"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West
Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws
remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West
Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws
remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html

Amazing they could save him. According to the lead in to the article, he
even used a saw powerful enough to cut through drywall!

--

-Mike-

What idiots! One (idiot #1) doesn't save idiots (idiot #2) as that. You let them die (off).

Stay tuned. We may see idiot #2 running for public office, soon.

Sonny

Sonny wrote:
What idiots! One (idiot #1) doesn't save idiots (idiot #2) as that. You
let them die (off).

Stay tuned. We may see idiot #2 running for public office, soon.

Sonny

Obviously a disturbed person. Must'a been the chain jerking gas prices that
sent him over the edge.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West
Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws
remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html

Don't give Gass any ideas! It is bad enough he wants to go after all the
table saws. We don't want him to go after hand saws too. Where does it
end?

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West
Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws
remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html


We need to demand that Home Depot and other stores lock up their saws and
conduct mandatory background checks on anyone wishing to handle or purchase
one... if it saves just one life it is worth it. Andrew Cuomo and Chuck
Schumer can help them spend millions to operationalize the process and
procedures. Write your Congressional representatives and Senators now! Who
knows how to set up a MoveOn.org petition? ;~)

The solution, of course, is background checks on anyone wanting to enter a bigbox home store. Then, of course, we'll need to TSA -- tool safety administration -- and the requisite pat downs. "Is that a hammer in your pocket or are you just happy to be here?"

Larry


On Friday, April 12, 2013 4:57:10 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West



Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws

remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."





http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html

Write your Congressional representatives and Senators now! Who

knows how to set up a MoveOn.org petition? ;~)

Saws don't saw people, people saw people.

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West
Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws
remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html


We need to demand that Home Depot and other stores lock up their saws and
conduct mandatory background checks on anyone wishing to handle or
purchase one... if it saves just one life it is worth it. Andrew Cuomo
and Chuck Schumer can help them spend millions to operationalize the
process and procedures. Write your Congressional representatives and
Senators now! Who knows how to set up a MoveOn.org petition? ;~)


Considering that someone just attacked some people in a school with a knife,
I expect the anti knife legislation will come first.

Just when we thought it was safe to carry a small knife on an
aircraft..........


Vic

"Vic Baron" wrote in message ...



"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"A man found in a pool of blood at a home improvement store in West
Covina after he purposefully attempted to cut his arms with handsaws
remained in critical condition Thursday morning, authorities said."


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Firefighter-Paramedic-West-Covina-Home-Depot-202462491.html


We need to demand that Home Depot and other stores lock up their saws and
conduct mandatory background checks on anyone wishing to handle or
purchase one... if it saves just one life it is worth it. Andrew Cuomo
and Chuck Schumer can help them spend millions to operationalize the
process and procedures. Write your Congressional representatives and
Senators now! Who knows how to set up a MoveOn.org petition? ;~)


Considering that someone just attacked some people in a school with a knife,
I expect the anti knife legislation will come first.

Just when we thought it was safe to carry a small knife on an
aircraft..........
================================================== ====================
Mario Cuomo, when governor of NY, gave a speech regarding a high profile
murder where the victim was stabbed to death. He said that was proof that we
needed stricter gun control. I wonder what kind of gun the victim was
stabbed with.

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:36:16 -0700, "CW" wrote:
Mario Cuomo, when governor of NY, gave a speech regarding a high profile
murder where the victim was stabbed to death. He said that was proof that we
needed stricter gun control. I wonder what kind of gun the victim was
stabbed with.

Rifle with a bayonet?

On Friday, April 12, 2013 11:21:05 PM UTC-5, Upscale wrote:
Rifle with a bayonet?

Rifle with more than a 10 bayonet clip.

Sonny

On 4/12/2013 11:25 AM, Vic Baron wrote:


Considering that someone just attacked some people in a school with a
knife, I expect the anti knife legislation will come first.

Vic

Of course, no-one died in this attack.

"scritch" wrote in message ...

On 4/12/2013 11:25 AM, Vic Baron wrote:


Considering that someone just attacked some people in a school with a
knife, I expect the anti knife legislation will come first.

Vic

Of course, no-one died in this attack.

But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:10:37 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

Right. Let's use that as a reason to equip everybody including
teachers with firearms.

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:10:37 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

Right. Let's use that as a reason to equip everybody including
teachers with firearms.

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Sure, but the bigger problem is the mental state of the person wielding
either tool. Failure to address the root problem will result in the weed
continuing to pop up in other places.

--

-Mike-

"Dave" wrote in message ...

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:10:37 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

Right. Let's use that as a reason to equip everybody including
teachers with firearms.

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Ever hear of the "21 foot rule?" Anyone armed with a knife whom is that
distance from you can inflict serious physical injury upon you, that may be
lethal, and do this before you could draw and shoot them. A motivated
assailant can do a lot of damage... and some can do it from from more than
21 feet away.

On 4/14/2013 6:19 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:10:37 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

Right. Let's use that as a reason to equip everybody including
teachers with firearms.

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.



I knife will never be used for mass killings like a gun. Take away the
gun and the guy then uses a pipe bomb.

On 04/14/2013 08:15 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/14/2013 6:19 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:10:37 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

Right. Let's use that as a reason to equip everybody including
teachers with firearms.

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.



I knife will never be used for mass killings like a gun. Take away the
gun and the guy then uses a pipe bomb.

Fertilizer and diesel fuel is much more effective - as witnessed in
Oklahoma City. Mass murderers find the most effective means for their
ugly twisted deeds. Unfortunately, they are very adaptable.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:06:10 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

I knife will never be used for mass killings like a gun. Take away the
gun and the guy then uses a pipe bomb.

Fertilizer and diesel fuel is much more effective - as witnessed in
Oklahoma City. Mass murderers find the most effective means for their
ugly twisted deeds. Unfortunately, they are very adaptable.

Come on. You're really going to compare home made bombs to gun
shootings? Pipe bombs, fertilizer bombs might be effective, but still
they're still another animal and not really in the same ball park. The
terror of someone walking along shooting people isn't matched by your
home made bombs.

It's easier to obtain guns (and use them) than your home made bombs,
otherwise you'd be hearing of many more domestic bombings in the news.

In the end, the knowledge needed to obtain and shoot a firearm is much
less than that needed for bomb making.

Dave wrote:


Come on. You're really going to compare home made bombs to gun
shootings? Pipe bombs, fertilizer bombs might be effective, but still
they're still another animal and not really in the same ball park. The
terror of someone walking along shooting people isn't matched by your
home made bombs.

It's easier to obtain guns (and use them) than your home made bombs,
otherwise you'd be hearing of many more domestic bombings in the news.


Actually - it's much easier to build homemade bombs than to acquire a
firearm. But, ease must not be what it's all about in the minds of people
who go off the edge.

In the end, the knowledge needed to obtain and shoot a firearm is much
less than that needed for bomb making.

Scant little knowledge necessary to build a bomb. Common materials,
instructions easily found on the internet.

--

-Mike-

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:06:10 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

I knife will never be used for mass killings like a gun. Take away the
gun and the guy then uses a pipe bomb.

Fertilizer and diesel fuel is much more effective - as witnessed in
Oklahoma City. Mass murderers find the most effective means for their
ugly twisted deeds. Unfortunately, they are very adaptable.

Come on. You're really going to compare home made bombs to gun
shootings? Pipe bombs, fertilizer bombs might be effective, but still
they're still another animal and not really in the same ball park. The
terror of someone walking along shooting people isn't matched by your
home made bombs.

Take away guns and you will find out. And for that matter several days
ago a college student went walking through a school campus in Cyprus TX and
stabbed a dozen or more people. Since he was 6 he fantasized about what it
would be like to stab some one with a knife.

It's easier to obtain guns (and use them) than your home made bombs,
otherwise you'd be hearing of many more domestic bombings in the news.

Actually guns are much harder to obtain. Home Depo has every thing you
need to make a pipe bomb and much cheaper than buying a gun.

The real problem are the people that want to kill other people. IMHO this
has become more of a problem when we decided to blame others for why Johnny
is a murderer. Compared to 50 years ago the consequences of behavior that
leads up to tragic results are now a slap on the hand and or sensitivity
training for the normal people.
Simply put you don't fix the problem by taking away the rights of every one
to keep the menace from killing people, you treat the menace in a manor to
actually discourage such behavior with out regard to whose "feelings" are
going to be hurt.. And the parents are as much to blame as anyone.



In the end, the knowledge needed to obtain and shoot a firearm is much
less than that needed for bomb making.

Perhaps an atomic bomb but not a Molotov Cocktail.

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Dave wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:10:37 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
But many children have died in China in recent years in similar knife
attacks at schools... By statute they and other locations have become
relatively safe places for madmen to cause mayhem.

Right. Let's use that as a reason to equip everybody including
teachers with firearms.

The problem with guns is that you can't outrun a bullet and it's
pretty hard to fight off someone if they're aiming a gun at you. With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Sure, but the bigger problem is the mental state of the person wielding
either tool. Failure to address the root problem will result in the weed
continuing to pop up in other places.


Exactly! When you dumb down the system so that every one wins it becomes
hard to recognize the losers.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:19:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Scant little knowledge necessary to build a bomb. Common materials,
instructions easily found on the internet.

But, it doesn't happen that way does it? Guns are by far the tool of
choice when some nut job goes off the deep end and goes on a killing
rampage.

I can't remember *ever* hearing of someone rampaging around with a
bomb. Sure there have been bombings, but it's usually someone who
plants it and then isn't there when it goes off.

That's a completely different scenario than someone walking through a
building shooting people.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:25:27 -0500, Leon wrote:
Actually guns are much harder to obtain. Home Depo has every thing you
need to make a pipe bomb and much cheaper than buying a gun.

Read my answer to Mike. It doesn't matter what materials are easier to
obtain, it's just not happening that way.

And as far as you person with the knife, 22 people were stabbed and it
wasn't clear if there were *any* fatalities. Can you tell me if it
would have been the same if those 22 people were shot instead?

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:19:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Scant little knowledge necessary to build a bomb. Common materials,
instructions easily found on the internet.

But, it doesn't happen that way does it? Guns are by far the tool of
choice when some nut job goes off the deep end and goes on a killing
rampage.

I can't remember *ever* hearing of someone rampaging around with a
bomb. Sure there have been bombings, but it's usually someone who
plants it and then isn't there when it goes off.

That's a completely different scenario than someone walking through a
building shooting people.

It is, but yesterday's experience in Boston casts a different shadow on the
discussion. I don't disagree that unstable people can and do perform bad
acts with guns, but taking and keeping guns out of the hands of everyone
isn't the solution to the problem. Unstable people are the problem. My
guess is that we'll see bombs grow in interest in that community of people
as events like Boston grow. That seems to be the way these people work.
One mass shooting leads to many others - public bombings will lead to more
bombings.

--

-Mike-

On 4/16/2013 4:57 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:19:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Scant little knowledge necessary to build a bomb. Common materials,
instructions easily found on the internet.

But, it doesn't happen that way does it? Guns are by far the tool of
choice when some nut job goes off the deep end and goes on a killing
rampage.

Guns are popular because they have been in our culture since the days of
having to own one so that you could eat and the movies glorify their
use. Out law the guns and the movies will switch to mimic and other
devices will be used.



I can't remember *ever* hearing of someone rampaging around with a
bomb. Sure there have been bombings, but it's usually someone who
plants it and then isn't there when it goes off.

Well I can assure those the used a bomb instead of guns in Boston
yesterday watched the whole thing go down. They planted the bomb where
they knew there would be cameras recording the event. And I would say
it is quite likely that they were one of the spectators.


That's a completely different scenario than someone walking through a
building shooting people.

Well in this case I believe they got to watch a couple of buildings be
destroyed and 100+ people get hurt. and I heard one expert indicate
that this looked like an untrained persons work.

On 4/16/2013 6:25 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Dave wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:19:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Scant little knowledge necessary to build a bomb. Common materials,
instructions easily found on the internet.

But, it doesn't happen that way does it? Guns are by far the tool of
choice when some nut job goes off the deep end and goes on a killing
rampage.

I can't remember *ever* hearing of someone rampaging around with a
bomb. Sure there have been bombings, but it's usually someone who
plants it and then isn't there when it goes off.

That's a completely different scenario than someone walking through a
building shooting people.

It is, but yesterday's experience in Boston casts a different shadow on the
discussion. I don't disagree that unstable people can and do perform bad
acts with guns, but taking and keeping guns out of the hands of everyone
isn't the solution to the problem. Unstable people are the problem. My
guess is that we'll see bombs grow in interest in that community of people
as events like Boston grow. That seems to be the way these people work.
One mass shooting leads to many others - public bombings will lead to more
bombings.



Case in point, I believe that guns are not allowed in the UK. How many
bombings have been used by the IRA in the past 40 years?

On 4/16/2013 5:01 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:25:27 -0500, Leon wrote:
Actually guns are much harder to obtain. Home Depo has every thing you
need to make a pipe bomb and much cheaper than buying a gun.

Read my answer to Mike. It doesn't matter what materials are easier to
obtain, it's just not happening that way.

It is happening that way but it is not as popular. Take away the guns
and it will become popular.


And as far as you person with the knife, 22 people were stabbed and it
wasn't clear if there were *any* fatalities. Can you tell me if it
would have been the same if those 22 people were shot instead?


Naturally there could have been worse injuries with had a gun been used
but this lunatic could have used a knife from the school cafeteria. Had
he had a military knife which is readily available he could have easily
killed them all.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

Dave wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 08:19:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Scant little knowledge necessary to build a bomb. Common materials,
instructions easily found on the internet.

But, it doesn't happen that way does it? Guns are by far the tool of
choice when some nut job goes off the deep end and goes on a killing
rampage.

I can't remember *ever* hearing of someone rampaging around with a
bomb. Sure there have been bombings, but it's usually someone who
plants it and then isn't there when it goes off.

That's a completely different scenario than someone walking through a
building shooting people.

It is, but yesterday's experience in Boston casts a different shadow on the
discussion. I don't disagree that unstable people can and do perform bad
acts with guns, but taking and keeping guns out of the hands of everyone
isn't the solution to the problem. Unstable people are the problem. My
guess is that we'll see bombs grow in interest in that community of people
as events like Boston grow. That seems to be the way these people work.
One mass shooting leads to many others - public bombings will lead to more
bombings.
================================================== ======================
Yes, we will see more of it. The news media will make sure of it.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
...snipped... .... With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Especially if YOU have a gun!


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Larry W wrote:
In article ,
Dave wrote:
...snipped... .... With
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Especially if YOU have a gun!



+1

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 07:25:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
acts with guns, but taking and keeping guns out of the hands of everyone
isn't the solution to the problem. Unstable people are the problem. My
guess is that we'll see bombs grow in interest in that community of people

That's not what we're discussing though. There's a completely
different mind set between someone going around and shooting people
and the person who plants a bomb (of any type) and it's there when it
goes off.

The person with the gun has essentially lost their mental faculties
and isn't thinking much about person preservation. Whereas, the bomber
still has some sense of self protection and has a different agenda.

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 08:52:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Case in point, I believe that guns are not allowed in the UK. How many
bombings have been used by the IRA in the past 40 years?

Nevertheless, there's still a different mind set between the bomber
and the person walking through some area just shooting people. They're
not thinking the same and they have a different perspective on self
preservation.

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 08:56:53 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
It is happening that way but it is not as popular. Take away the guns
and it will become popular.

No it won't. Shooting people in person will never be the same as
someone bombing people. The shooter isn't in immediate danger from the
people around him, not until the authorities arrive.

The bomber is in danger if he sets off a bomb while he's there. ~
They're two distinctly different mind sets at work.

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 18:45:09 -0700, "CW" wrote:
guess is that we'll see bombs grow in interest in that community of people
as events like Boston grow. That seems to be the way these people work.
One mass shooting leads to many others - public bombings will lead to more
bombings.

Possibly. Bombings have frequently been the terrorist minded person or
someone with an agenda. At least in the North American society,
someone walking through an area shooting people usually is done by the
person who has just lost it.

Obviously, they're both of great concern.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 02:29:53 +0000 (UTC),
someone holding a knife, you might be able to stay out of their reach
or at the very least, have a much better chance of fighting them off.

Especially if YOU have a gun!

Yeah, well, I knew someone was going to say that. And if I knew
everyone out there had a gun, then I'd probably be carrying an Uzi.
There really isn't any end to out arming someone who might be carrying
a weapon that can hurt you.

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 07:25:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
acts with guns, but taking and keeping guns out of the hands of
everyone isn't the solution to the problem. Unstable people are the
problem. My guess is that we'll see bombs grow in interest in that
community of people

That's not what we're discussing though. There's a completely
different mind set between someone going around and shooting people
and the person who plants a bomb (of any type) and it's there when it
goes off.

The person with the gun has essentially lost their mental faculties
and isn't thinking much about person preservation. Whereas, the bomber
still has some sense of self protection and has a different agenda.

I'm not so sure of that Dave.

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 06:33:02 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
The person with the gun has essentially lost their mental faculties
and isn't thinking much about person preservation. Whereas, the bomber
still has some sense of self protection and has a different agenda.

I'm not so sure of that Dave.

I wonder if there's any psychiatrists here to enlighten us?

"Dave" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 08:56:53 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
It is happening that way but it is not as popular. Take away the guns
and it will become popular.

No it won't. Shooting people in person will never be the same as
someone bombing people. The shooter isn't in immediate danger from the
people around him, not until the authorities arrive.

The bomber is in danger if he sets off a bomb while he's there. ~
They're two distinctly different mind sets at work.

I'm not sure there is a difference in most cases... the anecdotal evidence
suggests most of the mass shooters intend suicide either by self or by cop,
i.e., getting away uninjured or alive isn't a criteria in their decisions.
Theirs is a thought pattern of which most people cannot conceive as
self-preservation is a core part of any animals' make-up... these people are
not thus normal.

As access to guns becomes more difficult (real or perceived) in the U.S. it
is likely that the methods used in other countries will become more common
here in the U.S., e.g,. bombing, fires, chemical/poison attacks, and even
knives and machetes. It all falls back to the notion of weapons substitution
which historically is and will continue to be the norm in the face of
weapons shortages. Put another way, goal oriented attackers will find a way
to carry out their goals... Disregard for laws is also the norm!

John