cuts. When I am cutting wood
that is splintery (like plywood) or lots of dust, like MDF, then I use
the guard to keep the little 'bits' from flying all over the place. I
also use it when I am ripping long boards (where I am positioned
relatively far from the saw) simply because I am not comfortable to
have the blade running 'free' when I am not near enough to prevent
something from striking it - I'll admit that this might be less
logical but it reduces my fear, which, as you aptly point out, is
debilitating. But, again, I am using it as a guard, not a splitter in
this case.

For me, the best safety devices, besides the brain, are the
anti-kickback rollers, the push block, and featherboard.

No matter how you slice it (no excuse for the pun) a TS is a dangerous
piece of equipment that requires careful and knowledgeable practices
to use it safely. Reliance on safety devices that don't improve
safety but provide over confidence is more risky IMO.

TWS

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:14:35 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

...Perfect...


Thank You!



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:14:35 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

...Perfect...


Thank You!



Regards,
Tom.

Hell, as long as we're completely ignoring context, I am glad you finally
agree.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:33:18 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:14:35 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

...Perfect...


Thank You!



Regards,
Tom.

Hell, as long as we're completely ignoring context, I am glad you finally
agree.
g
I'm glad that you two finally agree on this matter.
TWS

Tom Watson wrote:

... he should do all of his cutting this way
until he is used to how the saw and the wood react.

When he gets used to cutting, his fear will leave him - but his
respect should remain.

Also, it's a good idea to learn to use the tablesaw drunk. That way,
when you're sober, it feels no more dangerous than watching
television.

Ken Muldrew

(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

"TWS" wrote in message

I'm glad that you two finally agree on this matter.

LOL!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Hey Swingman

For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're included in
other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went out
to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments in
reply to questions or points you raised...

At one point I said...

In short - when I allowed my kids to use the power tools it was only
after
they had worked for a long time with me in the shop.

And then you said...

Without safety devices like splitters and blade guard? Answer the question
... do you insist that your children use such safety devices on the table
saw?

To which I say...

Correct - without safety devices like splitters and blade guards. Like I
said
early on in this discussion, my saws never had them. No - I do not insist
they use
these devices. They wouldn't get any work done if I did. They do however
know
to watch for the things that cause kickback etc. They know how to use the
tools.
The tools are still dangerous, but they know how to use them and they
exercise great
caution. Beyond that I can't guarntee no accidents. The best I can do is
educate them
and instill good practices. Fortunately, they follow those.

Then, at another point you said...

"Leon" wrote in message

mistake "most of the time". Anyway, while your brain is the best safety
devise, the safety devise on your tools are more reliable than depending
on
your brain all the time. We as human beings can become side tracked or
loose attention. Safety devices regardless of how lame they may be do
not
loose track of what is going on.

Precisely .. Mike seems to imply that "knowledge and practiced awareness"
will always protect you from harm. Yeah, right ... in the ADD generation
and
the ones who spawned it ... for sure.

Well, nothing protects you from harm all of the time. I do advocate
knowledge and
practiced awareness over blind reliance on "safety" devices though. As I've
said repeatedly, I'd never suggest someone should not use a splitter, or a
guard, or
any other device. In fact, I've never said I would never use one. I'm
interested in
something that will actually work on a saw and I look into these frequently.
Most of
what I've seen though is more gadgety than useful. What I do think is
outright foolish
is exactly what I referenced before - blind reliance on these things. A
reliance that
breeds statements like "not using a splitter is just stupid". Statements
like that only
reflect that the speaker does not understand much at all about the way table
saws
have been used for decades, but is suddenly an expert because of what he
reads
in a newsgroup. That type of person is more dangerous than my 10" saw with
no
guard. You've got to admit - those comments are frequent here.

My point all along has been that you can't rely on commodities that are
demonstrably in such short supply these days.

Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest in
understanding
one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the general
availability
of common sense.

--

-Mike-

"Leon" wrote in message
om...

And apparently Tom's brain is primary and perhaps his only safety devise.
I
wonder if Tom has ever made a mistake doing something that he has been
doing
for years? Have you ever been in a car wreck? Your brain should be a
primary safety device but absolutely not the only one.

One of the things that I haven't seen mentioned is acknowledgement of the
fact that brains and nervous systems and muscle reactions are subject to
deterioration with age. The last people to acknowledge it and recognize it
are those that are in their 50's or later (I'm there). I ran naked without
a guard and splitter for a while. I liked the freedom and total view it
gave me of what was happening. I liked having the crappy factory
guard/splitter out of the way. I also noted that my number of "near misses"
was going up. One day, my right hand involuntarily flinched while holding a
push stick and tossed the push stick onto the top of the running table saw
blade, while my son-in-law was watching. I felt like an idiot. It was time
to acknowledge I needed some help, but quitting woodworking was not my
answer. I may have gone overboard but I have not had any near misses since
doing a few things - GripTite magnetic featherboards with steel fence,
GRRrippers, and small splitter installed on every zero-tolerance insert.
Funny thing - quality and consistency of my cuts went up - probably because
I was working much more confidently and able to raise my skill level.

I'm not a seasoned pro. In fact I think being a pro is not a testament to a
person's particular woodworking skill and knowledge, but more a testament to
their ability to run a business and make a living with it. I'll leave it to
the pros to argue this issue further.

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
ink.net...

One of the things that I haven't seen mentioned is acknowledgement of the
fact that brains and nervous systems and muscle reactions are subject to
deterioration with age. The last people to acknowledge it and recognize
it
are those that are in their 50's or later (I'm there).

Exactly, no one is perfect and exempt from making a tragic mistake. NO ONE.

Snip


GripTite magnetic featherboards with steel fence,

I tried that system about 4 years ago, I did not like the set up and
especially did not like the steel fence. I do use the Bench Dog feather
boards on occasion when ripping narrow pieces.

GRRrippers, and small splitter installed on every zero-tolerance insert.

I use the green splitter in the zero clearance insert.

Funny thing - quality and consistency of my cuts went up - probably
because
I was working much more confidently and able to raise my skill level.

That and IMHO the splitter keeps the wood away from the blade if it bows at
all during the cut resulting in a cleaner cut. If I purchase s4s I see
little difference but it makes a great difference when using s3s.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
Hey Swingman

For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're included
in
other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went out
to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments in
reply to questions or points you raised...

I can't understand why? ... must be the manifestation of that paranoia of
mine from getting old(er).

Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest
in
understanding
one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the
general
availability
of common sense.

I am glad that you recognize that, Mike ... and I respect both your actions
with regard to the splitters and the reasons for that action. You've
obviously given the issue some thought.

I never once advocated that any answer to my question would necessarily be
correct, just that honestly answering it would get at the underlying reason
of why folks either use, or do not use, a device like a splitter.

Some folks obviously don't like to look that deep into the reasons for what
they do, or worse, advocate what other's do.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:00:52 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:


http://www.febeltex.be/persfoto's/crackjac.jpg

At least the crotch area is covered.

Barry

Splitter

IMHO, it is task specific.

Certain ripping jobs I do would be very difficult without it.

OTOH, it is kept out of the way most of the time because it can be a real
PITA.

YMMV

Lew

"Swingman" wrote in message
news
My point was not that "if you want to be a pro you gott'a ditch the
(alledged) safety device", but was, in fact, spoofing that very
idea/concept.


Anybody can be a pro, not every one can be an expert.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
Hey Swingman

For some reason, I'm not seeing any of your posts unless they're
included
in
other people's comments. Honest - I don't have you kf'd. I just went
out
to Google and saw a bunch of your posts so here's a couple of comments
in
reply to questions or points you raised...

I can't understand why? ... must be the manifestation of that paranoia of
mine from getting old(er).

Our positions are not so very far apart. Mine is that one should invest
in
understanding
one's environment. Yours does not deny this. We both question the
general
availability
of common sense.

I am glad that you recognize that, Mike ... and I respect both your
actions
with regard to the splitters and the reasons for that action. You've
obviously given the issue some thought.

I never once advocated that any answer to my question would necessarily be
correct, just that honestly answering it would get at the underlying
reason
of why folks either use, or do not use, a device like a splitter.

Some folks obviously don't like to look that deep into the reasons for
what
they do, or worse, advocate what other's do.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04



Hey - you made it through Earthlink this time! Something has really been
boogering up usenet for the past couple of days.

--

-Mike-