Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?

--
¨£Ö£¨

On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out

On 06/01/2020 05:17, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?

I don't recall seeing anyone drive with the boot lid open, though I
can't think of any particular reason why it would be illegal, whether in
the UK or the USA, as long as there were at least two mirrors whose use
was not restricted by the boot lid. The rear view would be just as good
as that from a bus, van or truck.

But the last time I was in Texas, I do remember seeing a car on the
freeway with those long, aggressive, hub/axle extensions which are so
reminiscent of the charit race in the 1959 "Ben Hur".

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 11:17:04 PM UTC-6, Chaz of Canterbury wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

You can't install them, as they don't fit correctly, on horses.

Sonny

"Chaz of Canterbury" wrote in message ...

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell these Ben Hur
death-chariot wheels are legal on Texas motorways?

It's a "black thing" that White folks wouldn't understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?

To interfere would be "racist"...

On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots. They have trunks.

Do the constables simply look the other way?

On 06/01/2020 21:54, Just Wondering wrote:
American cars don't have boots.Â* They have trunks.

and they drive on the pavement.

Tone

On 1/6/2020 2:56 PM, Byker wrote:
"Chaz of Canterbury"Â* wrote in message
...

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell these Ben Hur
death-chariot wheels are legal on Texas motorways?

It's a "black thing" that White folks wouldn't understand.


....and never will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?

To interfere would be "racist"...

Exactly.

On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.Â* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

On 06/01/2020 21:54, Just Wondering wrote:
American cars don't have boots.* They have trunks.

and they drive on the pavement.

Tone

The wrong way. And all their light switches are upside down

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 2020-01-06 3:41 p.m., Hawk wrote:
On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.Â* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

my trunk hangs above my boots

"Hawk" wrote in message ...

On 1/6/2020 2:56 PM, Byker wrote:

It's a "black thing" that White folks wouldn't understand.


...and never will.

No need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:59:33 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 3:41 p.m., Hawk wrote:
On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

my trunk hangs above my boots

Okay

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:26:12 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

"Hawk" wrote in message ...

On 1/6/2020 2:56 PM, Byker wrote:

It's a "black thing" that White folks wouldn't understand.


...and never will.

No need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

Now, if the chimp can figure out how to load it . . .

On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 20:45:26 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:26:12 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

"Hawk" wrote in message ...

On 1/6/2020 2:56 PM, Byker wrote:

It's a "black thing" that White folks wouldn't understand.


...and never will.

No need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

Now, if the chimp can figure out how to load it . . .

Okay trimmed the headers it is not going to

uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.sheds,
soc.culture.african.american,alt.checkmate

anymore

On 2020-01-06 6:40 p.m., The Right And The Powerful wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:59:33 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 3:41 p.m., Hawk wrote:
On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.Â* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

my trunk hangs above my boots

Okay

now you wanna see my junk , i knew it

On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 21:06:11 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 20:45:26 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:26:12 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

"Hawk" wrote in message ...

On 1/6/2020 2:56 PM, Byker wrote:

It's a "black thing" that White folks wouldn't understand.


...and never will.

No need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

Now, if the chimp can figure out how to load it . . .

Okay trimmed the headers it is not going to

I was surprised that the chimp hung onto it after he figured out how
to shoot it.

uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.sheds,
soc.culture.african.american,alt.checkmate

anymore

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 20:07:07 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 6:40 p.m., The Right And The Powerful wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:59:33 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 3:41 p.m., Hawk wrote:
On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

my trunk hangs above my boots

Okay

now you wanna see my junk , i knew it

So

On 2020-01-06 8:44 p.m., The Right And The Powerful wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 20:07:07 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 6:40 p.m., The Right And The Powerful wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:59:33 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 3:41 p.m., Hawk wrote:
On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.Â* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

my trunk hangs above my boots

Okay

now you wanna see my junk , i knew it

So

i know

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo
Ontario law prohibits :
Any BODY section has exposed sharp edge, is torn or protrudes out in a
manner that could be hazardous to driver,passenger, pedestrian or
cyclist.
Any TRIM protrudes or has exposed sharp edge, or is torn in a manner
that could be hazardous to driver, passenger, pedestrian or cyclist

Any Device or Equipment Attached or Mounted to the Vehicle
has an exposed sharp edge, is torn or protrudes out in a manner that
could be hazardous to the driver, a passenger, pedestrian or cyclist

Any WHEEL wheel / rim has been welded or repaired in a way that does
not meet industry standard

So no, they would NOT be legal in Ontario - the car woulf be removed
from the road and in all likelihood the wheels would be confiscated.

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968; the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.

On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?

I thought it was that 007 bloke who drove a car with those sorts of
spinners, around jolly ol'.

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:59:33 -0700, % wrote:

On 2020-01-06 3:41 p.m., Hawk wrote:
On 1/6/2020 4:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/5/2020 10:17 PM, (Chaz of Canterbury) wrote:
Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Looks to me like they're just for show, they wouldn't last an
hour in a parking lot.

Driving with the boot lid open as well?

American cars don't have boots.* They have trunks.



But I do keep boots in my trunk.

my trunk hangs above my boots

You must be one of those racist Republicans.

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

"This section does not apply to—
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.

On 1/7/2020 11:01 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.


Well, that's only due to the fact that "that which is not prohibited by
law, is permitted."

IOW everything is legal to do until a law is passed to the contrary.

In this case, it would seem that even if those chariot knives or
whatever the f**k the morons placing them on their cars call them, are
illegal equipment on a car being sold by General Motors, the language of
the act, again quoted below, specifically excludes, subsequent sellers.

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

Further, nothing in the federal law appears to prohibit the use of the
various items only prohibits the manufacturers from including them or
mandates them to be included.

The state laws handle that, if they so choose.

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.


"tends to indicate"

That's a pretty strong argument. Akin to...

might, maybe
kind of, sort of

It's illegal to sell homemade wine, but you can use it
It's illegal to sell a counterfeit handbag, but you can use it

The law related to the selling of a product doesn't automatically make
(or even indicate) its use illegal. There would need to be specific law governing the product's use.

Clare Snyder wrote:

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Well yeahbut, but, but, ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oncY6GKwjt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FlBc-0QvSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI71up9UPmM

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 00:01:36 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

You argued that modifications are illegal. Not the selling of
modified vehicles but the modifications themselves. Now you seem to
be trying to move the goalposts.

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap.

It is? Show us the statute which says that it is unlawful to sell,
say, a winged knockoff hub.

Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.

This is the United States, where anything that is not specifically
prohibited is legal. This is a basic premise of legal systems derived
from the English legal system. You might be happier moving to Russia
or some other authoritarian country where the opposite is the case.

However, getting back to cars, the statute defines a "motor vehicle"
as "a vehicle driven or drawn by mechanical power and manufactured
primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways,". If the
part has some use on something other than such a vehicle, then it is
up to the government to fight the uphill battle of proving that it is
"motor vehicle equipment".

By your logic racing cars and museum pieces would be banned.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 04:34:46 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

"This section does not apply to—
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.


"tends to indicate"

That's a pretty strong argument. Akin to...

might, maybe
kind of, sort of

It's illegal to sell homemade wine, but you can use it
It's illegal to sell a counterfeit handbag, but you can use it

The law related to the selling of a product doesn't automatically make
(or even indicate) its use illegal. There would need to be specific law governing the product's use.
Wll here in Ontario you can't sell a vehicle with them on it as a
roadworthy vehicle, and if you get caught with them on the road you
WILL be charged. Furthermore if you get involved in an eccident where
property damage or bodilly harm results from their presence you WILL
face severe penalties - like assault with a dangerous weapon, or
dangerous vehicle operation, or quite possibly dangerous or careless
driving. The officer will throw enough charges to be sure at least one
will stick

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 19:08:28 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 00:01:36 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

You argued that modifications are illegal. Not the selling of
modified vehicles but the modifications themselves. Now you seem to
be trying to move the goalposts.

"This section does not apply to—
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap.

It is? Show us the statute which says that it is unlawful to sell,
say, a winged knockoff hub.

Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.

This is the United States, where anything that is not specifically
prohibited is legal. This is a basic premise of legal systems derived
from the English legal system. You might be happier moving to Russia
or some other authoritarian country where the opposite is the case.

However, getting back to cars, the statute defines a "motor vehicle"
as "a vehicle driven or drawn by mechanical power and manufactured
primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways,". If the
part has some use on something other than such a vehicle, then it is
up to the government to fight the uphill battle of proving that it is
"motor vehicle equipment".

By your logic racing cars and museum pieces would be banned.
There is a reason most of that stuff is clearly labellled "for
offroad use only".

It can be sold - but NOT for on-road use.

What happens if you get caught driving with non - DOT drag slicks on
the street????

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 21:08:43 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 19:08:28 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 00:01:36 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

You argued that modifications are illegal. Not the selling of
modified vehicles but the modifications themselves. Now you seem to
be trying to move the goalposts.

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap.

It is? Show us the statute which says that it is unlawful to sell,
say, a winged knockoff hub.

Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.

This is the United States, where anything that is not specifically
prohibited is legal. This is a basic premise of legal systems derived
from the English legal system. You might be happier moving to Russia
or some other authoritarian country where the opposite is the case.

However, getting back to cars, the statute defines a "motor vehicle"
as "a vehicle driven or drawn by mechanical power and manufactured
primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways,". If the
part has some use on something other than such a vehicle, then it is
up to the government to fight the uphill battle of proving that it is
"motor vehicle equipment".

By your logic racing cars and museum pieces would be banned.
There is a reason most of that stuff is clearly labellled "for
offroad use only".

It can be sold - but NOT for on-road use.

What happens if you get caught driving with non - DOT drag slicks on
the street????

In what jurisdiction? Each state has its own laws and its own
penalties. The one thing that you can count on _not_ happening is the
Federal government getting involved--that will only happen if you're
on Federal property when you get caught.

In CT, if the tires are not "approved by the commissioner" it's an
infraction with no penalty the first time and a fine of not more than
$200 for the second and later.

In MA, I can't find anything about getting caught driving on them--if
you have them "with intent to sell" then it's a $50 fine, if you have
them on the car when it's inspected it fails inspection and they have
to be replaced on the spot or the car has to be trailered to wherever
the tires will be replaced.

I don't really feel like digging through the statutes for the other 48
states.

On Wed, 08 Jan 2020 21:05:31 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 04:34:46 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.


"tends to indicate"

That's a pretty strong argument. Akin to...

might, maybe
kind of, sort of

It's illegal to sell homemade wine, but you can use it
It's illegal to sell a counterfeit handbag, but you can use it

The law related to the selling of a product doesn't automatically make
(or even indicate) its use illegal. There would need to be specific law governing the product's use.
Wll here in Ontario you can't sell a vehicle with them on it as a
roadworthy vehicle, and if you get caught with them on the road you
WILL be charged. Furthermore if you get involved in an eccident where
property damage or bodilly harm results from their presence you WILL
face severe penalties - like assault with a dangerous weapon, or
dangerous vehicle operation, or quite possibly dangerous or careless
driving. The officer will throw enough charges to be sure at least one
will stick

So WHAT? Ontario, in case you missed the memo, is not now, and has
never been part of the United States of America, so anything that goes
on there has no relevance whatsoever to the laws of the United States
of America.

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:05:39 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 04:34:46 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:09:29 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:46:13 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 15:59:16 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 18:27:43 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jan 2020 08:48:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 1/6/2020 12:06 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:17:02 +0000, (Chaz of
Canterbury) wrote:

Could you blokes explain to me how the bloody hell
these Ben Hur death-chariot wheels are legal on
Texas motorways?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIjMgDHFFgk

Driving with the boot lid open as well?
Do the constables simply look the other way?
Show vehicle only - only on the show grounds. Boot lid open would not
be an issue on the highway if nothing loose to come out


No, these vehicles with these wheels exist on the roads and freeways in
Houston.
Placarded for over-width???
Definitely illegal.
Defionitely unsafe

They _appear_ to be legal IF the car doesn't exceed 8ft width.

https://abc13.com/archive/7699639/

https://www.khou.com/article/news/exaggerated-tire-rims-swangers-are-they-legal/285-567542949

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLRVdADj8Og
a PH.D gives the history:

difference between 83's & 84's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZbb_R18OIo






FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) outlawed any wheels or
wheel covers with "winged projections" for 1968; that particular
regulation was included in the FMVSS revisions due to Ralph Nader's
efforts. That's why GM released special hex nuts and a special wrench
as service replacements for KO wheel spinners - it was illegal to sell
the original spinners after 1968;

What GM vehicle ever came with knock-off hubs?

The 'Vette, for one. and fake knockoffs were pretty common in the
fifties and sixties
the same thing happened to all
service replacement wheel covers that originally included spinners -
the service replacements were sold with no spinner - just a round
emblem that attached to the center of the cover

According to this many of those Swangers ARE illegal under FEDERAL
Law

Federal motor vehicle standards govern manufacturers of motor
vehicles, not end users. You can call the FBI or the NHTSA or the ICC
or whatever agency you think may have jurisdiction but don't expect
more than a polite brush-off from them.

Modifications that go against federal motor vehicle safety standards
ARE illegal - whether it is enforced, selectively enforced, or not
enforced doesn't change that.

Cite the statute if you believe that.

"Except as provided in this section, sections 30113 and 30114 of this
title, and subchapter III of this chapter, a person may not
manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, introduce or deliver for
introduction in interstate commerce, or import into the United States,
any motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment manufactured on or after
the date an applicable motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under
this chapter takes effect unless the vehicle or equipment complies
with the standard and is covered by a certification issued under
section 30115 of this title."

Note the wording there. They're relying on the Commerce Clause for
their authority--if you aren't selling it it isn't commerce.

So you think those abortions are not sold?????

"This section does not apply to€”
(1)the sale, offer for sale, or introduction or delivery for
introduction in interstate commerce of a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle equipment after the first purchase of the vehicle or equipment
in good faith other than for resale;"

In other words it doesn't apply to the purchaser.
It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it, I know you libertarian yanks and rebs like
to bust every law you can get your minds around - if itisn't
SPECIFICALLY prohibited it's fair game.


"tends to indicate"

That's a pretty strong argument. Akin to...

might, maybe
kind of, sort of

It's illegal to sell homemade wine, but you can use it
It's illegal to sell a counterfeit handbag, but you can use it

The law related to the selling of a product doesn't automatically make
(or even indicate) its use illegal. There would need to be specific law governing the product's use.
Wll here in Ontario you can't sell a vehicle with them on it as a
roadworthy vehicle, and if you get caught with them on the road you
WILL be charged. Furthermore if you get involved in an eccident where
property damage or bodilly harm results from their presence you WILL
face severe penalties - like assault with a dangerous weapon, or
dangerous vehicle operation, or quite possibly dangerous or careless
driving. The officer will throw enough charges to be sure at least one
will stick

You do realize that I wasn't talking about cars, don't you? My response
had nothing to do with cars.

Aren't you going to defend the statement that I replied too?

It's still illegal to sell the crap. Which tends to indicate it is
illegal to buy and use it,

If you can't defend it, then at least admit that you were wrong by saying
it.

Oh, wait... I almost forgot who I was talking to.

On 1/8/2020 8:05 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 04:34:46 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:01:39 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:32:55 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:


[big old snippity snip]



"tends to indicate"

That's a pretty strong argument. Akin to...

might, maybe
kind of, sort of

It's illegal to sell homemade wine, but you can use it
It's illegal to sell a counterfeit handbag, but you can use it

The law related to the selling of a product doesn't automatically make
(or even indicate) its use illegal. There would need to be specific law governing the product's use.
Wll here in Ontario you can't sell a vehicle with them on it as a
roadworthy vehicle, and if you get caught with them on the road you
WILL be charged. Furthermore if you get involved in an eccident where
property damage or bodilly harm results from their presence you WILL
face severe penalties - like assault with a dangerous weapon, or
dangerous vehicle operation, or quite possibly dangerous or careless
driving. The officer will throw enough charges to be sure at least one
will stick


I think that I see the problem. Clare, you do realize what the US -
Canada border represents, do you not?

Your argument is veering dangerously close to something like "If my
hunchbacked brother had a compressor instead of the hump, he might be a
refrigerator."