On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:38:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2015 3:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Casper wrote:
I'm sorry - gotta call BS on this. Twisted 90 degrees or more?
Exageration to prove a point is one thing, but that's one motengator
exageration.
Mike Marlow

I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.

I'd really love to see this. It's so extreme that one almost has to see a
picture to believe it's possible.


We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.

Can't blame you for that - we're at about the same. No need for going
outside unless one must.

He went hot tub shopping that summer (deck built in April), then
changed his mind. I asked him if he gave up on tub and he showed me
the twisted beams and gaps between bolts and house. He said he wasn't
comfortable with adding the weight until that was resolved. As far as
I know, it was not altered in any way, yet.

Ya just have to wonder what in the hell he could have bought to have twisted
that much. I mean - that just isn't normal even under the worst of
circumstances.



I really don't want to get off topic but it seems almost impossible
when discussions start here. At any rate, I am still researching
flooring options. I don't make decisions quickly or lightly unless
they need be. I recently saw a floor done with epoxy (?) and beer
caps. Not my cup of tea but it looked pretty good. I have no idea how
that will hold up in a bathroom but I bet it won't be easy to remove.

I saw that too. Not my cup of tea but to each, his own I guess.

While a 90 degree twist might seem exaggerated, there is not much
telling what the support beam is. I have seen construction lumber bow
and twist to the extent that I would be embarrassed to sell it. It
looked like a strip of fried bacon.

I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to ease
entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the surface boards
3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have warped so severely that
they have broken the Deck screws holding them in place.
I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.

If they warped "90 degrees or more" that would present quite a tripping hazard. ;-)

My first major build after buying my house was a 10'x 14' deck off of the family room. This deck is 6' off of the ground with a set of stairs for access to the back yard.

Not ever having dealt with PT wood before, I was warned by numerous people about the twisting and the warping that I should expect. It was even suggested that I shouldn't build the railing in the manner I wanted to because it would be hard to replace the balusters once they start twisting and bending. (I did it anyway)

It's 30+ years later and I have only replaced two small sections of decking because one board split and another rotted out. The rotted board had a knot that fell out, allowing moisture to get into the interior of the board.

I recall having to return a few boards because they warped before I even installed them, but I have not had any twisting or warping issues with any other deck boards, balusters, railings, beams, posts, etc. Maybe I was just lucky, maybe I was good enough to choose the best boards. In any case, 30+ years later and I still love that deck.

The previous owners lived in the house for 30 years and raised 4 kids. They never had direct access to the back yard, even though the RO for a patio door was basically already there via side-by-side double hung windows in the family room. The first time I was in the house I looked out that window at the backyard 6 feet below and immediately said "This house needs a deck." I started building it within a month of moving in.

On 2/20/15 10:02 AM, Casper wrote:
More unusual flooring...
http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/pr...he-environment
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866552490/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093428/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093425/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093423/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093412/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093413/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/

To be honest, most of those look like ****. -MIKE-

You really think so? Taste is a personal thing. I have seen two
floors very similar to a couple of those links. One is in a home and
the owners love it. The other is in a business and everyone there
thinks it looks cool and it has held up for several years already.


I said "most." The custom parquet in the first pintrest link and the
end-grain "tiles" are very cool and look well crafted. I think there
was one other of those "barn wood" type plank floors that looked
finished, and like it had been completed someone who didn't buy his
tools last weekend.
Un-sanded wood and freakin finish screws! Are you kidding me? Many
looked like they barely had a top coat on them. Big, uneven seams
between most of the boards.


What do you think of these floors?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/459507968204127270/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/475059460665098297/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/43487952626037346/ I certainly think
those are boring and ugly.


So are you saying you don't like the "look" of stone or you just don't
like laminate because it's fake? Because one of those pics is a
laminate that "looks" like your first set of pics, ugly wood planks put
down on the floor. I'm not being a smart ass, I'm really asking.


Apparently I'm not the only one in the world who prefers
originality. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/524458319076036482/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/327848047845526342/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/270567890088052265/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/204421270559972525/


You can have originality AND quality. The first pics you posted reflect
a trend that can probably be blamed on all the home and garden
television shows in which artistic interior decorators who look good on
camera but have as much experience and craftsmanship under their belt as
the 17 year old fry cook at the local Mickey-Dees go into a home with
ideas that certainly qualify as "original" but severely lack any
functionality and longevity, and remodel it.

There seems to be this pervasive ideology in interior design that
because you're using old, rustic, oft-recycled materials which are rough
and imperfect in appearance that the installation of those materials can
also be rough and imperfect. There's a reason that $h!t started out of
a barn you numbskulls. :-)

I've seen recycled barn wood done properly, with excellence in esthetics
AND craftsmanship, combining durability and functionality. And I've
seen stuff like in most of those first pics you posted.

The big trend now is to put barn wood up on a wall for wainscoting or
all the way up on say, a fireplace wall. They just put it up with
drywall screws. I mean, if you're going to try to make your living room
look like a stable, at least use period fasteners.


As for tastes, tomayto tomahto. If I am going to live with
something, flooring, furniture, art, etc., I am certainly picking
what I like.


I totally agree. Like my grandfather used to say, "If we all liked the
same things, everyone would be chasin' after your grandma."

Also, if I am going to live with something, flooring, furniture, art,
etc., it had better be well made and installed with skill and experience
to insure it functions properly and for a long time.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I found another example of plywood flooring done DiY and they actually
give more information on how they did it.
http://www.centsationalgirl.com/2014...-plank-floors/

I like the driftwood, which makes the nails a bit less noticeable.

Ok, last one. I really like this one because it's different and fun. I
am certain some won't agree. Notice the name on the link.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866556915/

Leon wrote:


I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have never
seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be sumptin' in
the Houstin air...


I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.

I just can't imagine a 90 degree plus twist though. I've seen green - fresh
cut timbers that don't move anywhere near that. There's something really
extreme about a 90 degree twist that just is not the norm or even easy to
believe.

--

-Mike-

On 2/20/15 11:56 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch
to ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding
them in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have
never seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be
sumptin' in the Houstin air...


I could imagine a support beam possibly doing the same.

I just can't imagine a 90 degree plus twist though. I've seen green
- fresh cut timbers that don't move anywhere near that. There's
something really extreme about a 90 degree twist that just is not the
norm or even easy to believe.


First house I built, there wasn't much competition for lumber suppliers.
I had a joist span that was to be 20' with a bearing wall somewhere in
between, I just didn't know where yet. So I ordered 20' 2x12s for the
span, knowing they would hold themselves up that far temporarily, until
I decided where to put the wall underneath. (This was before I-joists
and floor trusses were quasi-affordable like there are now.)

About a third of them were so twisted, they couldn't be bent back
straight again. I kid you not-- no exaggeration-- a couple were twisted
at least 45°. Yes, we sighted up a speed square against the ends. Now,
for sake of hyperbole and a better "fish tale," the story I told folks
for years was that you could look down a joist and see a cross-hairs at
the end. :-)

So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having seen
it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale and chalk
it up to hyperbole. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Leon wrote:


I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have never
seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be sumptin'
in the Houstin air...

Moisture maybe? A fellow bought the place next door (10 acres.central
Florida) and hired a fence around the perimeter. Post & rail PT. The
3/4" rails didn't break the screws but they did pull put of them. I was
always chucking his boards back over the fence.

He sold, new guy rebuilt the fence; or, the rail part at least. Also used
an "X" between rails. No idea how he fastened them but they have been
good for the last couple of years.

I'd like to see the 90 degree twist too. NOT saying it doesn't exist,
just curious.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

-MIKE- wrote:

So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having
seen it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale
and chalk it up to hyperbole. :-)

That's why I called it a motingaror exageration. Sorta recognizing that.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Leon wrote:


I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have
never seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be
sumptin' in the Houstin air...

I had one (just one) do that on my deck. Pain to fix, too;
I wanted to cut across it a ways back from the bend, but I
didn't want to remove the adjacent planks to allow using a
circular saw. Plus unscrewing deck screws is a 50/50
proposition at best (often it's simpler just get a big
prybar and break them).

John

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:22:07 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Leon wrote:


I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have
never seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be
sumptin' in the Houstin air...

I had one (just one) do that on my deck. Pain to fix, too;
I wanted to cut across it a ways back from the bend, but I
didn't want to remove the adjacent planks to allow using a
circular saw. Plus unscrewing deck screws is a 50/50
proposition at best (often it's simpler just get a big
prybar and break them).

John

That's what one of these is for:

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-t...ool-61219.html

Find the closest joist(s) after the bend and cut out the offending section along the mid-point of the top of the joist(s) probably starting with the half moon blade for the majority of the cut and finishing with a straight blade plunge cut at the outer edges.

On 2/20/15 2:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having
seen it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale
and chalk it up to hyperbole. :-)

That's why I called it a motingaror exageration. Sorta recognizing that.


You should know better to use such big words with a drummer.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/20/15 2:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

So 90°? No way in he!!. But I can attest to a 45° twist, having
seen it myself. So maybe we can forgive this guy for his fish tale
and chalk it up to hyperbole. :-)

That's why I called it a motingaror exageration. Sorta recognizing
that.

You should know better to use such big words with a drummer.

Ugh - that was supposed to be motengator...

--

-Mike-

John McCoy wrote:


I had one (just one) do that on my deck. Pain to fix, too;
I wanted to cut across it a ways back from the bend, but I
didn't want to remove the adjacent planks to allow using a
circular saw. Plus unscrewing deck screws is a 50/50
proposition at best (often it's simpler just get a big
prybar and break them).



Good to see you posting here lately John. Things were quite dead over at
the Lake until the past week or so.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

Good to see you posting here lately John. Things were quite dead over
at the Lake until the past week or so.

Yeah, during my temporary retirement last year I was trying
to do a bit more woodworking, and decided after a several
year break to get back to the wreck. Nice that this group
is still at least a little active.

John

I said "most." The custom parquet in the first pintrest link and the
end-grain "tiles" are very cool and look well crafted. I think there
was one other of those "barn wood" type plank floors that looked
finished, and like it had been completed someone who didn't buy his
tools last weekend.
Un-sanded wood and freakin finish screws! Are you kidding me? Many
looked like they barely had a top coat on them. Big, uneven seams
between most of the boards.

Personally I don't find most barnwood style floors appealing but it
does depend on the look. I lean more toward modern and industrial.

So are you saying you don't like the "look" of stone or you just don't
like laminate because it's fake? Because one of those pics is a
laminate that "looks" like your first set of pics, ugly wood planks put
down on the floor. I'm not being a smart ass, I'm really asking.

I like stone. It's just I usually see more of it I like on the outside
of a house than inside on the floor.

That multi-colored laminate planking does look kinda ugly. It would
probably be good for a bar, restaurant or game hall doing a theme.

You can have originality AND quality. The first pics you posted reflect
a trend that can probably be blamed on all the home and garden
television shows in which artistic interior decorators who look good on
camera but have as much experience and craftsmanship under their belt as
the 17 year old fry cook at the local Mickey-Dees go into a home with
ideas that certainly qualify as "original" but severely lack any
functionality and longevity, and remodel it.

I agree and blame H&G all the time. I hate shopping for furniture for
that very reason. I loathe sales people who stand there and try to
tell me why I should love a particular piece.

When are current couch was delivered, I stopped the delivery people
from bringing in more pieces because the color was wrong. We chose a
light brown/tan. What arrived was off white. The men said call the
store. So I did. Get this, the sales woman said to close the window
shades as I was probably getting too much light in and not seeing it
right. WTH? I had her on speaker phone and the three guys delivering
were shaking their heads and trying not to laugh. I made them take all
the wrong pieces back. I won't be shopping there ever again.

I like real wood, not particle board. I admit I do have an
entertainment center made partially from some manmade stuff which was
painted and not properly coated. It scratches easily. Worse, they make
them all in white then paint over for your preferred color. We're not
watching TV much anymore so ultimately we may get rid of it and put
the LCD on the wall for movies.

There seems to be this pervasive ideology in interior design that
because you're using old, rustic, oft-recycled materials which are rough
and imperfect in appearance that the installation of those materials can
also be rough and imperfect. There's a reason that $h!t started out of
a barn you numbskulls. :-)

LOL. True. I appreciate the rustic look, it's just not my style. I do
however try to recycle when possible. I think we waste too much.

I've seen recycled barn wood done properly, with excellence in esthetics
AND craftsmanship, combining durability and functionality. And I've
seen stuff like in most of those first pics you posted.

I think the end cut boards look interesting but I don't know about it
as flooring. A restaurant near us has some on walls and it looks neat.
I'm certain it's easier to clean on the wall than floor but I'd rather
not be the one trying to dust.

The big trend now is to put barn wood up on a wall for wainscoting or
all the way up on say, a fireplace wall. They just put it up with
drywall screws. I mean, if you're going to try to make your living room
look like a stable, at least use period fasteners.

Agreed.

I totally agree. Like my grandfather used to say, "If we all liked the
same things, everyone would be chasin' after your grandma."

LOL! Your grandfather sounds like a wise man.

.. it had better be well made and installed with skill and experience
to insure it functions properly and for a long time.

I hate having to redo things to fix a bad job.

Casper wrote in
:

I think the end cut boards look interesting but I don't know about it
as flooring. A restaurant near us has some on walls and it looks neat.
I'm certain it's easier to clean on the wall than floor but I'd rather
not be the one trying to dust.

This one?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/191684527866093418/

That's as industrial a look as you can get. Back when I was
doing steam locomotives, that's what we had for a floor in
the shop - 2-bys, about 4" long, set on end (traditionally
it would be 4x4 or 6x6, but we got a whole bunch of scrap
2x so used what we had).

The idea there is when you drop some heavy part (there are
no light parts on a steam locomotive) it just dents the
floor, instead of breaking.

Of course, cleaning was just an occasional pass with the
push-broom. Dust wasn't high on our list of concerns.

John

On 2/20/2015 2:25 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

Leon wrote:


I have a small deck in front of my store room, basically a porch to
ease entry into the store room. I used 5/4 TP decking for the
surface boards 3 years ago. 3 or 4 times those top boards have
warped so severely that they have broken the Deck screws holding them
in place.

Holy cow - I have dealt with a fair amount of deck boards and have never
seen one twist or move so much as to break the screws. Must be sumptin'
in the Houstin air...

Moisture maybe? A fellow bought the place next door (10 acres.central
Florida) and hired a fence around the perimeter. Post & rail PT. The
3/4" rails didn't break the screws but they did pull put of them. I was
always chucking his boards back over the fence.

Absolutely a moisture situation. Dries out on top, breaks deck screws,
and raises 3~4 inches. Running the yard sprinkler on the surface helps
to straighten the boards back to normal.





He sold, new guy rebuilt the fence; or, the rail part at least. Also
used an "X" between rails. No idea how he fastened them but they have
been good for the last couple of years.

I'd like to see the 90 degree twist too. NOT saying it doesn't exist,
just curious.