Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-r...e-option/2100/

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
(price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 12:25:25 PM UTC-6, Casper wrote:
My hunch is the texture
of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.


I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.

I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture, over time. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged that way, or in any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring, anymore. Do you know if there is other subflooring, under the OSB, and if it's in good shape?

A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is there presently one and is it still in good shape.

I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to glue it down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good subfloor to glue it to.

Other than these thoughts, I have no info/knowledge on the ply flooring and for what type of home it's best recommended for, i.e., pillared or slab, if applicable.

Sonny

On 2/13/15 12:25 PM, Casper wrote:
Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-r...e-option/2100/



I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other
flooring. Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring
for 1400 sq ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20%
sheet vinyl and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams.
Twenty year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom
and two small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl
tiles are press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is
the texture of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor,
or cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
(price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I
really would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost
down, especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper


I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're
talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the
seem and cause a lip.

One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
durable that stuff is.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Casper" wrote in message

Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-r...e-option/2100/

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
(price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood CAN
look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do it for
several reasons:

1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on the
order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.

2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At least
one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to do it well
and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat sub-floor. Of course,
you would need that for most anything.

I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00 sq.ft. -
you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to install, just lay
one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some would need
crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be ripped. No finishing
needed and it would be far more durable than hardwood ply; it would also
be much less costly and easier to do.

If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put about
1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed - including
7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had not done the tear
out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years but it should look decent
after ten with reasonable care.

We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80 per
sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not recall.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:25:19 -0500
Casper wrote:

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

Light weight concrete might work. Can be as low as $4/sq.ft.

I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.

Neither. Manufacture (mobile) home.

I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture, over time. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged that way, or in any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring, anymore. Do you know if there is other subflooring, under the OSB, and if it's in good shape?

OSB (only think I can see) looks fine except a bit dirty where some of
the peel-n-stick tiles have moved out of alignment.

A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is there presently one and is it still in good shape.

Been 20 years and OSB and floor looks solid and dry. We've got a ton
of insulation and very think barrier underneath the eniter home.

I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to glue it down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good subfloor to glue it to.

Seems some like the nails but I don't particularly. I see many being
glued down. If you Google plywood flooring, you'll see ton and a
number of them are quite professional looking.

Other than these thoughts, I have no info/knowledge on the ply flooring and for what type of home it's best recommended for, i.e., pillared or slab, if applicable.
Sonny

Thanks for the input.

I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're
talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the
seem and cause a lip.

Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of laying
out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or squares.

One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have
seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
durable that stuff is.
-MIKE-

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have
already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees.
Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.

dadiOH wrote:


As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood
CAN look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do
it for several reasons:

1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on
the order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.

Agreed. As well - taste comes into play. Though the floors look better
than I expected them to, they just didn't work for me, but tomato/tomato...


2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At
least one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to
do it well and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat
sub-floor. Of course, you would need that for most anything.


I'm not sure the subfloor issue would be any greater with this approach than
with any other. Any flooring is going to have its own susuptibility to the
irregularities of the subfloor. Like you though, I'm not big on the idea of
the exposed screw heads. Tomato/tomato...


I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00
sq.ft. - you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to
install, just lay one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some
would need crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be
ripped. No finishing needed and it would be far more durable than
hardwood ply; it would also be much less costly and easier to do.

I agree. I've laid some of these and they have ranged from $3-$4 per sq ft
on the high end, to somewhere around $1 per sq ft on the low end. The low
end came from Mr. Seconds (a local(?) over-stock retailer), that is exactly
the same product sold at the more typical retail outlets. Not a defective
product - cheap because it was some kind of inventory over-run.



--

-Mike-

As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood CAN
look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do it for
several reasons:

1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on the
order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.

Point taken but dings are better than tears, etc on the vinyl and
carpet. I am certain you have seen how much crap gets under carpet and
I don't care what vaccum anyone uses, it don't come up period.

2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At least
one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to do it well
and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat sub-floor. Of course,
you would need that for most anything.

Some people seem to like the screw look. I don't, but I did see a ones
that do not and I suspect they are glued. My subfloor is flat, that's
not an issue. The entire floor may pitch a tiny bit, but no buckling
or warping, etc.

I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00 sq.ft. -
you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to install, just lay
one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some would need
crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be ripped. No finishing
needed and it would be far more durable than hardwood ply; it would also
be much less costly and easier to do.

Again, not around here except for Home Despot and Lowes and I don't
want that chit. I've looked and looked around here and cheapest I
could find was $2.49sq/ft but that had to be special ordered, which
was an extra fee and shipping and no returns.

If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put about
1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed - including
7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had not done the tear
out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years but it should look decent
after ten with reasonable care.

Hate carpet. No vaccum in the world ever gets out the dirt. And
truthfully stains never come out either.

We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80 per
sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not recall.
dadiOH

Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

Casper wrote:
I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.

Neither. Manufacture (mobile) home.

I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture,
over time. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged
that way, or in any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring,
anymore. Do you know if there is other subflooring, under the OSB,
and if it's in good shape?

OSB (only think I can see) looks fine except a bit dirty where some of
the peel-n-stick tiles have moved out of alignment.


That would not be surprising. Properly put down, and not subject to extreme
moisture, OSB can be very stable.


A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is
there presently one and is it still in good shape.

Been 20 years and OSB and floor looks solid and dry. We've got a ton
of insulation and very think barrier underneath the eniter home.


Then, I would not worry any further about this consideration. Sonny raised
some good thoughts, but it seems you don't need to think about them any
further.


I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to
glue it down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good
subfloor to glue it to.

Seems some like the nails but I don't particularly. I see many being
glued down. If you Google plywood flooring, you'll see ton and a
number of them are quite professional looking.


Tomato/tomato - go with what you like. Remember this - once you glue that
plywood down...

--

-Mike-

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

Light weight concrete might work. Can be as low as $4/sq.ft.
Electric Comet

I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking
into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock
and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.

Casper wrote:


Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have
already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees.
Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.

I understand the budget issue. I have installed laminate flooring that cost
the owner at or under $1 per square foot. Do some google stuff to look for
it, but there are over-stock stores (around here they are Mr. Seconds
stores) that seel the exact same thing as HD or Lowes or even the more
"upscale..." retail outlets - at a fraction of the price. Same quality,
same product. Do be careful - there is a real low end crap product out
there, so don't forget to examine the actual product.


--

-Mike-

Casper wrote:


Again, not around here except for Home Despot and Lowes and I don't
want that chit. I've looked and looked around here and cheapest I
could find was $2.49sq/ft but that had to be special ordered, which
was an extra fee and shipping and no returns.


Not so fast! The flooring products at HD and Lowes is pretty good stuff.
Don't let yourself be fooled into believing it is "chit". My brother-in-law
sells the highest end, most expensive laminate flooring to retailers. We
talk about the difference between his product and the comodity product at HD
or Lowes. He keeps telling me about the way the planks snap together -
which is exactly the same way the big box store planks snap together. Don't
let sales guys steer you wrong. Look into this stuff and you will find
there is a lot less difference from one product to another.


If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put
about 1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed
- including 7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had
not done the tear out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years
but it should look decent after ten with reasonable care.

Hate carpet. No vaccum in the world ever gets out the dirt. And
truthfully stains never come out either.

Oh **** - you've obviously never owned a Rainbow! They will make a '57
Chevy look brand new...



Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

Google! Amazon! Or... send me the appropriate sum of cold hard cash, and
I'll take care of getting to your front door...

--

-Mike-

On 02/13/2015 02:23 PM, Casper wrote:
I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're
talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the
seem and cause a lip.

Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of laying
out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or squares.

One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have
seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
durable that stuff is.
-MIKE-

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have
already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees.
Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.

Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99 sq/ft.
It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

-MIKE- wrote in :

On 2/13/15 12:25 PM, Casper wrote:
Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-r...ojects/advice-
for-
homeowners-looking-to-remodel/plywood-flooring-attractive-
inexpensive-
option/2100/

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other
flooring.

I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would
have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it.
You're talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile."
The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up
the seem and cause a lip.

I would agree with this. With "normal" tiles you have a grout
line which hides small irregularities, with these tiles you don't.

One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability
ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

Don't really agree with this, if you're talking glue-down. It
depends on the quality of the glue and the thickness of the
planks, but they have a tendency to come unstuck on the dips.
Nailing or stapling to an underlayment might be OK with dips
(altho I doubt it would be much different).

Incidently, to dadiOH's point, the top layer on engineered
flooring can be quite thick, altho you pay for that.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own
that will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can
put on in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed
at how durable that stuff is.

Yeah, whatever they use is far harder than the poly you get
in gallon cans at the borg. Counter point to that is, if the
floor does get dinged or scratched, it's not simple to sand
and revarnish like you can with a plain plank floor.

John

On 2/13/15 3:23 PM, Casper wrote:
I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor
would have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider
it. You're talking four foot seems in both directions for every
"tile." The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to
mess up the seem and cause a lip.

Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of
laying out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or
squares.


I was assuming 4x4 like in the link you posted. If you're doing
planks... even more reason to go with engineered. The link also showed
cabinet grade plywood which is going to be pretty stiff. A 3-8" wide
board can rise and fall with dips in the floor and keep tight seems. A
4x4' stiff panel cannot.


One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its
ability ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have
seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own
that will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they
can put on in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always
amazed at how durable that stuff is. -MIKE-

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I
told him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't
listen. His family makes too much of a watery mess for that
flooring.

Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I
have already picked out but locally there is nothing under
$5sq/ft+fees. Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I
don't want.


I'm not talking about the ****ty laminate that is a picture of wood
stuck to 3/8" of cardboard. I'm talking about engineered which is
essentially the same plywood you're thinking of using, but with
manageable widths that are T&G milled, with a very thick top ply and an
extremely durable finish applied at the factory.

Lumber liquidators has some very decent stuff for under $2.50sq.ft.
That would $80 per sheet of plywood. If can find good enough cabinet
grade plywood for that and put on a perfect and durable a finish like
they can at a factory for under that price, then more power to you.

With the engineered stuff, one person (you) could have your home done in
a few days.
Maybe less if you really kicked ass on it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/13/2015 4:23 PM, Casper wrote:


As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
durable that stuff is.
-MIKE-

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Mike is talking about pre-finished wood, not laminate. I have some
engineered wood in a heavily traveled family room (most used entrance)
and it shows no wear in 10 years.

Some laminate is good, others are crap. You can't expect much from the
stuff on sale for 99 cents a foot.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 22:29:10 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/13/2015 4:23 PM, Casper wrote:


As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that
will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on
in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how
durable that stuff is.
-MIKE-

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate
installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told
him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen.
His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Mike is talking about pre-finished wood, not laminate. I have some
engineered wood in a heavily traveled family room (most used entrance)
and it shows no wear in 10 years.

Some laminate is good, others are crap. You can't expect much from the
stuff on sale for 99 cents a foot.
Most laminate that costs less than quality hardwood is verging on
junk. Good pre-finished hardwood has a UV cured urethane finish
heavily charged with aluminum oxide. The stuff wears like diamond.
It is generally applied with a pad in VERY thin layers,UV cured
between applications in a dust free finishing line.
Most laminate is made in a hell-hole in China where the wind blows all
kinds of crap through, and it's made of who-knows-what, pressed into a
quasi-board and finished with a photo-representation of wood
impregnated with melamine resin.

"Casper" wrote in message


We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80
per sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not
recall.
dadiOH

Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

This is the electronic age...there are a ton of online sellers and they
sell samples too.

There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com that have
stores near to just about anyone and have a broad selection in a wide
price range. They aren't the cheapest but shipping isn't extra (assuming
store pickup).

In my case, I bought online from a Tampa retailer. He then orders from
the distributor who shipped to me. Retailer makes a bit but much less
than if I had walked into his store.

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I don't much care for laminate,
generally dislike things that try to look like something they are not, but
I don't think it is ugly.

I share your prejudice against carpet. That's why my house has 3500+
sq.ft of Saltillo tile

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 6:32:49 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"Casper" wrote in message


We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80
per sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not
recall.
dadiOH

Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

This is the electronic age...there are a ton of online sellers and they
sell samples too.

There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com

http://www.floorsanddecor.com

"This domain may be for sale. Buy this Domain"

Perhaps you meant...

http://www.flooranddecor.com (no "s")

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message


There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com

http://www.floorsanddecor.com

"This domain may be for sale. Buy this Domain"

Perhaps you meant...

http://www.flooranddecor.com (no "s")

Yeah, thanks.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 2/13/2015 12:25 PM, Casper wrote:
Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-r...e-option/2100/

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
(price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper


I would look at what the definition of plywood is. There is
"Engineered" hard wood flooring that is actually plywood and then there
is more common hardwood veneered plywood that is typically used for
furniture. I would not put much trust in the later being a good
material for flooring although the link you provided has the appearance
of the common furniture grade plywood. Just because a designer uses it
does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that the material choice
is a good one. On a side note my wife and I visited a model home in a
new neighborhood. The floors were sand stone, very attractive but tons
of grout and you could already see wear paths in the stone from traffic.
I would guesstimate that the floor had to be replaced with in a year
or two. I would highly suspect that a common plywood floor might have a
similar life expectancy.

an inexpensive underlayment over the entire floor is a route to take?
john

"Casper" wrote in message
...

Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?
http://www.braitmandesign.com/home-r...e-option/2100/

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring.
Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq
ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl
and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty
year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two
small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are
press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture
of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly
treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild
patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge
or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are
there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or
cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more
(price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and
quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked
pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really
would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down,
especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper

Doug Winterburn wrote in
eb.com:

Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99
sq/ft.
It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.

Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...

Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability.
At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.

You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you
might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost).
Anderson is a much higher quality product.

Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
more if you go to a flooring dealer.

(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
know this...)

John

On 02/14/2015 01:13 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote in
eb.com:

Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99
sq/ft.
It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.

Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...

Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability.
At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.

You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you
might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost).
Anderson is a much higher quality product.

Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
more if you go to a flooring dealer.

(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
know this...)

John

My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:13:37 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote in
web.com:

Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99
sq/ft.
It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.

Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...

Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability.
At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.

You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you
might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost).
Anderson is a much higher quality product.

Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
more if you go to a flooring dealer.

(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
know this...)

John
If you buy the same glue at Home Dspot, Lowes, or your local
"flooring store" it will be the same quality. Sometimes the flooring
store has better stuff available, but that is also true of places like
Lowes and Home Despot. If you buy the cheapest crap either place has,
you get junk. If you buy the best either place has, you MAY be
overpaying for your requirements, but it is still cheaper than having
to do it over because you cheaped out.

I generally check around and don't buy either the cheapest or the most
expensive.

My experience is buying the same quality, same brand product from the
big box stores or from a real retailer (flooring shop, etc) there is
not a big difference in price, and if you need advice, the advice you
get from the "expert" is a lot better than what you get from the
"borg"

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500
Casper wrote:

I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking

When you say "it", you mean the current floor right?

Lightweight concrete can be up to 80% lighter than conventional. But
you have to talk to competent people. It's amazing what they can do
to the concrete surface. Stamping, coloring and other tricks.
But that means more $$. Ask someone that knows their stuff with
concrete

into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock

They are wrong.

and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.

As you say it's BS

Doug Winterburn wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
:

My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?

I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)

Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
delaminating.

Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.

John

wrote in news:umfvdallijfhnepvi04me54slqijranofm@
4ax.com:

If you buy the same glue at Home Dspot, Lowes, or your local
"flooring store" it will be the same quality. Sometimes the flooring
store has better stuff available, but that is also true of places like
Lowes and Home Despot.

No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
and it will be the lowest cost one.

The flooring store likely will give you a choice, and if they
don't their one brand will be a better quality one.

John

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:13:06 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:umfvdallijfhnepvi04me54slqijranofm@
4ax.com:

If you buy the same glue at Home Dspot, Lowes, or your local
"flooring store" it will be the same quality. Sometimes the flooring
store has better stuff available, but that is also true of places like
Lowes and Home Despot.

No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
and it will be the lowest cost one.

The flooring store likely will give you a choice, and if they
don't their one brand will be a better quality one.

John
Lowes carries Bostik , Bruce, Tecsun, Mohawk, and USFloor. 3 1/2 or 4
gallon containers $160, $89, $190, $220, and $192 US prices
repectively. I think the despot carries Roberts and Taylor - at least
2 different products from Taylor - MS+ and Tuff-Lok at $134 and $76
respectively, with the Roberts at about $95

Flooring experts are using the Bostik product, as well as Tecsun,
Bruce, and Mohawk (depending on the brand of flooring they sell)

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
:

My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?

I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)

Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
delaminating.

Delaminating? How does wood delaminate? It's not laminated in the
first place.

Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.

John

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 22:46:48 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:09:04 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
:

My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?

I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)

Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
delaminating.

Delaminating? How does wood delaminate? It's not laminated in the
first place.

Likely engineered hardwood. - or even more likely, Bruce Laminate -
which is far from "hardwood" as you can get. Laminate is a picture of
hardwood decoupaged onto some of the crappiest thick paperboard you
can find.. There are a few companies that produce a durable laminate,
but it will cost as much as real quality hardwood.

Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.

John

On 02/14/2015 05:09 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote in news:54dfadb2$0$57800
:

My flooring is floating over a concrete slab. Been in for about 4 years
with no signs of wear or other problems. Not sure why you're so
negative on Bruce flooring. Do you have experience with it?

I said don't ask how I know about tearing out a glue-down floor :-)

Had to take up a Bruce floor which did not hold up in a home
office...the finish just wore away, and then the planks started
delaminating.

Any wood flooring will take a beating from an office chair with rollers
unless a floor mat is used.


Now, Bruce makes a wide selection of flooring, and yours may
hold up better, especially if it's low-traffic. But for someone
looking to do an install, I would definately look at other
vendors. From personal experience I know Anderson is good,
even their lower-priced lines, but I'm sure there are others.

John




--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

wrote in :

Delaminating? How does wood delaminate? It's not laminated in the
first place.

We're talking about engineered wood flooring here. That's
a kind of plywood. Plywood delaminates when it's not
made well.

John

wrote in news:s410eadhdnkln3ufspcv8aqn24754afsnn@
4ax.com:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:13:06 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
and it will be the lowest cost one.

Lowes carries Bostik , Bruce, Tecsun, Mohawk, and USFloor. 3 1/2 or 4
gallon containers $160, $89, $190, $220, and $192 US prices
repectively.

Are you looking on the website or in the store? My store
carries Bruce. That's the only hardwood flooring adhesive
they actually stock.

Now, they have a ton of choices on the website - but if
you're going to special order it, you might as well go to
a flooring store anyway.

John

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 17:08:22 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:s410eadhdnkln3ufspcv8aqn24754afsnn@
4ax.com:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 00:13:06 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

No, that is not true. In the case of glue for engineered wood
floors, Home Depot or Lowes will have _one_ brand available,
and it will be the lowest cost one.

Lowes carries Bostik , Bruce, Tecsun, Mohawk, and USFloor. 3 1/2 or 4
gallon containers $160, $89, $190, $220, and $192 US prices
repectively.

Are you looking on the website or in the store? My store
carries Bruce. That's the only hardwood flooring adhesive
they actually stock.

Now, they have a ton of choices on the website - but if
you're going to special order it, you might as well go to
a flooring store anyway.

John
My stores, locally, don't stock the hardwood either, so if you are
going to order the wood, you may as well order the adhesive as well.
ANd if youy are ordering it, you may as well order the stuff
recommended by the manufacturer. No?? If Bruce Hardwood says use Bruce
adhesive - use it. Then they don't have a leg to stand on if something
goes wrong. - or use Bostik - the "industry standard".

wrote in news:1392ea5m8ocne2gjprgv8c7d6gtd9nkoc9@
4ax.com:

My stores, locally, don't stock the hardwood either, so if you are
going to order the wood, you may as well order the adhesive as well.

Well, that was sort of my point.

ANd if youy are ordering it, you may as well order the stuff
recommended by the manufacturer. No??

Good advice, I'd agree.

If Bruce Hardwood says use Bruce
adhesive - use it.

Well, I wouldn't dispute that either. I just wouldn't use Bruce
period - as noted above, my experience is that it's a low quality
product, and you can get better quality for a similar price from
other manufacturers.

John

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:16:07 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:1392ea5m8ocne2gjprgv8c7d6gtd9nkoc9@
4ax.com:

My stores, locally, don't stock the hardwood either, so if you are
going to order the wood, you may as well order the adhesive as well.

Well, that was sort of my point.

ANd if youy are ordering it, you may as well order the stuff
recommended by the manufacturer. No??

Good advice, I'd agree.

If Bruce Hardwood says use Bruce
adhesive - use it.

Well, I wouldn't dispute that either. I just wouldn't use Bruce
period - as noted above, my experience is that it's a low quality
product, and you can get better quality for a similar price from
other manufacturers.

John
Bruce makes the full gammit, from photo-finished dense cardboard to
high quality solid hardwood - to cover the financial limitations of
it's projected customer base, and to get it's products on the shelves
of everything from flooring express to wallmart to Shangrla custom
flooring and diamonds!!

Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood
flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the
product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry
is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot
more if you go to a flooring dealer.

I have not been impressed with a number of things coming out of HD or
Lowes, at least in my area, these past couple years.

(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make
sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I
know this...)
John

I hear you. One of my early flooring jobs was to lay an oak parquet
floor over concrete in the lower level of a house. It was later
subjected to tons of moisture, which we didn't know at the time. That
floor looked like a crazy rollercoaster for a few years until we got
the moisture issues addressed, rpleaced some tiles and provided more
air circulation. It was glued to concrete and, aside from being a pain
to pull up, it was a pain to lay as the glue setup fast. My fingers
and hands hurt for days afterward. It looked good when dry!
`Casper

I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking
Casper
When you say "it", you mean the current floor right?

You know, the funny part was they really never gave me a clear answer
on floor and or cabinets. The words floor and cabinets seemed to be
interchangeable during that discussion.

Lightweight concrete can be up to 80% lighter than conventional. But
you have to talk to competent people. It's amazing what they can do
to the concrete surface. Stamping, coloring and other tricks.
But that means more $$. Ask someone that knows their stuff with
concrete

I agree. My mother wanted to put is a small patio with pavers but the
locals were charging $2200+ for a 10x10 patio, and additional to
remove and rebuild her single doorstep. I told her screw that and go
with stamped concrete. Once I explained it to her, we got a local guy,
she picked a slate pattern and now loves her $1200 patio.

into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock

They are wrong.

I tried to tell my friend that but he stopped listening to me years
ago. To give you an idea of his logic ...

1. Changed propane stove to electric. Got an oversized connection wire
so stove heats up faster because more electrons move through the
larger wire. Now his wife can't pre-heat because it ruins the food.

2. Wanted a larger fridge. Told him he'd have to remove a cabinet or
move fridge to a different location. Not enough space between
cabinets, stove and wall and it needs circulation. He shoved it in and
the new fridge has a crease down both sides from cabinet and wall.
Absolustely no space except what might be behind it and about an inch
above it. He can't move the fridge w/o more damage.

3. Only kitchen window is rotting out from the bottom up. Why? Well ir
may be due to it being over sink but it's probably more likely that
it's because they splash everywhere, water flowers directly on the
window from the sprayer and empty/refill their 125 turtle tank from
that sink.

4. I refer to my friend as Tim Taylor. Why? Well one day he wanted to
fix a wall switch/outlet but couldn't get it out, so he took his
sawsall and cut through the wall. Yes, before looking. Yes, he cut
through a power line. Yes, his wife, who was drying her hair, freaked
out. Yes, this man needs a supervision.

and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.

As you say it's BS
Electric Comet

His cabinets are on the cheap side but not that cheap. He got lied to
but will never admit it.

He bought vinyl flooring from tiny dealer who never removed old
flooring nails or fixed other flooring problems before laying new
vinyl. Now his bedroom and bathroom floors are full of little bumps,
sags and dips from the nails, etc. He called to complain two weeks
later and (ready for it?), the business was gone. Empty. Vamoosed.

`Casper