Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits

Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits

Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.

Bad Dog bites back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYKgVJ2uGs

On 3/10/2017 9:58 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits

Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.

Bad Dog bites back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYKgVJ2uGs


Is it too late to take them back? Have you tried them out yet?

As mentioned in the other post, Bad Dog Tools sells a very similar
product. And those bits must be bait ans switch.
They were terrible.

I bought a set about 6 years ago and dried drilling the a hole in a
Stanley L bracket. About 1/8" thick. I could not drill through it at
all, and actually broke one of the bits trying to do so. I returned
them the next day. The excuse was that I was not drilling through
hardened steel. I guess soft steel is harder than hardened steel,
according to them.

They also had a life time warranty, send the broken or dull bit back and
they sharpen or replace it. After breaking one on first use I figure
most will be lost between me and the dealer.

Also these things are no good for wood, they are not precision made.

So I figured I paid some where around $100 for a $5 set of bits.

Seriously, try them out before loosing the chance to return them.

I hope they do well for you but,,,,,

On 3/10/2017 8:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


Is it too late to take them back? Have you tried them out yet?

As mentioned in the other post, Bad Dog Tools sells a very similar
product. And those bits must be bait ans switch.
They were terrible.

I bought a set about 6 years ago and dried drilling the a hole in a
Stanley L bracket. About 1/8" thick. I could not drill through it at
all, and actually broke one of the bits trying to do so. I returned
them the next day. The excuse was that I was not drilling through
hardened steel. I guess soft steel is harder than hardened steel,
according to them.

They also had a life time warranty, send the broken or dull bit back and
they sharpen or replace it. After breaking one on first use I figure
most will be lost between me and the dealer.

Also these things are no good for wood, they are not precision made.

So I figured I paid some where around $100 for a $5 set of bits.

Seriously, try them out before loosing the chance to return them.

I hope they do well for you but,,,,,

On 3/10/17 10:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2017 9:58 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville
Home & Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking
show, per se, but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door
hardware source that is right in my little town that can get
special orders overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet
door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in
Nashville that makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and
router bits... router bits that can be used on solid surface
materials, aluminum, marble, etc. This company also makes
all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard cutter head material
that can bore through porcelain tiles right after cutting through
hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and drilled
through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show
price of $100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits




Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I
added up what I spent in bits last year just for putting up
safety grab bars on tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on
average, $17/ea for ceramic bits and upwards of $30 for diamond
bits and none of them lasted longer than 2 jobs. I was just
figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now I don't have to
worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional
replacement guarantee. For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the
bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-) I'll do a follow-up
after I've put some of these bits through some hard work.

Bad Dog bites back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYKgVJ2uGs


Is it too late to take them back? Have you tried them out yet?

As mentioned in the other post, Bad Dog Tools sells a very similar
product. And those bits must be bait ans switch. They were
terrible.

I bought a set about 6 years ago and dried drilling the a hole in a
Stanley L bracket. About 1/8" thick. I could not drill through it
at all, and actually broke one of the bits trying to do so. I
returned them the next day. The excuse was that I was not drilling
through hardened steel. I guess soft steel is harder than hardened
steel, according to them.

They also had a life time warranty, send the broken or dull bit back
and they sharpen or replace it. After breaking one on first use I
figure most will be lost between me and the dealer.

Also these things are no good for wood, they are not precision made.

So I figured I paid some where around $100 for a $5 set of bits.

Seriously, try them out before loosing the chance to return them.

I hope they do well for you but,,,,,


Well, I will have plenty of opportunity to use them and they have a 60
day money-back guarantee so I'll pay close attention.

I have plenty of wood bits and I'm specifically looking for bits for very
hard tiles. I'll see how they work on some left-over ceramic and
porcelain tiles I have and if they work, they work. If not, I'll return
them.

Funny thing is the mad dog website is non-existent so I'm not sure what
happened with them.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/10/17 10:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/10/2017 9:58 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville
Home & Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking
show, per se, but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door
hardware source that is right in my little town that can get
special orders overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet
door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in
Nashville that makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and
router bits... router bits that can be used on solid surface
materials, aluminum, marble, etc. This company also makes
all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard cutter head material
that can bore through porcelain tiles right after cutting through
hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and drilled
through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show
price of $100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits




Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I
added up what I spent in bits last year just for putting up
safety grab bars on tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on
average, $17/ea for ceramic bits and upwards of $30 for diamond
bits and none of them lasted longer than 2 jobs. I was just
figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now I don't have to
worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional
replacement guarantee. For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the
bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-) I'll do a follow-up
after I've put some of these bits through some hard work.

Bad Dog bites back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYKgVJ2uGs


Is it too late to take them back? Have you tried them out yet?

As mentioned in the other post, Bad Dog Tools sells a very similar
product. And those bits must be bait ans switch. They were
terrible.

I bought a set about 6 years ago and dried drilling the a hole in a
Stanley L bracket. About 1/8" thick. I could not drill through it
at all, and actually broke one of the bits trying to do so. I
returned them the next day. The excuse was that I was not drilling
through hardened steel. I guess soft steel is harder than hardened
steel, according to them.

They also had a life time warranty, send the broken or dull bit back
and they sharpen or replace it. After breaking one on first use I
figure most will be lost between me and the dealer.

Also these things are no good for wood, they are not precision made.

So I figured I paid some where around $100 for a $5 set of bits.

Seriously, try them out before loosing the chance to return them.

I hope they do well for you but,,,,,


Oh btw, thanks for the heads up. I will definitely put them through
their paces and if they aren't up to snuff the company will suffer my
wrath. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything official
from them.
Website is down and someone on Amazon with their name is selling
left-overs of only two products.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything official
from them.
Website is down and someone on Amazon with their name is selling
left-overs of only two products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of busniess. Hard
to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l'
http://milnertools.com/

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@
4ax.com, says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything official
from them.
Website is down and someone on Amazon with their name is selling
left-overs of only two products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of busniess. Hard
to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l'
http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a
file that _you_ provide so you can be sure that
they actually perform on real files and not
file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@
4ax.com, says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything official
from them.
Website is down and someone on Amazon with their name is selling
left-overs of only two products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of busniess. Hard
to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l'
http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a
file that _you_ provide so you can be sure that
they actually perform on real files and not
file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

IF there was a magic drill material available that would handle abuse
like that, EVERY large bit manufacturer (Bosch, Milwaukee, Dewalt etc)
would rush to it immediately. Some trade show demos are like a carnival
hawker's magic show in that you aren't really seeing what it seems you
are seeing.

On 2017-03-11, J. Clarke wrote:

That said, before buying ask them to drill a
file that _you_ provide so you can be sure that
they actually perform on real files and not
file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

Sounds like the Buck knife fiasco.

Many yrs ago, Buck Knives usta show a Buck knife cutting thru a bolt.
Mine was their largest sheath knife and the logo, showing a Buck knife
cutting thru a bolt, was machine tooled right into the leather sheath.

They later admitted it hadda be a grade 2 or lower bolt and the knife
hadda be hammered thru the bolt. NO grade 5 or 8 bolts, allowed, for
which they would not honor their guarantee. They had so many claims
against them for chipped blades, they dropped both the logo and the
guarantee.

nb

On 3/11/17 6:35 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@ 4ax.com,
says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the
Nashville Home & Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's
not a woodworking show, per se, but it was still pretty
terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A
door hardware source that is right in my little town that
can get special orders overnight and they are starting to
carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in
Nashville that makes really great cutting blades, drill
bits, and router bits... router bits that can be used on
solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc. This
company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very
hard cutter head material that can bore through porcelain
tiles right after cutting through hardened tool metals.
The guy took the same bit and drilled through a grade 8
bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting head, then
straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the
show price of $100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits




Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too,
until I added up what I spent in bits last year just for
putting up safety grab bars on tiled bathroom walls. I
probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic bits and
upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted
longer than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the
bit into the job. Now I don't have to worry about having
the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional
replacement guarantee. For 2 bucks shipping, they replace
the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-) I'll do a
follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some
hard work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG
drill bits. Same thing. They were at the wood working
shows. Doing the files, tiles, etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything
official from them. Website is down and someone on Amazon with
their name is selling left-overs of only two products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of busniess.
Hard to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l' http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a file that _you_
provide so you can be sure that they actually perform on real files
and not file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

IF there was a magic drill material available that would handle
abuse like that, EVERY large bit manufacturer (Bosch, Milwaukee,
Dewalt etc) would rush to it immediately. Some trade show demos are
like a carnival hawker's magic show in that you aren't really seeing
what it seems you are seeing.


Welp, I tried them out.
I took one and drilled through a porcelain tile that took me about
10-15minutes to go through with a diamond bit. It worked fine and took
about 4-5 minutes with water cooling.

I then I took the same bit to some typical, hardware store, cold rolled,
bar stock.
Took about 30 seconds to even make a dent. A 30cent steel bit would've
gone through it in about 15 seconds.

So I got had. No big deal. I'll get my money back and chalk the
inconvenience up to stupid tax. Had a great day off with the wife and
enjoyed our time together.

I'll tell you this, though. If they give me any trouble at all, they
will suffer my wrath like no one can imagine. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 00:35:00 +0000, Spalted Walt
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@
4ax.com, says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the Nashville Home &
Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's not a woodworking show, per se,
but it was still pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A door hardware
source that is right in my little town that can get special orders
overnight and they are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in Nashville that
makes really great cutting blades, drill bits, and router bits... router
bits that can be used on solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc.
This company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard
cutter head material that can bore through porcelain tiles right after
cutting through hardened tool metals. The guy took the same bit and
drilled through a grade 8 bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting
head, then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the show price of
$100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits


Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too, until I added up
what I spent in bits last year just for putting up safety grab bars on
tiled bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic
bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted longer
than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional replacement
guarantee.
For 2 bucks shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-)
I'll do a follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some hard
work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG drill bits.
Same thing. They were at the wood working shows. Doing the files, tiles,
etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything official
from them.
Website is down and someone on Amazon with their name is selling
left-overs of only two products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of busniess. Hard
to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l'
http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a
file that _you_ provide so you can be sure that
they actually perform on real files and not
file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

IF there was a magic drill material available that would handle abuse
like that, EVERY large bit manufacturer (Bosch, Milwaukee, Dewalt etc)
would rush to it immediately. Some trade show demos are like a carnival
hawker's magic show in that you aren't really seeing what it seems you
are seeing.

No, they'd buy up the patents and bury them in a mayonnaise jar under
Funk and Wagnalls' porch, like the oil companies did with the 200MPG
carburators.

On 3/11/2017 7:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/11/17 6:35 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@ 4ax.com,
says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by the
Nashville Home & Remodeling Show this afternoon. It's
not a woodworking show, per se, but it was still pretty
terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however. A
door hardware source that is right in my little town that
can get special orders overnight and they are starting to
carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company right in
Nashville that makes really great cutting blades, drill
bits, and router bits... router bits that can be used on
solid surface materials, aluminum, marble, etc. This
company also makes all-purpose drill bits from very, very
hard cutter head material that can bore through porcelain
tiles right after cutting through hardened tool metals.
The guy took the same bit and drilled through a grade 8
bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting head, then
straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at the
show price of $100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits





Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought, too,
until I added up what I spent in bits last year just for
putting up safety grab bars on tiled bathroom walls. I
probably spend on average, $17/ea for ceramic bits and
upwards of $30 for diamond bits and none of them lasted
longer than 2 jobs. I was just figuring the cost of the
bit into the job. Now I don't have to worry about having
the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME, unconditional
replacement guarantee. For 2 bucks shipping, they replace
the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-) I'll do a
follow-up after I've put some of these bits through some
hard work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG
drill bits. Same thing. They were at the wood working
shows. Doing the files, tiles, etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find anything
official from them. Website is down and someone on Amazon with
their name is selling left-overs of only two products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of busniess.
Hard to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l' http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a file that _you_
provide so you can be sure that they actually perform on real files
and not file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

IF there was a magic drill material available that would handle
abuse like that, EVERY large bit manufacturer (Bosch, Milwaukee,
Dewalt etc) would rush to it immediately. Some trade show demos are
like a carnival hawker's magic show in that you aren't really seeing
what it seems you are seeing.


Welp, I tried them out.
I took one and drilled through a porcelain tile that took me about
10-15minutes to go through with a diamond bit. It worked fine and took
about 4-5 minutes with water cooling.

I then I took the same bit to some typical, hardware store, cold rolled,
bar stock.
Took about 30 seconds to even make a dent. A 30cent steel bit would've
gone through it in about 15 seconds.

Sounds like my exact same experience.


So I got had. No big deal. I'll get my money back and chalk the
inconvenience up to stupid tax. Had a great day off with the wife and
enjoyed our time together.

I'll tell you this, though. If they give me any trouble at all, they
will suffer my wrath like no one can imagine. :-)

On 3/12/17 6:32 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/11/2017 7:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/11/17 6:35 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@ 4ax.com,
says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by
the Nashville Home & Remodeling Show this afternoon.
It's not a woodworking show, per se, but it was still
pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however.
A door hardware source that is right in my little
town that can get special orders overnight and they
are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company
right in Nashville that makes really great cutting
blades, drill bits, and router bits... router bits
that can be used on solid surface materials,
aluminum, marble, etc. This company also makes
all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard cutter
head material that can bore through porcelain tiles
right after cutting through hardened tool metals. The
guy took the same bit and drilled through a grade 8
bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting head,
then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain
tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at
the show price of $100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits








Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought,
too, until I added up what I spent in bits last year
just for putting up safety grab bars on tiled
bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea
for ceramic bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits
and none of them lasted longer than 2 jobs. I was
just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME,
unconditional replacement guarantee. For 2 bucks
shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-) I'll do a
follow-up after I've put some of these bits through
some hard work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG
drill bits. Same thing. They were at the wood working
shows. Doing the files, tiles, etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find
anything official from them. Website is down and someone on
Amazon with their name is selling left-overs of only two
products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of
busniess. Hard to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l' http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a file that _you_
provide so you can be sure that they actually perform on real
files and not file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

IF there was a magic drill material available that would handle
abuse like that, EVERY large bit manufacturer (Bosch, Milwaukee,
Dewalt etc) would rush to it immediately. Some trade show demos
are like a carnival hawker's magic show in that you aren't really
seeing what it seems you are seeing.


Welp, I tried them out. I took one and drilled through a porcelain
tile that took me about 10-15minutes to go through with a diamond
bit. It worked fine and took about 4-5 minutes with water
cooling.

I then I took the same bit to some typical, hardware store, cold
rolled, bar stock. Took about 30 seconds to even make a dent. A
30cent steel bit would've gone through it in about 15 seconds.

Sounds like my exact same experience.


I haven't thrown in the towel yet.
I actually talked to a rep on the phone for quite a while yesterday. He
explained some things about the bits that did make sense. I won't go
into too many details until I run them through some more paces.

The short version is that bits for soft steel and meant to cut/slice like
bits for wood, and run at higher speeds. Bits for very hard materials are
meant to scrape, not slice. Softer materials don't "scrape" well.

That is a very condensed version of his explanation and it did make a
lot of sense. However, as I said, I'm going to do a lot more test
driving and have 60 days to do it.

The bottom line on these bits is that I bought them specifically for
drilling through porcelain, fired, tiles and they have performed pretty
well at that. If they continue to do so and I can send them back for
replacement when they dull, then they are worth every penny to me, since
I've spent a lot more in the past year on ceramic bits than I did for
this set.

I will keep everyone updated. :-D


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 8:13:55 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/12/17 6:32 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/11/2017 7:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/11/17 6:35 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ros8cchrufpfgnoam5tsgb446usf0n8mkt@ 4ax.com,
says...

-MIKE- wrote:

On 3/11/17 1:52 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

On 3/10/2017 9:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Speaking of bad woodworking shows.... I stopped by
the Nashville Home & Remodeling Show this afternoon.
It's not a woodworking show, per se, but it was still
pretty terrible.

There were a couple of saving grace booths, however.
A door hardware source that is right in my little
town that can get special orders overnight and they
are starting to carry cabinet door hinges.

The second was a specialty bit and blade company
right in Nashville that makes really great cutting
blades, drill bits, and router bits... router bits
that can be used on solid surface materials,
aluminum, marble, etc. This company also makes
all-purpose drill bits from very, very hard cutter
head material that can bore through porcelain tiles
right after cutting through hardened tool metals. The
guy took the same bit and drilled through a grade 8
bolt, and metal file, a metal lathe cutting head,
then straight to concrete, ceramic and porcelain
tiles.

I was very impressed and bought this pack of bits at
the show price of $100.
https://millnertools.com/collections...ose-drill-bits








Now, I know what you're thinking. "A hundred bucks for a 13 pack of
drill bits!!" Well, yeah, that's what I thought,
too, until I added up what I spent in bits last year
just for putting up safety grab bars on tiled
bathroom walls. I probably spend on average, $17/ea
for ceramic bits and upwards of $30 for diamond bits
and none of them lasted longer than 2 jobs. I was
just figuring the cost of the bit into the job. Now
I don't have to worry about having the right bits.

Best part about these bits.... LIFETIME,
unconditional replacement guarantee. For 2 bucks
shipping, they replace the bit, no questions asked.

Oh, and did I mention they're GREEN? :-) I'll do a
follow-up after I've put some of these bits through
some hard work.


There was a company about 8 years ago, I think BAD DOG
drill bits. Same thing. They were at the wood working
shows. Doing the files, tiles, etc.

Yes it was Bad Dog Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QEZ6uAwlc


I wonder if they went under, because it's hard to find
anything official from them. Website is down and someone on
Amazon with their name is selling left-overs of only two
products.

Their web server could be down or they might be out of
busniess. Hard to say for sure.

This Joe Strong web site still works ;-)

note the single 'l' http://milnertools.com/

Bad dog seems to be back up.

That said, before buying ask them to drill a file that _you_
provide so you can be sure that they actually perform on real
files and not file-like objects made of, say, cheese.

IF there was a magic drill material available that would handle
abuse like that, EVERY large bit manufacturer (Bosch, Milwaukee,
Dewalt etc) would rush to it immediately. Some trade show demos
are like a carnival hawker's magic show in that you aren't really
seeing what it seems you are seeing.


Welp, I tried them out. I took one and drilled through a porcelain
tile that took me about 10-15minutes to go through with a diamond
bit. It worked fine and took about 4-5 minutes with water
cooling.

I then I took the same bit to some typical, hardware store, cold
rolled, bar stock. Took about 30 seconds to even make a dent. A
30cent steel bit would've gone through it in about 15 seconds.

Sounds like my exact same experience.


I haven't thrown in the towel yet.
I actually talked to a rep on the phone for quite a while yesterday. He
explained some things about the bits that did make sense. I won't go
into too many details until I run them through some more paces.

The short version is that bits for soft steel and meant to cut/slice like
bits for wood, and run at higher speeds. Bits for very hard materials are
meant to scrape, not slice. Softer materials don't "scrape" well.

That is a very condensed version of his explanation and it did make a
lot of sense. However, as I said, I'm going to do a lot more test
driving and have 60 days to do it.

The bottom line on these bits is that I bought them specifically for
drilling through porcelain, fired, tiles and they have performed pretty
well at that. If they continue to do so and I can send them back for
replacement when they dull, then they are worth every penny to me, since
I've spent a lot more in the past year on ceramic bits than I did for
this set.

I will keep everyone updated. :-D


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I noticed at the WW show I attended (Bad Dog Tools exhibit) the salesman used a very high speed drill, (over 1500 rpm)...no idea whether it was just an inexpensive drill, or a PED (performance enhancing device)

On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 6:50:38 PM UTC-6, notbob wrote:

Sounds like the Buck knife fiasco.

Many yrs ago, Buck Knives usta show a Buck knife cutting thru a bolt.
Mine was their largest sheath knife and the logo, showing a Buck knife
cutting thru a bolt, was machine tooled right into the leather sheath.

They later admitted it hadda be a grade 2 or lower bolt and the knife
hadda be hammered thru the bolt. NO grade 5 or 8 bolts, allowed, for
which they would not honor their guarantee. They had so many claims
against them for chipped blades, they dropped both the logo and the
guarantee.

I remember that well. I got my first Buck in about '69, and that was indeed on the box. A lot of press was played out as Hoyt Buck simply couldn't fathom the profound stupidity of the American public. While the Buck knife (especially the 119)was sometimes demoed as being able to cut through a bolt, it was indeed a soft bolt, and it was rolled around and tapped on with a hammer to cut a bit at a time. It was simply a demo to show how well the heat treat was done on the steels, and how tough the steel was. It was never marketed as a bolt or steel cutter, never intended for a mechanic or a welder to use it to trim metal pieces or chop through steel rods or bolts as its job.

Enter the American idiot. Guys were out there taking a slicing tool and hitting it with heavy hammers to chop through bolts. They had to see if the knife "could take it". No knife guys did that (including me) but were simply satisfied that as a knife it could take some punishment. Finally, poor Hoyt (Buck) realized that there were too many idiots to account for and it was rumored, never proven, that he decided to change the logo to keep down the problems. Mine still goes into the field hunting and camping, but then I never had the urge to cut bolts with it, and never would have dreamed of cutting a structurally graded bolt that might be harder than the knife. Been a great knife, though.

But that follows in the long line of stupid. The famous case of the moron that got drunk and ripped his Trans Am over the top of bridge actually occurred here. His lawyers (Pat Maloney and Associates) maintained their client thought he bought a stunt car, one that could fly, was indestructible,one that would give him special stunt skills. After all, he did see Smokey and the Bandit several times (quoted in court) and that movie was the reason he bought the Trans Am. Maloney was able to convince GM, the movie studio and some affiliates to settle out of court since indeed, their client had seen that in a movie and was personally convinced what he saw was real. It is a wonder that he didn't expect Sally Fields to come with the car.

I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if they bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a Superman suit for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans - can't bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course you can.

A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A hundred years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now watches are "water resistant" since so many made it a point to test limits of their watch. After all, they were covered by warranty since the manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen utensils, some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising begging for internet testers to be able to make their mark on YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to tell people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it would probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal department.

Robert

On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip


I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if they
bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a Superman suit
for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans - can't
bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course you can.


A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A hundred
years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now watches are
"water resistant" since so many made it a point to test limits of
their watch. After all, they were covered by warranty since the
manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen utensils,
some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising begging for
internet testers to be able to make their mark on YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to tell
people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it would
probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal department.

Robert


Sooooo. It is not hard to imagine the disappointment, when I was 9, that
my new PF Flyers did not enable me to jump over a fence or the street. ;~)

Your examples and mine, when I was 9, probably disappointed a lot of
people with still under developed brains.

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer warning
label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there? I never did
believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or my new shovel.
I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on California Oranges or the
"Welcome to California" sign as you cross over from Arizona on I10. ;~)

And Mike, not poking fun at you, I bought those bits too. I do recall
the bits at the show looked a lot nicer than the ones that I was handed.
And while they do have an answer that the bits are intended for hard
steel vs soft steel, they were selling the bits at a woodworking show
not a metal working show. They darn well knew that these bits would
most likely be sold to home owners that were not likely to drill into
hardened steel or files. I'm still not buying it. FWIW the bits that I
got home with were Bad Dog Tools, made in China.

On 3/13/17 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip


I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if they
bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a Superman
suit for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans - can't
bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course you
can.


A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A
hundred years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now
watches are "water resistant" since so many made it a point to test
limits of their watch. After all, they were covered by warranty
since the manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen
utensils, some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising begging
for internet testers to be able to make their mark on YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to
tell people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it
would probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal
department.

Robert


Sooooo. It is not hard to imagine the disappointment, when I was 9,
that my new PF Flyers did not enable me to jump over a fence or the
street. ;~)

Your examples and mine, when I was 9, probably disappointed a lot of
people with still under developed brains.

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer warning
label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there? I never
did believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or my new
shovel. I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on California
Oranges or the "Welcome to California" sign as you cross over from
Arizona on I10. ;~)

And Mike, not poking fun at you, I bought those bits too. I do
recall the bits at the show looked a lot nicer than the ones that I
was handed. And while they do have an answer that the bits are
intended for hard steel vs soft steel, they were selling the bits at
a woodworking show not a metal working show. They darn well knew
that these bits would most likely be sold to home owners that were
not likely to drill into hardened steel or files. I'm still not
buying it. FWIW the bits that I got home with were Bad Dog Tools,
made in China.


As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on this one.
I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all that I forgot why
I wanted these in the first place-- to drill through porcelain and
granite, because I was spending a small fortune on tile bits and the
drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes through
a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing grab bars in
one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last and see how they
hold up.

It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought bits
to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits are worth
their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill through porcelain,
because of all the surface area actually being cut. (Think of the
geometry of them.)

So back to my original intent for buying these... to have bits that are
good at cutting through extremely hard materials, which will be replaced
for free when dulled. That was my single motivation for buying these.

I'll do the testing and go from there. Right now my gut tells me I'll
probably be getting a refund, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

" wrote in
:


I remember that well. I got my first Buck in about '69, and that was
indeed on the box. A lot of press was played out as Hoyt Buck simply
couldn't fathom the profound stupidity of the American public. While
the Buck knife (especially the 119)was sometimes demoed as being able
to cut through a bolt, it was indeed a soft bolt, and it was rolled
around and tapped on with a hammer to cut a bit at a time. It was
simply a demo to show how well the heat treat was done on the steels,
and how tough the steel was. It was never marketed as a bolt or steel
cutter, never intended for a mechanic or a welder to use it to trim
metal pieces or chop through steel rods or bolts as its job.

Enter the American idiot. Guys were out there taking a slicing tool
and hitting it with heavy hammers to chop through bolts. They had to
see if the knife "could take it". No knife guys did that (including
me) but were simply satisfied that as a knife it could take some
punishment. Finally, poor Hoyt (Buck) realized that there were too
many idiots to account for and it was rumored, never proven, that he
decided to change the logo to keep down the problems. Mine still goes
into the field hunting and camping, but then I never had the urge to
cut bolts with it, and never would have dreamed of cutting a
structurally graded bolt that might be harder than the knife. Been a
great knife, though.

But that follows in the long line of stupid. The famous case of the
moron that got drunk and ripped his Trans Am over the top of bridge
actually occurred here. His lawyers (Pat Maloney and Associates)
maintained their client thought he bought a stunt car, one that could
fly, was indestructible,one that would give him special stunt skills.
After all, he did see Smokey and the Bandit several times (quoted in
court) and that movie was the reason he bought the Trans Am. Maloney
was able to convince GM, the movie studio and some affiliates to
settle out of court since indeed, their client had seen that in a
movie and was personally convinced what he saw was real. It is a
wonder that he didn't expect Sally Fields to come with the car.

I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if they
bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a Superman suit
for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans - can't
bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course you can.

A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A hundred
years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now watches are
"water resistant" since so many made it a point to test limits of
their watch. After all, they were covered by warranty since the
manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen utensils,
some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising begging for internet
testers to be able to make their mark on YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to tell
people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it would
probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal department.

Robert

Let's take a look at this from the average person's point of view. They
learned steel exists in school, maybe Bessemer was somehow associated
with it, and they know from pickup trucks that steel is Ford Tough. You
show them an ad of a knife cutting through a bolt, and they might just
try it. To a person interested in this kind of stuff, the ad says "the
edge doesn't fail under this abuse". To the average person, the ad says
"look what it can do!"

Stupid? Sad? Maybe. Understandable?

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 3/13/2017 10:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/17 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip


I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if they
bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a Superman
suit for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans - can't
bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course you
can.


A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A
hundred years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now
watches are "water resistant" since so many made it a point to test
limits of their watch. After all, they were covered by warranty
since the manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen
utensils, some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising begging
for internet testers to be able to make their mark on YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to
tell people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it
would probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal
department.

Robert


Sooooo. It is not hard to imagine the disappointment, when I was 9,
that my new PF Flyers did not enable me to jump over a fence or the
street. ;~)

Your examples and mine, when I was 9, probably disappointed a lot of
people with still under developed brains.

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer warning
label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there? I never
did believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or my new
shovel. I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on California
Oranges or the "Welcome to California" sign as you cross over from
Arizona on I10. ;~)

And Mike, not poking fun at you, I bought those bits too. I do
recall the bits at the show looked a lot nicer than the ones that I
was handed. And while they do have an answer that the bits are
intended for hard steel vs soft steel, they were selling the bits at
a woodworking show not a metal working show. They darn well knew
that these bits would most likely be sold to home owners that were
not likely to drill into hardened steel or files. I'm still not
buying it. FWIW the bits that I got home with were Bad Dog Tools,
made in China.


As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on this one.
I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all that I forgot why
I wanted these in the first place-- to drill through porcelain and
granite, because I was spending a small fortune on tile bits and the
drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes through
a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing grab bars in
one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last and see how they
hold up.

I know that porcelain tiles are harder than ceramic. But that said,
porcelain is normally used of floors. Anyway I found that I could
easily drill through these ceramic bathroom bub tiles with a common
masonry bit IF I started a 1/8" pilot hole, which I started with a
carbide Dremel bit. Once I was through the outer/surface I cold easily
enlarge.





It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought bits
to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits are worth
their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill through porcelain,
because of all the surface area actually being cut. (Think of the
geometry of them.)

So back to my original intent for buying these... to have bits that are
good at cutting through extremely hard materials, which will be replaced
for free when dulled. That was my single motivation for buying these.

I'll do the testing and go from there. Right now my gut tells me I'll
probably be getting a refund, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.


I truly hope they work out for you.

On 3/13/17 2:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 10:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/17 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip


I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if
they bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a
Superman suit for Halloween that made them think they could
fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans -
can't bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of
course you can.


A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A
hundred years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now
watches are "water resistant" since so many made it a point to
test limits of their watch. After all, they were covered by
warranty since the manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen
utensils, some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising
begging for internet testers to be able to make their mark on
YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to
tell people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it
would probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal
department.

Robert


Sooooo. It is not hard to imagine the disappointment, when I was
9, that my new PF Flyers did not enable me to jump over a fence
or the street. ;~)

Your examples and mine, when I was 9, probably disappointed a lot
of people with still under developed brains.

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer
warning label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there?
I never did believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or
my new shovel. I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on
California Oranges or the "Welcome to California" sign as you
cross over from Arizona on I10. ;~)

And Mike, not poking fun at you, I bought those bits too. I do
recall the bits at the show looked a lot nicer than the ones that
I was handed. And while they do have an answer that the bits are
intended for hard steel vs soft steel, they were selling the bits
at a woodworking show not a metal working show. They darn well
knew that these bits would most likely be sold to home owners
that were not likely to drill into hardened steel or files. I'm
still not buying it. FWIW the bits that I got home with were Bad
Dog Tools, made in China.


As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on
this one. I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all
that I forgot why I wanted these in the first place-- to drill
through porcelain and granite, because I was spending a small
fortune on tile bits and the drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes
through a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing
grab bars in one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last
and see how they hold up.

I know that porcelain tiles are harder than ceramic. But that said,
porcelain is normally used of floors. Anyway I found that I could
easily drill through these ceramic bathroom bub tiles with a common
masonry bit IF I started a 1/8" pilot hole, which I started with a
carbide Dremel bit. Once I was through the outer/surface I cold
easily enlarge.


That's interesting and mirrors my recent experience with installing grab
bars.
I don't have the Dremel but I, too, was using a smaller bit to "go
through" then follwing up with the bigger, correct sized bit. The
process seemed to be faster than going all the way through with the
bigger bit.




It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought
bits to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits
are worth their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill
through porcelain, because of all the surface area actually being
cut. (Think of the geometry of them.)

So back to my original intent for buying these... to have bits that
are good at cutting through extremely hard materials, which will be
replaced for free when dulled. That was my single motivation for
buying these.

I'll do the testing and go from there. Right now my gut tells me
I'll probably be getting a refund, but I'm trying to keep an open
mind.


I truly hope they work out for you.

You and me, both. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

snip
On 3/13/17 9:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on this one.
I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all that I forgot why
I wanted these in the first place-- to drill through porcelain and
granite, because I was spending a small fortune on tile bits and the
drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes through
a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing grab bars in
one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last and see how they
hold up.

It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought bits
to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits are worth
their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill through porcelain,
because of all the surface area actually being cut. (Think of the
geometry of them.)


I use the cheap ($2-$3) diamond dust tipped hole saws all the time to
cut holes in glass/tile/ceramic (usually 1/2" to 1" diameter).

Never a problem, always goes fast. Of course I have the object submerged
in a pan of water and use my drill press.
Even after 100's of holes, the bits still cut fine.

When I did have to drill holes for a faucet on a finished shower, i held
a soaked sponge above the hole to keep the area flooded. It took longer
since I had to refill the sponge several times, but still the bit cut
cleanly and quick. For smaller holes (3/8") I always just used the
standard carbide bits with water.

The diamond hole saw bits also work wonderfully on stainless steel sink
cutouts.

-BR

On 3/17/17 8:44 AM, Brewster wrote:
snip
On 3/13/17 9:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on this one.
I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all that I forgot why
I wanted these in the first place-- to drill through porcelain and
granite, because I was spending a small fortune on tile bits and the
drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes through
a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing grab bars in
one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last and see how they
hold up.

It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought bits
to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits are worth
their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill through porcelain,
because of all the surface area actually being cut. (Think of the
geometry of them.)


I use the cheap ($2-$3) diamond dust tipped hole saws all the time to
cut holes in glass/tile/ceramic (usually 1/2" to 1" diameter).


Porcelain tiles are a much different animal.
Your typical white ceramic bathroom tile pretty much be cut through with
a bi-metal drill bit. :-)


Never a problem, always goes fast. Of course I have the object submerged
in a pan of water and use my drill press.
Even after 100's of holes, the bits still cut fine.

When I did have to drill holes for a faucet on a finished shower, i held
a soaked sponge above the hole to keep the area flooded. It took longer
since I had to refill the sponge several times, but still the bit cut
cleanly and quick. For smaller holes (3/8") I always just used the
standard carbide bits with water.

The diamond hole saw bits also work wonderfully on stainless steel sink
cutouts.

-BR


I'll keep that in mind.
I would not have thought to go to diamond, first, for stainless.
It probably cuts very smooth.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 3/13/17 10:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/17 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip


I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if
they bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a
Superman suit for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans -
can't bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course
you can.


A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A
hundred years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now
watches are "water resistant" since so many made it a point to
test limits of their watch. After all, they were covered by
warranty since the manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen
utensils, some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising
begging for internet testers to be able to make their mark on
YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to
tell people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it
would probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal
department.

Robert


Sooooo. It is not hard to imagine the disappointment, when I was
9, that my new PF Flyers did not enable me to jump over a fence or
the street. ;~)

Your examples and mine, when I was 9, probably disappointed a lot
of people with still under developed brains.

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer
warning label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there?
I never did believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or my
new shovel. I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on
California Oranges or the "Welcome to California" sign as you cross
over from Arizona on I10. ;~)

And Mike, not poking fun at you, I bought those bits too. I do
recall the bits at the show looked a lot nicer than the ones that
I was handed. And while they do have an answer that the bits are
intended for hard steel vs soft steel, they were selling the bits
at a woodworking show not a metal working show. They darn well
knew that these bits would most likely be sold to home owners that
were not likely to drill into hardened steel or files. I'm still
not buying it. FWIW the bits that I got home with were Bad Dog
Tools, made in China.


As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on this
one. I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all that I
forgot why I wanted these in the first place-- to drill through
porcelain and granite, because I was spending a small fortune on tile
bits and the drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes
through a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing
grab bars in one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last
and see how they hold up.

It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought
bits to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits are
worth their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill through
porcelain, because of all the surface area actually being cut.
(Think of the geometry of them.)

So back to my original intent for buying these... to have bits that
are good at cutting through extremely hard materials, which will be
replaced for free when dulled. That was my single motivation for
buying these.

I'll do the testing and go from there. Right now my gut tells me
I'll probably be getting a refund, but I'm trying to keep an open
mind.


The jury is in and they ruled in my favor for a full refund for these
bits. :-)
I did a LOT of testing with these bits and I determined there is nothing
special about them and in actually they perform worse than other brand
name bits that are less expensive in the long run.

So live and learn. It was a good experiment and hopefully anyone
looking at these bits can look in here and learn from my experience and
full testing of the product.

Bottom line: the company gave me a full refund so there's no fraud
involved, but buyer beware-- there's no magic involved with these bits.
They are just run-of-the-mill bits that work great for a couple holes,
then they dull and are pretty useless.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news
On 3/13/17 10:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/17 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer
warning label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there?
I never did believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or my
new shovel. I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on
California Oranges or the "Welcome to California" sign as you cross
over from Arizona on I10. ;~)

A while ago Lee Valley had enough of california's BS and put a disclaimer
in one of their catalogs to the effect of (I'm paraphrasing here)
"everything we sell is known to cause cancer in the state of california".
A beautiful response IMHO.
Art


-- Snip

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/17 10:57 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/17 8:26 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/13/2017 3:45 AM, wrote:

Snip


I am surprised that the American public didn't think that if
they bought a DeLorean they could time travel. Likewise, a
Superman suit for Halloween that made them think they could fly.

Other things that have changed with the times: "Lee Jeans -
can't bust 'em". That was throwing down the gauntlet. Of course
you can.


A watch that is "waterproof". How long is it waterproof? A
hundred years? Is it waterproof at 1000 feet underwater? Now
watches are "water resistant" since so many made it a point to
test limits of their watch. After all, they were covered by
warranty since the manufacturer said waterproof.

How many things used to be "unbreakable"? Combs, kitchen
utensils, some tools, etc. Now that is a label advertising
begging for internet testers to be able to make their mark on
YouTube.

I thought it was really stupid (and very sad) that Buck had to
tell people not to cut bolts with their hunting knife. Now it
would probably be considered only prudent by a competent legal
department.

Robert


Sooooo. It is not hard to imagine the disappointment, when I was
9, that my new PF Flyers did not enable me to jump over a fence or
the street. ;~)

Your examples and mine, when I was 9, probably disappointed a lot
of people with still under developed brains.

You have to wonder how many in California believe the cancer
warning label warnings on every thing sold or manufactured there?
I never did believe that my yard sprinkler would cause cancer or my
new shovel. I'm waiting to see the cancer warning label on
California Oranges or the "Welcome to California" sign as you cross
over from Arizona on I10. ;~)

And Mike, not poking fun at you, I bought those bits too. I do
recall the bits at the show looked a lot nicer than the ones that
I was handed. And while they do have an answer that the bits are
intended for hard steel vs soft steel, they were selling the bits
at a woodworking show not a metal working show. They darn well
knew that these bits would most likely be sold to home owners that
were not likely to drill into hardened steel or files. I'm still
not buying it. FWIW the bits that I got home with were Bad Dog
Tools, made in China.


As I stated in another reply, the jury is actually still out on this
one. I got caught up in all the controversy, hype, and all that I
forgot why I wanted these in the first place-- to drill through
porcelain and granite, because I was spending a small fortune on tile
bits and the drilling took too long.

My initial tests have been positive. I'm going to do a "simulated
install" scenario using the same bit to drill about 18-20 holes
through a porcelain tile which it not uncommon on a job installing
grab bars in one bathroom. I'll time the first hole, and the last
and see how they hold up.

It is not uncommon for me to go through 2-3 expensive store bought
bits to do this. Only the most expensive diamond "hole saw" bits are
worth their salt and even those take a LONG time to drill through
porcelain, because of all the surface area actually being cut.
(Think of the geometry of them.)

So back to my original intent for buying these... to have bits that
are good at cutting through extremely hard materials, which will be
replaced for free when dulled. That was my single motivation for
buying these.

I'll do the testing and go from there. Right now my gut tells me
I'll probably be getting a refund, but I'm trying to keep an open
mind.


The jury is in and they ruled in my favor for a full refund for these
bits. :-)

Yeaaaaaaa!


I did a LOT of testing with these bits and I determined there is nothing
special about them and in actually they perform worse than other brand
name bits that are less expensive in the long run.

I think Chinese manufacturers consider them poor quality.



So live and learn. It was a good experiment and hopefully anyone
looking at these bits can look in here and learn from my experience and
full testing of the product.

Bottom line: the company gave me a full refund so there's no fraud
involved, but buyer beware-- there's no magic involved with these bits.
They are just run-of-the-mill bits that work great for a couple holes,
then they dull and are pretty useless.


I don't know, it seems the bits you see being demo'd at the show are
several grades better than what they hand you. That might be considered
fraud. Certainly a good smoke and mirror act.

Anyway it is good their that you got your money back.

O