On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:03:18 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 2/12/14, 11:49 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/11/2014 7:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-) I'm quite
certain, however, that this is not done today.

Probably regional, but around here 95% of the cabinets in 'builder
built' spec/custom homes (excluding most large scale, National, tract
home builders who use prefab boxes) are still 'built-in place', but
not in the same manner as the old days, when union carpenters were
still aplenty.

Nailed together, solid wood faceframes, plywood side panels and
floors, backless, and attached straight to the drywall, is prevalent
today.

(in the good old days, the wall behind the cabinets was often tongue
and groove lumber, or 3/4" plywood -- and in some cases where the
room was paneled, paneling.)

Done properly and by a skilled cabinetmaker, particularly in old
construction and in restoration work, still a good way to maximize
space and get a custom fit.

Unfortunately, today it is rarely done properly, even in million
dollar homes in many areas ... mostly due to a lack of unskilled,
unsupervised labor, who take every shortcut imaginable because they
have no cultural basis for pride in their work, or skin in the game.

Add to that the fact that construction lumber nowadays is plantation
grown, new growth, varying widely in moisture content despite being
kiln dried, and therefore unstable, structures are subject to
movement due to dimensional instability in the months/years to come.
Meaning nothing attached stays square and in place.

I am routinely called upon to fix kitchen and bath cabinet doors,
drawers, trim, crown, and reattach intermediate stiles, on $1m+ homes
that are less than ten years old.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg ... it is hard to believe
some of the framing, electrical and plumbing crap we uncover when
doing a remodel on homes less than twenty years old these days.

In short, it is almost unbelievable the prevalence of poorly built
residences in even the high dollar, prestigious neighborhoods in some
regions these days.


The stories are too long and plentiful. If we ever meet in person, I'll
share some of the many experiences I've had fixing those mistakes in the
half-million+ dollar McMansions around here.

Halfamegabuck doesn't buy much of a McMansion, more like a McBungalo
in many areas of the country.

BillinGA wrote:
Re plywood faceframes- my SIL made cabinets for a relative. They were
painted with oil base that laid down very well. I was skeptical when
he told me he was going to make the ff's out of ply. He sanded all
exposed edges carefully. I don't know how he came up with such void
free plywood but I was very impressed with the finish...no sign of
the layers. It looks just like painted mdf or solid wood. It is one
of those things I would not believe if I had not seen it for myself.
I still wouldn't do it that way but it worked for him.

Likewise - my dad built our kitchen cupboards out of birch plywood back in
the early 60's. I don't know what he did but you do not see the plys in the
face frames - even now, some 40 years later. I'm sure there was nothing
fancy he did because my dad was not an accomplished woodworker. Whatever he
did was simple and it worked.

--

-Mike-

On 2/12/14, 1:48 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:03:18 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 2/12/14, 11:49 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/11/2014 7:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-) I'm quite
certain, however, that this is not done today.

Probably regional, but around here 95% of the cabinets in 'builder
built' spec/custom homes (excluding most large scale, National, tract
home builders who use prefab boxes) are still 'built-in place', but
not in the same manner as the old days, when union carpenters were
still aplenty.

Nailed together, solid wood faceframes, plywood side panels and
floors, backless, and attached straight to the drywall, is prevalent
today.

(in the good old days, the wall behind the cabinets was often tongue
and groove lumber, or 3/4" plywood -- and in some cases where the
room was paneled, paneling.)

Done properly and by a skilled cabinetmaker, particularly in old
construction and in restoration work, still a good way to maximize
space and get a custom fit.

Unfortunately, today it is rarely done properly, even in million
dollar homes in many areas ... mostly due to a lack of unskilled,
unsupervised labor, who take every shortcut imaginable because they
have no cultural basis for pride in their work, or skin in the game.

Add to that the fact that construction lumber nowadays is plantation
grown, new growth, varying widely in moisture content despite being
kiln dried, and therefore unstable, structures are subject to
movement due to dimensional instability in the months/years to come.
Meaning nothing attached stays square and in place.

I am routinely called upon to fix kitchen and bath cabinet doors,
drawers, trim, crown, and reattach intermediate stiles, on $1m+ homes
that are less than ten years old.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg ... it is hard to believe
some of the framing, electrical and plumbing crap we uncover when
doing a remodel on homes less than twenty years old these days.

In short, it is almost unbelievable the prevalence of poorly built
residences in even the high dollar, prestigious neighborhoods in some
regions these days.


The stories are too long and plentiful. If we ever meet in person, I'll
share some of the many experiences I've had fixing those mistakes in the
half-million+ dollar McMansions around here.

Halfamegabuck doesn't buy much of a McMansion, more like a McBungalo
in many areas of the country.


I don't live in many areas of the country. I live here. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:09:50 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 2/12/14, 1:48 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:03:18 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 2/12/14, 11:49 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/11/2014 7:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-) I'm quite
certain, however, that this is not done today.

Probably regional, but around here 95% of the cabinets in 'builder
built' spec/custom homes (excluding most large scale, National, tract
home builders who use prefab boxes) are still 'built-in place', but
not in the same manner as the old days, when union carpenters were
still aplenty.

Nailed together, solid wood faceframes, plywood side panels and
floors, backless, and attached straight to the drywall, is prevalent
today.

(in the good old days, the wall behind the cabinets was often tongue
and groove lumber, or 3/4" plywood -- and in some cases where the
room was paneled, paneling.)

Done properly and by a skilled cabinetmaker, particularly in old
construction and in restoration work, still a good way to maximize
space and get a custom fit.

Unfortunately, today it is rarely done properly, even in million
dollar homes in many areas ... mostly due to a lack of unskilled,
unsupervised labor, who take every shortcut imaginable because they
have no cultural basis for pride in their work, or skin in the game.

Add to that the fact that construction lumber nowadays is plantation
grown, new growth, varying widely in moisture content despite being
kiln dried, and therefore unstable, structures are subject to
movement due to dimensional instability in the months/years to come.
Meaning nothing attached stays square and in place.

I am routinely called upon to fix kitchen and bath cabinet doors,
drawers, trim, crown, and reattach intermediate stiles, on $1m+ homes
that are less than ten years old.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg ... it is hard to believe
some of the framing, electrical and plumbing crap we uncover when
doing a remodel on homes less than twenty years old these days.

In short, it is almost unbelievable the prevalence of poorly built
residences in even the high dollar, prestigious neighborhoods in some
regions these days.


The stories are too long and plentiful. If we ever meet in person, I'll
share some of the many experiences I've had fixing those mistakes in the
half-million+ dollar McMansions around here.

Halfamegabuck doesn't buy much of a McMansion, more like a McBungalo
in many areas of the country.


I don't live in many areas of the country. I live here. :-)

I don't live in an expensive area, either, but a halfamegabuck doesn't
buy much of a "McMansion", even here. Sure, one can spend pretty much
whatever you want but labor and material costs kinda set the bottom
end.

On 2/12/2014 2:33 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
BillinGA wrote:
Re plywood faceframes- my SIL made cabinets for a relative. They were
painted with oil base that laid down very well. I was skeptical when
he told me he was going to make the ff's out of ply. He sanded all
exposed edges carefully. I don't know how he came up with such void
free plywood but I was very impressed with the finish...no sign of
the layers. It looks just like painted mdf or solid wood. It is one
of those things I would not believe if I had not seen it for myself.
I still wouldn't do it that way but it worked for him.

Likewise - my dad built our kitchen cupboards out of birch plywood back in
the early 60's. I don't know what he did but you do not see the plys in the
face frames - even now, some 40 years later. I'm sure there was nothing
fancy he did because my dad was not an accomplished woodworker. Whatever he
did was simple and it worked.


One of the simple ways to hide the edges for the plywood face frames was
to stop the side ends of the face frame, normally the stile, even with
the inner side of the side of the cabinet. The side of the cabinet
stopped even with the back of the face frame.


So if you are picturing this correctly the corner of the cabinet where
the face frame and side of the cabinet meet forms a 3/4" x 3/4" void at
the out side front end corner. That was filled with a piece of plywood
that was a right triangle that fit into that square void. The corners
of the cabinet appeared to be 45'ed.

On 2/9/2014 7:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after it
arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.
Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it up. To be fair,
my sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's not
likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of job out of it that any
standard sharpening service would provide. But - I did it, and the blade
did cut noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a
60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night
from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could possibly be here as
early as Tuesday. I'm looking forward to this thing.

Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long that
I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.



OK Mike, lets hear a report on the new blade!

Leon wrote:

OK Mike, lets hear a report on the new blade!

Ok - all I've had a chance to do is to make a few cuts. Been too busy to do
much else. But - I installed it and I ran some of my walnut through it. I
was just shaving off the very least amount to remove the burns from my
previous blade. Absolute beauty! Clean, smooth, and ready for sex. My
previous blade left a smooth cut but it burned pretty good in an 8/4 cut.
Can't compare that at this point.

I really have to wait a bit to get into something that will show off this
blade to it's fulest potential. Though I will say this much - having run
the styles through a planer to true the faces, and having run one piece over
a jonter, this blade is producing as clean and glue-able ede as the planer
did..

I have to wait to find the real tetst and run something of conesequence
through it I have to admit that I'm anxious to see the result of that.

--

-Mike-