In article , Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

If the Mounties raid your shop thinking it's a marijuana grow
operation, you might have too much light in the shop.

Wasn't that the EPA and an oak-fuming op?

;-)

Prometheus wrote:
Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
the ones attached to something solid.


Mine are hanging on chains. They only hum when they're first turned on and
continue to hum for a while if it's really cold out there. Once they've warmed
up, the hum goes away. Truthfully, I'm only aware of the hum when I first turn
them on in the winter months.

Trust me, my lights are as cheap as they come: double four foot fixtures for
about $7.50 each. Plenty bright if you get enough of them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
Mike:
Can there ever be too much light in a shop?


No.

UA100

Acktually, I disagree. Once upon a time I needed to weld an axle back on a
trolley, whilst doing so my face shield came off.

Trust me on this - too much light is not a good thing.

--
Greg

On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, xx (Mike) wrote:

Hi All,

My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
door.

I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?

TIA for any opinions.

Mike

The machine shop where I work had a surplus in our maintenance budget many years
ago. Our then-general manager took it upon himself to 'upgrade' the lighting in
the building, which was in excess of 20,000 sq. ft. The former lighting was
continuous rows of 2-lite 8ft. flourescents spaced about 6 feet apart on the 13
foot high ceiling He directed the electricians to add more rows between the
existing ones, yielding rows 3 ft. apart. The machine operators all wear
baseball caps indoors now to shield their eyes from the glare. Our shop is
located across the street from the local electrical supply store, and the owner,
who I must say had to be thankful for our 'upgrade', said, "Geeze! Why didn't
you just take the roof off the building?"
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
than to buy new ones.

Tom Flyer

--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
than to buy new ones.


Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. G



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...
--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent
tubes
than to buy new ones.


Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. G


I'm not up to date on the new regulations, but there are regulations for
disposal. The lamps contain heavy metal and should not just be trashed.
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste...i/merc-emi.htm
http://www.mercvt.org/dispose/lamps.htm

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:



"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...
--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent
tubes
than to buy new ones.


Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. G


I'm not up to date on the new regulations, but there are regulations for
disposal. The lamps contain heavy metal and should not just be trashed.
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste...i/merc-emi.htm
http://www.mercvt.org/dispose/lamps.htm

If you read the EPA rule you'll find, first, that if you generate less than
100 kg of regulated waste of the category in which fluorescent lamps fall
per month you're not subject to the regulations and can just send it to the
landfill, and second, that only lamps that fail the "TCLP" test are
regulated. Fluorescents that pass that test are marked with green
endcaps--the Phillips "Alto" brand was the first but I believe there are
others.

The Vermont regulations referenced in the second item are more stringent
than the Federal, and miss the point which is that by encouraging the use
of low-mercury fluorescent lights environmental mercury can be reduced by
reducing power consumption and thus mercury release at power plants--at
least that seems to have been the EPA's reasoning. By having unreasonable
disposal requirements Vermont discourages the use of energy-efficient
lighting.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On 15 Oct 2004 17:30:21 GMT, xx (Mike) wrote:

Thanks for all the input. I found it very useful. I will plan on at least 2
switches for the flourescents and I think I'll add some incandescent fixtures
as well. Maybe center the incandescents over the benches and some of the
machinery. Since SWMBO is buying, I will go for the daylight lamps as well.

Thanks again,

Mike
I'm guess that you're installing them flush or maybe recessed?
If so, that makes a difference on how much light you throw and where
you throw it...
Also, if you use plastic deflectors (I threw mine away), they cut the
light considerably..

I still hang all my fixtures when I can.. I like to put them up sort
of temporarily, and do a project or two... they get moved a lot for a
while.. lol

Mortimer Schnerd, RN said:

--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
than to buy new ones.


Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. G

Err... They contain mercury and phosphors that are bad for you and
the ground water. This is one reason that T-8 bulbs are being
required in commercial establishments. They use less power for
equivalent light, and have reduced mercury and phosphor content.
Electronic ballasts, and 0 degree starting temps are added benefits.

FWIW,

Greg G.

On 15 Oct 2004 18:33:08 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

I have incandecents on a motion detector and flourecents on switches. That way
if you are just walking in to pick up something or drop something off with your
arms full, the lights will come on.

GREAT idea!!! my normal garage light switch is in the family room, and
I usually enter the shop through the garage door... meaning a bit of
stumbling to find a switch in the middle of the garage...

I have a sensor and will add it (and a 60w bulb) today... THANKS!!

We do and will continue to do so.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:nJbcd.10054$
I'm not up to date on the new regulations, but there are regulations for
disposal. The lamps contain heavy metal and should not just be trashed.
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste...i/merc-emi.htm
http://www.mercvt.org/dispose/lamps.htm

"CW" no adddress@spam free.com wrote in message
...
We do and will continue to do so.


Most of us do.

As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
clean it up.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"CW" no adddress@spam free.com wrote in message
...
We do and will continue to do so.


Most of us do.

As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
clean it up.

I remember vividly a kid in my chemistry class swallowing a blob of mercury.
The teacher didn't think it was anything to worry about (she had been
involved in the Manhattan Project--she knew her stuff--wasn't ignorance).
With him it was kind of hard to tell whether it had any effect--this was
the '60s and the '60s were _very_ good to him.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

If you are still in the layout stage I would suggest you install a few
switched outlets on the ceiling. It will be easier to do now before
everything is in place. These can be used later for either adding light
fixtures or drop down cords for machinery. I have one in the center of
the work area that I have a pull out extension cord hooked up to. It is
on it's own circuit breaker. Far better to have unused outlets than
needing more. You can never have too much light (this from a 57 year old
who needs more each year!).
Bruce
Mike wrote:
Thanks for all the input. I found it very useful. I will plan on at least 2
switches for the flourescents and I think I'll add some incandescent fixtures
as well. Maybe center the incandescents over the benches and some of the
machinery. Since SWMBO is buying, I will go for the daylight lamps as well.

Thanks again,

Mike

On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, xx (Mike) wrote:

Hi All,

My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
door.

I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?

TIA for any opinions.

Mike


Only when the wood starts to smoke...
Also Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:21:55 -0400, "J. Clarke"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I remember vividly a kid in my chemistry class swallowing a blob of mercury.
The teacher didn't think it was anything to worry about (she had been
involved in the Manhattan Project--she knew her stuff--wasn't ignorance).

No. Just such a lofty idea of what "mattered" that little mercury was
drop in the ocean! G

I can remember my old man (worked in a lab) giving me a bottle of
mercury to play with...silvering mirrors, making little switches and
such for fun. Little worry or warning. But then we had teachers who
used to drop sodium in water while we all stood and watched (no
glasses), and dry white phosphorus in the sun on the verandah outside
the classroom....those were the days.
************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

"Greg Millen" wrote in message
news:1097924395.BossotZwdFww5yYSKazEeA@teranews...

trolley, whilst doing so my face shield came off.

"whilst"???

Showing off that edukashun again?

"whilst"???

Showing off that edukashun again?

I think "whilst" is one of those words that sadly is no longer used much in the
US. Along with the likes of "shan't", "mustn't", and "whence."

GTO(John)

This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.

--
Greg


"patrick conroy" wrote in message
...

"Greg Millen" wrote in message
news:1097924395.BossotZwdFww5yYSKazEeA@teranews...

trolley, whilst doing so my face shield came off.

"whilst"???

Showing off that edukashun again?

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:27:11 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
than to buy new ones.


Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. G

I don't remember exactly which regulation we have to adhere to, but it's one of
those ISO yada yada
government-mandated-if-you-want-work-you-gotta-follow-our-rules things.
ISO14000, ISO14001...whatever.
The lamps are on 24/6 and every week there's a new crop of dead tubes in the
storage rack. The guy that comes to pick them up always has a
cat-that-ate-the-canary look on his face, plus the electricians, who are under
contract to us have bought new trucks the past three years.
I'm in the wrong line of work -

Tom Flyer

In article 1097998638.cmYh3z+dpghacVhUsouM9w@teranews,
Greg Millen wrote:
This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.


As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Greg Millen wrote:
This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.


As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda


As in Mulga Bill, another of Paterson's fa

http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/author...ry/mulgab.html

I think we'll have to admit defeat if you trundle ebonics into the fray
though.

--

Greg

Yep. I remember that. Strange how many things will kill the modern person.
We were tougher back then

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"CW" no adddress@spam free.com wrote in message
...
We do and will continue to do so.


Most of us do.

As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
clean it up.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:06:31 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"CW" no adddress@spam free.com wrote in message
...
We do and will continue to do so.


Most of us do.

As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
clean it up.

I was raised in the sign business... I remember my dad's helper
cutting his finger on a piece of broken neon and being treated for
mercury poisoning... it wasn't pretty and gave me a lot of
respect/fear of breaking any kinda glass tubes..

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:37:09 +1000, "Greg Millen"
wrote:

This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.

well, at least you keep your sense of humour about it...

Why not have all the light you can afford, want, and pay for. Were only
going this way once....Dan




"Mike" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
door.

I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?

TIA for any opinions.

Mike

In article ,
Greg Millen wrote:
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Greg Millen wrote:
This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.


As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda


As in Mulga Bill, another of Paterson's fa

http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/author...ry/mulgab.html

Ah. I knew some of those works, didn't know the author.

I really want to find somebody that speaks fluent jabberwocky. Not the
(in)famous poem, but the Aussie rhyming slang.


I think we'll have to admit defeat if you trundle ebonics into the fray
though.


Obviously, you're not familiar with the dialectizer.
http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/

Use several of the translations in series -- e.g. a "jive-speaking Cockney
Swedish Chef" -- and things get *incredibly* obfuscated.

"Dan Jefferson" wrote in message ...
Why not have all the light you can afford, want, and pay for. Were only
going this way once....Dan




Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.

Dan

On 17 Oct 2004 21:46:31 -0700, (Dan Cullimore)
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.

Why? No ******* ever did it for you! Look at the mess we are headed
into already! Except Ralph Nader and his ilk, and see what most people
think of _them_.
************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

Old Nick wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 21:46:31 -0700, (Dan Cullimore)
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.

Why? No ******* ever did it for you! Look at the mess we are headed
into already! Except Ralph Nader and his ilk, and see what most people
think of _them_.

It's all going to run out eventually. Alternatives exist, when they become
cost-effective (i.e. the price of what we use now goes high enough) they'll
be used. There's a lot of technology that sits on the shelf because the
greenies have us too chicken to use it. When we're freezing to death in
the dark see how long it takes to tell the greenies to either light us a
fire or go pound sand.

************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:53:05 +0000, Robert Bonomi
wrote:
In article 1097998638.cmYh3z+dpghacVhUsouM9w@teranews,
Greg Millen wrote:
This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.


As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda


You know you can sing Ave Maria to the tune of Waltzing Matilda?

On 17 Oct 2004 21:46:31 -0700, (Dan Cullimore)
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Few less kids and grandkids, and we would all have a lot less to worry
about....

Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.

Dan

************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

In article KjPcd.2909$WN5.1650@trndny08,
U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:53:05 +0000, Robert Bonomi
wrote:
In article 1097998638.cmYh3z+dpghacVhUsouM9w@teranews,
Greg Millen wrote:
This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".

We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.

Give us time and we'll manage to *******ise the language almost as well as
you g.


As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda


You know you can sing Ave Maria to the tune of Waltzing Matilda?


My taste in music isn't quite _that_ catholic.


Now, "Harvey and Sheila", on the other hand....

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:45:05 -0400, "Gary"
wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
door.

I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?

TIA for any opinions.

Mike

My electrician's rule of thumb is a double fluorescent light covers a
space
6 feet to each side, so I think six would be adequate if you ran two rows
parallel to the 25' wall, 6 and 1/2 feet from the walls and 12 feet
apart.
He install 4 double eight footers in my shop of 20'X24' and it is quite
adequate. The rest of the building, a 28X36 foot garage has 3 rows of 3
eight foot lights.
He installed cold start ballasts which is a very good thing in an
unheated
building, but they are very noisy as heck, which is a very bad thing.
The
hum drives me nuts!

Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
the ones attached to something solid.

Gary



Mine are hard mounted to the ceiling joists.

Gary

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...
Prometheus wrote:
Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
the ones attached to something solid.


Mine are hanging on chains. They only hum when they're first turned on
and
continue to hum for a while if it's really cold out there. Once they've
warmed
up, the hum goes away. Truthfully, I'm only aware of the hum when I first
turn
them on in the winter months.

Trust me, my lights are as cheap as they come: double four foot fixtures
for
about $7.50 each. Plenty bright if you get enough of them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com


Mine are double 8' cold start fixtures. They never stop humming (I suppose
I should teach the the words). I can't stand it. Every time I go into my
shop I have to turn on a radio or the tv to drown out that gawd-awful sound.

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
In article ,
I really want to find somebody that speaks fluent jabberwocky. Not the
(in)famous poem, but the Aussie rhyming slang.



A lot of us speak "strine", one of the most active would be Phil Laird. What
were you hoping to learn?

cheers,

Greg