On 12/3/2015 9:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Jack wrote:

In the
old days, the brake lines lasted, but exhaust rusted out every other
year. Soon I expect the entire truck to rust away, leaving only the
unrusted exhaust system. I guess brakes are not as important as
exhaust in today's twisted world.

Nope - apparently they are not, or else the idiot manufacturers would have
gone to some sort of plastic brake and gas lines so we wouldn't have to deal
with this crap - but... they haven't...

How about stainless steel? They figured it out for exhaust, You'd think
they could do it for brakes?

Hey Jack - I have a better than average clue on this stuff. I fix this
stuff. I modify the idiot designs from the factory in the hope of reducing
further decay (though there really is no fixing rust...) but it is so easy
to see how/why these problems occur, and they all start at the factory - not
in your garage.

No doubt design has a lot to do with creating rust buckets like my GMC
truck, my thoughts on heated garage caused rust are two fold. First, as
long as salt and water remain frozen, they cause no rust at all. Thaw
the frozen crap out every night in your heated garage, and all that
frozen crap turns into salt water, and rust is on it's way.

Second, and most important, it's takes some of the sting out of it when
you tell the wife the garage is for a wood shop and tools, not cars and
storage of junk.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 12/3/2015 1:01 PM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

Perhaps, but if the paint stays on, the pitting will be on the inside,
just like the rust on my GMC Truck. As long as it doesn't disintegrate,
like the steel on my GMC, it will be a good thing.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 12/5/2015 10:02 AM, krw wrote:

Yes, there is no repair anymore. It's replace. The hood of my wife's
'14 Mustang is aluminum. I got in an accident, with it about a year
ago and the hood got whacked. I thought it could have been repaired
but didn't know it was aluminum at the time. Nope, it had to be
replaced (not that it really bothered me to have a new one).

When I was a kid, long, long ago, rarely were hoods (steel) fixed, as
in never. If you banged up your hood, they always got a replacement,
never straightened them.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On Mon, 07 Dec 2015 10:49:21 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 12/5/2015 10:02 AM, krw wrote:

Yes, there is no repair anymore. It's replace. The hood of my wife's
'14 Mustang is aluminum. I got in an accident, with it about a year
ago and the hood got whacked. I thought it could have been repaired
but didn't know it was aluminum at the time. Nope, it had to be
replaced (not that it really bothered me to have a new one).

When I was a kid, long, long ago, rarely were hoods (steel) fixed, as
in never. If you banged up your hood, they always got a replacement,
never straightened them.

But that was before insurance companies were invented. ;-)

In reality, they probably wouldn't have straightened this one since
the car was less than a year old. They should have replaced the car
with all the screwups (must have gone over the magic number).

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:26:04 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I thought they had Aluminum welding figured out these days. Don't
they just pump in
an inert gas like Nitrogen (maybe) to help?
They do have aluminum welding figured out but it's different than steel
welding.
Yes, I know that. I learned oxy-acetylene and arc welding in school (we
actually did more brazing). Lots of new kinds of welding (plasma, pin?)
seemed to have been developed since then. Feel free to help update me
on the whys and where-fors! : ) When I was in school there was a
"rumor" that darn expensive (coated) brazing rods that could be used for
Aluminum existed. I can peen a rivet too (bet you didn't know that!)
; ) Maybe we can rivet this aluminum and save ourselves any further
inconvenience? : )

Rivet? Duct tape!


Bill


Aluminum begins corroding immediately upon cleaning and poses
different challenges. Since car bodies have been steel for all of these
years, most body shops don't have welders with tons of aluminum welding
experience.

On Mon, 07 Dec 2015 10:41:32 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 12/3/2015 1:01 PM, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

Perhaps, but if the paint stays on, the pitting will be on the inside,
just like the rust on my GMC Truck. As long as it doesn't disintegrate,
like the steel on my GMC, it will be a good thing.

The difference between iron rust and aluminum oxidation is that AlO2
is impervious to moisture and oxygen. Iron rust keeps rusting. There
are steels that have impervious oxides, as well, but AFAIK they're not
used in the automotive industry.

In article , says...

On 12/3/2015 9:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Jack wrote:

In the
old days, the brake lines lasted, but exhaust rusted out every other
year. Soon I expect the entire truck to rust away, leaving only the
unrusted exhaust system. I guess brakes are not as important as
exhaust in today's twisted world.

Nope - apparently they are not, or else the idiot manufacturers would have
gone to some sort of plastic brake and gas lines so we wouldn't have to deal
with this crap - but... they haven't...

How about stainless steel? They figured it out for exhaust, You'd think
they could do it for brakes?

The problem with stainless is that it work hardens--flex it a few times
and it breaks. A rust hole in a non-stainless brake line is a slower
leak.

Hey Jack - I have a better than average clue on this stuff. I fix this
stuff. I modify the idiot designs from the factory in the hope of reducing
further decay (though there really is no fixing rust...) but it is so easy
to see how/why these problems occur, and they all start at the factory - not
in your garage.

No doubt design has a lot to do with creating rust buckets like my GMC
truck,

Not design, surface treatment. Lots of zinc in the primer and you get a
lot less rust. That's the main reason modern cars last so long, much
much improved paint.

The military goes even farther, they use strontium, which protects not
only steel but aluminum as well.

my thoughts on heated garage caused rust are two fold. First, as
long as salt and water remain frozen, they cause no rust at all. Thaw
the frozen crap out every night in your heated garage, and all that
frozen crap turns into salt water, and rust is on it's way.

Second, and most important, it's takes some of the sting out of it when
you tell the wife the garage is for a wood shop and tools, not cars and
storage of junk.

In article , says...

On 12/5/2015 10:02 AM, krw wrote:

Yes, there is no repair anymore. It's replace. The hood of my wife's
'14 Mustang is aluminum. I got in an accident, with it about a year
ago and the hood got whacked. I thought it could have been repaired
but didn't know it was aluminum at the time. Nope, it had to be
replaced (not that it really bothered me to have a new one).

When I was a kid, long, long ago, rarely were hoods (steel) fixed, as
in never. If you banged up your hood, they always got a replacement,
never straightened them.

Unless it's a relatively minor ding the fix is usually replacement
anyway. Most of the cost in a an auto repair is labor--bumping out
anything beyond a minor ding costs more in labor than buying a new part,
and if it's going to have to be refinished anyway, painting the whole
pre-primed fender doesn't cost that much more than cleaning up and
blending the old one.

On 12/8/2015 6:14 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

On 12/3/2015 9:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Hey Jack - I have a better than average clue on this stuff. I fix this
stuff. I modify the idiot designs from the factory in the hope of reducing
further decay (though there really is no fixing rust...) but it is so easy
to see how/why these problems occur, and they all start at the factory - not
in your garage.

No doubt design has a lot to do with creating rust buckets like my GMC
truck,

Not design, surface treatment. Lots of zinc in the primer and you get a
lot less rust. That's the main reason modern cars last so long, much
much improved paint.

Mike and I were not talking about surface rust, paint today does a good
job on that. The design issues are with things like the rocker panels,
quarter panels and bumpers, holding dirt and water on the inside. My
GMC rusted out in the rocker panels, same as my '55 Ford did, from the
inside out. The bumper on the GMC looked good on the outside, other
than a tiny rusty discoloration on the outside chrome. The inside
however was rusted all the way through. I think the front bumper is in
the same boat.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Jack wrote:
On 12/8/2015 6:14 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

On 12/3/2015 9:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Hey Jack - I have a better than average clue on this stuff. I fix
this stuff. I modify the idiot designs from the factory in the
hope of reducing further decay (though there really is no fixing
rust...) but it is so easy to see how/why these problems occur,
and they all start at the factory - not in your garage.

No doubt design has a lot to do with creating rust buckets like my
GMC truck,

Not design, surface treatment. Lots of zinc in the primer and you
get a lot less rust. That's the main reason modern cars last so
long, much much improved paint.

Mike and I were not talking about surface rust, paint today does a
good job on that. The design issues are with things like the rocker
panels, quarter panels and bumpers, holding dirt and water on the
inside. My GMC rusted out in the rocker panels, same as my '55 Ford
did, from the inside out. The bumper on the GMC looked good on the
outside, other than a tiny rusty discoloration on the outside chrome.
The inside however was rusted all the way through. I think the front
bumper is in the same boat.

Correct - the consistent problem today is from rust originaqting on the
inside (from muck buildup) and eating away to the outside. Most warranties
agre against surface rust, and rust from inside is not covered.

--

-Mike-

In article , says...

On 12/8/2015 6:14 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

On 12/3/2015 9:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Hey Jack - I have a better than average clue on this stuff. I fix this
stuff. I modify the idiot designs from the factory in the hope of reducing
further decay (though there really is no fixing rust...) but it is so easy
to see how/why these problems occur, and they all start at the factory - not
in your garage.

No doubt design has a lot to do with creating rust buckets like my GMC
truck,

Not design, surface treatment. Lots of zinc in the primer and you get a
lot less rust. That's the main reason modern cars last so long, much
much improved paint.

Mike and I were not talking about surface rust, paint today does a good
job on that. The design issues are with things like the rocker panels,
quarter panels and bumpers, holding dirt and water on the inside.

And they are coated on the inside and there's often a wax fill as well.

My
GMC rusted out in the rocker panels, same as my '55 Ford did, from the
inside out. The bumper on the GMC looked good on the outside, other
than a tiny rusty discoloration on the outside chrome. The inside
however was rusted all the way through. I think the front bumper is in
the same boat.

J. Clarke wrote:

And they are coated on the inside and there's often a wax fill as
well.


Totally irrelevant


--

-Mike-