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Default Pulled the trigger on a Woodworker II

Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after it
arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.
Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it up. To be fair,
my sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's not
likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of job out of it that any
standard sharpening service would provide. But - I did it, and the blade
did cut noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a
60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night
from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could possibly be here as
early as Tuesday. I'm looking forward to this thing.

Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long that
I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.

--

-Mike-



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Default Pulled the trigger on a Woodworker II

Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after it
arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.
Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it up. To be fair,
my sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's not
likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of job out of it that any
standard sharpening service would provide. But - I did it, and the blade
did cut noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a
60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night
from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could possibly be here as
early as Tuesday. I'm looking forward to this thing.

Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long that
I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.


I can't wait until you get it (the blade)! I'm planning to press the
buy button soon too.

Bill


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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.


60 tooth blade.


Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.


60 tooth is way too many teeth for ripping... the gullets are way too small
to carry the waste away... and it is undoubtedly a cross cut grind.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night


Better than the 60 tooth for sure but I'd take my WWII off and put on my
Freud 24 tooth rip blade for such a task. A rip grind and large gullets do a
better job... I use a standard kerf blade as I've got 3 HP. If you have a
1.5 or 1.75 HP saw the thin kerf may be better...

The vast majority of the time my WWII is on the saw but when lots of ripping
is involved it's either the rip blade or the bandsaw!



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On 2/9/14, 7:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after it
arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.
Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it up. To be fair,
my sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's not
likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of job out of it that any
standard sharpening service would provide. But - I did it, and the blade
did cut noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a
60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night
from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could possibly be here as
early as Tuesday. I'm looking forward to this thing.

Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long that
I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.



That last line was hilarious! What's the website? For the blade, not
the sex.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.


60 tooth blade.


Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.


60 tooth is way too many teeth for ripping... the gullets are way too small
to carry the waste away... and it is undoubtedly a cross cut grind.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night


Better than the 60 tooth for sure but I'd take my WWII off and put on my
Freud 24 tooth rip blade for such a task. A rip grind and large gullets do a
better job... I use a standard kerf blade as I've got 3 HP. If you have a
1.5 or 1.75 HP saw the thin kerf may be better...

The vast majority of the time my WWII is on the saw but when lots of ripping
is involved it's either the rip blade or the bandsaw!




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-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/9/14, 7:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after
it arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going
so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it
up. To be fair, my sharpener is probably best suited for circular
saw blades, and it's not likely at all that I'm getting the same
quality of job out of it that any standard sharpening service would
provide. But - I did it, and the blade did cut noticeably better. Only
takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a 60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage
pretty good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning
on each cut. So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the
piggy
bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it
Saturday night from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should
be very fast - they are located only 1/2 way across NY state from
me. Could possibly be here as early as Tuesday. I'm looking
forward to this thing. Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't
had that in so long
that I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.



That last line was hilarious! What's the website? For the blade,
not the sex.


www.sliversmill.com



I think this is about as cheap as you're going to find this blade.


--

-Mike-



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Default Pulled the trigger on a Woodworker II

On 2/9/2014 8:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after it
arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.
Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it up. To be fair,
my sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's not
likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of job out of it that any
standard sharpening service would provide. But - I did it, and the blade
did cut noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a
60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night
from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could possibly be here as
early as Tuesday. I'm looking forward to this thing.

Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long that
I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.


You won't regret it at all. 40 or 48 tooth?

--
Jeff
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woodchucker wrote:
On 2/9/2014 8:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after
it arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going
so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it
up. To be fair, my sharpener is probably best suited for circular
saw blades, and it's not likely at all that I'm getting the same
quality of job out of it that any standard sharpening service would
provide. But - I did it, and the blade did cut noticeably better. Only
takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a 60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage
pretty good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning
on each cut. So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the
piggy
bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it
Saturday night from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should
be very fast - they are located only 1/2 way across NY state from
me. Could possibly be here as early as Tuesday. I'm looking
forward to this thing. Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't
had that in so long
that I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.


You won't regret it at all. 40 or 48 tooth?


Sorry - should have said that shouldn't I? 40 tooth.

--

-Mike-



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Larry Kraus wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:


Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long
that I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.


I understand your excitement, but I hope you realize there are types
of wood the WWII should NOT be used on. At least not if you have any
hope of ever having sex again...


My wife just advised me that's not an issue... TYVM...

--

-Mike-



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"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so
that after it arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it
was going so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my
sharpener and touched it up. To be fair, my sharpener is
probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's
not likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of
job out of it that any standard sharpening service would
provide. But - I did it, and the blade did cut
noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to
sharpen a 60 tooth blade.
Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up
the garage pretty good. The cuts were very smooth but
there was some burning on each cut.
So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash
the piggy bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took
the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night from a site that
Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could
possibly be here as early as Tuesday. I'm looking
forward to this thing.



Which Woodworker ll? The 30 tooth one I hope. If many teeth and ATB then
spend a little more money and buy a 20-30 tooth flat grind blade that is
meant for ripping. Not easy to find but last time I looked Freud still made
them.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net




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On 2/10/2014 10:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so
that after it arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it
was going so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my
sharpener and touched it up. To be fair, my sharpener is
probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's
not likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of
job out of it that any standard sharpening service would
provide. But - I did it, and the blade did cut
noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to
sharpen a 60 tooth blade.
Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up
the garage pretty good. The cuts were very smooth but
there was some burning on each cut.
So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash
the piggy bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took
the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night from a site that
Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could
possibly be here as early as Tuesday. I'm looking
forward to this thing.



Which Woodworker ll? The 30 tooth one I hope. If many teeth and ATB then
spend a little more money and buy a 20-30 tooth flat grind blade that is
meant for ripping. Not easy to find but last time I looked Freud still made
them.


The 40 tooth one is the best overall blade.
It does crosscutting and ply better than the 30 would.

If you look all the WW blades are ATB, even their rip blades. Only their
miter saw blade has flat teeth.



--
Jeff
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Mike Marlow wrote:
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so that after it
arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it was going so-so.
Took my blade out and put it in my sharpener and touched it up. To be fair,
my sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's not
likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of job out of it that any
standard sharpening service would provide. But - I did it, and the blade
did cut noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a
60 tooth blade.

Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up the garage pretty
good. The cuts were very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.

So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash the piggy bank and
buy a Woodworker II, I finally took the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night
from a site that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could possibly be here as
early as Tuesday. I'm looking forward to this thing.

Leon tells me it's as good as sex, and I haven't had that in so long that
I'm really looking forward to this thing arriving.


Please don't use it for sex. (DAMHIK). :-)

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @
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On 2/10/2014 10:14 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/10/2014 10:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so
that after it arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it
was going so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my
sharpener and touched it up. To be fair, my sharpener is
probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's
not likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of
job out of it that any standard sharpening service would
provide. But - I did it, and the blade did cut
noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to
sharpen a 60 tooth blade.
Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up
the garage pretty good. The cuts were very smooth but
there was some burning on each cut.
So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash
the piggy bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took
the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night from a site that
Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could
possibly be here as early as Tuesday. I'm looking
forward to this thing.



Which Woodworker ll? The 30 tooth one I hope. If many teeth and ATB
then
spend a little more money and buy a 20-30 tooth flat grind blade that is
meant for ripping. Not easy to find but last time I looked Freud
still made
them.


The 40 tooth one is the best overall blade.
It does crosscutting and ply better than the 30 would.

If you look all the WW blades are ATB, even their rip blades. Only their
miter saw blade has flat teeth.






Actually the WW10401125 blade is a flat grind, 40 tooth WW2 1/8" kerf
It is one of 6 special grind WW2 Customized blades that Forrest offers.

At the bottom of the page.

http://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker_2.htm




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On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:14:30 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 2/10/2014 10:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this, so
that after it arrives I can talk more about how it works.

I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and it
was going so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my
sharpener and touched it up. To be fair, my sharpener is
probably best suited for circular saw blades, and it's
not likely at all that I'm getting the same quality of
job out of it that any standard sharpening service would
provide. But - I did it, and the blade did cut
noticeably better. Only takes about 20 minutes or so to
sharpen a 60 tooth blade.
Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still smoking up
the garage pretty good. The cuts were very smooth but
there was some burning on each cut.
So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash
the piggy bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took
the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night from a site that
Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very fast - they
are located only 1/2 way across NY state from me. Could
possibly be here as early as Tuesday. I'm looking
forward to this thing.



Which Woodworker ll? The 30 tooth one I hope. If many teeth and ATB then
spend a little more money and buy a 20-30 tooth flat grind blade that is
meant for ripping. Not easy to find but last time I looked Freud still made
them.


The 40 tooth one is the best overall blade.
It does crosscutting and ply better than the 30 would.

If you look all the WW blades are ATB, even their rip blades. Only their
miter saw blade has flat teeth.


They also have a flat (#1) grind for box joints, and such.
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"woodchucker" wrote in message

On 2/10/2014 10:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this,
so that after it arrives I can talk more about how it
works. I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and
it was going so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my
sharpener and touched it up. To be fair, my
sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw
blades, and it's not likely at all that I'm getting
the same quality of job out of it that any standard
sharpening service would provide. But - I did it,
and the blade did cut noticeably better. Only takes
about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a 60 tooth blade.
Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still
smoking up the garage pretty good. The cuts were
very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.
So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash
the piggy bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took
the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night from a site
that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very
fast - they are located only 1/2 way across NY state
from me. Could possibly be here as early as Tuesday.
I'm looking forward to this thing.



Which Woodworker ll? The 30 tooth one I hope. If many
teeth and ATB then spend a little more money and buy a
20-30 tooth flat grind blade that is meant for ripping.
Not easy to find but last time I looked Freud still
made them.

The 40 tooth one is the best overall blade.
It does crosscutting and ply better than the 30 would.


True. But it is also true that a lower tooth blade rips better. Especially
a flat ground one.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net




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On 2/11/2014 7:07 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote in message

On 2/10/2014 10:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
message
Ok - I just gotta get the conversation going on this,
so that after it arrives I can talk more about how it
works. I was ripping a slab of 8/4 walnut Saturday night and
it was going so-so. Took my blade out and put it in my
sharpener and touched it up. To be fair, my
sharpener is probably best suited for circular saw
blades, and it's not likely at all that I'm getting
the same quality of job out of it that any standard
sharpening service would provide. But - I did it,
and the blade did cut noticeably better. Only takes
about 20 minutes or so to sharpen a 60 tooth blade.
Still - it's the wrong blade, and it was still
smoking up the garage pretty good. The cuts were
very smooth but there was some burning on each cut.
So - after threatening for god-knows-how-long to smash
the piggy bank and buy a Woodworker II, I finally took
the plunge. Ordered it Saturday night from a site
that Leon pointed me to. Shipping should be very
fast - they are located only 1/2 way across NY state
from me. Could possibly be here as early as Tuesday.
I'm looking forward to this thing.


Which Woodworker ll? The 30 tooth one I hope. If many
teeth and ATB then spend a little more money and buy a
20-30 tooth flat grind blade that is meant for ripping.
Not easy to find but last time I looked Freud still
made them.

The 40 tooth one is the best overall blade.
It does crosscutting and ply better than the 30 would.


True. But it is also true that a lower tooth blade rips better. Especially
a flat ground one.




And that is probably true but Mike is moving from a blade that he
sharpens himself, his old blade probably has shark teeth or flint rock
for teeth, the previous owner of the blade was Fred Flintstone, to one
of the very best blades.

He wants the most bang for his buck and typically a blade that is better
for ripping is not so good for crosscutting where as a "very good"
general or combo blade is great for cross cutting and still pretty darn
good for ripping by comparison 99.5 percent of the time.

If his saw is set up properly he will likely wonder why he would ever
need to switch to rip blade and or see limited benefit that may not
justify purchasing a good rip blade that can out perform the WWII 40 tooth.

Looooooong ago I swapped blades when going from ripping to cross
cutting. There are still advantages to that, "but for me" the
advantages in the last 23 years have not warranted the time to swap
blades. AAMOF I don't think I own a dedicated rip blade any more.

I'm not trying to preach to the choir or to dismiss anything that anyone
has to say about which blade works best for themselves.
I'm mostly replying here to reassure Mike that, if his saw is set up
properly, he is going to be very very happy with this new blade for most
everything that he is going to cut on his TS for a very long time.

And Mike I can give you some tips for getting good cross cuts in plywood
even when the new blade has some miles on it and may be due for a
resharpening some years down the road. I use these techniques even on a
fresh blade just out of habit.

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Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

*snip*


And Mike I can give you some tips for getting good cross cuts in
plywood even when the new blade has some miles on it and may be due
for a resharpening some years down the road. I use these techniques
even on a fresh blade just out of habit.


Do we have to tune in next week, Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
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On 2/11/2014 8:42 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

*snip*


And Mike I can give you some tips for getting good cross cuts in
plywood even when the new blade has some miles on it and may be due
for a resharpening some years down the road. I use these techniques
even on a fresh blade just out of habit.


Do we have to tune in next week, Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?

Puckdropper



You probably already know this. When I have a $120 sheet of walnut or
cherry that needs to be cross cut I especially don't like to take
chances with splintering/tear out on the bottom side of the panel, top
too for that matter. If your blade is not high enough you can get some
splintering on the top side of the cut so the higher the better so to
speak. The bottom side of the cut becomes a different matter. The
higher the blade the more likely you will get more severe tear out on
the bottom of the cut.

Common techniques to combat this are to use a straight edge and sharp
marking knife or utility knife to prescore the panel. Also the use of a
zero clearance insert can be of benefit.

The problem with both is that the zero clearance insert eventually
becomes less "zero clearance" and provides less support on the bottom
side of the cut. And the strait edge and scoring knife can be tedious
and or less accurate.

Most better European saws offer a scoring blade that is raised slightly
above the surface and directly in front of the main blade. This scoring
blade's only function is to make the cut through the bottom side of the
panel veneer. Well some might use it for other functions but that is
what it's intended use is.

My trick is to raise my blade about 1/8" above the table surface and
make my cut. I then raise the blade to make the complete cut and pass
the work through again. I only do this when cross cutting plywood.

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Default Pulled the trigger on a Woodworker II

On 2/11/2014 9:42 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

*snip*


And Mike I can give you some tips for getting good cross cuts in
plywood even when the new blade has some miles on it and may be due
for a resharpening some years down the road. I use these techniques
even on a fresh blade just out of habit.


Do we have to tune in next week, Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?

Puckdropper

Yes... holly **** batman it's cold out there.

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On 2/11/14, 9:13 AM, Leon wrote:
My trick is to raise my blade about 1/8" above the table surface and
make my cut. I then raise the blade to make the complete cut and pass
the work through again. I only do this when cross cutting plywood.


That's what I did on all the bamboo plywood used in our bathroom(s)
remodel last year.
Works great.


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Leon wrote:


And Mike I can give you some tips for getting good cross cuts in
plywood even when the new blade has some miles on it and may be due
for a resharpening some years down the road. I use these techniques
even on a fresh blade just out of habit.


Fire away Leon, because this project will require cutting plywood. Both
1/4" walnut ply and 1/2" ply (undecided what that ply will be - it's for the
dividers and thus will not be as visible.)

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Leon wrote:


Common techniques to combat this are to use a straight edge and sharp
marking knife or utility knife to prescore the panel. Also the use
of a zero clearance insert can be of benefit.


The trick with scoring I was already aware of but I don't think I've ever
done that. So - if you score - do you score right where the center of the
teeth would be, or cut with the teeth on the waste side of the score? I
suspect the latter...


Most better European saws offer a scoring blade that is raised
slightly above the surface and directly in front of the main blade. This
scoring blade's only function is to make the cut through the
bottom side of the panel veneer. Well some might use it for other
functions but that is what it's intended use is.

My trick is to raise my blade about 1/8" above the table surface and
make my cut. I then raise the blade to make the complete cut and pass
the work through again. I only do this when cross cutting plywood.


This seems to be much more practical.

--

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On 2/11/2014 12:21 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


And Mike I can give you some tips for getting good cross cuts in
plywood even when the new blade has some miles on it and may be due
for a resharpening some years down the road. I use these techniques
even on a fresh blade just out of habit.


Fire away Leon, because this project will require cutting plywood. Both
1/4" walnut ply and 1/2" ply (undecided what that ply will be - it's for the
dividers and thus will not be as visible.)



I responded to puckdropper. ;~)
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On 2/11/2014 12:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Common techniques to combat this are to use a straight edge and sharp
marking knife or utility knife to prescore the panel. Also the use
of a zero clearance insert can be of benefit.


The trick with scoring I was already aware of but I don't think I've ever
done that. So - if you score - do you score right where the center of the
teeth would be, or cut with the teeth on the waste side of the score? I
suspect the latter...



To do it right, you score on the keeper side of the edge of the cut.
That is quite often both sides of the blade.




Most better European saws offer a scoring blade that is raised
slightly above the surface and directly in front of the main blade. This
scoring blade's only function is to make the cut through the
bottom side of the panel veneer. Well some might use it for other
functions but that is what it's intended use is.

My trick is to raise my blade about 1/8" above the table surface and
make my cut. I then raise the blade to make the complete cut and pass
the work through again. I only do this when cross cutting plywood.


This seems to be much more practical.


Absolutely, and probably the easiest simplest and fastest. A note, it is
easier to make rough and slightly over sized cuts so that you have
manageable pieces to work with, if you can spare the waste. Then trim
to size making the two height cuts.





One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape down
over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood, that might
splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the tape, unless you
were very careful with the direction that you pull it, you might do more
harm.
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"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message


Looooooong ago I swapped blades when going from ripping
to cross cutting.


Me too. It was a real nuisance so i bought another saw
________________

I'm mostly replying here to reassure Mike that, if his
saw is set up properly, he is going to be very very happy
with this new blade for most everything that he is going
to cut on his TS for a very long time.


I too am certain he will.

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On 2/11/14, 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape
down over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood,
that might splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the
tape, unless you were very careful with the direction that you pull
it, you might do more harm.


It only takes one time to learn the lesson on that! :-)

I worked with some pre-finished birch plywood from a local supplier for
the first time on a recent project. I was amazed at how the finish
prevented most tear-out. Ever since then, I have started to put most of
the layers of finish on plywood before cutting (or right after rough
sizing). Not only does it cut down on tear-out, but it's so much easier
to finish those larger sheets. Then you're left with minor sanding and
the final coat on the finished project.

If you don't want to go into too many finish steps on the plywood, I
have found that even a coat or two of sanding sealer helps with tear-out
and also makes the sheets slide across the table more smoothly.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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On 2/11/2014 1:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape
down over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood,
that might splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the
tape, unless you were very careful with the direction that you pull
it, you might do more harm.


It only takes one time to learn the lesson on that! :-)

I worked with some pre-finished birch plywood from a local supplier for
the first time on a recent project. I was amazed at how the finish
prevented most tear-out. Ever since then, I have started to put most of
the layers of finish on plywood before cutting (or right after rough
sizing). Not only does it cut down on tear-out, but it's so much easier
to finish those larger sheets. Then you're left with minor sanding and
the final coat on the finished project.

If you don't want to go into too many finish steps on the plywood, I
have found that even a coat or two of sanding sealer helps with tear-out
and also makes the sheets slide across the table more smoothly.


it also wears out the cutter quicker. Sanding sealer probably less than
a poly. But I agree, pre-finishing would be easier on large ply
panels... . Tough to match up face frames though. Much easier when you
are working from the same mix, not further down in the can..

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On 2/11/14, 1:35 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/11/2014 1:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape
down over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood,
that might splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the
tape, unless you were very careful with the direction that you pull
it, you might do more harm.


It only takes one time to learn the lesson on that! :-)

I worked with some pre-finished birch plywood from a local supplier for
the first time on a recent project. I was amazed at how the finish
prevented most tear-out. Ever since then, I have started to put most of
the layers of finish on plywood before cutting (or right after rough
sizing). Not only does it cut down on tear-out, but it's so much easier
to finish those larger sheets. Then you're left with minor sanding and
the final coat on the finished project.

If you don't want to go into too many finish steps on the plywood, I
have found that even a coat or two of sanding sealer helps with tear-out
and also makes the sheets slide across the table more smoothly.


it also wears out the cutter quicker. Sanding sealer probably less than
a poly.


Do you have a source for this information?
I find it hard to believe that any difference would be noticeable at
all, if true.


But I agree, pre-finishing would be easier on large ply
panels... . Tough to match up face frames though. Much easier when you
are working from the same mix, not further down in the can..


I don't know anyone who makes their face frames out of plywood. :-)


--

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"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

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On 2/11/2014 12:43 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message


Looooooong ago I swapped blades when going from ripping
to cross cutting.


Me too. It was a real nuisance so i bought another saw
________________

I'm mostly replying here to reassure Mike that, if his
saw is set up properly, he is going to be very very happy
with this new blade for most everything that he is going
to cut on his TS for a very long time.


I too am certain he will.



LOL, Now that would mane sense with a rip on one!
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On 2/11/2014 3:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 1:35 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/11/2014 1:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape
down over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood,
that might splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the
tape, unless you were very careful with the direction that you pull
it, you might do more harm.

It only takes one time to learn the lesson on that! :-)

I worked with some pre-finished birch plywood from a local supplier for
the first time on a recent project. I was amazed at how the finish
prevented most tear-out. Ever since then, I have started to put most of
the layers of finish on plywood before cutting (or right after rough
sizing). Not only does it cut down on tear-out, but it's so much easier
to finish those larger sheets. Then you're left with minor sanding and
the final coat on the finished project.

If you don't want to go into too many finish steps on the plywood, I
have found that even a coat or two of sanding sealer helps with tear-out
and also makes the sheets slide across the table more smoothly.


it also wears out the cutter quicker. Sanding sealer probably less than
a poly.


Do you have a source for this information?
I find it hard to believe that any difference would be noticeable at
all, if true.



Well cutting anything extra takes it's toll. ;~) But I agree, the
benefit probably by far out weighs the disadvantages.




But I agree, pre-finishing would be easier on large ply
panels... . Tough to match up face frames though. Much easier when you
are working from the same mix, not further down in the can..


I don't know anyone who makes their face frames out of plywood. :-)


Back in the 60's and 70's most new homes built-in cabinets had plywood
face frames. Done right the doors and drawer fronts were made from the
pieces cut out form the drawer and door openings. Add moldings and
those blanks became trimmed out doors just a little bigger than the
openings. There was a lot of plunge cutting going on. Not the best way
to do things but many many kitchen and bathroom cabinets were built this
way.







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On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:13:17 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
My trick is to raise my blade about 1/8" above the table surface and
make my cut. I then raise the blade to make the complete cut and pass
the work through again. I only do this when cross cutting plywood.


So, essentially you're jury rigging your own scoring blade. Simple but
effective trick. That's a good idea. I'll have to give it a try.
Thanks.
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On 2/11/2014 3:24 PM, Leon wrote:

Back in the 60's and 70's most new homes built-in cabinets had plywood
face frames. Done right the doors and drawer fronts were made from the
pieces cut out form the drawer and door openings. Add moldings and
those blanks became trimmed out doors just a little bigger than the
openings. There was a lot of plunge cutting going on. Not the best way
to do things but many many kitchen and bathroom cabinets were built this
way.



All built-in, and, in the case of base cabinets, most with 2x4 frames to
attach the faceframes to the walls.

Quick, cheap, and surprising enough, lasting longer than many of the
cabinets put in million dollar homes I routinely see, and am hired to
fix, today.

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On 2/11/14, 3:24 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/11/2014 3:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 1:35 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/11/2014 1:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape
down over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood,
that might splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the
tape, unless you were very careful with the direction that you pull
it, you might do more harm.

It only takes one time to learn the lesson on that! :-)

I worked with some pre-finished birch plywood from a local supplier for
the first time on a recent project. I was amazed at how the finish
prevented most tear-out. Ever since then, I have started to put
most of
the layers of finish on plywood before cutting (or right after rough
sizing). Not only does it cut down on tear-out, but it's so much
easier
to finish those larger sheets. Then you're left with minor sanding and
the final coat on the finished project.

If you don't want to go into too many finish steps on the plywood, I
have found that even a coat or two of sanding sealer helps with
tear-out
and also makes the sheets slide across the table more smoothly.


it also wears out the cutter quicker. Sanding sealer probably less than
a poly.


Do you have a source for this information?
I find it hard to believe that any difference would be noticeable at
all, if true.



Well cutting anything extra takes it's toll. ;~) But I agree, the
benefit probably by far out weighs the disadvantages.




But I agree, pre-finishing would be easier on large ply
panels... . Tough to match up face frames though. Much easier when you
are working from the same mix, not further down in the can..


I don't know anyone who makes their face frames out of plywood. :-)


Back in the 60's and 70's most new homes built-in cabinets had plywood
face frames. Done right the doors and drawer fronts were made from the
pieces cut out form the drawer and door openings. Add moldings and
those blanks became trimmed out doors just a little bigger than the
openings. There was a lot of plunge cutting going on. Not the best way
to do things but many many kitchen and bathroom cabinets were built this
way.


You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-)
I'm quite certain, however, that this is not done today.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

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On 2/11/2014 7:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 3:24 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/11/2014 3:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 1:35 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/11/2014 1:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/14, 12:38 PM, Leon wrote:
One other method that I used to use was lay a strip of masking tape
down over the line to be cut. The tapes helps to hold the wood,
that might splinter, in place. The problem I had was removing the
tape, unless you were very careful with the direction that you pull
it, you might do more harm.

It only takes one time to learn the lesson on that! :-)

I worked with some pre-finished birch plywood from a local supplier
for
the first time on a recent project. I was amazed at how the finish
prevented most tear-out. Ever since then, I have started to put
most of
the layers of finish on plywood before cutting (or right after rough
sizing). Not only does it cut down on tear-out, but it's so much
easier
to finish those larger sheets. Then you're left with minor sanding
and
the final coat on the finished project.

If you don't want to go into too many finish steps on the plywood, I
have found that even a coat or two of sanding sealer helps with
tear-out
and also makes the sheets slide across the table more smoothly.


it also wears out the cutter quicker. Sanding sealer probably less than
a poly.

Do you have a source for this information?
I find it hard to believe that any difference would be noticeable at
all, if true.



Well cutting anything extra takes it's toll. ;~) But I agree, the
benefit probably by far out weighs the disadvantages.




But I agree, pre-finishing would be easier on large ply
panels... . Tough to match up face frames though. Much easier when you
are working from the same mix, not further down in the can..


I don't know anyone who makes their face frames out of plywood. :-)


Back in the 60's and 70's most new homes built-in cabinets had plywood
face frames. Done right the doors and drawer fronts were made from the
pieces cut out form the drawer and door openings. Add moldings and
those blanks became trimmed out doors just a little bigger than the
openings. There was a lot of plunge cutting going on. Not the best way
to do things but many many kitchen and bathroom cabinets were built this
way.


You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-)
I'm quite certain, however, that this is not done today.



Hard to say if it is still being done, prefab cabinets are probably more
cost effective labor wise. A local builder in Houston, up until
relatively recently, was still using this method, probably 10 years ago.
It was pretty much an exclusive offered by that builder. It was oddly
enough an option over prefab cabinets. Perry Homes.


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On 2/11/2014 6:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in :

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:13:17 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
My trick is to raise my blade about 1/8" above the table surface and
make my cut. I then raise the blade to make the complete cut and pass
the work through again. I only do this when cross cutting plywood.


So, essentially you're jury rigging your own scoring blade. Simple but
effective trick. That's a good idea. I'll have to give it a try.
Thanks.


It might work better than a scoring blade. The score will be the exact
width of the final cut, and there's nothing extra to adjust. It will
work if cutting dados or just making regular cuts.


Perhaps but many of the scoring blades are actually two thin kerf blades
separated by shims. And some can be spaced far enough apart to work
well when cutting dados. But not quite as necessary since the dados are
relatively shallow cuts to begin with.

Regardless, what I do works well for the reason you mentioned.

Many of the European built TS's that are offered in the US offer the
scoring blade option and many offer videos of how these blades are
adjusted on their web sites. I was looking closely at a Laguna TS with
the scoring blade last year when shopping for a new cabinet saw. I
opted for the industrial SawStop and am very happy today with my choice.





I've used masking tape to reduce tear out, but that's about all it does:
reduce it. On a surface like Melamine, any little bit of tear out shows
up.

Thanks for the tip, Leon. I will put it to good use with difficult
materials.


Obliviously a sharp blade is an advantage but try it out on some scraps
and compare the results by making the scored cut and then completing the
cut vs simply making the cut. There is relatively no advantage to doing
this when ripping.






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On 2/11/2014 7:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-)
I'm quite certain, however, that this is not done today.


Probably regional, but around here 95% of the cabinets in 'builder
built' spec/custom homes (excluding most large scale, National, tract
home builders who use prefab boxes) are still 'built-in place', but not
in the same manner as the old days, when union carpenters were still
aplenty.

Nailed together, solid wood faceframes, plywood side panels and floors,
backless, and attached straight to the drywall, is prevalent today.

(in the good old days, the wall behind the cabinets was often tongue and
groove lumber, or 3/4" plywood -- and in some cases where the room was
paneled, paneling.)

Done properly and by a skilled cabinetmaker, particularly in old
construction and in restoration work, still a good way to maximize space
and get a custom fit.

Unfortunately, today it is rarely done properly, even in million dollar
homes in many areas ... mostly due to a lack of unskilled, unsupervised
labor, who take every shortcut imaginable because they have no cultural
basis for pride in their work, or skin in the game.

Add to that the fact that construction lumber nowadays is plantation
grown, new growth, varying widely in moisture content despite being kiln
dried, and therefore unstable, structures are subject to movement due to
dimensional instability in the months/years to come. Meaning nothing
attached stays square and in place.

I am routinely called upon to fix kitchen and bath cabinet doors,
drawers, trim, crown, and reattach intermediate stiles, on $1m+ homes
that are less than ten years old.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg ... it is hard to believe some
of the framing, electrical and plumbing crap we uncover when doing a
remodel on homes less than twenty years old these days.

In short, it is almost unbelievable the prevalence of poorly built
residences in even the high dollar, prestigious neighborhoods in some
regions these days.


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On 2/12/14, 11:49 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/11/2014 7:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

You just described my kitchen, unfortunately. :-) I'm quite
certain, however, that this is not done today.


Probably regional, but around here 95% of the cabinets in 'builder
built' spec/custom homes (excluding most large scale, National, tract
home builders who use prefab boxes) are still 'built-in place', but
not in the same manner as the old days, when union carpenters were
still aplenty.

Nailed together, solid wood faceframes, plywood side panels and
floors, backless, and attached straight to the drywall, is prevalent
today.

(in the good old days, the wall behind the cabinets was often tongue
and groove lumber, or 3/4" plywood -- and in some cases where the
room was paneled, paneling.)

Done properly and by a skilled cabinetmaker, particularly in old
construction and in restoration work, still a good way to maximize
space and get a custom fit.

Unfortunately, today it is rarely done properly, even in million
dollar homes in many areas ... mostly due to a lack of unskilled,
unsupervised labor, who take every shortcut imaginable because they
have no cultural basis for pride in their work, or skin in the game.

Add to that the fact that construction lumber nowadays is plantation
grown, new growth, varying widely in moisture content despite being
kiln dried, and therefore unstable, structures are subject to
movement due to dimensional instability in the months/years to come.
Meaning nothing attached stays square and in place.

I am routinely called upon to fix kitchen and bath cabinet doors,
drawers, trim, crown, and reattach intermediate stiles, on $1m+ homes
that are less than ten years old.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg ... it is hard to believe
some of the framing, electrical and plumbing crap we uncover when
doing a remodel on homes less than twenty years old these days.

In short, it is almost unbelievable the prevalence of poorly built
residences in even the high dollar, prestigious neighborhoods in some
regions these days.


The stories are too long and plentiful. If we ever meet in person, I'll
share some of the many experiences I've had fixing those mistakes in the
half-million+ dollar McMansions around here.



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"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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--
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Re plywood faceframes- my SIL made cabinets for a relative. They were painted with oil base that laid down very well. I was skeptical when he told me he was going to make the ff's out of ply. He sanded all exposed edges carefully. I don't know how he came up with such void free plywood but I was very impressed with the finish...no sign of the layers. It looks just like painted mdf or solid wood. It is one of those things I would not believe if I had not seen it for myself. I still wouldn't do it that way but it worked for him.
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