I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to this
thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim), when I
get one...

On 1/25/2012 6:46 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:40:26 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:

I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
weapon.

Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of over 1000
fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
Kerry


I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch the
nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the energy
loss would be great on a nail

Bzzzzzzzzzzzt! Once the nail or bullet reach their relative speeds,
either from the solenoid/piston or the gunpowder/barrel, the mass of
either keeps it going to its target. Nails travel at a slower speed
for a shorter distance, but across the room, there is probably little
to no loss. That thing -will- hurt you.

Yeah I think the nail going across the room would basically be going
close to ZERO before it hit the wall. I don't think it would reach the
other side of a room and penetrate anything.

I have most every size nailer available and have shot thousands of
nails. Deflected nails that do not enter the wood can often be found
near by. Not unusual to see a toe nailed nail bounce off a fence picket
when toe nailing rails. The fact that you can see it bounce is
testament that it is not moving as fast at a distance as you might think.





The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission estimates that treating
nail gun wounds costs at least $338 million per year nationally in
emergency medical care, rehabilitation, and workers' compensation[1].
Often personnel selling the tools know little about the dangers
associated with their use or safety features that can prevent
injuries. Tell your friend, Gass, to get right on it.sigh

And you think these injuries were from nails shot across a room? ;~)

On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to this
thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim), when I
get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 1/25/2012 6:34 PM, Larry W wrote:
I'm skeptical of those 1000 fps velocities for nail guns. Consider that
a powder fastener uses a .22 cal or .27 cal cartridge. The .22, anyway,
is about the same size as a .22 rimfire firearm cartridge. Look at how light
a .22 cal bullet is; the muzzle velocity from a rifle barrel of a .22 long
rifle standard velocity round is only in the neighborhood of 1200 fps.
How could a nail gun possibly propel a much heavier nail at 1000 fps?


.

And I was thiking about this also. Why don't they use a regular nail
gun instead of a rim fire cartridge? I think the answer is that you
need more power.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to this
thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim), when I
get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:29:06 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 2:42 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:16:21 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
Don't understand what you are saying here Dave - can you run that by me
again? I'm confused by the "unrestricted hit" part of what you're saying.

I'm saying that nails from a nail gun are driven with a preconfigured
amount of force. That's evidenced by the fact that you can set the
depth that a nail is driven. In other words, all nail speeds are
muzzled and controlled to a certain extent.

If all of this is so, then it seems obvious to me that the nails
aren't driven with as much force as the gun could ultimately muster.
Compare that to a bullet. The explosion propelling a bullet isn't
muzzled in any way. That control is solely at the discretion of the
amount of powder and the explosion it makes.

I could be wrong here but this is something to think about. I have a
Bostitch framing nailer. The depth is set at the guard area and unless
I am mistaken the nail is driven with the same force however the
adjustment limits how close the nailer is to the work, the force remains
the same. I know that some nailers use different air pressures to limit
nail depth.

The difference for the nail gun is that when you shoot it into wood,
the piston continues to exert force on the nail the entire time it is
being driven to depth. With the gun shooting into air, the nail picks
up a faster velocity over less time. Total power is different due to
time-on-target difference (to confuse the issues with an artillery
term A nail won't sink full depth into a person's head when shot at
room's distance, I don't believe, but certainly will if held to the
persons head, safety-wise.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:16:21 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
Don't understand what you are saying here Dave - can you run that by
me again? I'm confused by the "unrestricted hit" part of what
you're saying.

I'm saying that nails from a nail gun are driven with a preconfigured
amount of force. That's evidenced by the fact that you can set the
depth that a nail is driven. In other words, all nail speeds are
muzzled and controlled to a certain extent.

If all of this is so, then it seems obvious to me that the nails
aren't driven with as much force as the gun could ultimately muster.
Compare that to a bullet. The explosion propelling a bullet isn't
muzzled in any way. That control is solely at the discretion of the
amount of powder and the explosion it makes.

Thanks Dave - I didn't get that (obviously...) from your post earlier.

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:34:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

I'm skeptical of those 1000 fps velocities for nail guns. Consider that
a powder fastener uses a .22 cal or .27 cal cartridge. The .22, anyway,
is about the same size as a .22 rimfire firearm cartridge. Look at how light
a .22 cal bullet is; the muzzle velocity from a rifle barrel of a .22 long
rifle standard velocity round is only in the neighborhood of 1200 fps.
How could a nail gun possibly propel a much heavier nail at 1000 fps?

Victory through superior firepower!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder-actuated_tool

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:58:12 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 6:46 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:40:26 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 11:10 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:

I think hollywood has distorted the actual results when using one as a
weapon.

Some cartridge firing nail guns are capable of nail velocities of over 1000
fps. Pneumatic ones much less.
Kerry


I could not disagree, but all energy is spent once the nail looses
contact with the hammer. The heat and expanding gasses do not touch the
nail like they do with a bullet in a gun barrel. I think the energy
loss would be great on a nail

Bzzzzzzzzzzzt! Once the nail or bullet reach their relative speeds,
either from the solenoid/piston or the gunpowder/barrel, the mass of
either keeps it going to its target. Nails travel at a slower speed
for a shorter distance, but across the room, there is probably little
to no loss. That thing -will- hurt you.

Yeah I think the nail going across the room would basically be going
close to ZERO before it hit the wall. I don't think it would reach the
other side of a room and penetrate anything.

TRY IT and then tell me about your experiences. Hold the nose safety
button down (fingers out of the way, please) and pull the trigger with
90+ psi. Wear eye protection, welding suit, helmet, gloves, etc.


I have most every size nailer available and have shot thousands of
nails. Deflected nails that do not enter the wood can often be found
near by. Not unusual to see a toe nailed nail bounce off a fence picket
when toe nailing rails. The fact that you can see it bounce is
testament that it is not moving as fast at a distance as you might think.

I don't think the pneumatics have nearly the velocity the powder
actuated nailsets do.


The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission estimates that treating
nail gun wounds costs at least $338 million per year nationally in
emergency medical care, rehabilitation, and workers' compensation[1].
Often personnel selling the tools know little about the dangers
associated with their use or safety features that can prevent
injuries. Tell your friend, Gass, to get right on it.sigh

And you think these injuries were from nails shot across a room? ;~)

Only in Anti-Gun Hollywood.


P.S: Thinking of you, Leon. http://tinyurl.com/7nyvlgh
I'm sorry it's not green.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

You have the right to air nails!


---------
"Bill" wrote in message ...
Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!

From wikipedia article

"Spring-piston guns have a practical upper limit of 1250 ft/s (380 m/s)
for .177 cal (4.5 mm) pellets. Higher velocities cause unstable pellet
flight and loss of accuracy. This is due to the shock wave generated as
the super sonic pellet contacts the air. Shortly after leaving the
barrel, the pellet falls below the speed of sound and the shock wave
overtakes the pellet, causing it to tumble. Drag increases rapidly as
pellets are pushed past the speed of sound, so it is generally better
to increase pellet weight to keep velocities subsonic in high-powered
guns. Sonic crack from the pellet as it moves with supersonic speed
also makes the shot louder sometimes making it possible to be mistaken
for firearm discharge and drawing unwanted attention. Many shooters
have found that velocities in the 800–900 ft/s (240–270 m/s) range
offer an ideal balance between power and pellet stability."

"In the 17th century, air guns, in calibers .30–.51, were used to hunt
big game deer and wild boar. These air rifles were charged using a pump
to fill an air reservoir and gave velocities from 650 to 1,000 feet per
second (200–300 m/s). They were also used in warfare; the most famous
example is the Girandoni Military Repeating Air rifle. "

----------------
"Larry W" wrote in message ...

Not talking about powder-operated fasteners here, but let's consider.
As
a previous poster pointed out, a nail gun can drive a (say) 10d nail
through 3 inches of wood. You know what? in my younger and healthier
days, I could take a framing hammer, and after a few setup taps, also
drive a 10d nail through 3 inches of wood in a single hit, too.

So, it must stand to reason then, that if the nail gun can kill at
a distance, I should be able to (with practice of course) toss that
nail
up in the air, strike it with my hammer as it falls, and propel it to
a lethal hit with similar performance to the nail gun, right? What do
you guys think? Somehow I don't think I'll be doing any hunting
with hammer and nails any time soon...

(I have no idea where that poster got the 100 mph figure though, which
comes to mere 150 or so feet per second, not a lot faster than what a
good major league pitcher can do to a baseball. Even the most anemic
modern pistol rounds move at more like 800 fps. Personally, I'd rather
get hit with a nail at 150 mph than a baseball at 100)


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.
org

On 1/25/2012 8:18 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:29:06 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
Snip





A nail won't sink full depth into a person's head when shot at
room's distance, I don't believe, but certainly will if held to the
persons head, safety-wise.

Well like yeah!





--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim),
when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

Venison burgers are just one way to enjoy the meat. :-)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim),
when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with coil
nailers.

John

On 1/26/2012 11:05 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim),
when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with coil
nailers.

John

One of those portable compressor tanks would provide would be a big
advantage over a long cord in case I have to shoot at it up close.

My hunting experiences have been few. But someday I'll tell you about
the one where "I saw a dog in the distance"--until it pranced away...
Friends refer to it as the "phantom buck".

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun
(trim), when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with
coil nailers.


And here I was trying to figure out how I was going to roll out all that air
hose to my tree stand...

--

-Mike-

"Bill" wrote in message
...
On 1/26/2012 11:05 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun (trim),
when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with coil
nailers.

John

One of those portable compressor tanks would provide would be a big
advantage over a long cord in case I have to shoot at it up close.

My hunting experiences have been few. But someday I'll tell you about the
one where "I saw a dog in the distance"--until it pranced away... Friends
refer to it as the "phantom buck".


I spent the summer in CO, WY, MT, ID and WA and saw wildlife at long
distances at times... In one case what I thought was an elk at about 600-700
yards revealed itself as a huge, fat, 4X4 mule deer when I heavily cropped
the digital photo. I had a 10.2X optical zoom lense installed on the camera
and neither it nor my 8X Zeiss monocular were powerful enough to reveal what
it really was... Another time what appeared to be a wolf at 400-500 yards
turned out to be the largest coyote I've ever seen... Misidentification on
strange turf is easy... perhaps inexcusable on your own turf but I've had
cow pies morph into woodchucks a few times. ;~)

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun
(trim), when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with
coil nailers.


And here I was trying to figure out how I was going to roll out all that
air hose to my tree stand...

Fill the tank to pressure at home and put it at the base of the tree...
easy. ;~)

On 1/26/2012 1:54 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun
(trim), when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with
coil nailers.


And here I was trying to figure out how I was going to roll out all
that air hose to my tree stand...

Fill the tank to pressure at home and put it at the base of the tree...
easy. ;~)

What about a scope? ; )

"Bill" wrote in message
...
On 1/26/2012 1:54 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Bill wrote in :

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/25/2012 05:51 PM, Bill wrote:


I haven't read all of the posts to this thread. But, partly due to
this thread, *I AM* going to be more careful with a nailgun
(trim), when I get one...

Better go to a nail gun safety class and get your permit to carry.


Maybe I'll apply for my Doe-permit next year!


Be sure to get stainless steel nails. You don't want regular steel
nails to start rusting while you're hunting for the deer.

The biggest hurdle will be the magazine limits.... especially with
coil nailers.


And here I was trying to figure out how I was going to roll out all
that air hose to my tree stand...

Fill the tank to pressure at home and put it at the base of the tree...
easy. ;~)

What about a scope? ; )

Some kind of aperture sight seems more reasonable given the limited
effective range... tape a straw on the nail gun?!

Dewalt seems to recognize how their nail guns are really used in the
field.

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/0...un-knocks.html

----------------
"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...
Some kind of aperture sight seems more reasonable given the limited
effective range... tape a straw on the nail gun?!