On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 15:45:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 1:55 PM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:16:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:40 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.


I think that is what I said, if you finance.

Yes you did sir. I tried to provide a bit more info. I would say
though if you are in a flood zone and they will not provide insurance,
build your place on stilts.


Yes. River homes built on the banks are typically on stilts and I
seriously doubt you could buy flood insurance for them either. ;~)

Shhhhhh! Don't mention the possibility of having to add flood insurance
to automobiles as an extra. Coverage covers vehicles for flood now but
if they get wind of it.......

I would say that hundreds if not thousands of vehicles get flooded every
year in Houston.

How about flood insurance for houseboats. :~

Markem wrote in
:


How about flood insurance for houseboats. :~


After watching every episode of MacGyver with a houseboat in it, I can
say the hazards a
1. Crazy (and hot) professor untieing your house and setting it adrift
2. Fun but wacky best friend moving in (Hi Jack!)
3. Crazy man with a photography fetish setting lethal bobbytraps
4. Very cute girl borrows your shower and a hockey jersey. I don't
remember if she did it again on her second visit, that was the one where
MacGyver fell asleep and dreamed his life was a western.
5. I think someone set fire to it. That's what did it in. Murdoc?

Never once did his house boat flood!

What we can see here is that house boats obviously don't flood (so flood
insurance is pointless) and Puckdropper enjoys MacGyver enough to compile
such a list (it's not a complete list, he does have a life!)

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 09:34:07 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 23:54:27 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 23:05:04 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.


Whether you have a mortgage or not, it's
all cash to him.

More or less, builders pay a lot for certain additions of difficulty to
get loans added in the mix.

I can't parse the above sentence.

There is no mortgage insurance unless you have more
house than you can afford.

Unless you finance 80% or more IIRC.

What I said. ;-)

If you're in a flood plane, you're stupid
if you don't have flood insurance. Don't you have fire insurance?

I do not have fire insurance specifically, I have home owners insurance
which covers most anything except flood.

I'll bet it doesn't cover earthquakes (earth movement) either.

Every one is in a flood plane, some 500 year, 100 year, etc.

Not true.

I am in
the 500 IIRC and buy the insurance anyway, relatively cheap. My
precious home was in a cheap zone until it was rezoned, that can happen
any time and if it happens and you still have a mortgage you may have to
get flood insurance. If you don't the flood insurance the mortgage
company will get it for you.

So?

My precious home went from about $260 per year to $3600 for flood
insurance. That was just after Katrina. Had I still had a mortgage my
payments would have gone up $300 per month.

If you have a mortgage you may incur more liabilities than just the loan.

So you're saying that you would go without flood insurance? So you're
self-insuring.
There are lots of places where flood insurance is basically not
available.

Where would that be? BTW, I'm not saying that everyone should have
flood insurance, just that a mortgage shouldn't be the determining
factor. A home is still something few can afford to lose (hence
self-insure).
There are same areas where the cost of d insurance in flood plane
areas is so high it is "basically unavailable". a few years insurance
will replace the structure.

On 09 Apr 2017 00:17:22 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Markem wrote in
:


How about flood insurance for houseboats. :~


After watching every episode of MacGyver with a houseboat in it, I can
say the hazards a
1. Crazy (and hot) professor untieing your house and setting it adrift
2. Fun but wacky best friend moving in (Hi Jack!)
3. Crazy man with a photography fetish setting lethal bobbytraps
4. Very cute girl borrows your shower and a hockey jersey. I don't
remember if she did it again on her second visit, that was the one where
MacGyver fell asleep and dreamed his life was a western.
5. I think someone set fire to it. That's what did it in. Murdoc?

Never once did his house boat flood!

What we can see here is that house boats obviously don't flood (so flood
insurance is pointless) and Puckdropper enjoys MacGyver enough to compile
such a list (it's not a complete list, he does have a life!)

Puckdropper

Myth Busters! Best line in Stargate the TV series, in describibg how
she manged to get the gate working "We kind of had to McGyver it".

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 11:26:03 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:55:00 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/7/2017 9:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.

Why would the builder pay points on your loan?

Ok, this is getting kind'a silly. Often a builder will pay points to
lower the mortgage or to simply help with the expenses of the mortgage
approval, this happened with our first home. Builders ALWAYS pay points
to close the deal. If your builder did not you were had.

That's absurd. I shop mortgages for myself. Why would I take their
financing?

Anyway here is how our sale went. After negotiating and agreeing to the
the price to build the home the salesman asked if we already had an
approved loan. I said that we intended to pay cash. Well Mr. Leon you
get an extra $5K off of your negotiated price.

If you need further details I suggest you visit DRHorton.com

So the analogy is to take dealer financing on cars? In almost all
cases, that's silly.
It's far from silly when it is at 0% or 0.25%

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:20:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:40:15 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.

It's the same for fire insurance. We had a mortgage company that was
trying their best to force us to buy fire insurance from them (they
refused my company's documentation and were automatically billing us).
Their automatic charge was 5x the norm. That wasn't the only BS they
were pulling, either. Scum.



If you settle for letting the mortgage company buy insurance for you,
you get what you deserve. You can simply buy from whom you want and
cancel the higher policy, the mortgage company can not do anything about
that. They can how ever require you to have the insurance and will
insure that you do by increasing your escrow to pay for it.
If your insurance company provides proof the mortgage company has to
adjust your escrow
Up here buying mortgage insurance is WAY more expensive than buying
declining benefit term insurance from a life insurance company. 20
year mortgage? Buy 20 year term insurance. Iven straight term is less
expensive than martgage insurance

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 13:55:24 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:16:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:40 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.


I think that is what I said, if you finance.

Yes you did sir. I tried to provide a bit more info. I would say
though if you are in a flood zone and they will not provide insurance,
build your place on stilts.
In many cases you can't even get a building permit in a flood plain
up here.

On 2017-04-08 8:46 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:20:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:40:15 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.

It's the same for fire insurance. We had a mortgage company that was
trying their best to force us to buy fire insurance from them (they
refused my company's documentation and were automatically billing us).
Their automatic charge was 5x the norm. That wasn't the only BS they
were pulling, either. Scum.



If you settle for letting the mortgage company buy insurance for you,
you get what you deserve. You can simply buy from whom you want and
cancel the higher policy, the mortgage company can not do anything about
that. They can how ever require you to have the insurance and will
insure that you do by increasing your escrow to pay for it.
If your insurance company provides proof the mortgage company has to
adjust your escrow
Up here buying mortgage insurance is WAY more expensive than buying
declining benefit term insurance from a life insurance company. 20
year mortgage? Buy 20 year term insurance. Iven straight term is less
expensive than martgage insurance

Yep, mortgage insurance was offered of course, I declined, it was crazy
expensive, irrelevant now though.

--
Froz....

In article , markem618
@hotmail.com says...

On 09 Apr 2017 00:17:22 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Markem wrote in
:


How about flood insurance for houseboats. :~


After watching every episode of MacGyver with a houseboat in it, I can
say the hazards a
1. Crazy (and hot) professor untieing your house and setting it adrift
2. Fun but wacky best friend moving in (Hi Jack!)
3. Crazy man with a photography fetish setting lethal bobbytraps
4. Very cute girl borrows your shower and a hockey jersey. I don't
remember if she did it again on her second visit, that was the one where
MacGyver fell asleep and dreamed his life was a western.
5. I think someone set fire to it. That's what did it in. Murdoc?

Never once did his house boat flood!

What we can see here is that house boats obviously don't flood (so flood
insurance is pointless) and Puckdropper enjoys MacGyver enough to compile
such a list (it's not a complete list, he does have a life!)

Puckdropper

Myth Busters! Best line in Stargate the TV series, in describibg how
she manged to get the gate working "We kind of had to McGyver it".

If you haven't seen it, here's a blooper you might enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZFULWaUTA

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:13:26 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:58 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 10:37:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:55:00 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/7/2017 9:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.

Why would the builder pay points on your loan?

Ok, this is getting kind'a silly. Often a builder will pay points to
lower the mortgage or to simply help with the expenses of the mortgage
approval, this happened with our first home. Builders ALWAYS pay points
to close the deal. If your builder did not you were had.

That's absurd. I shop mortgages for myself. Why would I take their
financing?

I don't know what you would do or what you might be thinking. And this
would work with whom ever you chose to use for financing. There are
costs involved with obtaining a home loan other than simply paying back
the P&I.

Huh? None of the costs have anything to do with the builder (or
anyone else you may buy a house from). If the builder is buying down
the interest to make his house look more attractive, well, just do it
yourself. The point is that the builder is getting a wad of cash. He
doesn't care if it's coming from you or a bank. Any "discounts" for
cash are just come-ons.

Anyway here is how our sale went. After negotiating and agreeing to the
the price to build the home the salesman asked if we already had an
approved loan. I said that we intended to pay cash. Well Mr. Leon you
get an extra $5K off of your negotiated price.

If you need further details I suggest you visit DRHorton.com

So the analogy is to take dealer financing on cars? In almost all
cases, that's silly.


I said nothing about taking anyone's financing. The builder wanted to
know if I was preapproved. The discount he gave us was for not having
to participate, to compete with the builder next door, with buying down
percentage points, loan origination fees, appraisals for the loan, extra
surveys for the loan, etc.

So he didn't give you anything (for purchasing with cash). He would
have given the same deal to anyone who walked in with financing.



What I said above. We got an additional $5K discount after the
negotiated price for paying cash.

trying not to flog a deceased equine further ...but you would have
gotten exactly the same deal if you had &megabank write the check.
It's all cash to the contractor.

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 20:37:08 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 11:26:03 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:55:00 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/7/2017 9:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.

Why would the builder pay points on your loan?

Ok, this is getting kind'a silly. Often a builder will pay points to
lower the mortgage or to simply help with the expenses of the mortgage
approval, this happened with our first home. Builders ALWAYS pay points
to close the deal. If your builder did not you were had.

That's absurd. I shop mortgages for myself. Why would I take their
financing?

Anyway here is how our sale went. After negotiating and agreeing to the
the price to build the home the salesman asked if we already had an
approved loan. I said that we intended to pay cash. Well Mr. Leon you
get an extra $5K off of your negotiated price.

If you need further details I suggest you visit DRHorton.com

So the analogy is to take dealer financing on cars? In almost all
cases, that's silly.
It's far from silly when it is at 0% or 0.25%

Or you can take cash and finance at a CU for 1 - 1.5%. Your point
about 0% financing is a good one, though. I use it quite often.

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:20:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:40:15 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.

It's the same for fire insurance. We had a mortgage company that was
trying their best to force us to buy fire insurance from them (they
refused my company's documentation and were automatically billing us).
Their automatic charge was 5x the norm. That wasn't the only BS they
were pulling, either. Scum.



If you settle for letting the mortgage company buy insurance for you,
you get what you deserve. You can simply buy from whom you want and
cancel the higher policy, the mortgage company can not do anything about
that. They can how ever require you to have the insurance and will
insure that you do by increasing your escrow to pay for it.
If your insurance company provides proof the mortgage company has to
adjust your escrow

Yes, that's certainly the law however mortgage companies aren't known
to be the most honest institutions. IME, they'll try anything.

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 20:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:20:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:40:15 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.

It's the same for fire insurance. We had a mortgage company that was
trying their best to force us to buy fire insurance from them (they
refused my company's documentation and were automatically billing us).
Their automatic charge was 5x the norm. That wasn't the only BS they
were pulling, either. Scum.



If you settle for letting the mortgage company buy insurance for you,
you get what you deserve. You can simply buy from whom you want and
cancel the higher policy, the mortgage company can not do anything about
that. They can how ever require you to have the insurance and will
insure that you do by increasing your escrow to pay for it.
If your insurance company provides proof the mortgage company has to
adjust your escrow
Up here buying mortgage insurance is WAY more expensive than buying
declining benefit term insurance from a life insurance company. 20
year mortgage? Buy 20 year term insurance. Iven straight term is less
expensive than martgage insurance

And it's not required, by law. That's not to say that life insurance
is bad, just that the mortgage company cannot compel you to buy it.

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:37:24 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 15:45:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 1:55 PM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:16:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:40 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.


I think that is what I said, if you finance.

Yes you did sir. I tried to provide a bit more info. I would say
though if you are in a flood zone and they will not provide insurance,
build your place on stilts.


Yes. River homes built on the banks are typically on stilts and I
seriously doubt you could buy flood insurance for them either. ;~)

Shhhhhh! Don't mention the possibility of having to add flood insurance
to automobiles as an extra. Coverage covers vehicles for flood now but
if they get wind of it.......

I would say that hundreds if not thousands of vehicles get flooded every
year in Houston.

How about flood insurance for houseboats. :~

Hull insurance? ;-)

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 20:48:09 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 13:55:24 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:16:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:40 AM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.


I think that is what I said, if you finance.

Yes you did sir. I tried to provide a bit more info. I would say
though if you are in a flood zone and they will not provide insurance,
build your place on stilts.
In many cases you can't even get a building permit in a flood plain
up here.

It certainly depends on the frequency of flooding but that's the way
it should be. Federal flood insurance is a boondoggle. Why are the
richest being subsidized?

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:30:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:21 AM, wrote:
Snip


I can't parse the above sentence.

It is all cash to them, more cash or less cash. Builders pay a lot for
certain things to help the buyer qualify or to compete with what the
builder in the next door model home is offering.

But those are all gimmicks that can be negotiated around. It's not
the cash sale that mattered. Again, if you came in with your own
financing, nothing would have changed. He would have given you the
same price. Money is money.




There is no mortgage insurance unless you have more
house than you can afford.

Unless you finance 80% or more IIRC.

What I said. ;-)

I would say the the vast majority of new home buyers are paying as
little down as possible. And a good majority of those people can easily
afford the home they buy. An extreme example was my son, he bought our
home and financed as much as he could. 3 years later he paid the loan
off. We considered having a balloon loan on our current home to get
very low interest in the first five years and simply paying if off in 2
years, just to have a little more cush. We chose to not finance at all
and tightened the purse strings for a couple of years.

I don't think that's true at all. PMI is a *lot* of money and avoided
if at all possible. I only put 10% down on this house because I still
had my previous house (wife was still living in it) but as soon as
that sold. The PMI wasn't a big deal for a short time.

Well what you think is not gospel.

"And a good majority of those people can easily afford the home they
buy."

If the majority could easily afford the homes they bought, we wouldn't
have had the mess in '08. Home affordability is even lower today.

If you're in a flood plane, you're stupid
if you don't have flood insurance. Don't you have fire insurance?

I do not have fire insurance specifically, I have home owners insurance
which covers most anything except flood.

I'll bet it doesn't cover earthquakes (earth movement) either.

Every one is in a flood plane, some 500 year, 100 year, etc.

Not true.

Every one is in a zone determined by FEMA.

Pike's Peak? Get real. Well, I guess there was Noah...

Explain that to FEMA.




I am in
the 500 IIRC and buy the insurance anyway, relatively cheap. My
precious home was in a cheap zone until it was rezoned, that can happen
any time and if it happens and you still have a mortgage you may have to
get flood insurance. If you don't the flood insurance the mortgage
company will get it for you.

So?

Just because I am not likely to be in a flood, it can happen. If your
storm drains clog a heavy rain can flood your home. I witnessed this
about 10 years ago. While I was "then" in a likely to flood area and
did have flood insurance, we had a tornado go through the neighborhood
followed by heavy rains for 2~3 hours. Rising water almost entered our
garage and did enter homes at the end of the street. The was no high
water our side of a few streets in our neighborhood. The drains were
stopped up with debris and the rain came down faster than than the
clogged drains could handle.

Can happen, but it's highly dependant on surrounding terrain.Clare's
situation is pretty obvious. We just had 6" of rain in a couple of
hours (under tornado warnings). No problems. The only storm drains
around here take the water off the street and dump it into the woods
(streams) behind the houses.

You said So, I explained.


So, that is why I buy flood insurance even though I am not ins a prone
to flood area.



My precious home went from about $260 per year to $3600 for flood
insurance. That was just after Katrina. Had I still had a mortgage my
payments would have gone up $300 per month.

If you have a mortgage you may incur more liabilities than just the loan.

So you're saying that you would go without flood insurance? So you're
self-insuring.

NO I did not say that. I was locked in with the $260 that I had already
paid, about 3 months later my agent and the flood insurance company
tried to make me cancel the policy so that I would have to immediately
pay more. They sent me a refund check which I sat on until the policy
expired. I then cashed the check and changed agents and flood
insurance companies. My new policy went up to about $700, after I
provided an elevation survey, otherwise I would have had to pay way more.

I'm confused.

I know.

What would a mortgage have to do with it?

It? and there was no mention of a mortgage in the above paragraph.

We were discussing the difference between mortgages and cash (or at
least paid off). If there was a mortgage they could get their panties
in a twist but since not...

You were
covered contractually.

Not arguing that at all.

On 4/8/2017 8:48 PM, wrote:

In many cases you can't even get a building permit in a flood plain
up here.


Why would you want one? Unless you are building a house on stilts.

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 10:01:17 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/7/2017 8:27 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:41:31 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.


Whether you have a mortgage or not, it's
all cash to him.

More or less, builders pay a lot for certain additions of difficulty to
get loans added in the mix.

There is no mortgage insurance unless you have more
house than you can afford.

Unless you finance 80% or more IIRC.



If you're in a flood plane, you're stupid
if you don't have flood insurance. Don't you have fire insurance?

I do not have fire insurance specifically, I have home owners insurance
which covers most anything except flood.

Every one is in a flood plane, some 500 year, 100 year, etc. I am in
the 500 IIRC and buy the insurance anyway, relatively cheap. My
precious home was in a cheap zone until it was rezoned, that can happen
any time and if it happens and you still have a mortgage you may have to
get flood insurance. If you don't the flood insurance the mortgage
company will get it for you.

My precious home went from about $260 per year to $3600 for flood
insurance. That was just after Katrina. Had I still had a mortgage my
payments would have gone up $300 per month.

If you have a mortgage you may incur more liabilities than just the loan.


I'm over 100 feet higher than the Grand River and Laurel Creek at just
about the highest point in the whole neighborhood. It would be a more
than 1 in 500 year event to flood overland,


You would be surprised how they figure ground water damage. I'm going
through that right now. House is 3.5 to 4 feet above everything, with
no water barriers like concrete to stop the water from draining off.
They still wanted to call it ground water damage instead of Heavy rain
storms twice in the same month with heavy winds driving it into a hole
and some cracks between the flashing and stucco. All 6" above the
ground.


Typically in the Houston area, which floods on a regular basis, if the
damage to the walls is from the floor up, it is rising water and
flooded. If the damage is from the ceiling down, it is not rising water
and or flooded.

Mine was from the ground up, but it would be impossible for it to have
flooded here as the land around me would have to be under 4 ft plus to
have even hit the bottom of the stucco. That would have hit the
national news had it happened.

One guy said it "trickled up", but even with all the earthquakes we've
been through there is nary a crack.

I was glad that our garage door has a nice seal to it at the bottom,
without that the rains would have wet the whole garage the way the
winds were blowing.

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 22:38:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/8/2017 8:48 PM, wrote:

In many cases you can't even get a building permit in a flood plain
up here.


Why would you want one? Unless you are building a house on stilts.
You would be surprised what is considered floodplain - and you would
never be allowed to build in the majority of Florida - and definitely
not New Orleans.under our rules.

Myself, if a house needs a sump pump, I'm really not too interested.
I grew up in a house where when it rained, water from the street would
often flow in the front door, down the basement steps, and out the
cellar drain. That got old REAL fast. Dad ended up building a brick
wall around the front porch and we had a "flood gate" that closed off
the entrance if we were expecting heavy rain. The "wake" from the
passing trucks was then stopped by the gate. He also raised the front
porch about 8 inches higher than the living room floor and poured a
"retaining wall" around the front of the foundation to guide the water
around to the driveway. We had a 12 or 14 inch tile from a catch basin
in the driveway between our place and the neighbor's, and in a heavy
rain storm it would run full.. We were at a low point in the street,
and our street was basically at the bottom of a hill where we got
water running down several streets onto ours - with the "river flats"
behind us. The creek flooded every spring but the flood level was
never closer than about8 feet below the back/bottom end of out lot,
and the lot sloped enough that the basement floor level was about even
with the level of the back of the lot. We didn't have or need a sump
pump because the cellar drain was open to daylight down in the
"flats", but occaisionally we'd have a rat come up the drain into the
basement.. In 1967 the town built a park in the old river flats


I had enough of flooding living there, so I look very close at
drainage issues when I look at a house or property today!!!!

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 22:38:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/8/2017 8:48 PM, wrote:

In many cases you can't even get a building permit in a flood plain
up here.


Why would you want one? Unless you are building a house on stilts.

Because, with national flood insurance, "we can have this awesome view
and someone else will make us whole if it floods again". It's gotten
harder to pull this sort of thing off but that's what these laws were
addressing.

On 4/8/2017 9:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 20:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:20:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:40:15 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.

It's the same for fire insurance. We had a mortgage company that was
trying their best to force us to buy fire insurance from them (they
refused my company's documentation and were automatically billing us).
Their automatic charge was 5x the norm. That wasn't the only BS they
were pulling, either. Scum.



If you settle for letting the mortgage company buy insurance for you,
you get what you deserve. You can simply buy from whom you want and
cancel the higher policy, the mortgage company can not do anything about
that. They can how ever require you to have the insurance and will
insure that you do by increasing your escrow to pay for it.
If your insurance company provides proof the mortgage company has to
adjust your escrow
Up here buying mortgage insurance is WAY more expensive than buying
declining benefit term insurance from a life insurance company. 20
year mortgage? Buy 20 year term insurance. Iven straight term is less
expensive than martgage insurance

And it's not required, by law. That's not to say that life insurance
is bad, just that the mortgage company cannot compel you to buy it.


Well the mortgage company can compel you to buy it by turning you down
for the loan or not.

On 4/8/2017 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:13:26 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:58 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 10:37:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:55:00 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/7/2017 9:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.

Why would the builder pay points on your loan?

Ok, this is getting kind'a silly. Often a builder will pay points to
lower the mortgage or to simply help with the expenses of the mortgage
approval, this happened with our first home. Builders ALWAYS pay points
to close the deal. If your builder did not you were had.

That's absurd. I shop mortgages for myself. Why would I take their
financing?

I don't know what you would do or what you might be thinking. And this
would work with whom ever you chose to use for financing. There are
costs involved with obtaining a home loan other than simply paying back
the P&I.

Huh? None of the costs have anything to do with the builder (or
anyone else you may buy a house from). If the builder is buying down
the interest to make his house look more attractive, well, just do it
yourself. The point is that the builder is getting a wad of cash. He
doesn't care if it's coming from you or a bank. Any "discounts" for
cash are just come-ons.

Anyway here is how our sale went. After negotiating and agreeing to the
the price to build the home the salesman asked if we already had an
approved loan. I said that we intended to pay cash. Well Mr. Leon you
get an extra $5K off of your negotiated price.

If you need further details I suggest you visit DRHorton.com

So the analogy is to take dealer financing on cars? In almost all
cases, that's silly.


I said nothing about taking anyone's financing. The builder wanted to
know if I was preapproved. The discount he gave us was for not having
to participate, to compete with the builder next door, with buying down
percentage points, loan origination fees, appraisals for the loan, extra
surveys for the loan, etc.

So he didn't give you anything (for purchasing with cash). He would
have given the same deal to anyone who walked in with financing.



What I said above. We got an additional $5K discount after the
negotiated price for paying cash.

trying not to flog a deceased equine further ...but you would have
gotten exactly the same deal if you had &megabank write the check.
It's all cash to the contractor.


The bank is not going to take your word for it and hand you a check for
X dollars to build a new home. They send the check to the closing/title
company.
The builder has to pay title companies, surveyors, appraisers, and
attorneys to get all the paper work together to prove that the house is
worth the risk and to insure that the home meets certain standards to
qualify for the loan.

Now if you borrow against other collateral or get a home equity loan and
use t6hat to build a house then it would not matter to the builder.

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 11:28:49 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:


Every one is in a zone determined by FEMA.


I live on a hill, high above a bay and about 2 miles from one our Great Lakes.

A few years ago we got a letter from our Ins Co telling us that we were in a
FEMA designated flood zone and that we had to either buy our own flood
insurance or they would buy it for us.

It would take a flood of biblical proportions for my house to flood due to
a storm. Houses that are less than a mile from me would be completely
submerged before my house even got wet.

I called the Ins Co and was told that it was basically a mistake by their IT
department. A small coding error caused the letter to be sent to *everyone*
that had a mortgage with the company.

Here's the kicker: It took them over 3 months to inform us, by letter, that
the first letter was in error.

I wonder how many people bought flood insurance based on the letter because
they didn't know any better. I also wonder what happened when they tried to
cancel it. Would the Ins Co's refund them the 3 months of premiums? Would
they charge them a penalty?

On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 11:32:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:13:26 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:58 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 10:37:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 10:26 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:55:00 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/7/2017 9:47 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:29:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:41:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/6/2017 2:12 PM, wrote:

Lots of rich folks (and businesses) have mortgages that they could pay off
this afternoon if they wanted to.

Oh, hell, I could have done that some time back but why bother?


To keep from having to make a money transfer or write another check.
Even automatic transfers can screw up. And if you are paying interest
at all it is costing you money to keep the mortgage.

Sure, my payment to the power company can screw up, too. So what? The
cost of money is so low, it doesn't matter.

Our builder knocked an additional $5K off the price of our house for
paying cash plus no extra expense for mortgage insurance, or mandatory
flood insurance.

Why did your builder care?

The builder does not have to pay extra points for loan qualification.

Why would the builder pay points on your loan?

Ok, this is getting kind'a silly. Often a builder will pay points to
lower the mortgage or to simply help with the expenses of the mortgage
approval, this happened with our first home. Builders ALWAYS pay points
to close the deal. If your builder did not you were had.

That's absurd. I shop mortgages for myself. Why would I take their
financing?

I don't know what you would do or what you might be thinking. And this
would work with whom ever you chose to use for financing. There are
costs involved with obtaining a home loan other than simply paying back
the P&I.

Huh? None of the costs have anything to do with the builder (or
anyone else you may buy a house from). If the builder is buying down
the interest to make his house look more attractive, well, just do it
yourself. The point is that the builder is getting a wad of cash. He
doesn't care if it's coming from you or a bank. Any "discounts" for
cash are just come-ons.

Anyway here is how our sale went. After negotiating and agreeing to the
the price to build the home the salesman asked if we already had an
approved loan. I said that we intended to pay cash. Well Mr. Leon you
get an extra $5K off of your negotiated price.

If you need further details I suggest you visit DRHorton.com

So the analogy is to take dealer financing on cars? In almost all
cases, that's silly.


I said nothing about taking anyone's financing. The builder wanted to
know if I was preapproved. The discount he gave us was for not having
to participate, to compete with the builder next door, with buying down
percentage points, loan origination fees, appraisals for the loan, extra
surveys for the loan, etc.

So he didn't give you anything (for purchasing with cash). He would
have given the same deal to anyone who walked in with financing.



What I said above. We got an additional $5K discount after the
negotiated price for paying cash.

trying not to flog a deceased equine further ...but you would have
gotten exactly the same deal if you had &megabank write the check.
It's all cash to the contractor.


The bank is not going to take your word for it and hand you a check for
X dollars to build a new home. They send the check to the closing/title
company.

Irrelevant. The point is that the builder gets the same money either
way.

The builder has to pay title companies, surveyors, appraisers, and
attorneys to get all the paper work together to prove that the house is
worth the risk and to insure that the home meets certain standards to
qualify for the loan.

All irrelevant. ...or are you saying that you would buy a house on
unsurveyed property?

Now if you borrow against other collateral or get a home equity loan and
use t6hat to build a house then it would not matter to the builder.

On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 11:19:14 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 9:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 20:46:30 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:20:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 4/8/2017 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 10:40:15 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2017 09:57:35 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Where is floods all the time.

If you can't buy flood insurance you should take that as a warning.

If you are in a flood zone A - C, your mortgage provider will require
flood insurance, if you do not they will get it for you. The
difference when we were on the edge of a C zone, from us buy and them
providing was over $300 a year.

It's the same for fire insurance. We had a mortgage company that was
trying their best to force us to buy fire insurance from them (they
refused my company's documentation and were automatically billing us).
Their automatic charge was 5x the norm. That wasn't the only BS they
were pulling, either. Scum.



If you settle for letting the mortgage company buy insurance for you,
you get what you deserve. You can simply buy from whom you want and
cancel the higher policy, the mortgage company can not do anything about
that. They can how ever require you to have the insurance and will
insure that you do by increasing your escrow to pay for it.
If your insurance company provides proof the mortgage company has to
adjust your escrow
Up here buying mortgage insurance is WAY more expensive than buying
declining benefit term insurance from a life insurance company. 20
year mortgage? Buy 20 year term insurance. Iven straight term is less
expensive than martgage insurance

And it's not required, by law. That's not to say that life insurance
is bad, just that the mortgage company cannot compel you to buy it.


Well the mortgage company can compel you to buy it by turning you down
for the loan or not.

No, they can't.

On 4/9/2017 6:28 PM, wrote:

trying not to flog a deceased equine further ...but you would have
gotten exactly the same deal if you had &megabank write the check.
It's all cash to the contractor.


The bank is not going to take your word for it and hand you a check for
X dollars to build a new home. They send the check to the closing/title
company.

Irrelevant. The point is that the builder gets the same money either
way.

Look, I am only telling what the builder told me. I got the $5,000
discount for paying cash and not involving a mortgage company. This
obviously saves the builder money. Seriously, why else would the
builder offer me and additional $5,000 off after the negotiated price?





The builder has to pay title companies, surveyors, appraisers, and
attorneys to get all the paper work together to prove that the house is
worth the risk and to insure that the home meets certain standards to
qualify for the loan.

All irrelevant. ...or are you saying that you would buy a house on
unsurveyed property?

No, you are going off on a tangent again.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 12:03:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/9/2017 6:28 PM, wrote:

trying not to flog a deceased equine further ...but you would have
gotten exactly the same deal if you had &megabank write the check.
It's all cash to the contractor.


The bank is not going to take your word for it and hand you a check for
X dollars to build a new home. They send the check to the closing/title
company.

Irrelevant. The point is that the builder gets the same money either
way.

Look, I am only telling what the builder told me. I got the $5,000
discount for paying cash and not involving a mortgage company. This
obviously saves the builder money. Seriously, why else would the
builder offer me and additional $5,000 off after the negotiated price?

....and I'll bet you would have gotten the same deal if you'd walked in
with a check from &megabank.


The builder has to pay title companies, surveyors, appraisers, and
attorneys to get all the paper work together to prove that the house is
worth the risk and to insure that the home meets certain standards to
qualify for the loan.

All irrelevant. ...or are you saying that you would buy a house on
unsurveyed property?

No, you are going off on a tangent again.

Not a tangent at all. Those are fixed costs. You're paying them
whether you have a mortgage or not. ...or pretty dumb not to.

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:20:31 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
stuff has come out that shop.

The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.

His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
his new house is ready.

What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
rage these days, why not stage a shop?

So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his woodworking
shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac, some boxes and paint
cans and other assorted odds and ends.

The only pictures of the basement are of the room that used to be his shop.
The main basement, with the washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, etc. is
not included in the listing pictures.

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg

The listing includes the words:

WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
room could be used for. ;-)

On 4/26/2017 11:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:20:31 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
stuff has come out that shop.

The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.

His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
his new house is ready.

What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
rage these days, why not stage a shop?

So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his woodworking
shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac, some boxes and paint
cans and other assorted odds and ends.

The only pictures of the basement are of the room that used to be his shop.
The main basement, with the washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, etc. is
not included in the listing pictures.

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg

The listing includes the words:

WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
room could be used for. ;-)


Nice size for a shop but if they don't show the rest it looks small
overall. It would be more attractive had he put some rock up on the
ceiling and would have brightened his shop.

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 11:20:56 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:


The listing includes the words:

WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
room could be used for. ;-)

ha!! after all that..

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
the room could be used for. ;-)

the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
bigger

On 4/26/2017 11:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:20:31 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
stuff has come out that shop.

The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.

His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
his new house is ready.

What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
rage these days, why not stage a shop?

So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his woodworking
shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac, some boxes and paint
cans and other assorted odds and ends.

The only pictures of the basement are of the room that used to be his shop.
The main basement, with the washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, etc. is
not included in the listing pictures.

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg

The listing includes the words:

WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
room could be used for. ;-)


yep, but it looks big... ... stupid stuff all this window dressing.
when will people stop falling for it.. People have lives. they live.
Apparently no one has an imagination anymore.



--
Jeff

On 4/27/2017 12:09 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
the room could be used for. ;-)

the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
bigger











It's all BULL **** window dressing for idiots

--
Jeff

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:52:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/26/2017 11:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:20:31 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
stuff has come out that shop.

The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.

His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
his new house is ready.

What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
rage these days, why not stage a shop?

So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his woodworking
shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac, some boxes and paint
cans and other assorted odds and ends.

The only pictures of the basement are of the room that used to be his shop.
The main basement, with the washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, etc. is
not included in the listing pictures.

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/...1000000000.jpg

The listing includes the words:

WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
room could be used for. ;-)


Nice size for a shop but if they don't show the rest it looks small
overall. It would be more attractive had he put some rock up on the
ceiling and would have brightened his shop.

I certainly wouldn't want a drywall basement ceiling. The access to
electrical and plumbing is too valuable. Put in a drop ceiling, if
you must.

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:47:39 -0400
woodchucker wrote:

It's all BULL **** window dressing for idiots

the techniques are meant to appeal to the base emotions or responses

sometimes called the reptilian brain

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his
woodworking shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac,
some boxes and paint cans and other assorted odds and ends.

how is he coping without doing some woodworking

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:09:02 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
the room could be used for. ;-)

the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
bigger

There is a limit to that. There should be enough in a room to make it
look useful but not enough to make it junky. A lot of people can't
"see" their bed in an empty room. OTOH, if there is a queen bed in
the room, it's a lot easier to imagine your king in the same room.
There is a reason people pay big money to stage homes.

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:03:56 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:09:02 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
the room could be used for. ;-)

the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
bigger

There is a limit to that. There should be enough in a room to make it
look useful but not enough to make it junky. A lot of people can't
"see" their bed in an empty room. OTOH, if there is a queen bed in
the room, it's a lot easier to imagine your king in the same room.
There is a reason people pay big money to stage homes.
Total waste of money in this local market where there are multiple
bids on virtually every listing, and they usually sell way over listed
price - with no conditions, and often sight unseen. Crazy I know, but
that's the market in the Greater Golden Horseshoe.

On 2017-04-27 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:03:56 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:09:02 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
the room could be used for. ;-)

the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
bigger

There is a limit to that. There should be enough in a room to make it
look useful but not enough to make it junky. A lot of people can't
"see" their bed in an empty room. OTOH, if there is a queen bed in
the room, it's a lot easier to imagine your king in the same room.
There is a reason people pay big money to stage homes.
Total waste of money in this local market where there are multiple
bids on virtually every listing, and they usually sell way over listed
price - with no conditions, and often sight unseen. Crazy I know, but
that's the market in the Greater Golden Horseshoe.

Yep, I own a house in Toronto, it is crazy to see the the listed price,
and then hear the selling price. The last one on my street went over
120K over asking.

--
Froz....

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:18:15 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2017-04-27 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:03:56 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:09:02 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
the room could be used for. ;-)

the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
bigger

There is a limit to that. There should be enough in a room to make it
look useful but not enough to make it junky. A lot of people can't
"see" their bed in an empty room. OTOH, if there is a queen bed in
the room, it's a lot easier to imagine your king in the same room.
There is a reason people pay big money to stage homes.
Total waste of money in this local market where there are multiple
bids on virtually every listing, and they usually sell way over listed
price - with no conditions, and often sight unseen. Crazy I know, but
that's the market in the Greater Golden Horseshoe.

Yep, I own a house in Toronto, it is crazy to see the the listed price,
and then hear the selling price. The last one on my street went over
120K over asking.

A friend sold his house in Waterloo to a Toronto couple - first offer
- $75K over asking, no conditions cash offer - - -