I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few, power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com

Jeff Mazur wrote in
:

*snip*


So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only
use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there
any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Ooh, we get to spend someone else's money on our wishlist!

A multi-tool like the Fein Multimaster or clones is worth the investment.
Harbor Freight has one they've been selling for less than $20 at times,
which is a fantastic place to start. I like the Bosch version as its
quiet with little vibration on the tool body.

There's an old tool that's well worth having in the shop: A classic
"school" style pencil sharpener. I think the one I bought a few years
ago was an X-acto L, a clone of the "Boston L", if I remember right.
When the pencil breaks, it takes less than 10 seconds to sharpen. Cost
was about $20.

The track saws look really nice. It looks like all you do is make your
marks, position the track and make the cut. Better than guide rails,
which require making a mark, offsetting the guide from the mark to match
your saw, then making your cut. (The guide rails do work well, though.)

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building
things from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or
very few, power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in
old-timey woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to
be clear, I'm no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and
tradition in the pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I
think they're great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom
I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53
it's very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again


Hand tools can be a hobby in and of themselves. One good way to get
started is by buying something that's not a tool at all: DVDs of the
Woodwright's Shop. (You might get the newer seasons on your PBS station)
Roy Underhill uses hand or human powered tools exclusively, and it's
sometimes amazing to watch as this tree that was standing last year gets
turned into something.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 12/5/2013 6:13 AM, Jeff Mazur wrote:

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few, power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I started out that way as a
youngster, but the realities of making a living with hand tools alone is
harsh in today's world.

There are countless excellent resources available these days on the
Internet.

Shannon's is a good place to start, but one will lead you to another:

http://www.handtoolschool.net/

And Chris Schwartz one of the acknowledged masters of blending hand work
and modern methods:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wo...s-schwarz-blog

Google+ is also an excellent place to look for hand tool aficionados and
pick up tips:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communit...32106925979719

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communit...61433595510170


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few, power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

My perspective: Do the projects you like to do and get the tools you
need for what you like to do. If you would like to build a picnic
table, you could easily get by with a GOOD hand saw, square, good
hammer and a plan. If you need a drill, get a good one.

If you want to make toy chests, you may need a power saw or a sander.
If you find you really need a certain tool, get the best you can
afford, but don't buy a shop full of tools just because they are neat
and pretty. I got by on just hand tools for many years, then
accumulated a grinder, power drill(s) and a router. I bought a cheap
Sears router and hated it for several years until I replaced it. I
bought a cheap grinder and regretted it.

As your horizons expand and you find you like woodworking you will
gradually acquire the right tools for what you like to do.

--
 GW Ross 

 How come there's only one Monopolies 
 Commission? 

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 04:13:16 -0800, Jeff Mazur wrote:

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

I read the other responses to your query before posting this. You got
some good suggestions and some not so good. I'd stay away from that $20
HF multi-tool - while some have made it work, a lot of users have
complained that the blades work loose - they did for me.

OTOH, the latest HF 12" sliding miter saw got great reviews. I bought
one because of those reviews and so far I agree with them.

Something that's come along in the last few years are those digital angle
gauges. Get one - worth its weight in gold.

As far as new power tools go, nothing that's a "must have" comes to
mind. I will say that after buying a thickness sander (Jet 10/20) it
certainly made avoiding tearout easy.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

Jeff Mazur wrote in
:

*snip*


So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only
use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there
any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?


This message was supposed to get posted earlier, but it was never sent.
Please excuse any redundancy it has with the messages others have
already sent.

One person's "must have" is another person's "paper weight". Maybe
decide on a big goal, then maybe consider a related smaller one--and
start collecting tools for that. That way, at least you know why you are
buying things. I have observed that it's much, much cheaper to collect
*books* about tools, than the actual articles (a little pun there).
It's easier to keep them sharpened and free of rust too! : )

Do you have a suitable stationary workbench? If not, there are a couple
of good book on workbenches (not that you "have to" read one). Your
approach may vary depending on whether you wish to spend $200, $2000, or
$15,000 to spend to pursue woodworking. I guess a "SawStop PCS" starts
you off near $4000 once you start to accessorize. Suggest you maybe
make a list before you buy very much so you can prioritize. Do you
have a 240V outlet at your convenience? If not, you may wish to consider
putting one in. Maybe not. There are many who don't think it makes sense
to buy a low voltage Sawstop.

Bill

On 12/5/2013 1:41 PM, Bill wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote in
:

*snip*


So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only
use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there
any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?


This message was supposed to get posted earlier, but it was never sent.
Please excuse any redundancy it has with the messages others have
already sent.

One person's "must have" is another person's "paper weight". Maybe
decide on a big goal, then maybe consider a related smaller one--and
start collecting tools for that. That way, at least you know why you are
buying things. I have observed that it's much, much cheaper to collect
*books* about tools, than the actual articles (a little pun there). It's
easier to keep them sharpened and free of rust too! : )

Do you have a suitable stationary workbench? If not, there are a couple
of good book on workbenches (not that you "have to" read one). Your
approach may vary depending on whether you wish to spend $200, $2000, or
$15,000 to spend to pursue woodworking. I guess a "SawStop PCS" starts
you off near $4000 once you start to accessorize. Suggest you maybe
make a list before you buy very much so you can prioritize. Do you
have a 240V outlet at your convenience? If not, you may wish to consider
putting one in. Maybe not. There are many who don't think it makes sense
to buy a low voltage Sawstop.

Bill


I agree with the above, before you buy tool one decide what projects you
are going to be doing, then look at the tools to do that project.

If you are going to be doing finishing work in a house or such then a
good powered miter saw should be your first purchase.

If your projects are fancy little decorative flowers or toys, you would
be better off making your first tool purchase a good jigsaw or bandsaw,
and a drill press.

If you are making picture frames you will need a good table saw, with an
angle miter gauge and a router/table with a good slot cutter bit.

If you plan to built yard sheds or houses, a good skil saw and a nail
gun or hammer would be more appropriate.

Larry Blanchard wrote:


I read the other responses to your query before posting this. You got
some good suggestions and some not so good. I'd stay away from that
$20 HF multi-tool - while some have made it work, a lot of users have
complained that the blades work loose - they did for me.


I think that was the early version of the tool Larry. Most people I've
heard speak about them more recently have said that problem has been
resolved. I own the cheap on and I don't have that problem at all, and mine
is only a few months old.


OTOH, the latest HF 12" sliding miter saw got great reviews. I bought
one because of those reviews and so far I agree with them.

I'll echo that. I am completely satisfied with mine. I had the 10" model
initially and it was very good as well, but when the 12" model went on sale
only a couple of weeks after I bought my 10", I took the 10" back against
the 12". No regrets at all.


--

-Mike-

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:51:35 -0600, Leon wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com

....and now back the regularly scheduled show. ;-)

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TeackSaw. The competition is pretty closely
priced to the FT. Some tools may approach 2x but even their routers
aren't 2x a good quality tool.

On 05 Dec 2013 14:11:28 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote in
:

*snip*


So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only
use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there
any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Ooh, we get to spend someone else's money on our wishlist!

A multi-tool like the Fein Multimaster or clones is worth the investment.
Harbor Freight has one they've been selling for less than $20 at times,
which is a fantastic place to start. I like the Bosch version as its
quiet with little vibration on the tool body.

I have the Bosch 12V cordless. It's a great tool for the few times
it's needed. I don't use it as a "woodworking" tool, though. It's
more of a construction tool.

There's an old tool that's well worth having in the shop: A classic
"school" style pencil sharpener. I think the one I bought a few years
ago was an X-acto L, a clone of the "Boston L", if I remember right.
When the pencil breaks, it takes less than 10 seconds to sharpen. Cost
was about $20.

I use cheap .7mm mechanical pencils. I buy bags of them for ~$.10
each. I have them scattered everywhere so there's always one within
sight, if not reach. ;-)

The track saws look really nice. It looks like all you do is make your
marks, position the track and make the cut. Better than guide rails,
which require making a mark, offsetting the guide from the mark to match
your saw, then making your cut. (The guide rails do work well, though.)

I used guide rails for some time. There is no comparison. Track-saws
are flawless.

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building
things from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or
very few, power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in
old-timey woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to
be clear, I'm no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and
tradition in the pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I
think they're great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom
I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53
it's very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again


Hand tools can be a hobby in and of themselves. One good way to get
started is by buying something that's not a tool at all: DVDs of the
Woodwright's Shop. (You might get the newer seasons on your PBS station)
Roy Underhill uses hand or human powered tools exclusively, and it's
sometimes amazing to watch as this tree that was standing last year gets
turned into something.

A skill I would never have the patience to learn. I'd rather make a
cake than play with the ingredients. ;-)

wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:51:35 -0600, Leon wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again
If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com
...and now back the regularly scheduled show. ;-)

: )


BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TeackSaw. The competition is pretty closely
priced to the FT. Some tools may approach 2x but even their routers
aren't 2x a good quality tool.

On 12/5/2013 7:13 AM, Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few, power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again


So first, welcome...

Second you will find the saw stop to be an excellent saw for you and
your son and save you from the most dangerous accident of digit removal..
It will not protect from incorrect safety methods and poor fundamentals,
so kickback is still a danger.

Do buy the saw stop, well worth the money if it ever saves your fingers..



I love doing stuff by hand. I have a full power shop, yet sometimes I
want quiet. Or I find that I can do something by hand faster than
jigging up to make a cut.. or it's too dangerous and a handtool
eliminates the danger.

If you start with handtools, you will work slower, but learn more.
You'll learn the grain direction matters big time.

You will find many videos that show you how to on the web....
Please don't call it old timey, that guy is entertaining or trying to
be, but I'm not sure of his skills.
He has a lot of nice moulding planes, (I'm jealous) but it's not old
timey...

I think some of the best lessons of handtools are Roy Underhill. Roy
teaches quickly how to, you won't be taken all the way through, but you
will learn a lot. Many of his seasons are still available online, so
before you spend on the series from pop wood, just go learn by watching
them online.

He has taught me things I thought I knew and didn't have to learn..
Certainly there were faster ways of getting the wood roughed out, and he
knows how to do it quickly and efficiently.

Add power tools as you need them...
I goto garage sales weekly with the wife. I look for tools (old tools
mostly) and she looks for her things. I have found some great bargains.


Just remember nothing is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, and fixing
them is part of the fun and challenge.


--
Jeff

OK, this is just CRAZY - guys, I can't thank you enough for the flood of replies! I remarked to my son the other day that I noticed that woodworking guys seem to be almost without exception some of the nicest people around, and you all bear that out with your attention and help.

I will craft a proper reply and commentary regarding this wealth of knowledge - in the morning, when I'm fresh. Again, thanks for this grand and helpful welcome, it's truly appreciated.

Jeff M.

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 19:38:16 -0500, wrote:

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TrackSaw.

I"d consider the Domino as the most useful tool. While the tracksaw is
certainly useful, there's several competitors out there to it. The
Domino is pretty much unique in the home market when it comes to loose
tenons. Not much else out there that is as easy or fast to use.

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:14:46 -0500, woodchucker
Just remember nothing is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, and fixing
them is part of the fun and challenge.

For me the biggest challenge is turning those mistakes into a design
feature.

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:30:13 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 19:38:16 -0500, wrote:

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TrackSaw.

I"d consider the Domino as the most useful tool. While the tracksaw is
certainly useful, there's several competitors out there to it. The
Domino is pretty much unique in the home market when it comes to loose
tenons. Not much else out there that is as easy or fast to use.

Sure but I didn't use Domino as an example _because_ there isn't any
direct competition (there are several jigs). Yet. It's hard to
compare the price of something to, um,??? ;-)

But you have a point, I did say the TrackSaw was the most useful. I
still think it is but I'm certainly not going to argue that the Domino
isn't right there. (You just hit the third and final FesteringTool in
my toybox .

On 12/5/2013 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:51:35 -0600, Leon wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com

...and now back the regularly scheduled show. ;-)

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TeackSaw. The competition is pretty closely
priced to the FT. Some tools may approach 2x but even their routers
aren't 2x a good quality tool.



Have you not seen the large Festool Router that is over $800.? ;~)

On 12/5/2013 9:30 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 19:38:16 -0500, wrote:

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TrackSaw.

I"d consider the Domino as the most useful tool. While the tracksaw is
certainly useful, there's several competitors out there to it. The
Domino is pretty much unique in the home market when it comes to loose
tenons. Not much else out there that is as easy or fast to use.



I think my most surprisingly cool Festool tool is my T15-3 cordless
drill. I have not yet stalled it even driving 5/16"x 4" lag screws. I
have two impact drivers, Makita and Bosch which I have not used since
getting the Festool drill two years ago.

The track saw is great for finish cuts in plywood, the sanders are clean
and basically dustless, and of coarse my Domino. I have cut well in
excess of 10,000 mortises with it.

"Jeff Mazur" wrote:

OK, this is just CRAZY - guys, I can't thank you enough for the
flood of replies! I remarked to my son the other day that I noticed
that woodworking guys seem to be almost without exception some of
the nicest people around, and you all bear that out with your
attention and help.

I will craft a proper reply and commentary regarding this wealth of
knowledge - in the morning, when I'm fresh. Again, thanks for this
grand and helpful welcome, it's truly appreciated.

------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not difficult to invest a small fortune, even rights to your
first borne,
and still not have the right tools for the job.

So what do you want to do?

A table saw with a good fence, emphasis on GOOD, is a dream.

These days that means SawStop.

Add an 8" stacked dado set and a set of quality carbide set of blades
(24T rip, 50T combo & 80T plywood finish) and you are good to go.

Freud has product.

Add some sheets of 9 ply (1/2") & a 13 ply (3/4") 60" x 60" Birch
plywood to make jigs.

The above will keep you out of trouble for at least a year.

Add a router kit with a fixed and a plunge base along with bits as
you need them.

P/C 690 used to be the king of routers but their day is long gone.

I'd look at Milwaukee, others may have a better suggestion.

Add a couple of 6" ROS, I like Bosch, a multitool (Mine is a Fein) and
a couple of battery operated hand drills.

I had 18VDC DeWalt, but that was a long time ago.

Throw in a Bosch jig saw, mine is a 1587 and it's long in the
tooth, but it gets the job done.

Don't forget the band saw, but only after the need is established.

And finally the most important tool in the shop, the THINKING chair.

If you still have money in the piggy bank, come on back and we will
help you spend itG.

Have fun.

Lew

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:47:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
I think my most surprisingly cool Festool tool is my T15-3 cordless
drill. I have not yet stalled it even driving 5/16"x 4" lag screws. I
have two impact drivers, Makita and Bosch which I have not used since
getting the Festool drill two years ago.

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.

Jeff Mazur wrote:
OK, this is just CRAZY - guys, I can't thank you enough for the flood of
replies! I remarked to my son the other day that I noticed that
woodworking guys seem to be almost without exception some of the nicest
people around, and you all bear that out with your attention and help.

Naahh ... we're crotchety old curmudgeons who shoot at each other at the
drop of a #5 Bailey. The survivors are ones with the big iron they can hide
behind.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

OK, so, again, THANKS!

Trying to address the many points, bear with me...

Regarding Festool, I am of two minds: they are surely built by people who think about design care about quality. I always try to invest in quality. Having said that...as with golf, I'll wait for the finest equipment until my skills are honed better.

SawStop is a given - that's not just quality, that's safety. They're lots of money - I have a grand total of about $1400 recent dollars (plus about $400 "old dollars" - spent years ago) invested right now, so the cost of a SawStop looms large. I'm being very thrifty wherever possible, got two daughters in the Ivy League so I'm hemorrhaging money. It IS a higher priority than most items, though, because of safety AND because my second-hand ShopSmith leaves something to be desired for sawing. I must say that since I got that nice Diablo 24T blade it cuts like a champ. Table stinks though, too high and too small.

Multitool - CHECK. Got a Dremel a year or two ago, along with a Rotozip, nice tools, very handy.

Pencil Sharpener - got a couple mechanical pencils instead, they make a consistently fine line which I like. And a box of kids chalk for face planing marks, etc.

Will check out Roy Underhill's vids, thanks. Seems a good idea. I love quality TV Will check the other sources of info, thanks for the others!

Regarding philosophy (such as the excellent advice to buy as I need), my philosophy so far has been to buy when needed OR when a bargain presents itself. e.g. Paid $150 for my Ridgid 13" planer, $500 for my ShopSmith Mark V 510 AND DC3300 dust collector, $105 for my Craftsman 2HP 6" jointer. I loves me a deal

Sliding Miter - CHECK - another used bargain on eBay, 12" dual sliding DeWalt for $260 with decent blade.

Digital angle gauge sounds truly worthwhile, will check it out. Sounds like an inexpensive way to make life a lot easier.

I'm a big proponent of learning, so I picked up a couple of books. By the way, there is a book that is rapidly becoming my woodworking bible, it's old, but still available, and fabulous even though somewhat dated: Furniture and Cabinet Making, by John Feirer, 1983. Covers a vast amount of material, and offers some clever techniques. Highly recommend it.

Good point about shop power - that's one other reason I got the ShopSmith - it doesn't pop my wimpy 110V 15A breakers. High on my list, won't be cheap though - I can do most of the wiring, but the subpanel work will still be pricy.

Router - have an old Craftsman, works, runs strong, need a plunge-y one and a table, though. Good point.

Jig saw - CHECK+CHECK - inherited both a saber saw and scroll saw from father in law, God rest his soul.

@MikeMarlow: with you on HF, they can offer some good stuff, got a very nice tile saw for a song there once. Am wary of their quality in general, though.

Meaning to check out the Domino. Seems like a game-changer. Track-saw will have to wait but is a GREAT idea - I can make-do with a clamped guide edge for the time being. Track-saw would be a MUST have for a contractor though, agreed.

@Lew: I covered the thinking chair FIRST lol!

Workbench need: acknowledged. Right now I'm using a couple 3/4" ply tables on sawhorses with cross support using those dandy table-building hangers from Rockler. Planning to build a couple nicer ones with under-table storage that do double-duty as infeed-outfeed tables, plus a rolling tool cart to keep the always-needed stuff close at hand.

As a footnote, I have seen LOTS of back-and-forth about ShopSmith tools, so I'm going to go on the record here to (hopefully) avoid a repeat of some of the ugly threads I've witnessed elsewhe

1) YES, SS is a compromise tool in both power and configuration. Built for those without a lot of space.
2) NOT a great value when purchased new (unless you don't much space.)
3) VERY good value when purchased cheaply - I got a starter table saw, plus a lathe if I want to try turning, plus a drill press, borer and sander.
4) WELL built, in the USA.
5) Pricy, pricy, PRICY accessories.

In summary, can't say I love it, but am grateful I found one at a good price when I did. I may be the first SS owner to ever NOT gush about the darn thing, and am proud of that fact

And I'm grateful to you guys for being welcoming and helpful. Will try to offer what I can as well.

JM

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:42:05 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:51:35 -0600, Leon wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com

...and now back the regularly scheduled show. ;-)

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TeackSaw. The competition is pretty closely
priced to the FT. Some tools may approach 2x but even their routers
aren't 2x a good quality tool.



Have you not seen the large Festool Router that is over $800.? ;~)

OK, but I'm not a fan of handheld tools that will take me for a ride.
;-) 3+HP routers belong in tables, which is a waste of a
FesteringTool, IMO. The money is better spent on a motor and lift.

The 1400 is $500 and the 1100 is $400. You can't get anything close
for half the price. I like my PC691, too, but it's not even close.

On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:47:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
I think my most surprisingly cool Festool tool is my T15-3 cordless
drill. I have not yet stalled it even driving 5/16"x 4" lag screws. I
have two impact drivers, Makita and Bosch which I have not used since
getting the Festool drill two years ago.

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.



Oh Nooooooooo!

Seriousely the drills are amazingly strong.

On 12/5/2013 8:21 PM, Jeff Mazur wrote:
OK, this is just CRAZY - guys, I can't thank you enough for the flood of replies! I remarked to my son the other day that I noticed that woodworking guys seem to be almost without exception some of the nicest people around, and you all bear that out with your attention and help.

I will craft a proper reply and commentary regarding this wealth of knowledge - in the morning, when I'm fresh. Again, thanks for this grand and helpful welcome, it's truly appreciated.

Jeff M.



Well welcome aboard!

On 12/6/2013 7:12 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:42:05 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:51:35 -0600, Leon wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com

...and now back the regularly scheduled show. ;-)

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TeackSaw. The competition is pretty closely
priced to the FT. Some tools may approach 2x but even their routers
aren't 2x a good quality tool.



Have you not seen the large Festool Router that is over $800.? ;~)

OK, but I'm not a fan of handheld tools that will take me for a ride.
;-) 3+HP routers belong in tables, which is a waste of a
FesteringTool, IMO. The money is better spent on a motor and lift.

The 1400 is $500 and the 1100 is $400. You can't get anything close
for half the price. I like my PC691, too, but it's not even close.


I think the huge honking Festool router would be more of an attraction
if I relied strictly on power hand tools.

I agree, I have two big routers, a Triton that replaced a huge Bosch
plunge router simply because the Bosch did not adjust easily in a router
table.

Quote "Good point about shop power - that's one other reason I got the
ShopSmith - it doesn't pop my wimpy 110V 15A breakers. High on my list,
won't be cheap though - I can do most of the wiring, but the subpanel
work will still be pricy." unQuote

This may be a partial do it your self job. In many places wiring, to be
done per government code, must be done under a Building Permit by a
license Electrician. I live in a rural county east of Raleigh and that
is the way it is here. I don't like the additional expense, BUT it is
for the protection of your family and future owners. While we may be
quite capable of doing the job, there are others who think they are.

Quote "Workbench need: acknowledged. Right now I'm using a couple 3/4"
ply tables on sawhorses with cross support using those dandy
table-building hangers from Rockler. Planning to build a couple nicer
ones with under-table storage that do double-duty as infeed-outfeed
tables, plus a rolling tool cart to keep the always-needed stuff close
at hand." unQuote

While there are those who will look down their noises at a movable bench
and say it is for amateurs, in reality is the best option for the DIY
shop. I have both my work bench and table saw on wheels. Since I am not
doing one operation for 8/7/52 weeks, it gives you a lot of flexibility.
While I did mine with the idea of using it as an outfeed table, its
biggest use is as a staging area when I am cutting a lot of pieces. (I
make my wife stretchers and picture frames and may have several dozen
pieces at a time.) Being mobile it can service the table saw, the drill
press or the router table. One non woodworking use is a sturdy mobile
platform for painting the ceiling, installing ceiling lights, and
changing light bulbs.

My work bench is made of 2 X 4 with all half lapped joints. The top is
1/2 inch plywood set into a half lapped 2X4 frame. There are four closed
cabinets at the ends and two large shelves. It is sturdy and is still
as strong to day as when I made it over 15 years ago.

On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, wrote:

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.

AAMOF ...

Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting of FIG is being planned as we
speak.

As you have seen from last years meeting:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink


Mandatory innoculation with the Medical Grade shellac thinner has been
scientifically determined to sufficiently mitigate the effects of FBD,
with a yearly booster mandatory.

It appears that this years Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting
will be between Christmas and New Years, more than likely 12/28-29th.

Any wRec'er who will be in the Houston area at that time is hereby
invited to attend.

Attendees getting their first shot are required to bring the appropriate
Medical Grade (Blanton's, etc) shellac thinner. (Mr Bridges, is
requested to provide his DD).

It is rumored that someone may even provide a Gumbo to soften the
effects of the inoculation ... ya never know.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Friday, December 6, 2013 10:04:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Quote "Good point about shop power - that's one other reason I got the

ShopSmith - it doesn't pop my wimpy 110V 15A breakers. High on my list,

won't be cheap though - I can do most of the wiring, but the subpanel

work will still be pricy." unQuote



This may be a partial do it your self job. In many places wiring, to be

done per government code, must be done under a Building Permit by a

license Electrician. I live in a rural county east of Raleigh and that

is the way it is here. I don't like the additional expense, BUT it is

for the protection of your family and future owners. While we may be

quite capable of doing the job, there are others who think they are.



Quote "Workbench need: acknowledged. Right now I'm using a couple 3/4"

ply tables on sawhorses with cross support using those dandy

table-building hangers from Rockler. Planning to build a couple nicer

ones with under-table storage that do double-duty as infeed-outfeed

tables, plus a rolling tool cart to keep the always-needed stuff close

at hand." unQuote



While there are those who will look down their noises at a movable bench

and say it is for amateurs, in reality is the best option for the DIY

shop. I have both my work bench and table saw on wheels. Since I am not

doing one operation for 8/7/52 weeks, it gives you a lot of flexibility.

While I did mine with the idea of using it as an outfeed table, its

biggest use is as a staging area when I am cutting a lot of pieces. (I

make my wife stretchers and picture frames and may have several dozen

pieces at a time.) Being mobile it can service the table saw, the drill

press or the router table. One non woodworking use is a sturdy mobile

platform for painting the ceiling, installing ceiling lights, and

changing light bulbs.



My work bench is made of 2 X 4 with all half lapped joints. The top is

1/2 inch plywood set into a half lapped 2X4 frame. There are four closed

cabinets at the ends and two large shelves. It is sturdy and is still

as strong to day as when I made it over 15 years ago.

I'm with you, Keith - the wiring I spoke of is simply runs from the subpanel box to outlets. I rewired my entire kitchen (open work, re-did walls and a couple windows in the process, so pretty easy,) after submitting plans approved by the township, and passed inspection with flying colors. An electrician friend taught me all the relevant techniques, codes, etc. and checked my work. But I leave the heavy lifting to the experts, rest assured. I like woodworking but don't want to have to build a new house

Would never look down my nose and anyone's bench or tools, everyone has different needs, preferences, etc. Hell, doing that would be like knocking another fellow's wife, not gentlemanly or kind at all. Me, I'm lucky - have a lot of room in my basement shop (24' x 32'), so I can be a little lavish in allocating bench and storage space, and will have a combination of some fixed benches along with a couple rollers.

On 12/6/2013 9:05 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, wrote:

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.

AAMOF ...

Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting of FIG is being planned as we
speak.

As you have seen from last years meeting:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink


Mandatory innoculation with the Medical Grade shellac thinner has been
scientifically determined to sufficiently mitigate the effects of FBD,
with a yearly booster mandatory.

Its Festool season! Get you free FBD shots.




It appears that this years Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting
will be between Christmas and New Years, more than likely 12/28-29th.

Any wRec'er who will be in the Houston area at that time is hereby
invited to attend.

Attendees getting their first shot are required to bring the appropriate
Medical Grade (Blanton's, etc) shellac thinner. (Mr Bridges, is
requested to provide his DD).

DD?

On 12/6/2013 10:36 AM, Jeff Mazur wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 10:04:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Quote "Good point about shop power - that's one other reason I got the

ShopSmith - it doesn't pop my wimpy 110V 15A breakers. High on my list,

won't be cheap though - I can do most of the wiring, but the subpanel

work will still be pricy." unQuote



This may be a partial do it your self job. In many places wiring, to be

done per government code, must be done under a Building Permit by a

license Electrician. I live in a rural county east of Raleigh and that

is the way it is here. I don't like the additional expense, BUT it is

for the protection of your family and future owners. While we may be

quite capable of doing the job, there are others who think they are.



Quote "Workbench need: acknowledged. Right now I'm using a couple 3/4"

ply tables on sawhorses with cross support using those dandy

table-building hangers from Rockler. Planning to build a couple nicer

ones with under-table storage that do double-duty as infeed-outfeed

tables, plus a rolling tool cart to keep the always-needed stuff close

at hand." unQuote



While there are those who will look down their noises at a movable bench

and say it is for amateurs, in reality is the best option for the DIY

shop. I have both my work bench and table saw on wheels. Since I am not

doing one operation for 8/7/52 weeks, it gives you a lot of flexibility.

While I did mine with the idea of using it as an outfeed table, its

biggest use is as a staging area when I am cutting a lot of pieces. (I

make my wife stretchers and picture frames and may have several dozen

pieces at a time.) Being mobile it can service the table saw, the drill

press or the router table. One non woodworking use is a sturdy mobile

platform for painting the ceiling, installing ceiling lights, and

changing light bulbs.



My work bench is made of 2 X 4 with all half lapped joints. The top is

1/2 inch plywood set into a half lapped 2X4 frame. There are four closed

cabinets at the ends and two large shelves. It is sturdy and is still

as strong to day as when I made it over 15 years ago.

I'm with you, Keith - the wiring I spoke of is simply runs from the subpanel box to outlets. I rewired my entire kitchen (open work, re-did walls and a couple windows in the process, so pretty easy,) after submitting plans approved by the township, and passed inspection with flying colors. An electrician friend taught me all the relevant techniques, codes, etc. and checked my work. But I leave the heavy lifting to the experts, rest assured. I like woodworking but don't want to have to build a new house

Would never look down my nose and anyone's bench or tools, everyone has different needs, preferences, etc. Hell, doing that would be like knocking another fellow's wife, not gentlemanly or kind at all. Me, I'm lucky - have a lot of room in my basement shop (24' x 32'), so I can be a little lavish in allocating bench and storage space, and will have a combination of some fixed benches along with a couple rollers.



FWIW running shop equipment on 220 volt, especially a table saw, will
99.999999999999999% remove the chances of stalling the motor. Even with
a good blade fully raised and buried in Ipe. Ipe is 2.5 times harder
than oak. 3HP is plenty unless you run the saw 24/7

On 12/6/2013 11:17 AM, Leon wrote:

DD?

Designated Driver.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/6/2013 1:13 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/6/2013 11:17 AM, Leon wrote:

DD?

Designated Driver.



I thought she was the decoy. ;~)

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 08:20:22 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/6/2013 7:12 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:42:05 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/5/2013 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 07:51:35 -0600, Leon wrote:

Jeff Mazur wrote:
I've just started into woodworking as a result of being fed up with
dealing with contractors doing so-so work in my home for a lot of money.

My first project is putting up craftsman style moldings in our upstairs
bath. I've chosen to mill my own wood from rough-sawn pieces, which
yielded wood savings enough to pay for my used Ridgid lunchbox thickness
planer and my used Craftsman 6-1/8" jointer. This has turned out to be a
good beginner project as I am learning something I believe is pretty fundamental.

So, first a question: I'm finding that used power tools are a pretty
great deal, especially hobbyist-grade, since so many hobbyists only use
them lightly, or even abandon the hobby before long. Are there any
modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace that are
must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as a good
example, IMO. Others?

Second question: I have a secondary interest, beyond just building things
from wood, in building wooden things by hand - using no, or very few,
power tools. Does anyone in the group with experience in old-timey
woodworking such as this have thoughts or advice? Just to be clear, I'm
no reactionary - my interest is in the charm and tradition in the
pursuit, not because I think power tools are evil - I think they're
great. But I'm drawn to this, as is my son, with whom I'm taking up this hobby.

Thanks for your attention, I'm having fun with this so far. At 53 it's
very cool to learn new things and feel like a kid again

If you want cutting edge technology and quality, SawStop is at the top of
the list and so is Festool brand power tools. Festool is pricey, 2-3 times
more expensive than well known quality tools but very well thought out and
the pieces integrate well with each other. Festool power tools could
actually replace or eliminate the need for larger stationary power tools.
Festoolusa.com

...and now back the regularly scheduled show. ;-)

BTW, I have a few FessteringTools, too. They're certainly more
expensive but I don't buy the 2-3x. Probably the most useful
FesteringTool is the TeackSaw. The competition is pretty closely
priced to the FT. Some tools may approach 2x but even their routers
aren't 2x a good quality tool.



Have you not seen the large Festool Router that is over $800.? ;~)

OK, but I'm not a fan of handheld tools that will take me for a ride.
;-) 3+HP routers belong in tables, which is a waste of a
FesteringTool, IMO. The money is better spent on a motor and lift.

The 1400 is $500 and the 1100 is $400. You can't get anything close
for half the price. I like my PC691, too, but it's not even close.


I think the huge honking Festool router would be more of an attraction
if I relied strictly on power hand tools.

I was just at the Woodcraft in Alpharetta, Ga. and picked one up.
There is no way I'd feel safe wielding that thing around. Might just
as well pick up the Unisaur! ;-)

I agree, I have two big routers, a Triton that replaced a huge Bosch
plunge router simply because the Bosch did not adjust easily in a router
table.

I have an old (hmm, must be 25YO by now) 3-1/4HP Ryobi RE-600 but it
was destined for a table when I bought it. I wouldn't turn it on
without having it held down securely, either. I took the handles off
of it, in fact.

On 12/6/2013 9:17 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:47:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
I think my most surprisingly cool Festool tool is my T15-3 cordless
drill. I have not yet stalled it even driving 5/16"x 4" lag screws. I
have two impact drivers, Makita and Bosch which I have not used since
getting the Festool drill two years ago.

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.



Oh Nooooooooo!

Seriousely the drills are amazingly strong.
Yes but most of us don't need to spend that kind of money on a drill.
Seriously the op did not ask for the most expensive toys he could buy.



--
Jeff

On 12/6/2013 10:05 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, wrote:

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.

AAMOF ...

Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting of FIG is being planned as we
speak.

As you have seen from last years meeting:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink


Mandatory innoculation with the Medical Grade shellac thinner has been
scientifically determined to sufficiently mitigate the effects of FBD,
with a yearly booster mandatory.

It appears that this years Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting
will be between Christmas and New Years, more than likely 12/28-29th.

Any wRec'er who will be in the Houston area at that time is hereby
invited to attend.

Attendees getting their first shot are required to bring the appropriate
Medical Grade (Blanton's, etc) shellac thinner. (Mr Bridges, is
requested to provide his DD).

It is rumored that someone may even provide a Gumbo to soften the
effects of the inoculation ... ya never know.


Kind of a motley crew ;-)

--
Jeff

On 12/6/2013 4:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
Jeff Mazur wrote:
OK, this is just CRAZY - guys, I can't thank you enough for the flood of
replies! I remarked to my son the other day that I noticed that
woodworking guys seem to be almost without exception some of the nicest
people around, and you all bear that out with your attention and help.

Naahh ... we're crotchety old curmudgeons who shoot at each other at the
drop of a #5 Bailey. The survivors are ones with the big iron they can hide
behind.


+2

--
Jeff

As a footnote, I have seen LOTS of back-and-forth about ShopSmith tools, so I'm going to go on the record here to (hopefully) avoid a repeat of some of the ugly threads I've witnessed elsewhe

1) YES, SS is a compromise tool in both power and configuration. Built for those without a lot of space.
2) NOT a great value when purchased new (unless you don't much space.)
3) VERY good value when purchased cheaply - I got a starter table saw, plus a lathe if I want to try turning, plus a drill press, borer and sander.
4) WELL built, in the USA.
5) Pricy, pricy, PRICY accessories.

In summary, can't say I love it, but am grateful I found one at a good price when I did. I may be the first SS owner to ever NOT gush about the darn thing, and am proud of that fact

And I'm grateful to you guys for being welcoming and helpful. Will try to offer what I can as well.

JM


My biggest problem with Shopsmith is:
1) being lazy (not totally) but if I want to do something I want to do
it without a lot of trouble... And for the shopsmith you have to take it
apart and put it together.
2) it's not a real table saw.
3) you can't do two things at once, you need to take it apart to do
something. So if you need to redo something you are up the creek.
4) expense..
5) everything is a compromise.. so it's not really good at any of them.

--
Jeff

On 12/6/2013 5:38 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 12/6/2013 9:17 AM, Leon wrote:
On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:47:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
I think my most surprisingly cool Festool tool is my T15-3 cordless
drill. I have not yet stalled it even driving 5/16"x 4" lag screws. I
have two impact drivers, Makita and Bosch which I have not used since
getting the Festool drill two years ago.

Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
chance.



Oh Nooooooooo!

Seriousely the drills are amazingly strong.
Yes but most of us don't need to spend that kind of money on a drill.

No one needs to, ;~)


Seriously the op did not ask for the most expensive toys he could buy.


Well actually he said,

Are there any modern tools, new ones that are new to the marketplace
that are must-haves or really-great-to-haves? Sawstop comes to mind as
a good example, IMO. Others?