On 3/8/2021 1:12 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:20 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Jack writes:
On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message.Â* I got my HF
gloves at the old regular price last year.Â* But yeah, looking at
the web
site they have tippled in price.
Have you priced lumber lately?

Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around
$20
a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

What woodworker buys hardwoods from HD or Lowes?Â*Â* Crappy lumber
priced by the linear foot.Â*Â* Much rather buy by the board foot
at a real lumber yard with a much wider (pun intended) selection.


I'm hoping Maple, cherry around $20 a board foot was a type-o.Â* Same
for walnut.
Not a typo, I posted the link to my HD store, did you look?

No, because I thought it was a type-o. m ;~)
Those home centers are expensive but wow I had not checked lately.

Hardwood Products, http://hwp.us/
And Clark's Hardwood Lumber, https://www.clarkshardwood.com/

The prices I mentioned elsewhere in this thread are what I paid about 4
weeks ago for white oak.

I typically do not buy maple or cherry although they do have a large
supply.



I wouldn't mind a link to where you buy your #1 select maple or cherry
for half that price. Not saying I don't believe you but it's interesting
for sure. I myself had NO idea lumber has gotten this expensive.

Yes, the demand, during Covid has gone bonkers. My wife and I went into
contract last September to have a new home built. About 2 weeks after
giving earnest money, signing the contract, and picking all the colors,
and options the builder pulled out of the contract. They claimed that
they could not guarantee the price we agreed up on because of the prices
going up on materials and simply trying to find the materials.
Building in the Houston area is going crazy and new home prices and been
changing weekly some times twice a week.




Does this stuff even grow in Texas?Â* I thought live oak, whatever that
is, is what was growing down there.Â* They used that for boat hulls in
the distant past, to stop canon balls, right.

Live oak is a white Oak in most if not all cases. Whaaat?
there are many types of Oaks that are considered Live Oak.

I believe Live Oak is a bit of a generic term for a tree that is not
considered evergreen but is almost evergreen.
Live Oak trees are called such because they retain their leaves year
round except for a week or two. Leaves, fall when the new leaves come
out in the Spring. Sooooo If you have Live Oak trees in your yard you
rake leaves in April, when they fall. And you do rake them if you
expect your grass to grow. The leaves almost do not break down at all,
they are tough and will blanket your yard all summer long.
Personally I do not like them in my yard. Our builder, 10 years ago,
put Live Oaks in all the new build yards. We yanked ours out
immediately and replaced with Red Oak. Our yard is almost the only yard
that has leaves in the yard in the fall. All other trees in our
neighborhood are just now beginning to show signs of loosing their leaves.





I only got into this because I saw a local guy on YouTube cutting up oak
and cherry for firewood, and he OWNS a nice sawmill... He said he only
mills hardwood 21" and over for lumber. I think he got a zillion folks
telling him he was a fool. He owns a 100 acres of woods, so he has a lot
of raw product for lumber and firewood. He sells firewood, and I'll bet
sooner or later he'll be selling lots of lumber, and little firewood,
and sooner than later..

On 3/9/2021 5:56 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Tue, 09 Mar 2021 04:25:19 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:

like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago. Remember=20
how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember. It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.
It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe.

+1
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/64/04/9f6404b1f059ab934f72c9988b7a15ea--democratic-party-american-presidents.jpg


According to official figures that do _not_ count food stamps or
welfare as income, the poverty rate fell from about 22.5% to 11.2%
between 1959 and 1974.

The trouble is that it hasn't fallen much more since, despite
government spending on poverty programs going from 100 billion in 1974
to over 500 billion in 2011.

Clearly that extra 400 billion isn't going anywhere that actually
helps people and we as a society should be trying to find out why.

Pay people to do nothing, and make them feel good about doing nothing,
and guess what they do?

Welfare is NOT designed to help the needy, it's designed to MAKE people
needy, just as Johnson planned, as noted in the above quote.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 3/9/2021 7:32 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:56 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:52 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html


Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?Â* I might buy one of
those if I needed one.Â* ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with
the time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF
model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction
grade 2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't
afford to do much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

Quite the contrary.Â* As I tell my customers, don't worry about the
materials cost, it is the labor that is expensive.Â* If you want a
premium wood vs. stained red oak, the price difference in the finished
product will not be that much percentage wise.

You mentioned the material cost and time to build one, so you are being
argumentative, with yourself.


Just saying I value my time. If I can buy a premade stand, some
assembly required, over designing, milling/cutting wood, and gluing. I
might go with the steel stand.


I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if
any in this newsgroup.

Well I am not production 100% of the time but still try not to spend
my building time on things that eat into money making time.Â* I get
what you are saying but I would build the stand with furniture grade
materials vs, construction grade materials.Â* I would end up milling
the 2x's stock into 1x.Â* And I would prefer a hardwood vs, spruce,
pine, or fir.

Not to be argumentative, but I personally like the looks of varnished
pine for all my stands and work benches. Furniture grade cabinets in a
workshop just look wrong. I would not want an oak or cherry lathe stand,
or BS stand. Expensive hardwood looks out of place in a shop, to me. The
first thing I built in my shop was a work bench. Made it out of #4 pine
sheathing they sold cheap for roofs. Still looks great 50 years later
and all the drawers work as good as the day I built it. I learned a ton
building it as well, and everything a built subsequently benefited from
doing it.

Perhaps I should have said furniture style stands and cabinets.
Although....
My shop built cabinets are built like the cabinets/furniture in my home.
Just cheaper wood, like paint grade maple oe birch plywood. And
poplar for the solid wood parts. Still Baltic birch 1/2" plywood for
the drawers.

But I did build a tool chest many years ago, early 2000's, out of paint
grade ply and A rustic oak...that I got from a saw mill.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...7622991960362/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...7622991960362/



To each their own I reckon.

Anyway hobbyist like pervade this group are not earning a living with
their shop, they are in it for the enjoyment. From what I read here,
most would benefit a good deal by building their own stuff rather than
buying cheap ass metal junk, and they could enjoy their work forever.

40 years ago this was a hobby. Then it became therapy, I has some high
stress jobs/positions. At 40 I retired from the daily go to work
routine but stayed busy. Then I worked with a dear friend, 18 years my
senior, doing work to ready homes for resale.

Some where during all of this time off I began getting requests, for the
past 25 years, and I have lost count and forgotten what I have built for
customers. Absolutely not a living but had I done any advertising I
would have been overwhelmed. I am strictly word of mouth and I get
calls from customers that have seen what I have built from customers
that have seen what I have built from customers that have seen what I
have built, from a customer that has seen what I have built.
I pretty much refuse to take a job unless the customer comes to our home
to see my work or tells me that they have seen what I have done by so
and so. Then I know that they are serious about having me design and
build for them.

Relatively recent stuff.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...57630857421932

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...57622991960362


Check out this piece of oak I grabbed up quickly. 1x8 S4S 9' long. And
the whole board looks like this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...7622991960362/




Regardless, cheap metal stands like they sell at HF suck, imnsho.

On 3/9/2021 8:32 AM, Jack wrote:
but I personally like the looks of varnished pine for all my stands and
work benches. Furniture grade cabinets in a workshop just look wrong. I
would not want an oak or cherry lathe stand, or BS stand. Expensive
hardwood looks out of place in a shop, to me. The first thing I built in
my shop was a work bench. Made it out of #4 pine sheathing they sold
cheap for roofs. Still looks great 50 years later and all the drawers
work as good as the day I built it. I learned a ton building it as well,
and everything a built subsequently benefited from doing it.
Many years ago I made a workbench out of common 2X4's and plywood.

I varnished the whole thing. It looks as good to day as it did when I
finished, no considering a the nicks,etc.

The varnish is holding up quite well and does not have that dingy look
of old paint.

I have many of my tools on planks for portability. each has been
varnished. (when needed I clamp the plank to the work bench.)

If I were building a new work table, I would use varnish again.

On 3/9/2021 9:16 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 3:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 13:50:33 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:

like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago.
Remember=20
how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember.Â* It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.
It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

Breaking up the black family.Â* Well, that's _exactly_ what the left
wants now, too, except every family.Â* BLM *is* the Democratic party.

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe. They are
applying the same socialist techniques to the rest of the country as we
speak, and doing quite well. Soon, we'll ALL be living "out of poverty"

Yep.Â* Soon we'll all be living off the scraps the elite leave us.
French Revolution anyone?


Its a vicious cycle.Â* The Dem's promise minimum wage increaces and
government help to "get that vote".

Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases.Â* Then people get
laid off.Â* Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

And then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases.Â* Then people
get laid off.Â* Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


And then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases.Â* Then people get
laid off.Â* Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


If you like where this is headed, keep voting Democratic.



I don't know how many of you worked through 60 and 70's but during that
time the minimum wage increased 60%. I was working as a gofur in a
grocery store while going to college, and looked forward to each
increase, as when the minimum increased Everyone in the store received a
corresponding raise.

HOWEVER as a result of 60% increase in the minimum wage, we were
experienced double digit inflation rates in the 70's as the effect of
the minimum wage worked its way through the entire economy. We bought a
home about 1978 and had to pay 12% for the mortgage, and thought that
was great as other places were asking significantly more.

I know that the democrat activist will blame the inflation on business
and the finance community, but they live in a world of their own.

knuttle writes:
On 3/9/2021 9:16 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 3:46 PM, wrote:

I don't know how many of you worked through 60 and 70's but during that=20
time the minimum wage increased 60%. I was working as a gofur in a=20
grocery store while going to college, and looked forward to each=20
increase, as when the minimum increased Everyone in the store received a =

corresponding raise.

HOWEVER as a result of 60% increase in the minimum wage, we were=20
experienced double digit inflation rates in the 70's as the effect of=20
the minimum wage worked its way through the entire economy.


Come now. The double digit inflation rates were a direct result of
the embargo.

Can you cite _any_ research that supports your assertion that the
abnormally high inflation was caused by the minimum wage increase?

The minimum wage was $1.14 in 1961.
It was raised to $2.00 in 1974, for an increase of 86 cents.

Here's research from the Boston Federal Reserve:

https://www.bostonfed.org/publicatio...increases.aspx

Key findings:
A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage in a Metropolitan Statistical
Area (MSA) is associated with an overall (all-items) inflation rate
that is 8 basis points higher relative to MSAs that do not change their
minimum wage. Yet this rise in inflation is not evenly distributed
across all goods and services. Minimum wage increases have the largest
and fastest measured impact on food prices, especially on food consumed
away from home: a 10 percent rise in the minimum wage leads about a 0.3
percentage point rise in prices on food away from home for the first year
after the wage increase, and an additional 0.1 percentage point the second
year after the increase. The rise in inflation is slower to feed through
to prices on other goods and services, primarily due to a slow price response
in the service sector. By the end of the second year, the total city-level
rise in inflation amounts to a 0.3 percentage point increase for a 10 percent
rise in the minimum wage.

Spending on dining out increases, so businesses make more money.

Spending on durable goods increases, so businesses make more money and
more credit is available to lower-income workers.

Debt is lowered in households with lower credit scores.



I know that the democrat activist will blame the inflation on business=20
and the finance community, but they live in a world of their own.


Pot Kettle (no pun intended) Black.

On 3/9/2021 10:46 AM, knuttle wrote:
On 3/9/2021 9:16 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 3:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 13:50:33 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:

like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago.
Remember=20
how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember.Â* It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.
It was certainly successful in destroying the black community,
something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

Breaking up the black family.Â* Well, that's _exactly_ what the left
wants now, too, except every family.Â* BLM *is* the Democratic party.

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe. They are
applying the same socialist techniques to the rest of the country as we
speak, and doing quite well. Soon, we'll ALL be living "out of poverty"

Yep.Â* Soon we'll all be living off the scraps the elite leave us.
French Revolution anyone?


Its a vicious cycle.Â* The Dem's promise minimum wage increaces and
government help to "get that vote".

Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases.Â* Then people get
laid off.Â* Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

And then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases.Â* Then people
get laid off.Â* Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


And then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases.Â* Then people get
laid off.Â* Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


If you like where this is headed, keep voting Democratic.



I don't know how many of you worked through 60 and 70's but during that
time the minimum wage increased 60%.Â*Â* I was working as a gofur in a
grocery store while going to college, and looked forward to each
increase, as when the minimum increased Everyone in the store received a
corresponding raise.

Started working in the early 70's and recall Nixon presenting a price
freeze to curb inflation.



HOWEVER as a result of 60% increase in the minimum wage, we were
experienced double digit inflation rates in the 70's as the effect of
the minimum wage worked its way through the entire economy.Â* We bought a
home about 1978 and had to pay 12% for the mortgage, and thought that
was great as other places were asking significantly more.


We built in 1980 and paid 25% more for the same size home 1 year prior.
and in 1983 interest rates hit 18%.

I know that the democrat activist will blame the inflation on business
and the finance community, but they live in a world of their own.


The live in a world that does not know what math is.

On 3/9/2021 11:16 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:
On 3/9/2021 9:16 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 3:46 PM, wrote:

I don't know how many of you worked through 60 and 70's but during that=20
time the minimum wage increased 60%. I was working as a gofur in a=20
grocery store while going to college, and looked forward to each=20
increase, as when the minimum increased Everyone in the store received a =

corresponding raise.

HOWEVER as a result of 60% increase in the minimum wage, we were=20
experienced double digit inflation rates in the 70's as the effect of=20
the minimum wage worked its way through the entire economy.


Come now. The double digit inflation rates were a direct result of
the embargo.

When was that? I recall price freezes on everything on the early 70's.
Before 1974. And I do recall gasoline still being 19cents a gallon in
1972.



Can you cite _any_ research that supports your assertion that the
abnormally high inflation was caused by the minimum wage increase?



The minimum wage was $1.14 in 1961.
It was raised to $2.00 in 1974, for an increase of 86 cents.

Here's research from the Boston Federal Reserve:

https://www.bostonfed.org/publicatio...increases.aspx

Key findings:
A 10 percent increase in the minimum wage in a Metropolitan Statistical
Area (MSA) is associated with an overall (all-items) inflation rate
that is 8 basis points higher relative to MSAs that do not change their
minimum wage. Yet this rise in inflation is not evenly distributed
across all goods and services. Minimum wage increases have the largest
and fastest measured impact on food prices, especially on food consumed
away from home: a 10 percent rise in the minimum wage leads about a 0.3
percentage point rise in prices on food away from home for the first year
after the wage increase, and an additional 0.1 percentage point the second
year after the increase. The rise in inflation is slower to feed through
to prices on other goods and services, primarily due to a slow price response
in the service sector. By the end of the second year, the total city-level
rise in inflation amounts to a 0.3 percentage point increase for a 10 percent
rise in the minimum wage.

Spending on dining out increases, so businesses make more money.

Spending on durable goods increases, so businesses make more money and
more credit is available to lower-income workers.

Debt is lowered in households with lower credit scores.



I know that the democrat activist will blame the inflation on business=20
and the finance community, but they live in a world of their own.


Pot Kettle (no pun intended) Black.


Certainly both sides have guilt.

On 3/9/2021 9:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/9/2021 5:56 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Tue, 09 Mar 2021 04:25:19 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:

like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago.
Remember=20
how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember.Â* It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.
It was certainly successful in destroying the black community,
something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe.

+1
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/64/04/9f6404b1f059ab934f72c9988b7a15ea--democratic-party-american-presidents.jpg



According to official figures that do _not_ count food stamps or
welfare as income, the poverty rate fell from about 22.5% to 11.2%
between 1959 and 1974.

The trouble is that it hasn't fallen much more since, despite
government spending on poverty programs going from 100 billion in 1974
to over 500 billion in 2011.

Clearly that extra 400 billion isn't going anywhere that actually
helps people and we as a society should be trying to find out why.

Pay people to do nothing, and make them feel good about doing nothing,
and guess what they do?

Welfare is NOT designed to help the needy, it's designed to MAKE people
needy, just as Johnson planned, as noted in the above quote.


And all this time I thought Welfare was to increase the left's voter
base. ;!)

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/9/2021 11:16 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:
On 3/9/2021 9:16 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 3:46 PM, wrote:

I don't know how many of you worked through 60 and 70's but during that=20
time the minimum wage increased 60%. I was working as a gofur in a=20
grocery store while going to college, and looked forward to each=20
increase, as when the minimum increased Everyone in the store received a =

corresponding raise.

HOWEVER as a result of 60% increase in the minimum wage, we were=20
experienced double digit inflation rates in the 70's as the effect of=20
the minimum wage worked its way through the entire economy.


Come now. The double digit inflation rates were a direct result of
the embargo.

When was that? I recall price freezes on everything on the early 70's.
Before 1974. And I do recall gasoline still being 19cents a gallon in
1972.

I will grant you that. I wasn't part of the labor force until 1974, so the
embargo stands out in my mind.

However, from this bit of research (again by the Federal Reserve)

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publ...ssons-learned/

"Certain economists attribute the Great Inflation primarily to monetary
policy mistakes rather than other purported causes, such as high oil
prices and defense spending during the Vietnam War. In the 1960s,
Fed officials - and prominent economists - generally believed expansionary
monetary policy could propel the economy toward full employment. In other
words, they believed that elevated levels of inflation brought about by
expansionary monetary policy would be tolerable as long as the policy
spurred economic growth and brought unemployment down to its natural rate.

Underlying this policy was the Phillips curve, which suggests that a
trade-off exists between inflation and unemployment. Because some
policymakers believed unemployment was above its natural rate at
that time, they were more inclined to allow inflation to rise and
move the economy toward its potential output. However, the natural
rate was often underestimated: Economist Athanasios Orphanides (2002)
found that the Fed may have overcommitted to its expansionary monetary
policy stance because it was constantly aiming for - but never abl
to achieve -an "optimal" 4 percent unemployment rate.

the rest of the interesting article describes Paul Volkers drastic
measures to curb inflation, which severly weakened the US economy and
resulted in two recessions in the early 1980's.

So, nobody seems to support Keiths assertion that a rise in minimum
wage led to the "great inflation".

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 9:59:47 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:12 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:20 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Jack writes:
On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message. I got my HF
gloves at the old regular price last year. But yeah, looking at
the web
site they have tippled in price.
Have you priced lumber lately?

Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around
$20
a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

What woodworker buys hardwoods from HD or Lowes? Crappy lumber
priced by the linear foot. Much rather buy by the board foot
at a real lumber yard with a much wider (pun intended) selection.


I'm hoping Maple, cherry around $20 a board foot was a type-o. Same
for walnut.
Not a typo, I posted the link to my HD store, did you look?

No, because I thought it was a type-o. m ;~)
Those home centers are expensive but wow I had not checked lately.

....and it's not just the price.

I looked at some 1 x 3 clear pine for trim in the bathroom I'm redoing. I looked
at HD and Lowes (for convenience). It wasn't the price that was the problem,
it was the quality. The only differences between their S-shaped, banged up,
common pine and their S-shaped, banged up, select pine was the price and
lack of knots. Pure crap and completely unusable.

I went to a local sash and door retailer. Paid the same price for boards that
basically needed to be cut to length, finished and installed. They can't be selling
crap to their contractors or in-house installers and stay in business. The stuff
has to be ready to use right off the shelf and it was.

On 3/9/2021 12:15 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:


On another entirely different note. We were discussing the great freeze
down here in Texas a couple of weeks ago and I mentioned a broken fire
hydrant.

Your mentioned, IIRC, the break was probably not caused by the freeze.
And I was going to inquire.

In our monthly MUD meeting this morning I asked our operator about the
hydrant, which the repair cost was brought to the board's attention.

The operator knew of an issue with this hydrant before the freeze.

And he did indeed report that normally the top of the hydrant is
empty/void of water, just as you pointed out. I saw that one and
assumed more, because of the freeze.

The hydrants in our district are inspected regularly and repainted, we
get reports on the condition of the hydrants periodically.

On 3/9/2021 12:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 9:59:47 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:12 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:20 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Jack writes:
On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message. I got my HF
gloves at the old regular price last year. But yeah, looking at
the web
site they have tippled in price.
Have you priced lumber lately?

Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around
$20
a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

What woodworker buys hardwoods from HD or Lowes? Crappy lumber
priced by the linear foot. Much rather buy by the board foot
at a real lumber yard with a much wider (pun intended) selection.


I'm hoping Maple, cherry around $20 a board foot was a type-o. Same
for walnut.
Not a typo, I posted the link to my HD store, did you look?

No, because I thought it was a type-o. m ;~)
Those home centers are expensive but wow I had not checked lately.

...and it's not just the price.

I looked at some 1 x 3 clear pine for trim in the bathroom I'm redoing. I looked
at HD and Lowes (for convenience). It wasn't the price that was the problem,
it was the quality. The only differences between their S-shaped, banged up,
common pine and their S-shaped, banged up, select pine was the price and
lack of knots. Pure crap and completely unusable.

Well in all fairness to those type stores, the general public cherry
picks the lumber. AND that lumber is typically not kiln dried.

If I need good construction grade lumber I buy kiln dried.



I went to a local sash and door retailer. Paid the same price for boards that
basically needed to be cut to length, finished and installed. They can't be selling
crap to their contractors or in-house installers and stay in business. The stuff
has to be ready to use right off the shelf and it was.


Yeah, off the beaten path, a non-retail type setting, you find a better
selection.
Although some pieces slip through the cracks.
You find a few of those crack slippers in every new home build.

Leon wrote:

The live in a world that does not know what math is.

All of the solutions are only a pen stroke and a printing press away...
It has been demonstrated that some members of congress don't even
understand where money comes from!

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 2:10:31 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

The live in a world that does not know what math is.
All of the solutions are only a pen stroke and a printing press away...
It has been demonstrated that some members of congress don't even
understand where money comes from!

All they need to do is mint the infamous Trillion Dollar Coin.

#MintTheCoin

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts...-less-problems

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 2:10:31 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

The live in a world that does not know what math is.
All of the solutions are only a pen stroke and a printing press away...
It has been demonstrated that some members of congress don't even
understand where money comes from!

All they need to do is mint the infamous Trillion Dollar Coin.

#MintTheCoin

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts...-less-problems



Does cryptocurrency count? Someone may already have one! : )

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:16:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 3:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 13:50:33 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:

like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago. Remember=20
how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember. It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.
It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

Breaking up the black family. Well, that's _exactly_ what the left
wants now, too, except every family. BLM *is* the Democratic party.

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe. They are
applying the same socialist techniques to the rest of the country as we
speak, and doing quite well. Soon, we'll ALL be living "out of poverty"

Yep. Soon we'll all be living off the scraps the elite leave us.
French Revolution anyone?


Its a vicious cycle. The Dem's promise minimum wage increaces and
government help to "get that vote".

Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases. Then people get
laid off. Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


Then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

And then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases. Then people
get laid off. Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.

A couple of $T out of the non-existent treasury every few months
doesn't help.


And then the Dem's move forward and spend money on government help and
employers increase minimum wage.

Then prices go up to pay for minimum wage increases. Then people get
laid off. Then the government has to provide more help.

All of that leads to inflation, more money is printed and the dollar
does what it has been doing for the past 50 years.


If you like where this is headed, keep voting Democratic.

No one likes where it's going but about 1/2 the population think money
is free. ...or it's the other 1/2's money.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:32:53 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/9/2021 8:27 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:25 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
knuttle writes:

like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago.
Remember=20
how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember.* It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.
It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe.

+1
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/64/04/9f6404b1f059ab934f72c9988b7a15ea--democratic-party-american-presidents.jpg


++2
Johnson was a wise man, no?

Nixon, a socialist himself, was in government his entire life, was worth
$1/2 million when he became president, and worth the same when he left.
He was a crook. Johnson made $16 million whilst he was president earning
$200g/year, and he was simply a democrat.


And compared to today's politicians, Nixon was a Saint.

+1

He's turning in his grave, saying "But, but, but...".

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:59:38 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 1:12 PM, Jack wrote:
On 3/8/2021 1:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 11:20 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Jack writes:
On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message.* I got my HF
gloves at the old regular price last year.* But yeah, looking at
the web
site they have tippled in price.
Have you priced lumber lately?

Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around
$20
a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

What woodworker buys hardwoods from HD or Lowes?** Crappy lumber
priced by the linear foot.** Much rather buy by the board foot
at a real lumber yard with a much wider (pun intended) selection.


I'm hoping Maple, cherry around $20 a board foot was a type-o.* Same
for walnut.
Not a typo, I posted the link to my HD store, did you look?

No, because I thought it was a type-o. m ;~)
Those home centers are expensive but wow I had not checked lately.

Hardwood Products, http://hwp.us/
And Clark's Hardwood Lumber, https://www.clarkshardwood.com/

The prices I mentioned elsewhere in this thread are what I paid about 4
weeks ago for white oak.

I typically do not buy maple or cherry although they do have a large
supply.



I wouldn't mind a link to where you buy your #1 select maple or cherry
for half that price. Not saying I don't believe you but it's interesting
for sure. I myself had NO idea lumber has gotten this expensive.

Yes, the demand, during Covid has gone bonkers. My wife and I went into
contract last September to have a new home built. About 2 weeks after
giving earnest money, signing the contract, and picking all the colors,
and options the builder pulled out of the contract. They claimed that
they could not guarantee the price we agreed up on because of the prices
going up on materials and simply trying to find the materials.
Building in the Houston area is going crazy and new home prices and been
changing weekly some times twice a week.

They're building like crazy here. The demand has to have a lot to do
with it, too. Don't worry though, the dollar is about to tank. The
Canadian dollar will soon be at par again. The Democrats will love
it. The US dollar is racist anyway.


Does this stuff even grow in Texas?* I thought live oak, whatever that
is, is what was growing down there.* They used that for boat hulls in
the distant past, to stop canon balls, right.

Live oak is a white Oak in most if not all cases. Whaaat?
there are many types of Oaks that are considered Live Oak.

I believe Live Oak is a bit of a generic term for a tree that is not
considered evergreen but is almost evergreen.
Live Oak trees are called such because they retain their leaves year
round except for a week or two. Leaves, fall when the new leaves come
out in the Spring. Sooooo If you have Live Oak trees in your yard you
rake leaves in April, when they fall. And you do rake them if you
expect your grass to grow.

Same with the fall, fall. You do get some help blowing them around
over the winter but if left on the lawn, you won't have one in the
spring. If you at least mow (chop them up), the grass won't die.

The leaves almost do not break down at all,
they are tough and will blanket your yard all summer long.
Personally I do not like them in my yard. Our builder, 10 years ago,
put Live Oaks in all the new build yards. We yanked ours out
immediately and replaced with Red Oak. Our yard is almost the only yard
that has leaves in the yard in the fall. All other trees in our
neighborhood are just now beginning to show signs of loosing their leaves.

There was no point in replanting. Your leaves go in your yard will
pollute theirs in the fall and theirs in yours in the spring. Double
whammy




I only got into this because I saw a local guy on YouTube cutting up oak
and cherry for firewood, and he OWNS a nice sawmill... He said he only
mills hardwood 21" and over for lumber. I think he got a zillion folks
telling him he was a fool. He owns a 100 acres of woods, so he has a lot
of raw product for lumber and firewood. He sells firewood, and I'll bet
sooner or later he'll be selling lots of lumber, and little firewood,
and sooner than later..

Buy the firewood. Become a turner.

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?* I might buy one of
those if I needed one.* ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.

On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?Â* I might buy one of
those if I needed one.Â* ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.


Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand? I might buy one of
those if I needed one. ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.

Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

I have a similar setup, but with just under 20' of hose.

I have a Y fitting followed by 2 gates. One gate is for the dedicated
hose to the miter saw, the other gate is for the 20' of multipurpose
hose. 8' runs from the gate, along the ceiling and the remaining 12'
is "loose", usually coiled once and hung from hook that keeps it out
of my way. The loose hose can reach my bandsaw, bench sanders,
drill press, router table, etc. It's also used for my hand held tools e.g.
ROS and general cleanup.

The hose from the Y fitting connects to a Dust Devil and the system is
powered by a shop vac in the miter saw base cabinet. The remote
for the shop vac's receptacle in dual-locked to the miter saw, but
can travel with me to the other tools as needed.

The only real issue is that the gates get clogged with dust and have
to be periodically cleaned so that they will close. I switched them from
horizontal to vertical, which extended the unclog time considerably,
but they still clog up eventually. I tried a couple of self-cleaning gates
but self-cleaning means self-leaking so I went back to the standard
ones and put up with blasting them with the air hose every now and then.

On 3/10/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand? I might buy one of
those if I needed one. ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.

Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

I have a similar setup, but with just under 20' of hose.

I have a Y fitting followed by 2 gates. One gate is for the dedicated
hose to the miter saw, the other gate is for the 20' of multipurpose
hose. 8' runs from the gate, along the ceiling and the remaining 12'
is "loose", usually coiled once and hung from hook that keeps it out
of my way. The loose hose can reach my bandsaw, bench sanders,
drill press, router table, etc. It's also used for my hand held tools e.g.
ROS and general cleanup.

The hose from the Y fitting connects to a Dust Devil and the system is
powered by a shop vac in the miter saw base cabinet. The remote
for the shop vac's receptacle in dual-locked to the miter saw, but
can travel with me to the other tools as needed.

The only real issue is that the gates get clogged with dust and have
to be periodically cleaned so that they will close. I switched them from
horizontal to vertical, which extended the unclog time considerably,
but they still clog up eventually. I tried a couple of self-cleaning gates
but self-cleaning means self-leaking so I went back to the standard
ones and put up with blasting them with the air hose every now and then.



Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 3:46:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand? I might buy one of
those if I needed one. ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.

Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

I have a similar setup, but with just under 20' of hose.

I have a Y fitting followed by 2 gates. One gate is for the dedicated
hose to the miter saw, the other gate is for the 20' of multipurpose
hose. 8' runs from the gate, along the ceiling and the remaining 12'
is "loose", usually coiled once and hung from hook that keeps it out
of my way. The loose hose can reach my bandsaw, bench sanders,
drill press, router table, etc. It's also used for my hand held tools e.g.
ROS and general cleanup.

The hose from the Y fitting connects to a Dust Devil and the system is
powered by a shop vac in the miter saw base cabinet. The remote
for the shop vac's receptacle in dual-locked to the miter saw, but
can travel with me to the other tools as needed.

The only real issue is that the gates get clogged with dust and have
to be periodically cleaned so that they will close. I switched them from
horizontal to vertical, which extended the unclog time considerably,
but they still clog up eventually. I tried a couple of self-cleaning gates
but self-cleaning means self-leaking so I went back to the standard
ones and put up with blasting them with the air hose every now and then.

Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?

Both gates, right next to each other, right above the miter saw. Of all the
tools in my shop, the miter saw gets vastly more use than any other
one - and makes the most mess - thus the dedicated line.

Since every other tool shares the loose hose (like yours, right?) it's just
a matter of open one gate, close the other. Slide down, slide up.

Keep in mind that my shop is so small that I am never more than 1/2
dozen steps from the gates at any time and rarely that many. I've done
the single hose thing. I spent more time hooking and unhooking the
hose from the miter saw than ever made sense. Now I can go back and
forth between tools with just a swap of gates.

Here ya go...where's the complication?

https://i.imgur.com/x3oS4f0.jpg

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:58:33 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?* I might buy one of
those if I needed one.* ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.


Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

Yes, suction. Flex hose has a lot of resistance. Some tools need a
*lot* of suction or don't bother. SMCSs and lathes are biggies. Even
a table saw can use a lot of air to grab as much of the dust off the
blade as possible.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

On 3/10/2021 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:58:33 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?Â* I might buy one of
those if I needed one.Â* ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.


Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

Yes, suction. Flex hose has a lot of resistance. Some tools need a
*lot* of suction or don't bother. SMCSs and lathes are biggies. Even
a table saw can use a lot of air to grab as much of the dust off the
blade as possible.

I will agree that a flex hose has resistance but I use the more HD ones
that are relatively stiff. With a 15" planer on the end of 30' hardly a
speck is not captured.

And Longer pipe with 90 and 45 degree bends, and blast gates are
probably worse.

I have been very happy with this set up for 15 or so years.



And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 3:46:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand? I might buy one of
those if I needed one. ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.

Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

I have a similar setup, but with just under 20' of hose.

I have a Y fitting followed by 2 gates. One gate is for the dedicated
hose to the miter saw, the other gate is for the 20' of multipurpose
hose. 8' runs from the gate, along the ceiling and the remaining 12'
is "loose", usually coiled once and hung from hook that keeps it out
of my way. The loose hose can reach my bandsaw, bench sanders,
drill press, router table, etc. It's also used for my hand held tools e.g.
ROS and general cleanup.

The hose from the Y fitting connects to a Dust Devil and the system is
powered by a shop vac in the miter saw base cabinet. The remote
for the shop vac's receptacle in dual-locked to the miter saw, but
can travel with me to the other tools as needed.

The only real issue is that the gates get clogged with dust and have
to be periodically cleaned so that they will close. I switched them from
horizontal to vertical, which extended the unclog time considerably,
but they still clog up eventually. I tried a couple of self-cleaning gates
but self-cleaning means self-leaking so I went back to the standard
ones and put up with blasting them with the air hose every now and then.

Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.




Both gates, right next to each other, right above the miter saw. Of all the
tools in my shop, the miter saw gets vastly more use than any other
one - and makes the most mess - thus the dedicated line.

Since every other tool shares the loose hose (like yours, right?) it's just
a matter of open one gate, close the other. Slide down, slide up.

Keep in mind that my shop is so small that I am never more than 1/2
dozen steps from the gates at any time and rarely that many. I've done
the single hose thing. I spent more time hooking and unhooking the
hose from the miter saw than ever made sense. Now I can go back and
forth between tools with just a swap of gates.

Here ya go...where's the complication?

https://i.imgur.com/x3oS4f0.jpg

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:31:14 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.

I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

I'm guessing that you are moving a lot more air at a much faster rate
than I am. That could account for the non-clogging of the gates. I have
no need (or room) for a system as large as yours, so I put up with the
single downside of my set-up.

The advantages of the Y and the 2 gates far outweigh the inconvenience
of the occasional clog.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 11:45:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 3:46:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2021 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021 at 10:58:43 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/9/2021 8:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:09:01 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2021 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/search...al%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inc...and-95128.html

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand? I might buy one of
those if I needed one. ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
why not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

You just need to get some more "flex" hose. LOL. I use a single 30'
flex hose.

I would have thought that there would be nothing left after 30' of
flex. I have some 4" PVC but no time to put it in right now. I'll
have to run it high for some lengths to get it over doors. I'd like
to do 6" but the fittings are ridiculous.

Nothing left? Do you mean suction?
Suction is great. I do have a Jet 1100 CFM with canister filter CD though.

And actually I use 3, 10' flex hoses with 2 couplings.

It keeps up with the planer and now jointer. Think no leaking joints
and eased bends instead of sharp 90 or 45 degree bends.

And So that I do not have to work around 30 feet of hose I go straight
up from the DC to the 3rd car garage rail. And along a 2x4 mounted on
that tail to the the opposite rail.
Then back to the floor. That uses up approximately 20' of hose. If I
need longer I lower the hose from the 2x4 to go straight to the floor.
Then I can go 30' out from the DC.

Nothing is permanent except for 30' of hose attached to my DC.

I have a similar setup, but with just under 20' of hose.

I have a Y fitting followed by 2 gates. One gate is for the dedicated
hose to the miter saw, the other gate is for the 20' of multipurpose
hose. 8' runs from the gate, along the ceiling and the remaining 12'
is "loose", usually coiled once and hung from hook that keeps it out
of my way. The loose hose can reach my bandsaw, bench sanders,
drill press, router table, etc. It's also used for my hand held tools e.g.
ROS and general cleanup.

The hose from the Y fitting connects to a Dust Devil and the system is
powered by a shop vac in the miter saw base cabinet. The remote
for the shop vac's receptacle in dual-locked to the miter saw, but
can travel with me to the other tools as needed.

The only real issue is that the gates get clogged with dust and have
to be periodically cleaned so that they will close. I switched them from
horizontal to vertical, which extended the unclog time considerably,
but they still clog up eventually. I tried a couple of self-cleaning gates
but self-cleaning means self-leaking so I went back to the standard
ones and put up with blasting them with the air hose every now and then.

Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?
I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

I assume you mean "no tools required".

Same for me. Worst case is a single slip adaptor to convert from say
2 1/2" at the band saw or router table to 1 1/2 for the ROS. No tools
ever required.


You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.

The *maybe* once a month cleaning is tolerable. Usually it's just one gate
or the other, rarely do they both clog at the same time. Way more tolerable
than putting the hose on and off the dust port of the miter saw every time
I want to make a single cut or tweak a piece that doesn't quite fit.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


To each his own, of course. The layout of my small shop makes moving
the hose from tool to tool - other than the miter saw - very easy. The time
and effort spent flipping gates is so negligible as to be a minor nit in terms
of "complexity". Shouldn't even enter into the discussion. The time and
effort spent for the once a month blowout of the gates is no where near
the time and effort I spent swapping the hose on and off the miter saw
in the past.

Like I said, to each his own.

On 3/11/2021 11:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.


My exotic set up. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I work out of a 3 car garage, the car comes in if I am not working on a
job. It has not been in the garage since Christmas.

Anyway all of my machines are on mobile bases so fixed DC pipe would be
a moot point.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/11/2021 11:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.


My exotic set up. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I work out of a 3 car garage, the car comes in if I am not working on a
job. It has not been in the garage since Christmas.

My shop is a 2-car garage (18' wide, 22' deep). All of the non-perimeter tools
are on mobile bases; I used to be able to park a car in there by moving the tablesaw
and outfeed table, but gave up on that a decade ago when I bought the Laguna
horizontal mortiser.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 09:45:51 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:31:14 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.

I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

I'm guessing that you are moving a lot more air at a much faster rate
than I am. That could account for the non-clogging of the gates. I have
no need (or room) for a system as large as yours, so I put up with the
single downside of my set-up.

The advantages of the Y and the 2 gates far outweigh the inconvenience
of the occasional clog.

I think clogs are a function of the design of the gate. Some, I've
seen, the gate doesn't completely move out of the airflow or have a
lip that can hang up larger hunks of stuff. Good gates are very
smooth on the inside with nothing to obstruct stuff flying though
there.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 5:32:51 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 09:45:51 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:31:14 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.

I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

I'm guessing that you are moving a lot more air at a much faster rate
than I am. That could account for the non-clogging of the gates. I have
no need (or room) for a system as large as yours, so I put up with the
single downside of my set-up.

The advantages of the Y and the 2 gates far outweigh the inconvenience
of the occasional clog.
I think clogs are a function of the design of the gate. Some, I've
seen, the gate doesn't completely move out of the airflow or have a
lip that can hang up larger hunks of stuff. Good gates are very
smooth on the inside with nothing to obstruct stuff flying though
there.

I probably shouldn't have used the word "clog".

What actually happens is that dust builds up in the hidden corners
of the slot that the gate slides in. Even when hanging vertically, but not
nearly as often as when they were horizontal. Once the dust builds up
in the corners, the gate will not fully close.

What I think may be happening is that dust settles on the track and
then the gate pushes it up into the corners when you close it. Eventually
the gate doesn't fully seal. I can tell not just by the air flow, but also
by the dull thud when closing the gates vs. the solid click when clean.

I bought 2 "self-cleaning" gates from Lee Valley but they leak too much
for me. They have an open slot so that the gate pushes the dust out,
but the slot also acts as a hole in the system. Dumb.

Full disclosu These are 2 1/2" plastic gates from Woodcraft. I need
to look for some 2 1/2" metal gates of the non-self cleaning style.
Maybe the thinner metal gate won't push as much dust into the corners.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:05:01 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/11/2021 11:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

My exotic set up. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I work out of a 3 car garage, the car comes in if I am not working on a
job. It has not been in the garage since Christmas.

Anyway all of my machines are on mobile bases so fixed DC pipe would be
a moot point.

So I'm guessing that you don't use that hose for general cleanup or smaller
tools like a sander. You have a separate Festool vac for those sort of things,
don't you?

In my case, the one dust collection does it all. (I am in no way implying that
that is better then a separate DC device for small tools/clean up. I'm simply
stating that that is how mine is used.)

Very often I open the gate for the miter saw, make a few cuts, swap the gates,
and clean up around the saw with the loose hose. In the past, the mess might
hang around for a while until I felt like unhooking the hose from the saw. With
the gates, I always have DC available while the miter saw stays connected all
the time. I find that the shop stays cleaner that way and in a shop as small as
mine, that's pretty important.

On 3/11/2021 2:58 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/11/2021 11:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.


My exotic set up. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I work out of a 3 car garage, the car comes in if I am not working on a
job. It has not been in the garage since Christmas.

My shop is a 2-car garage (18' wide, 22' deep). All of the non-perimeter tools
are on mobile bases; I used to be able to park a car in there by moving the tablesaw
and outfeed table, but gave up on that a decade ago when I bought the Laguna
horizontal mortiser.


10 years ago I operated out of a 2 car garage with almost the same
equipment that I have now. And my wife's car came in when I was not
working on a job. But still I had the "Anaconda" hose as my DC set up,
like now.

On 3/11/2021 6:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:05:01 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/11/2021 11:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

My exotic set up. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I work out of a 3 car garage, the car comes in if I am not working on a
job. It has not been in the garage since Christmas.

Anyway all of my machines are on mobile bases so fixed DC pipe would be
a moot point.

So I'm guessing that you don't use that hose for general cleanup or smaller
tools like a sander. You have a separate Festool vac for those sort of things,
don't you?

For general clean up, yes. I sweep up dust that does not get caught and
suck that up with the DC hose. For example the DP. Routers. Small
stuff, The Festool dust extractor goes to work. Track saw, 4 sanders,
Domino, Kapex, Kreg pocket hole jig, and the Shaper Origin.

The DC gets the TS, BS, The Planer, the Jointer/ Planer, Drum sander,
Spindle sander and Disk sander Router table



In my case, the one dust collection does it all. (I am in no way implying that
that is better then a separate DC device for small tools/clean up. I'm simply
stating that that is how mine is used.)

Very often I open the gate for the miter saw, make a few cuts, swap the gates,
and clean up around the saw with the loose hose. In the past, the mess might
hang around for a while until I felt like unhooking the hose from the saw. With
the gates, I always have DC available while the miter saw stays connected all
the time. I find that the shop stays cleaner that way and in a shop as small as
mine, that's pretty important.

On Fri, 12 Mar 2021 16:51:41 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 3/11/2021 6:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:05:01 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/11/2021 11:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 3/10/2021 5:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Sounds complicated. Compared to mine. Get rid of the gates. and the Y.

Not complicated at all. Why do you think that?


I have a 30 foot hose, with a flared end to fit the machine. Not tools
requires to move from one machine to another.

You on the other hand have a Y with a hose attached to each side. My Y
is capped off on one side. You have 2 gates that get clogged. I "never
ever" get clogs. No gates to open or close.


So I only use one tool at a time, I have no need for a manifold and or
gates.


I've a 2HP Reliant DC with a single 6" inlet connected to a 6" by two 4"
wye. One side of the wye connects to rigid plastic 4" drain pipe with
gates for the shaper, the disk sander, the drum sander
and the TS.

The other side of the wye goes another wye, one side of which connects
via a gate to the bandsaw, the other side goes to another wye, one
branch of which goes to the DJ-20 jointer, and the other to the SCMS. Most of
this is 4" flex black DC hose.

When needed, the 15" planer is moved to the center of the shop and
a 4" hose is connected to inlet used by the jointer, but I've found the
drum sander does many of the jobs the planer was used for.

All metal gates, and I've never had a clogging issue with them.

My exotic set up. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I work out of a 3 car garage, the car comes in if I am not working on a
job. It has not been in the garage since Christmas.

Anyway all of my machines are on mobile bases so fixed DC pipe would be
a moot point.

So I'm guessing that you don't use that hose for general cleanup or smaller
tools like a sander. You have a separate Festool vac for those sort of things,
don't you?

For general clean up, yes. I sweep up dust that does not get caught and
suck that up with the DC hose. For example the DP. Routers. Small
stuff, The Festool dust extractor goes to work. Track saw, 4 sanders,
Domino, Kapex, Kreg pocket hole jig, and the Shaper Origin.

A big issue between a dust collector and "shop vac" is that the
collector is high volume (low speed) and the shop vac (even Festool)
is high speed, low volume. A shop vac isn't going to suck enough to
get must that a planer will throw at it and it won't do it for long
without overflowing. ;-)

The DC gets the TS, BS, The Planer, the Jointer/ Planer, Drum sander,
Spindle sander and Disk sander Router table

Stationary machines tend to need a high volume of air because they put
out more junk but also have better collection systems. Routers, track
saws, and the like, need high speed (pressure) to get everything from
the cutter because the collection system isn't go great and the dust
coming off them is at high speed. Even necked down, a DC can't
produce a high speed stream. The DC will just choke. Both a DC and
vacuum are needed.

I have a dust collector that I bought about 12 years ago. It's a "no
name" from Penn State, when they were selling things other than pen
turning stuff. It's a 2HP with a 1u bag but is a PITA to empty (needs
it now). Even though it claims to be 1u, I do worry about what gets
through. I also have a shop vac for general clean up and a CT48 for
the small tools. Of course, the CT48 is HEPA and other than the drum
sander, tends to be used for machines that produce really small stuff
(sanders, primarily).

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 6:02:13 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 12:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:27:52 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 10:18 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 10:52:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2021 5:48 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
glue brushes that Wood Craft sells. Yellow tip, Black handle.

I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years. And
Yes I saw the second one yesterday. LOL

Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.


Might work pretty good for plumbing flux too. Disposable brushes are nice,
but it just feels like such a waste when you're only doing two joints.

I'll have to look for those. How much does the silicone flex?

Puckdropper

Quite a bit. They have approximately 30 little fingers that are about
3/4" long.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/s...e-glue-brush-1

Silicone is the latest rage in cookware. I have a couple of brushes like
yours for basting, buttering, etc. We also have some spatulas, stirring
spoons, etc. We haven't tried any of the muffin tins or cake/loaf pans, but
I keep thinking about it. I see them used on the cooking competition
shows all the time. The food items just pop right out, like a ice from
a plastic ice cube tray.
Well for baking silicone has been around for quite a while, at least
10~15 years. I bought my wife silicone muffin tins, bread pans. She
pretty much hates them. So they tend to break down and become sticky
over a period of time. What ever is oozing out is oozing out in high
temperatures into your food.


Are you talking about 15 YO muffin tins or modern day muffin tins?
Well since she had the bad luck she has not bought any more hoping that
it got better.


Compounds have probably improved.

Maybe but they are still silicone unlike the examples you mentioned below.


On the other hand, it's possible that one might confuse a sticky residue from the
food with the breakdown of the silicone. Like I said, I've not tried any silicone
bakeware, so this may not be what you and the missus have experienced. I can
say that I have experienced sticky residue on metal cookware over time.
No, the silicone bakeware was put up clean and developed this
deteriorating sticky goo sitting in the dark of the cabinet.
Trying to clean that goo off damaged the surface.

I was gluing on some edging last night and got to thinking about the
silicon brushes vs. silicon muffin tins.

I'm just tossing this out, not trying to prove my point. It's just a possibility.

In this response you said:

" the silicone bakeware was put up clean and developed this
deteriorating sticky goo sitting in the dark of the cabinet."

In another response, you said:

"Ambient room temperature being the relative constant and the
silicone breaks down on its own. Oddly, the silicone brush and
small silicone container have not exhibited this condition."

OK, so what's different between these two situations? One obvious
difference is the use of oil and other food stuffs when baking but
not when gluing.

It could be possible, that based on the articles I quoted, the muffin
tins only felt clean when put away but the unfelt residue eventually
changed it's chemical structure (polymerized, perhaps?) and turned
sticky.

I've had cast iron skillets turn sticky if not used frequently enough.
Granted, they are put away with a slight coat of oil on them, but it
could be possible that the silicon muffin tins also had a very slight
amount of residue, even if cleaned as thoroughly as possible before
being stored.

The way to test that would be to put the brushes - or at least the bristles -
through the same cooking and cleaning process and see if they eventually
get sticky.

Just a thought - but only worth doing if someone wanted to solve "The
Case Of The Sticky Muffin Tin". Wasn't that a Hardy Boys book? ;-)

On 3/16/2021 11:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:09:55 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 6:02:13 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 12:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:27:52 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 10:18 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 10:52:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2021 5:48 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:



I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
glue brushes that Wood Craft sells. Yellow tip, Black handle.

I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years. And
Yes I saw the second one yesterday. LOL

Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.


Might work pretty good for plumbing flux too. Disposable brushes are nice,
but it just feels like such a waste when you're only doing two joints.

I'll have to look for those. How much does the silicone flex?

Puckdropper

Quite a bit. They have approximately 30 little fingers that are about
3/4" long.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/s...e-glue-brush-1

Silicone is the latest rage in cookware. I have a couple of brushes like
yours for basting, buttering, etc. We also have some spatulas, stirring
spoons, etc. We haven't tried any of the muffin tins or cake/loaf pans, but
I keep thinking about it. I see them used on the cooking competition
shows all the time. The food items just pop right out, like a ice from
a plastic ice cube tray.
Well for baking silicone has been around for quite a while, at least
10~15 years. I bought my wife silicone muffin tins, bread pans. She
pretty much hates them. So they tend to break down and become sticky
over a period of time. What ever is oozing out is oozing out in high
temperatures into your food.


Are you talking about 15 YO muffin tins or modern day muffin tins?
Well since she had the bad luck she has not bought any more hoping that
it got better.


Compounds have probably improved.

Maybe but they are still silicone unlike the examples you mentioned below.


On the other hand, it's possible that one might confuse a sticky residue from the
food with the breakdown of the silicone. Like I said, I've not tried any silicone
bakeware, so this may not be what you and the missus have experienced. I can
say that I have experienced sticky residue on metal cookware over time.
No, the silicone bakeware was put up clean and developed this
deteriorating sticky goo sitting in the dark of the cabinet.
Trying to clean that goo off damaged the surface.

I was gluing on some edging last night and got to thinking about the
silicon brushes vs. silicon muffin tins.

I'm just tossing this out, not trying to prove my point. It's just a possibility.

In this response you said:

" the silicone bakeware was put up clean and developed this
deteriorating sticky goo sitting in the dark of the cabinet."

In another response, you said:

"Ambient room temperature being the relative constant and the
silicone breaks down on its own. Oddly, the silicone brush and
small silicone container have not exhibited this condition."

OK, so what's different between these two situations? One obvious
difference is the use of oil and other food stuffs when baking but
not when gluing.

Sooo the really big difference is the high heat that the baking dishes
are exposed to.


It could be possible, that based on the articles I quoted, the muffin
tins only felt clean when put away but the unfelt residue eventually
changed it's chemical structure (polymerized, perhaps?) and turned
sticky.

What ever is going on, the silicone baking pans, heat breaking down the
silicone or residue from baking not actually coming off in the
dishwasher but still feel clean we choose to not risk the possibilities
of what was going on.



I've had cast iron skillets turn sticky if not used frequently enough.
Granted, they are put away with a slight coat of oil on them, but it
could be possible that the silicon muffin tins also had a very slight
amount of residue, even if cleaned as thoroughly as possible before
being stored.

Possibly but then they fail because they do not come clean and the
silicone breaks down.



The way to test that would be to put the brushes - or at least the bristles -
through the same cooking and cleaning process and see if they eventually
get sticky.

They probably would. But our silicone utensils, if not exposed to high
heat, baking, hold up with out getting sticky.


Either way, our experience with the silicone after being baked was not a
pleasant one compared to the metal equivalents.