I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume they
discontinued it.
Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq

"ChairMan" wrote:


I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment issues
aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume they
discontinued it.
Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq
--------------------------------------------------
Purely personal opinion.

Freud makes some great cutting tools and IMHO, they should stay there
and not venture into other pastures.

Lew

On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:19:21 -0500, "ChairMan"
I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume they

Much as the weight that Leon's opinion does carry, it would be pretty
difficult for him to give a decent opinion on the Freud FDW710K
Doweling Jointer if he hasn't tried the tool out.

To me, the greatest lack of capability that this particular tool
carries, is the fact that you can't cut a slightly wider mortise with
it (as you can with a Domino) and adjust the sideways fit when you're
gluing up your project. In other words, with this doweling jointer,
you have to be absolutely correct with placement or it's going to be
screwed up.

To me, anyway, I think that's a glaring lack of capability. I'd
suggest you will get a more informed opinion from some users who
actually have used the tool.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-...ews/B001ET78TC

On 5/21/2013 12:19 AM, ChairMan wrote:
I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume they
discontinued it.
Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq




I saw that shortly after the Domino was introduced. It drills 2 dowel
holes. You can probably do that with a doweling jig and a drill.

If there are complaints about alignment problems I would suspect the
tool in this case. Freud has never been know for offering much more
than entry level power tools.

If you see a specific need it might be worth a try providing you have
the opportunity to return it should it not live up to your expectations.

Something to consider, If you were to have row of holes say 8~10 your
mating pair of holes would have to be precisely aligned. Looks like the
machine places two holes 32mm apart. Not sure if it would index off of
a previous pair of holes like the Domino does and it probably has no
provision to allow for "non perfectly aligned holds" like the Domino does.

"ChairMan" wrote in message ...

I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it for it seems like a
possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment issues aren't
operator issues and not the tool.

Insuring dowel alignment without clamping it in place seems iffy. As there
is little to no wiggle room with dowels compared to say biscuits, nor the
ability to widen the holes like with loose tenons, it looks like a
frustration machine... ;~)

On 5/21/13 1:19 AM, wrote:
To me, the greatest lack of capability that this particular tool
carries, is the fact that you can't cut a slightly wider mortise with
it (as you can with a Domino) and adjust the sideways fit when you're
gluing up your project. In other words, with this doweling jointer,
you have to be absolutely correct with placement or it's going to be
screwed up.

To me, anyway, I think that's a glaring lack of capability. I'd
suggest you will get a more informed opinion from some users who
actually have used the tool.


Interesting. So you want an expensive, precise boring tool that still
allows you to be sloppy in your assembly? I thought that was one of the
most coveted features of the Domino-- the ability to cut mortises that
lined up precisely with one another.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/21/13 8:16 AM, Leon wrote:
Not sure if it would index off of
a previous pair of holes like the Domino does and it probably has no
provision to allow for "non perfectly aligned holds" like the Domino does.

Here it is again? What am I missing, here? You buy a super expensive,
incredibly precise machining tool so it can produce sloppy results?

I thought one of the main reasons people use tenons or dowels was for
alignment?
Are you saying that even the Festool doesn't get the alignment perfect?
Or is there some aspect is M&T joinery technique that makes it
beneficial to have a sloppy joint? I haven't done a gazillion loose
tenon joints like you, so I honestly want an explanation for this.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:30:11 -0500, -MIKE-
Interesting. So you want an expensive, precise boring tool that still
allows you to be sloppy in your assembly? I thought that was one of the
most coveted features of the Domino-- the ability to cut mortises that
lined up precisely with one another.

No, you've got it wrong. The domino is purposely capable of cutting
three widths of mortises. One that is exact, one that is a little
wider than the domino and one that is wider still. The wider slots
permit that attaching surfaces to be off and yet still be aligned in
proper position before being clamped in place for the glue to dry.

On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:37:04 -0500, -MIKE-
Are you saying that even the Festool doesn't get the alignment perfect?
Or is there some aspect is M&T joinery technique that makes it
beneficial to have a sloppy joint? I haven't done a gazillion loose
tenon joints like you, so I honestly want an explanation for this.

No, we're saying that you don't understand the type of joinery that
can be done with the domino.

The mortises are cut perfectly on the vertical plane, but can be, if
desired, cut wider on the horizontal plane. The wider (if desired)
horizontal mortises permit some sideways adjustment, yet still enable
wider flat surfaces to fit flush and be properly glued.

Think of it as being similar to a biscuit that can slide in one
direction, but doesn't slide or move in the perpendicular vertical
direction.

On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:30:11 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

Interesting. So you want an expensive, precise boring tool that still
allows you to be sloppy in your assembly? I thought that was one of the
most coveted features of the Domino-- the ability to cut mortises that
lined up precisely with one another.

Mike, all the biscuit joiners I've seen cut a slot a little wider than
the nominal biscuit size. The ability of the Domino to cut "exact" slots
may be the odd feature :-).

But regardless of the jig or joiner, all dowel holes have to be exact by
the nature of the beast. So you're right about those who want sloppy
fits from a doweling tool.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On 5/21/13 11:09 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:37:04 -0500, -MIKE-
Are you saying that even the Festool doesn't get the alignment perfect?
Or is there some aspect is M&T joinery technique that makes it
beneficial to have a sloppy joint? I haven't done a gazillion loose
tenon joints like you, so I honestly want an explanation for this.

No, we're saying that you don't understand the type of joinery that
can be done with the domino.

The mortises are cut perfectly on the vertical plane, but can be, if
desired, cut wider on the horizontal plane. The wider (if desired)
horizontal mortises permit some sideways adjustment, yet still enable
wider flat surfaces to fit flush and be properly glued.

Think of it as being similar to a biscuit that can slide in one
direction, but doesn't slide or move in the perpendicular vertical
direction.


Excellent. Makes perfect sense. Thanks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/21/13 11:12 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:30:11 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

Interesting. So you want an expensive, precise boring tool that still
allows you to be sloppy in your assembly? I thought that was one of the
most coveted features of the Domino-- the ability to cut mortises that
lined up precisely with one another.

Mike, all the biscuit joiners I've seen cut a slot a little wider than
the nominal biscuit size. The ability of the Domino to cut "exact" slots
may be the odd feature :-).

But regardless of the jig or joiner, all dowel holes have to be exact by
the nature of the beast. So you're right about those who want sloppy
fits from a doweling tool.


The last set of bookcases I built were in two sections.
I used dowels to align them during final assembly and they worked like a
charm.

After getting a good explanation for the "sloppiness" of the Domino, I
can see that they, too, would've provided the necessary "exact"
alignment for my assembly on the desired plane. I can also see how the
"sloppy" feature may have made my assembly a bit easier on the opposite
plane.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/21/2013 10:30 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/21/13 1:19 AM, wrote:
To me, the greatest lack of capability that this particular tool
carries, is the fact that you can't cut a slightly wider mortise with
it (as you can with a Domino) and adjust the sideways fit when you're
gluing up your project. In other words, with this doweling jointer,
you have to be absolutely correct with placement or it's going to be
screwed up.

To me, anyway, I think that's a glaring lack of capability. I'd
suggest you will get a more informed opinion from some users who
actually have used the tool.


Interesting. So you want an expensive, precise boring tool that still
allows you to be sloppy in your assembly? I thought that was one of the
most coveted features of the Domino-- the ability to cut mortises that
lined up precisely with one another.


Seriously, in the real world perfect alignment with a hand held machine
is a tall order. The Domini does insure great height/depth alignment
but it being a hand held machine and cutting mating mortises in two
steps does introduce the possibility of misalignment from one to the
next and that telegraphs error with the first misaligned mortise. The
Domino answer to that problem is the ability to widen the mating holes
while not affecting up and down alignment. The Domino tenons fit so
precisely in the standard slot that perfect alignment of all mating
mortises would have to be absolutely certain. FWIW the 5mm tenons have
to be driven in with a hammer, If you missed that perfect alignment
because of debris in a previous mortise you would not be able to mate
the parts especially if you used multiple Dominoes.

If the Freud drilled oval holes to remedy human alignmant error the
contact point of the dowels to wood would be almost non existent. The
holes would have to be an exact fit and "PRECISELY" placed for proper
mating fit of the dowel in the hole. That is not likely to happen given
the holes of mating pieces are drilled in two separate operations.

With the Domino, even with a Domino tenon fitting into one of the wider
mortises you still have the entire top/bottom face of the tenon making
contact with the mortise.

On 5/21/2013 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/21/13 11:12 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:30:11 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

Interesting. So you want an expensive, precise boring tool that still
allows you to be sloppy in your assembly? I thought that was one of the
most coveted features of the Domino-- the ability to cut mortises that
lined up precisely with one another.

Mike, all the biscuit joiners I've seen cut a slot a little wider than
the nominal biscuit size. The ability of the Domino to cut "exact" slots
may be the odd feature :-).

But regardless of the jig or joiner, all dowel holes have to be exact by
the nature of the beast. So you're right about those who want sloppy
fits from a doweling tool.


The last set of bookcases I built were in two sections.
I used dowels to align them during final assembly and they worked like a
charm.

After getting a good explanation for the "sloppiness" of the Domino, I
can see that they, too, would've provided the necessary "exact"
alignment for my assembly on the desired plane. I can also see how the
"sloppy" feature may have made my assembly a bit easier on the opposite
plane.



There you go!

I will add that while the Domino has alignment indexing pins that on
paper could provide precise alignment, IMHO the pins are more of an
indexing starting point. I generally use the exact fit mortise on the
piece that is cut into end grain as that typically is the narrower piece
with less leeway for a wider mortise. On the mating piece, typically on
the edge of a board I use the wider mortise. I lay out the mortises
much like you would do with a plate joiner/ biscuit cutter.

On 5/21/2013 10:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/21/13 8:16 AM, Leon wrote:
Not sure if it would index off of
a previous pair of holes like the Domino does and it probably has no
provision to allow for "non perfectly aligned holds" like the Domino
does.

Here it is again? What am I missing, here? You buy a super expensive,
incredibly precise machining tool so it can produce sloppy results?

I thought one of the main reasons people use tenons or dowels was for
alignment?
Are you saying that even the Festool doesn't get the alignment perfect?
Or is there some aspect is M&T joinery technique that makes it
beneficial to have a sloppy joint? I haven't done a gazillion loose
tenon joints like you, so I honestly want an explanation for this.



For a single mortise and Domino tenon the indexing pins are fine. Once
you start adding 4~10 mortises down the edge of a board a precise fit
will be very difficult to achieve with out slight spacing error adding
up. This is where the wider hole allows the mating piece to wiggle to
exactly where you want it. Even then you need a hammer to tap the
precise positioning of the mating pieces as the Domino tenons are a
pretty tight friction fit with out glue.

On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:09:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
For a single mortise and Domino tenon the indexing pins are fine. Once
you start adding 4~10 mortises down the edge of a board a precise fit
will be very difficult to achieve with out slight spacing error adding up

That explanation also explains the initial popularity of the biscuit
joiner ~ the fact that on a horizontal plane at least, mortises didn't
need to be exact.

Now, the domino has added a new factor to fast and easy done loose
tenons. Even though I've got a Domino, I still occasionally retch at
the price of Festool products when they *could* sell them a little
cheaper and still make a significant amount of money. Guess they're of
the opinion that price makes them a better quality tool ~ something I
don't always agree with.

On 5/21/2013 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:09:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
For a single mortise and Domino tenon the indexing pins are fine. Once
you start adding 4~10 mortises down the edge of a board a precise fit
will be very difficult to achieve with out slight spacing error adding up

That explanation also explains the initial popularity of the biscuit
joiner ~ the fact that on a horizontal plane at least, mortises didn't
need to be exact.

Yes in theory, but I had a PC 556 and 557 type 1 biscuit joiner and I
could not rely on either one to consistently provide mating surfaces
that mated with a single plane. That was probably more the fault in
the wildly inconsistent thicknesses of the biscuits themselves.
This is totally not an issue with the Domino and the Domino tenons.



Now, the domino has added a new factor to fast and easy done loose
tenons. Even though I've got a Domino, I still occasionally retch at
the price of Festool products when they *could* sell them a little
cheaper and still make a significant amount of money. Guess they're of
the opinion that price makes them a better quality tool ~ something I
don't always agree with.


I suspect that if Festool dropped the Domino $200 that there would still
be a boat load of people that would think that was highway robbery and
for their needs it probably would be if they were being forced to buy
that particular brand of tool. Fortunately there are other brands of
tools as an alternative. My tools has paid for itself time and again,
actually all of my Festool tools have except perhaps for the drill and
track saw, the track saw will eventually pay for it self. The drill is
simply much more convenient for me with all of it's attachments and
strangely enough it has replaced my Makita impact driver, I don't think
I have used the impact driver since December 2011.

As far as quality goes I have only worn out a power cord, my tools still
seem to operate like they did when new, except for the consumable parts
like sand paper and the sanding pads on my finish sander and Rotex
sander. The Domino has probably cut in excess of 8,000 mortises and it
still operates like new. So while the quality might be hard to
distinguished from a popular brand tool at half the price, will that
other tool still be like new 6 years later like my Domino and CT22 dust
extractor?

Prior to switching my sanders to Festool brand, I used for many years a
PC right angle ROS and a PC Speedbloc. I wore one Speedbloc out after
13 years and replaced it with the same. I still don't believe that
sander has any competition when it comes to actually getting the work
done, it would raise a cloud of dust almost instantly, same goes for the
PC right angle ROS. BUT with the dust extractor the finish sander I no
longer need to get rid of dust before applying a finish and or before I
go inside to eat dinner. The work environment remains clean. The Rotex
sander handles the dust in much the same manner but can compete with a
belt sander when switched into it's aggressive mode. So these sanders
save time in more way than one.

FWIW Festool does not sell their tools to the end user, rather they
dictate the selling price by the retailer, This affords the dealer the
ability to make a decent enough profit to warrant stocking the
merchandise. I highly suspect that the dealers have a higher profit
margin on Festool products than it does on competitive brands. So while
we don't know what the actually profit is for Festool, I can assure you
that the dealers are benefiting from the pricing structure also.
Festool is not making all of the profit.

The big advantage to all is that you know that regardless of where you
buy your Festool product you will be getting the best price and the
dealer can feel confident that if he did a good job selling you on the
benefits of the tool you are likely to buy from him. Basically there is
no advantage to you using your dealer to show you the product and you
buying from an on line company.

Now while some call this price fixing, you have other choices with other
brands. If a competitor comes up with a similar product of similar
quality Festool always has the option of lowering the price or throwing
in extra benefits like a 3 year warranty, a custom carrying case,
accessories that would be optional with other brands.... Oh wait! they
already do that. LOL Actually if they sold their tools with out the
power cord and case they could drop the price by $100 immediately.

AFWIW you can now spend $500 on a Festool, Fein, or DeWalt vacuum.

My 2 cents:

I tried one of the less expensive solutions -- the Beadlock by Rockler. Then I got a screaming deal on a used Domino. The difference is night and day. The Beadlock was a PITA and if I was a half-hair off on setup the tenons wouldn't seat in perfect alignment. It would take 10 minutes for one joint as compared to less than a minute with the Domino.

Cost, of course, is another story. I'm using my shop vac but had to buy the Festool hose. $80 IIRC for the hose!!

Larry

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:19:21 AM UTC-5, ChairMan wrote:
I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it for

it seems like a possible alternative.

It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment

issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.

Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume they

discontinued it.

Thoughts?



http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D



or



http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq

ChairMan wrote:
I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it
for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume
they
discontinued it.
Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq

Thanks for the replies, I wasn't tryin to start a war about
the domino.
I normally use a Stanley #59 doweling jig and have used the
self centering type, both are usually off a bit.
I guess for doweling *perfect* alignment a boring machine is
the answer. I just ran across the Freud a month or so a go I
thought about it, and didn't bite because of the reviews. I
was just wondering if anyone had personal experience with
one. The logic of the alignment issues makes sense now that
I know the domino allows wigggle room. That usually what I
do with the doweling jigs, either wallow it a tad or shave a
bit off one side of the dowel
Thanks again for the replies

John Grossbohlin
wrote:
"ChairMan" wrote in message
...

I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it
for it seems
like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues
aren't operator issues and not the tool.

Insuring dowel alignment without clamping it in place
seems iffy. As
there is little to no wiggle room with dowels compared to
say
biscuits, nor the ability to widen the holes like with
loose tenons,
it looks like a frustration machine... ;~)

makes sense, thanks

Gramp's shop wrote:
My 2 cents:

I tried one of the less expensive solutions -- the
Beadlock by
Rockler. Then I got a screaming deal on a used Domino.
The
difference is night and day. The Beadlock was a PITA and
if I was a
half-hair off on setup the tenons wouldn't seat in perfect
alignment.
It would take 10 minutes for one joint as compared to less
than a
minute with the Domino.

Cost, of course, is another story. I'm using my shop vac
but had to
buy the Festool hose. $80 IIRC for the hose!!

Larry



I looked at the beadlock and dowelmax, but neither offer
7/16" option for dowels.
I guess I'll just stick with the way I've been doing it for
years

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 5/21/2013 12:19 AM, ChairMan wrote:
I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it
for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume
they
discontinued it.
Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq




I saw that shortly after the Domino was introduced. It
drills 2 dowel
holes. You can probably do that with a doweling jig and a
drill.

If there are complaints about alignment problems I would
suspect the
tool in this case. Freud has never been know for offering
much more
than entry level power tools.

If you see a specific need it might be worth a try
providing you have
the opportunity to return it should it not live up to your
expectations.
Something to consider, If you were to have row of holes
say 8~10 your
mating pair of holes would have to be precisely aligned.
Looks like
the machine places two holes 32mm apart. Not sure if it
would index
off of a previous pair of holes like the Domino does and
it probably has no
provision to allow for "non perfectly aligned holds" like
the Domino
does.

Thanks, I would probably just use it with one bit, since
32mm isn't my normal spacing for me.
I thenk it does have an indexing feature, though

wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:19:21 -0500, "ChairMan"

I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it
for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume
they

Much as the weight that Leon's opinion does carry, it
would be pretty
difficult for him to give a decent opinion on the Freud
FDW710K
Doweling Jointer if he hasn't tried the tool out.

To me, the greatest lack of capability that this
particular tool
carries, is the fact that you can't cut a slightly wider
mortise with
it (as you can with a Domino) and adjust the sideways fit
when you're
gluing up your project. In other words, with this doweling
jointer,
you have to be absolutely correct with placement or it's
going to be
screwed up.

To me, anyway, I think that's a glaring lack of
capability. I'd
suggest you will get a more informed opinion from some
users who
actually have used the tool.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-...ews/B001ET78TC

I read the reviews and said it got so-so reviews and wanted
to know if the alignment
issues weren't operator issues and not the tool

On 5/21/13 11:28 PM, ChairMan wrote:
Thanks for the replies, I wasn't tryin to start a war about
the domino.


War?
That was a very civil discussion.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 5/21/13 11:28 PM, ChairMan wrote:
Thanks for the replies, I wasn't tryin to start a war
about
the domino.


War?
That was a very civil discussion.

I know......but sarcasm doesn't type well g
Hell, I learnt that even the domino ya gotta wallow, who
woulda thunk it

On May 21, 11:28*pm, "ChairMan" wrote:

That usually what I
do with the doweling jigs, either wallow it a tad or shave a
bit off one side of the dowel

A time honored method of installation.

I started out a few decades ago using dowels, a hand drill and a
drilling jig. Loved dowels and found them to be quite an asset to
strength, but time consuming for multiple dowels to be used in a fit
up.

Then we all went to splines, and bought quarter inch stock and sized
it on a hand powered miter saw to get the correct length. We cut the
mortises as needed with a fly bit though, using a router. If we were
being finicky, we could clean up the edges of our cut groove with a
quarter in chisel.

Went to biscuits as it was essentially our fly cutter permanently
mounted in a machine that we could move. Much more portable, and not
so much over travel to make sure you got the mortise large enough to
shift for alignment purposes. Used it for years, found the maker of
the biscuits as well as the storage method directly affected fit.

Realized that with today's modern glue, didn't really need biscuits
like I thought I did, and went back to glue only on layups. Still
like the biscuit for 90 degree edge joints.

Tried many other forms of all wood joinery, and became happy with the
occasional use of the biscuit machine again. (Believe it or not, Leon
had a hand in that!)

Still looking for the perfect system. Can't justify the Domino,
although I have tried every way I can to do so. To me, it looks about
as perfect as automated joint cutting devices can be, and certainly
Leon's inventiveness in using it for all manner of joinery bear that
out.

Maybe one day...

Robert

"ChairMan" wrote:
ChairMan wrote:
I know its not a domino, Leon, but given what I need it
for
it seems like a possible alternative.
It gets so-so reviews and I'm wondering if the alignment
issues aren't operator issues and not the tool.
Also, Freud doesn't show it on their website, so assume
they
discontinued it.
Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FDW710K-Doweling-Jointer-Carrying/dp/B001ET78TC/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t?ie=UTF8&colid=3FS2WHQ8HSM8V&coli id=I39A0Y5JDPVR3D

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lpqjknq

Thanks for the replies, I wasn't tryin to start a war about
the domino.
I normally use a Stanley #59 doweling jig and have used the
self centering type, both are usually off a bit.
I guess for doweling *perfect* alignment a boring machine is
the answer. I just ran across the Freud a month or so a go I
thought about it, and didn't bite because of the reviews. I
was just wondering if anyone had personal experience with
one. The logic of the alignment issues makes sense now that
I know the domino allows wigggle room. That usually what I
do with the doweling jigs, either wallow it a tad or shave a
bit off one side of the dowel
Thanks again for the replies

No war at all! I figured that others were reading also an might
appreciate the info..

wrote:
On May 21, 11:28 pm, "ChairMan" wrote:

That usually what I
do with the doweling jigs, either wallow it a tad or
shave a
bit off one side of the dowel

A time honored method of installation.

I started out a few decades ago using dowels, a hand drill
and a
drilling jig. Loved dowels and found them to be quite an
asset to
strength, but time consuming for multiple dowels to be
used in a fit
up.

Then we all went to splines, and bought quarter inch stock
and sized
it on a hand powered miter saw to get the correct length.
We cut the
mortises as needed with a fly bit though, using a router.
If we were
being finicky, we could clean up the edges of our cut
groove with a
quarter in chisel.

Went to biscuits as it was essentially our fly cutter
permanently
mounted in a machine that we could move. Much more
portable, and not
so much over travel to make sure you got the mortise large
enough to
shift for alignment purposes. Used it for years, found
the maker of
the biscuits as well as the storage method directly
affected fit.

Realized that with today's modern glue, didn't really need
biscuits
like I thought I did, and went back to glue only on
layups. Still
like the biscuit for 90 degree edge joints.

Tried many other forms of all wood joinery, and became
happy with the
occasional use of the biscuit machine again. (Believe it
or not, Leon
had a hand in that!)

Still looking for the perfect system. Can't justify the
Domino,
although I have tried every way I can to do so. To me, it
looks about
as perfect as automated joint cutting devices can be, and
certainly
Leon's inventiveness in using it for all manner of joinery
bear that
out.

Maybe one day...

Robert

I use biscuit where sheer strength isn't an issue, but when
it comes to putting a furniture frame together. Arms, rails
and back posts *have to be* doweled.
As far as storing buscuits, I've started putting those
little silca packs that ya get in your vitamins and such in
the jar to absorb moisture. works pretty good(so far)

Agreed!

I use biscuits rarely but when I do it is for alignment.
Screws, pins, plugs, whatever has the strength afterwards.
Even glue is tougher - the biscuits keep the parts from sliding.

Martin

On 5/23/2013 11:58 PM, ChairMan wrote:
wrote:
On May 21, 11:28 pm, "ChairMan" wrote:

That usually what I
do with the doweling jigs, either wallow it a tad or
shave a
bit off one side of the dowel

A time honored method of installation.

I started out a few decades ago using dowels, a hand drill
and a
drilling jig. Loved dowels and found them to be quite an
asset to
strength, but time consuming for multiple dowels to be
used in a fit
up.

Then we all went to splines, and bought quarter inch stock
and sized
it on a hand powered miter saw to get the correct length.
We cut the
mortises as needed with a fly bit though, using a router.
If we were
being finicky, we could clean up the edges of our cut
groove with a
quarter in chisel.

Went to biscuits as it was essentially our fly cutter
permanently
mounted in a machine that we could move. Much more
portable, and not
so much over travel to make sure you got the mortise large
enough to
shift for alignment purposes. Used it for years, found
the maker of
the biscuits as well as the storage method directly
affected fit.

Realized that with today's modern glue, didn't really need
biscuits
like I thought I did, and went back to glue only on
layups. Still
like the biscuit for 90 degree edge joints.

Tried many other forms of all wood joinery, and became
happy with the
occasional use of the biscuit machine again. (Believe it
or not, Leon
had a hand in that!)

Still looking for the perfect system. Can't justify the
Domino,
although I have tried every way I can to do so. To me, it
looks about
as perfect as automated joint cutting devices can be, and
certainly
Leon's inventiveness in using it for all manner of joinery
bear that
out.

Maybe one day...

Robert

I use biscuit where sheer strength isn't an issue, but when
it comes to putting a furniture frame together. Arms, rails
and back posts *have to be* doweled.
As far as storing buscuits, I've started putting those
little silca packs that ya get in your vitamins and such in
the jar to absorb moisture. works pretty good(so far)