Trembleur
 

Help, sometime between 1984 and today I remember reading an article in a
magazine or a book on making trembleurs complete with plans for string
steady rests. However after going through all my magazines and books, I
can't locate it. Google wasn't any help either. Does anybody here
remember it, and where it was. It is not the one in Vol. 17 no. 4 of
American Woodturner.

TIA

Dan

Trembleur
 

On 11/18/2015 4:25 PM, Dan Kozar wrote:
Help, sometime between 1984 and today I remember reading an article in a
magazine or a book on making trembleurs complete with plans for string
steady rests. However after going through all my magazines and books, I
can't locate it. Google wasn't any help either. Does anybody here
remember it, and where it was. It is not the one in Vol. 17 no. 4 of
American Woodturner.

TIA

Dan

used duckduckgo and was able to find some videos that show the turnin
process. easy enough to figure it out from the view of the steady rests.
They did not look special. Simple and well done.
-
Jeff

Trembleur
 

In article ,
woodchucker wrote:

On 11/18/2015 4:25 PM, Dan Kozar wrote:
Help, sometime between 1984 and today I remember reading an article in a
magazine or a book on making trembleurs complete with plans for string
steady rests. However after going through all my magazines and books, I
can't locate it. Google wasn't any help either. Does anybody here
remember it, and where it was. It is not the one in Vol. 17 no. 4 of
American Woodturner.

TIA

Dan

used duckduckgo and was able to find some videos that show the turnin
process. easy enough to figure it out from the view of the steady rests.
They did not look special. Simple and well done.
-
Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I have seen several videos, but the article is haunting me.
I know that I have it, but I don't know where it is.

Trembleur
 

Dan Kozar wrote:
Help, sometime between 1984 and today I remember reading an article
in a magazine or a book on making trembleurs complete with plans for
string steady rests. However after going through all my magazines and
books, I can't locate it. Google wasn't any help either. Does anybody
here remember it, and where it was. It is not the one in Vol. 17 no.
4 of American Woodturner.


You're kidding. A quick search on the phrase "making trembleurs" turned up
a ton of stuff.

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

Mike Marlow wrote:
Dan Kozar wrote:
Help, sometime between 1984 and today I remember reading an article
in a magazine or a book on making trembleurs complete with plans for
string steady rests. However after going through all my magazines and
books, I can't locate it. Google wasn't any help either. Does anybody
here remember it, and where it was. It is not the one in Vol. 17 no.
4 of American Woodturner.


You're kidding. A quick search on the phrase "making trembleurs"
turned up a ton of stuff.

Here I am replying to my own post - it's kind of like talking to yourself...

I should have added a sentence that asked "is this not what you were looking
for?" in order to put my comment in a proper persepctive.

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

You're kidding. A quick search on the phrase "making trembleurs"
turned up a ton of stuff.

Here I am replying to my own post - it's kind of like talking to yourself...

I should have added a sentence that asked "is this not what you were looking
for?" in order to put my comment in a proper persepctive.

Mike and others,

I should have said that I am aware of the stuff on the internet. But
that I am looking for the EXACT article. It's like misplacing a tool,
you know you have it, but you can't find it. That is what I meant when I
said that google wasn't any help. Thanks for all the good suggestions.

Trembleur
 

Dan Kozar wrote in

:

It's like misplacing a tool,
you know you have it, but you can't find it.

That happens to me a lot. As a consequence, there's a lot of
things, like tin snips, that I have 2 of, neither of which I
can find when I want them.

John

Trembleur
 

On 11/19/2015 9:27 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Dan Kozar wrote in

:

It's like misplacing a tool,
you know you have it, but you can't find it.

That happens to me a lot. As a consequence, there's a lot of
things, like tin snips, that I have 2 of, neither of which I
can find when I want them.

John


That is because you don't have 4 tin snips.

I keep 6 tape measures and oddly all of them measure the same.

Anyway I often can't find one and just as often find all 6 in one place.
;~)

Trembleur
 

Dan Kozar wrote:
You're kidding. A quick search on the phrase "making trembleurs"
turned up a ton of stuff.

Here I am replying to my own post - it's kind of like talking to
yourself...

I should have added a sentence that asked "is this not what you were
looking for?" in order to put my comment in a proper persepctive.

Mike and others,

I should have said that I am aware of the stuff on the internet. But
that I am looking for the EXACT article. It's like misplacing a tool,
you know you have it, but you can't find it. That is what I meant
when I said that google wasn't any help. Thanks for all the good
suggestions.

Got it - I sorta thought that might be the case, butchya never know...

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

On 11/19/2015 11:34 AM, Leon wrote:

That is because you don't have 4 tin snips.

I keep 6 tape measures and oddly all of them measure the same.

Anyway I often can't find one and just as often find all 6 in one place.
;~)

You need to turn on your air conditioning, and put on your shop apron.
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down
"somewhere". This will serve you well, particularly as you age.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Trembleur
 

On 11/28/2015 8:49 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/19/2015 11:34 AM, Leon wrote:

That is because you don't have 4 tin snips.

I keep 6 tape measures and oddly all of them measure the same.

Anyway I often can't find one and just as often find all 6 in one place.
;~)

You need to turn on your air conditioning, and put on your shop apron.
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down
"somewhere". This will serve you well, particularly as you age.


;~) Can't remember where I laid my apron.

Trembleur
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:53:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/28/2015 8:49 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/19/2015 11:34 AM, Leon wrote:

That is because you don't have 4 tin snips.

I keep 6 tape measures and oddly all of them measure the same.

Anyway I often can't find one and just as often find all 6 in one place.
;~)

You need to turn on your air conditioning, and put on your shop apron.
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down
"somewhere". This will serve you well, particularly as you age.


;~) Can't remember where I laid my apron.

You left it in the kitchen. rdh

Trembleur
 

Jack wrote:
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down "somewhere".

This is VERY irritating, no? ; ) I occasionally call in my wife to
help me locate items that are "lost, but in plain sight". She has a
batting average of about 75%! I guess it's to her advantage that she
doesn't have preconceived notions about where anything "ought" to be.

Trembleur
 

Bill wrote in
:

Jack wrote:
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down
"somewhere".

This is VERY irritating, no? ; ) I occasionally call in my wife to
help me locate items that are "lost, but in plain sight". She has a
batting average of about 75%! I guess it's to her advantage that she
doesn't have preconceived notions about where anything "ought" to be.



I have a theory that scientists have discovered invisibility fields but
haven't figured out how to aim them. Want to aim a light? Bounce it off
something reflective... but how do you bounce a light off that's
invisible? (That's assuming invisibility fields act like light.)

So, the long story is, when you're looking right at something and can't
find it there may be an invisibility field in operation.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Trembleur
 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 16:29:18 -0500, Bill wrote:

I occasionally call in my wife to help
me locate items that are "lost, but in plain sight". She has a batting
average of about 75%! I guess it's to her advantage that she doesn't
have preconceived notions about where anything "ought" to be.

I'll be sending you a bill for royalties - I patented that technique many
years ago :-).

Trembleur
 

On 11/28/2015 10:05 AM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:53:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/28/2015 8:49 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/19/2015 11:34 AM, Leon wrote:

That is because you don't have 4 tin snips.

I keep 6 tape measures and oddly all of them measure the same.

Anyway I often can't find one and just as often find all 6 in one place.
;~)

You need to turn on your air conditioning, and put on your shop apron.
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down
"somewhere". This will serve you well, particularly as you age.


;~) Can't remember where I laid my apron.

You left it in the kitchen. rdh


LOL, You don't know how ridiculous that sounds, uh Swingma?

Good come back Jack. :~)

Trembleur
 

On 11/28/2015 3:29 PM, Bill wrote:
Jack wrote:
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down "somewhere".

This is VERY irritating, no? ; ) I occasionally call in my wife to
help me locate items that are "lost, but in plain sight". She has a
batting average of about 75%! I guess it's to her advantage that she
doesn't have preconceived notions about where anything "ought" to be.



Exactly. I know where it should be and if it is not there it is lost.

Trembleur
 

Now to remember where the shop is!

On 11/28/2015 6:14 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/28/2015 10:05 AM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:53:34 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 11/28/2015 8:49 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/19/2015 11:34 AM, Leon wrote:

That is because you don't have 4 tin snips.

I keep 6 tape measures and oddly all of them measure the same.

Anyway I often can't find one and just as often find all 6 in one
place.
;~)

You need to turn on your air conditioning, and put on your shop apron.
Put pencil, tape, goggles, square calculator, and notepad in apron,
spend your time looking for misplaced tin snips, drivers and other
miscellaneous things that immediately get lost when set down
"somewhere". This will serve you well, particularly as you age.


;~) Can't remember where I laid my apron.

You left it in the kitchen. rdh


LOL, You don't know how ridiculous that sounds, uh Swingma?

Good come back Jack. :~)

Trembleur
 

On 11/28/2015 7:15 PM, Leon wrote:

Exactly. I know where it should be and if it is not there it is lost.

Yes, and it is also unsafe to move items to a new place it "should" be.
I have 225 drawers 55 full size drawers, 170 small parts drawers, and
17 cabinet doors to hide stuff that I have accumulated over 40 years,
that is not hanging on peg board. A While back I moved 2 planes that I
seldom use to a different drawer, and it took me a week to re-locate
them. They were where they should be, just not where they had been for
40 years...

--
Jack
A place for everything and everything in it's place.
http://jbstein.com

Trembleur
 

On 11/30/2015 11:05 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/28/2015 7:15 PM, Leon wrote:

Exactly. I know where it should be and if it is not there it is lost.

Yes, and it is also unsafe to move items to a new place it "should" be.
I have 225 drawers 55 full size drawers, 170 small parts drawers, and
17 cabinet doors to hide stuff that I have accumulated over 40 years,
that is not hanging on peg board. A While back I moved 2 planes that I
seldom use to a different drawer, and it took me a week to re-locate
them. They were where they should be, just not where they had been for
40 years...



Wow that is a lot of drawers!

I have 51 not counting those little plastic screw and nut assortment bins.

I do have have 24 steel drawer small parts bins included in the 51 above
which will hold about 2000 screws each.

The balance range from just under full size to over full size. Oh I
did not count the red upper and lower tool chest, that probably has 20
or so drawers.

Mine are in 6 locations so there is some difference which makes
identification of what goes where a bit easier.

Trembleur
 

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:05:25 -0500
Jack wrote:

planes that I seldom use to a different drawer, and it took me a week
to re-locate them. They were where they should be, just not where

at least you found them

i gave up once looking for some parts i knew i had

it is sometimes quicker just to go buy new ones

eventually they will show up

Trembleur
 

On 11/30/2015 12:17 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/30/2015 11:05 AM, Jack wrote:

I have 225 drawers 55 full size drawers, 170 small parts drawers, and
17 cabinet doors to hide stuff that I have accumulated over 40 years,
that is not hanging on peg board.

Wow that is a lot of drawers!

I have 51 not counting those little plastic screw and nut assortment bins.

I have 55 drawers, only 4 more than you, not counting the 170 small
parts drawers. The 225 number includes the 170 small parts drawers. I
have one more case to build that will have 4 or 5 drawers, or possibly 2
drawers and a 2 door cabinet. I really have enough drawers, something I
never thought I'd say, considering all the stuff I have accumulated. I
could use some more wall space though...

I do have have 24 steel drawer small parts bins included in the 51 above
which will hold about 2000 screws each.

The balance range from just under full size to over full size. Oh I
did not count the red upper and lower tool chest, that probably has 20
or so drawers.

So you have more drawers than me, if you count the 24 steel parts bins:-)

Mine are in 6 locations so there is some difference which makes
identification of what goes where a bit easier.

I've learned over the years to have a spot for everything, and pretty
much keep it in it's spot. Makes cleaning up easier, and when the wife
or kids "borrow" something, I spot it immediately. If what they need is
in a drawer, they generally have to ask me or search for hours to find it.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Trembleur
 

On 12/1/2015 7:53 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/30/2015 12:17 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/30/2015 11:05 AM, Jack wrote:

I have 225 drawers 55 full size drawers, 170 small parts drawers, and
17 cabinet doors to hide stuff that I have accumulated over 40 years,
that is not hanging on peg board.

Wow that is a lot of drawers!

I have 51 not counting those little plastic screw and nut assortment
bins.

I have 55 drawers, only 4 more than you, not counting the 170 small
parts drawers. The 225 number includes the 170 small parts drawers. I
have one more case to build that will have 4 or 5 drawers, or possibly 2
drawers and a 2 door cabinet. I really have enough drawers, something I
never thought I'd say, considering all the stuff I have accumulated. I
could use some more wall space though...

I do have have 24 steel drawer small parts bins included in the 51 above
which will hold about 2000 screws each.

The balance range from just under full size to over full size. Oh I
did not count the red upper and lower tool chest, that probably has 20
or so drawers.

So you have more drawers than me, if you count the 24 steel parts bins:-)

No, they are a part of the 51. ;~) You win. LOL



Mine are in 6 locations so there is some difference which makes
identification of what goes where a bit easier.

I've learned over the years to have a spot for everything, and pretty
much keep it in it's spot. Makes cleaning up easier, and when the wife
or kids "borrow" something, I spot it immediately. If what they need is
in a drawer, they generally have to ask me or search for hours to find it.

Absolutely, the shop can be an utter disaster area and 15 minutes later
neat and organized with my wife's vehicle in the garage.

Trembleur
 

On 12/1/2015 9:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/1/2015 7:53 AM, Jack wrote:

Absolutely, the shop can be an utter disaster area and 15 minutes later
neat and organized with my wife's vehicle in the garage.

I only have a 2 1/2 car garage, so there is no room for the wife's
vehicle. Also, since my garage is heated, and I live in snowy Pgh Pa,
where winter roads are paved in salt, I let her know that her car would
rust away to nothing if you melt the frozen salt solution stuck all over
the car. Frozen salt water=safe, melted frozen salt water=rust:-)

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Trembleur
 

On 12/2/2015 9:08 AM, Jack wrote:
On 12/1/2015 9:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/1/2015 7:53 AM, Jack wrote:

Absolutely, the shop can be an utter disaster area and 15 minutes later
neat and organized with my wife's vehicle in the garage.

I only have a 2 1/2 car garage, so there is no room for the wife's
vehicle. Also, since my garage is heated, and I live in snowy Pgh Pa,
where winter roads are paved in salt, I let her know that her car would
rust away to nothing if you melt the frozen salt solution stuck all over
the car. Frozen salt water=safe, melted frozen salt water=rust:-)



I am in a 3 car garage now but our previous home had a 2 car.

Oddly, I had all the same equipment in the other garage + there was a
washer and dryer and her car in there.

Thank heavens for mobile bases, even now.

The only non-shop "room taker uppers" now is the water heater, freezer,
and her car. Her car does live outside when a large project is going on.

Trembleur
 

Jack wrote:
On 12/1/2015 9:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/1/2015 7:53 AM, Jack wrote:

Absolutely, the shop can be an utter disaster area and 15 minutes
later neat and organized with my wife's vehicle in the garage.

I only have a 2 1/2 car garage, so there is no room for the wife's
vehicle. Also, since my garage is heated, and I live in snowy Pgh Pa,
where winter roads are paved in salt, I let her know that her car
would rust away to nothing if you melt the frozen salt solution stuck
all over the car. Frozen salt water=safe, melted frozen salt
water=rust:-)

Well - not so much these days Jack. In the old days that was very true but
today's cars are treated better right from the factory and that old adage is
no where near as accurate today as it used to be. It's much safer to park a
car in a garage these days than it was 20 or more years ago. I'm in
Syracuse and I've parked our cars/trucks in the garage (heated) for decades
without the age old issues that you're referencing. Reality is that those
problems of old were not so much an issue of salt as they were a problem of
the crap - no... **** steel that they (re)used back then. It just became in
vogue to blame it on warm garages. Normal driving eliminates more of that
salt than you migh think, and a weelly or bi-weekly car wash does a lot more
than you might think. It's just now so much about a warm garage as we used
to say.

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

On 12/2/2015 10:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Jack wrote:
On 12/1/2015 9:27 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/1/2015 7:53 AM, Jack wrote:

Absolutely, the shop can be an utter disaster area and 15 minutes
later neat and organized with my wife's vehicle in the garage.

I only have a 2 1/2 car garage, so there is no room for the wife's
vehicle. Also, since my garage is heated, and I live in snowy Pgh Pa,
where winter roads are paved in salt, I let her know that her car
would rust away to nothing if you melt the frozen salt solution stuck
all over the car. Frozen salt water=safe, melted frozen salt
water=rust:-)

Well - not so much these days Jack. In the old days that was very true but
today's cars are treated better right from the factory and that old adage is
no where near as accurate today as it used to be. It's much safer to park a
car in a garage these days than it was 20 or more years ago. I'm in
Syracuse and I've parked our cars/trucks in the garage (heated) for decades
without the age old issues that you're referencing. Reality is that those
problems of old were not so much an issue of salt as they were a problem of
the crap - no... **** steel that they (re)used back then. It just became in
vogue to blame it on warm garages. Normal driving eliminates more of that
salt than you migh think, and a weelly or bi-weekly car wash does a lot more
than you might think. It's just now so much about a warm garage as we used
to say.

Tell that to my GMC Pick-up. The rear bumper had tiny rust mark on the
outside chrome. My skinny ass son-in-law stepped on it last year and it
broke in half, totally and completely rusted on the inside. The front
bumper now has a tiny bit of rust on the outside, I imagine the inside
is wasted.

Also, both rocker panels are totally rusted out. I had to replace all
the brake lines as they also rusted out. Also replaced all the rusted
out brake lines on 2 Chevy's, and two Jeeps. Interestingly, the exhaust
systems on all of these vehicles have held up fine. In the old days,
the brake lines lasted, but exhaust rusted out every other year. Soon I
expect the entire truck to rust away, leaving only the unrusted exhaust
system. I guess brakes are not as important as exhaust in today's
twisted world.

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Trembleur
 

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

Trembleur
 

Jack wrote:


Tell that to my GMC Pick-up. The rear bumper had tiny rust mark on
the outside chrome. My skinny ass son-in-law stepped on it last year
and it broke in half, totally and completely rusted on the inside. The
front bumper now has a tiny bit of rust on the outside, I imagine
the inside is wasted.

Oh - no doubt. I was not questioning this kind of experience. **** steel
is **** steel. But - that's not really as related to parking a vehicle in a
garage as people tend to think. It's just a matter of **** steel. Park it
outside and it's still going to do the same thing.



Also, both rocker panels are totally rusted out. I had to replace all
the brake lines as they also rusted out. Also replaced all the rusted
out brake lines on 2 Chevy's, and two Jeeps. Interestingly, the
exhaust systems on all of these vehicles have held up fine.

That's most likely because a lot of manufacturers have gone to stainless
exhaust. Makes a big difference in longevity.


In the
old days, the brake lines lasted, but exhaust rusted out every other
year. Soon I expect the entire truck to rust away, leaving only the
unrusted exhaust system. I guess brakes are not as important as
exhaust in today's twisted world.

Nope - apparently they are not, or else the idiot manufacturers would have
gone to some sort of plastic brake and gas lines so we wouldn't have to deal
with this crap - but... they haven't...



I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great
today, just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or
watch it self destruct from the inside out.

Which is more about the traps built into bodies than your garage or salt or
anything else. Look, feel, etc. underneath there - there are shelves and
traps that hold road grit and all that. Over a short time of that suff
laying against even good metal, it's going to eat through. Again - nothing
to do with a garage. Just bad, bad, bad design.

Hey Jack - I have a better than average clue on this stuff. I fix this
stuff. I modify the idiot designs from the factory in the hope of reducing
further decay (though there really is no fixing rust...) but it is so easy
to see how/why these problems occur, and they all start at the factory - not
in your garage.

Ford has an aluminum
truck now, so the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what
parts of the truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make
sure it will not last.

You got it brother! The costs associated with those new aluminum bodies is
yet to be realized. I can tell you that the repair procedures are all new,
and the cost of body work on Fords just went up - a lot!

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 12:01:55 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

If they don't catch fire first. ;-)

Trembleur
 

On 12/3/2015 8:47 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 12:01:55 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

If they don't catch fire first. ;-)



No kidding. LOL

Trembleur
 

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 08:47:30 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:47 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 12:01:55 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

If they don't catch fire first. ;-)



No kidding. LOL

Seriously, I have a 2013 F150 and I'm not sure I'd buy a '15. Not so
much because of fire (but they're pretty when they go) but because of
repairs. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry auto body shop knows how to chop
up steel and make it all better. Aluminum? Not so much! Trucks are
made to be abused. I'd like one that can be repaired.

Trembleur
 

krw wrote:


Seriously, I have a 2013 F150 and I'm not sure I'd buy a '15. Not so
much because of fire (but they're pretty when they go) but because of
repairs. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry auto body shop knows how to chop
up steel and make it all better. Aluminum? Not so much! Trucks are
made to be abused. I'd like one that can be repaired.

My friend works for the insurance companies and has gone to classes on the
new all aluminum Ford. It is indeed a different manner of doing repairs.
Ford has done a lot to provide panels to be replaced rather than repaired,
etc. but the cost is probably going to be reflected in that. Lots of new
types of fasteners, etc. because welding is no longer an option like it is
with steel. It will be interesting to see what the real costs are
associated with this move.

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 07:49:18 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

krw wrote:


Seriously, I have a 2013 F150 and I'm not sure I'd buy a '15. Not so
much because of fire (but they're pretty when they go) but because of
repairs. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry auto body shop knows how to chop
up steel and make it all better. Aluminum? Not so much! Trucks are
made to be abused. I'd like one that can be repaired.

My friend works for the insurance companies and has gone to classes on the
new all aluminum Ford. It is indeed a different manner of doing repairs.
Ford has done a lot to provide panels to be replaced rather than repaired,
etc. but the cost is probably going to be reflected in that. Lots of new
types of fasteners, etc. because welding is no longer an option like it is
with steel. It will be interesting to see what the real costs are
associated with this move.

Yes, there is no repair anymore. It's replace. The hood of my wife's
'14 Mustang is aluminum. I got in an accident, with it about a year
ago and the hood got whacked. I thought it could have been repaired
but didn't know it was aluminum at the time. Nope, it had to be
replaced (not that it really bothered me to have a new one).

Trembleur
 

krw wrote:
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 08:47:30 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:47 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 12:01:55 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 09:45:12 -0500, Jack wrote:

I will agree though that the paint on the outside holds up great today,
just that underneath, it's buy a new car every few years or watch it
self destruct from the inside out. Ford has an aluminum truck now, so
the rocker panels should last, not sure about the what parts of the
truck are designed to fail, but you can bet they make sure it will not
last.

The salt on the roads will affect Fords "military grade aluminum"
F150s. Won't rust but it will pit and oxidize and degrade over time.

If they don't catch fire first. ;-)



No kidding. LOL

Seriously, I have a 2013 F150 and I'm not sure I'd buy a '15. Not so
much because of fire (but they're pretty when they go) but because of
repairs. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry auto body shop knows how to chop
up steel and make it all better. Aluminum? Not so much! Trucks are
made to be abused. I'd like one that can be repaired.


You know, I'm not so sure that aluminum will be a head scratcher for a
decent body shop. Yes more trouble but aluminum in vehicles has been
around for quite a while. When I worked for an Olds dealer in the mid 80's
we invested in a TIG welder to handle the aluminum that was showing up on
some of the new vehicles.
BUT. That may have changed since then.

I do recall a big problem back in the early 90's locating the correct
adhesives that GM used to glue the body parts on the composite body
minivans.

Trembleur
 

Leon wrote:


You know, I'm not so sure that aluminum will be a head scratcher for a
decent body shop. Yes more trouble but aluminum in vehicles has been
around for quite a while. When I worked for an Olds dealer in the mid
80's we invested in a TIG welder to handle the aluminum that was
showing up on some of the new vehicles.
BUT. That may have changed since then.

Not necessarily a big problem but a problem - or at least a new technique to
learn. This is not like tigging a stout piece on - it's body work. Thin.
While many or maybe most body shops can learn this new requirement, there
remains the matter that these panels are really not meant to be welded on.
Now there are new fasteners and new fastening techniques, different panel
pieces than in the old days, new adhesives, etc. Just a change, that's all.
Aluminum welding could present a challenge to many shops though, since it is
a whole different world than steel welding. Think oxidation.


--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

You know, I'm not so sure that aluminum will be a head scratcher for a
decent body shop. Yes more trouble but aluminum in vehicles has been
around for quite a while. When I worked for an Olds dealer in the mid
80's we invested in a TIG welder to handle the aluminum that was
showing up on some of the new vehicles.
BUT. That may have changed since then.
Not necessarily a big problem but a problem - or at least a new technique to
learn. This is not like tigging a stout piece on - it's body work. Thin.
While many or maybe most body shops can learn this new requirement, there
remains the matter that these panels are really not meant to be welded on.
Now there are new fasteners and new fastening techniques, different panel
pieces than in the old days, new adhesives, etc. Just a change, that's all.
Aluminum welding could present a challenge to many shops though, since it is
a whole different world than steel welding. Think oxidation.


I thought they had Aluminum welding figured out these days. Don't they
just pump in
an inert gas like Nitrogen (maybe) to help?

Trembleur
 

In article ,
says...

Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

You know, I'm not so sure that aluminum will be a head scratcher for a
decent body shop. Yes more trouble but aluminum in vehicles has been
around for quite a while. When I worked for an Olds dealer in the mid
80's we invested in a TIG welder to handle the aluminum that was
showing up on some of the new vehicles.
BUT. That may have changed since then.
Not necessarily a big problem but a problem - or at least a new technique to
learn. This is not like tigging a stout piece on - it's body work. Thin.
While many or maybe most body shops can learn this new requirement, there
remains the matter that these panels are really not meant to be welded on.
Now there are new fasteners and new fastening techniques, different panel
pieces than in the old days, new adhesives, etc. Just a change, that's all.
Aluminum welding could present a challenge to many shops though, since it is
a whole different world than steel welding. Think oxidation.


I thought they had Aluminum welding figured out these days.

I thought they had it figured out in WWII.

Don't they
just pump in
an inert gas like Nitrogen (maybe) to help?

Trembleur
 

Bill wrote:

I thought they had Aluminum welding figured out these days. Don't
they just pump in
an inert gas like Nitrogen (maybe) to help?

They do have aluminum welding figured out but it's different than steel
welding. Aluminum begins corroding immediately upon cleaning and poses
different challenges. Since car bodies have been steel for all of these
years, most body shops don't have welders with tons of aluminum welding
experience.

--

-Mike-

Trembleur
 

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I thought they had Aluminum welding figured out these days. Don't
they just pump in
an inert gas like Nitrogen (maybe) to help?
They do have aluminum welding figured out but it's different than steel
welding.
Yes, I know that. I learned oxy-acetylene and arc welding in school (we
actually did more brazing). Lots of new kinds of welding (plasma, pin?)
seemed to have been developed since then. Feel free to help update me
on the whys and where-fors! : ) When I was in school there was a
"rumor" that darn expensive (coated) brazing rods that could be used for
Aluminum existed. I can peen a rivet too (bet you didn't know that!)
; ) Maybe we can rivet this aluminum and save ourselves any further
inconvenience? : )

Bill


Aluminum begins corroding immediately upon cleaning and poses
different challenges. Since car bodies have been steel for all of these
years, most body shops don't have welders with tons of aluminum welding
experience.