Just Wondering wrote:

It's not conspiracy to commit murder, it's a crime known as "felony
murder." Most states have a criminal statute that says if a person is
killed during the commission of a felony, the death is classified as a
murder, and every person involved in committing the felony is guilty
of the murder.

Yeah, the second guy needs to be punished for his involvement,
but I'm not sure a murder rap is the correct punishment.

That's the risk a person takes when deciding to commit a felony.

Good explanation. Let me expand it a bit:

A homicide (killing of one person by the actions of another) occurs during
the commission of a felony, the homicide is Felony Murder. All individuals
involved in the original felony are guilty of the crime. Note that the
person committing the homicide need not be the felon (as it was in this
case). In the extreme, during a riot, if a homicide occurs, ALL involved in
the riot are guilty of murder.

We had a case in my town, May 15-16, 1967, where 489 people were initially
charged with capital murder (killing of a police officer).

On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.

Nonsense. This scenario is far from from the "textbook case" ... read
the laws in the various states and you will quickly understand that this
particular scenario is neither a "textbook case", nor does it fit with
the crafted distinction in all States that have a felony murder statute.

What it is a textbook example of "legal fiction" ... look it up.


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Can't speak about a home invasion, but I personally have experienced, in
a large eastern center-city neighborhood, police no-show to a 911 call for
firearms being discharged on the street outside my (former) home.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"Leon" wrote
Does any one "just" own "a" gun? ;~)

Yep. A Stevens savage pump 12 gauge. Stored with trigger lock key handy
and loaded.

-- Jim in NC

In article ,
Swingman wrote:

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the
justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you
do see the stark difference?

You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke
felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.

Without being familiar with the specific laws where it occurred,
how can you say?


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 1/6/2012 6:34 AM, Leon wrote:

Does any one "just" own "a" gun? ;~)

I only own one ... a Remington Model 11 20 ga which my father gave me
when I was nine. No shells are in the house.

My house was burglarized back in the 70's. My deer rifle was locked and
loaded and I found it on couch, ready to shoot whoever walked in the
door during the burglary; my 45 pistol was stolen and used to rape my
neighbor across the street.

After that incident, I no longer keep ammunition in any house I've lived
in, you burglarize my home you need to bring your own.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 1/6/2012 4:55 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the
justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you
do see the stark difference?

You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke
felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.

Without being familiar with the specific laws where it occurred,
how can you say?

You're kidding right? Logic dictates that if they charged the dude, the
state where it happened must have a felony murder statue, eh?

All it takes for the rest of my statement is to be familiar with the
common law concept of _legal fiction_, which by its very definition
includes defying logic, common sense, and reality.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 11:15:04 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

And if he's outside - drag him inside!

And let the forensics guys prove you guilty without a doubt. That'll
instantly put the jury on their side and you in jail.

Actually, that was advice from a southern policeman about 50 years ago.
It wouldn't work today :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:34:44 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

The dude that went in got what he deserved. The other guy did not and
he should not be responsible for the fate of the first guy.

At least in some states, if you are involved in a felony and that felony
results in a death, you are responsible for that death. Period.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Leon wrote:



No ****! Why should the second guy be charged with murder?? No
murder was committed. Smells like a liberal. Someone is going to
pay for killing the worthless POC and we will never make it stick on
the young woman.

Better check your definitions.

Homicide = Killing of a human being by the actions of another
Murder = Homicide with premeditation and malice or homicide committed during
the commission of a felony. Note the person committing the homicide need not
be the felon (as in defense of self).

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:21:17 -0600, Leon wrote:

On 1/6/2012 9:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/6/2012 8:14 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:
http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-2679...ther-18-kills-
intruder-breaking-into-her-home-while-on-phone-with-911-27777235.html


None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner
will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Asshat lawyers ...



No ****! Why should the second guy be charged with murder?? No murder
was committed. Smells like a liberal. Someone is going to pay for
killing the worthless POC and we will never make it stick on the young
woman.

Leon, I hope you read the responses explaining what felony murder is.
You may not agree with it, but that's the law. You wanna' commit a
felony? Them's the risks you take.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 1/6/2012 5:19 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:21:17 -0600, Leon wrote:

On 1/6/2012 9:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/6/2012 8:14 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:
http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-2679...ther-18-kills-
intruder-breaking-into-her-home-while-on-phone-with-911-27777235.html


None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner
will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Asshat lawyers ...



No ****! Why should the second guy be charged with murder?? No murder
was committed. Smells like a liberal. Someone is going to pay for
killing the worthless POC and we will never make it stick on the young
woman.

Leon, I hope you read the responses explaining what felony murder is.
You may not agree with it, but that's the law. You wanna' commit a
felony? Them's the risks you take.


My bet is that Leon is well aware of what felony murder is. What he is
doing is reacting as a logical individual with common sense and respect
for reality would instinctively do when confronted with the practice of
legal fiction.

His recognition of this as being somehow not what the actual truth would
dictate, is as it should be, for the lawyers have perfected it in many
subtle ways to play loose with the legal system... just because it is
"legal" does not mean it is either right, moral, ethical, logical or, as
is evident in this particular case, even anywhere the truth of what
actually happened.

Your politicians are masters of the game and, along with the lawyers,
use it as their business model ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:15:37 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/6/2012 11:14 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:24:44 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

Didn't you listen to what she said in the video? Several large men, one
wielding a 12" knife, who broke her door down to get at her isn't
imminent threat of being harmed? Jesus, Han. Please buy a _clue_!

Hey Larry, I agree with you but I read it was 2 people - 2 ain't
several :-).

2 can appear as several if you are cross eyed or drunk. ;~)

Wouldn't 2 appear to be 4 then?

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

CW wrote:


You mean that the criminal didn't go down to a gun shop, fill out the
paperwork, wait several days, have a criminal background check done,
then come back and pick up his gun so he could go out and commit a
crime? Damn criminals, you pass all these laws and they still don't
do it right.

Nah - damned near impossible to get a pistol permit in NYC.

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:00:15 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/6/2012 6:34 AM, Leon wrote:

Does any one "just" own "a" gun? ;~)

I only own one ... a Remington Model 11 20 ga which my father gave me
when I was nine. No shells are in the house.

My house was burglarized back in the 70's. My deer rifle was locked and
loaded and I found it on couch, ready to shoot whoever walked in the
door during the burglary; my 45 pistol was stolen and used to rape my
neighbor across the street.

After that incident, I no longer keep ammunition in any house I've lived
in, you burglarize my home you need to bring your own.

That's entirely illogical, Swingy. Keep a loaded weapon (or ten) and
extra ammo for each in a handy safe if nothing else. With no ammo,
the gun is useless to YOU, too, in case of emergency. A gun safe
allows you to keep them around with no chance of the perps stealing
them.

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:17:15 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/6/2012 1:47 PM, Han wrote:

In NY City a group of 5 is being held, because 1 of them shot and killed
a policeman who had cornered him in the residence. The rest were
lookouts and/or otherwise accomplices. They are all facing charges of
murder of some kind now, although only 1 of them did the deed. He was
arrested and let go in spite of a NC/SC arrest warrant, but the down
south authorities didn't want to come and get him. Apparently that was
enough reason to let him free, damn the judge involved. Oh, yes, the gun
used was an illegal weapon.

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the
justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you
do see the stark difference?

You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke
felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.

Again, Asshat lawyers playing games with the legal system by shading
what should be the even hand of justice.

Shakespeare's Henry VI, part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
You said it, Dick!

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:56:07 -0800, "CW" wrote:



"Han" wrote in message ...

In NY City a group of 5 is being held, because 1 of them shot and killed
a policeman who had cornered him in the residence. The rest were
lookouts and/or otherwise accomplices. They are all facing charges of
murder of some kind now, although only 1 of them did the deed. He was
arrested and let go in spite of a NC/SC arrest warrant, but the down
south authorities didn't want to come and get him. Apparently that was
enough reason to let him free, damn the judge involved. Oh, yes, the gun
used was an illegal weapon.

================================================= =============

You mean that the criminal didn't go down to a gun shop, fill out the
paperwork, wait several days, have a criminal background check done, then
come back and pick up his gun so he could go out and commit a crime? Damn
criminals, you pass all these laws and they still don't do it right.

g OK, you understand that the criminals don't do that, so what
difference will gun registration make, Han? Why is that such a good
idea to you? I don't understand that. It only penalizes the GOOD
guys.

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

On 01/06/2012 03:23 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In , Bill wrote:

It doesn't sound good for mom to me. Granted she
defended herself, but now she has killed somebody.
The guy may have needed it, but I suspect that she
is pretty much traumatized over it. She certainly
didn't look very happy on the news last night.

Plus, having her husband die on xmas day, just a few days prior, she's
going to be in therapy for a while, I expect (if she can afford it.)

Having basically the whole country saying "well done", will probably help
a bit.


Heard her on the news today - no therapy required. One squared away
tough lady.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:44:07 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.

Nonsense. This scenario is far from from the "textbook case" ... read
the laws in the various states and you will quickly understand that this
particular scenario is neither a "textbook case", nor does it fit with
the crafted distinction in all States that have a felony murder statute.

What it is a textbook example of "legal fiction" ... look it up.

What is your suggested punishment for the 2nd idiot?

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

On 1/6/2012 6:39 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:00:15 -0600, wrote:

My house was burglarized back in the 70's. My deer rifle was locked and
loaded and I found it on couch, ready to shoot whoever walked in the
door during the burglary; my 45 pistol was stolen and used to rape my
neighbor across the street.

After that incident, I no longer keep ammunition in any house I've lived
in, you burglarize my home you need to bring your own.

That's entirely illogical, Swingy.

Only if you ignore the possibility of what would have happened had I
walked in from work, unsuspecting and unarmed, an hour earlier ... think
about it. I have ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 1/6/2012 4:52 PM, Morgans wrote:
"Leon" wrote
Does any one "just" own "a" gun? ;~)

Yep. A Stevens savage pump 12 gauge. Stored with trigger lock key handy
and loaded.

-- Jim in NC



Amateur

On 1/6/2012 6:54 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:44:07 -0600, wrote:

On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.

Nonsense. This scenario is far from from the "textbook case" ... read
the laws in the various states and you will quickly understand that this
particular scenario is neither a "textbook case", nor does it fit with
the crafted distinction in all States that have a felony murder statute.

What it is a textbook example of "legal fiction" ... look it up.

What is your suggested punishment for the 2nd idiot?

Involuntary manslaughter.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 1/6/2012 4:55 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the
justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you
do see the stark difference?

You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke
felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.

Without being familiar with the specific laws where it occurred,
how can you say?



Common sense.

You are riding in the car with a friend, he runs a red light gets hit
and is killed. You are charged with murder because you were riding with
out wearing a seat belt????


Now do you see the logic?

On 1/6/2012 5:16 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:



No ****! Why should the second guy be charged with murder?? No
murder was committed. Smells like a liberal. Someone is going to
pay for killing the worthless POC and we will never make it stick on
the young woman.

Better check your definitions.

Homicide = Killing of a human being by the actions of another
Murder = Homicide with premeditation and malice or homicide committed during
the commission of a felony. Note the person committing the homicide need not
be the felon (as in defense of self).



I under stand the laws say it is so but what moron made that law up.

On 1/6/2012 5:19 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:21:17 -0600, Leon wrote:

On 1/6/2012 9:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/6/2012 8:14 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Leon wrote:
http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-2679...ther-18-kills-
intruder-breaking-into-her-home-while-on-phone-with-911-27777235.html


None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner
will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Asshat lawyers ...



No ****! Why should the second guy be charged with murder?? No murder
was committed. Smells like a liberal. Someone is going to pay for
killing the worthless POC and we will never make it stick on the young
woman.

Leon, I hope you read the responses explaining what felony murder is.
You may not agree with it, but that's the law. You wanna' commit a
felony? Them's the risks you take.


I understand it is law in some places, makes the same sense as it being
unlawful to drive a car "with" a windshield.

Lets say you don't want to commit a felony murder but your buddy goes
nuts and gets killed. That is the risk with going out with a friend
with laws like this.

On 1/6/2012 4:26 PM, HeyBub wrote:
Just Wondering wrote:

It's not conspiracy to commit murder, it's a crime known as "felony
murder." Most states have a criminal statute that says if a person is
killed during the commission of a felony, the death is classified as a
murder, and every person involved in committing the felony is guilty
of the murder.

Yeah, the second guy needs to be punished for his involvement,
but I'm not sure a murder rap is the correct punishment.

That's the risk a person takes when deciding to commit a felony.

Good explanation. Let me expand it a bit:

A homicide (killing of one person by the actions of another) occurs during
the commission of a felony, the homicide is Felony Murder. All individuals
involved in the original felony are guilty of the crime. Note that the
person committing the homicide need not be the felon (as it was in this
case). In the extreme, during a riot, if a homicide occurs, ALL involved in
the riot are guilty of murder.

We had a case in my town, May 15-16, 1967, where 489 people were initially
charged with capital murder (killing of a police officer).


That that last sentence is what is wrong with that kind of mentality of
the law makers.

On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.


Precisely what crime did the other guy commit when his buddy was killed?
Standing out side is not a crime is it?

On 1/6/2012 6:54 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:44:07 -0600, wrote:

On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.

Nonsense. This scenario is far from from the "textbook case" ... read
the laws in the various states and you will quickly understand that this
particular scenario is neither a "textbook case", nor does it fit with
the crafted distinction in all States that have a felony murder statute.

What it is a textbook example of "legal fiction" ... look it up.

What is your suggested punishment for the 2nd idiot?

The prescribed punishment for what he confessed to, not a witch hunt
punishment. If this liberal law and lawyers thought that they had half
a chance of nailing the woman for the murder and not create public
outrage the other idiot would probably be sentenced with 90 days of
public service.

On 1/6/2012 6:36 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2012 4:55 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the
justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you
do see the stark difference?

You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke
felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.

Without being familiar with the specific laws where it occurred,
how can you say?



Common sense.

You are riding in the car with a friend, he runs a red light gets hit
and is killed. You are charged with murder because you were riding with
out wearing a seat belt????

No. because (a) the two of you were not involved in the commission of a
felony, and (b) it was not reasonable foreseeable that your failure to
buckle up would kill anyone.

Now, if you were committing an armed robbery of a convenience store, and
the store clerk shot and killed your partner in crime, you convicted of
murder for the death of your partner. But for the chain of the events
resulting from your decision to commit a felony, no death would have
occurred, and it is reasonably foreseeable that your intended victim
might try to defend himself. Your intent to commit a felony transfers to
an intent to be responsible for the results, including someone's
potential death. There's no problem with holding you responsible for
the consequences of that decision.

On 1/6/2012 4:44 PM, Larry W wrote:
Can't speak about a home invasion, but I personally have experienced, in
a large eastern center-city neighborhood, police no-show to a 911 call for
firearms being discharged on the street outside my (former) home.



Good thing no one killed, having personally experienced that crime you
would have been lawfully charged with murder.

On 1/6/2012 6:33 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:15:37 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/6/2012 11:14 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:24:44 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

Didn't you listen to what she said in the video? Several large men, one
wielding a 12" knife, who broke her door down to get at her isn't
imminent threat of being harmed? Jesus, Han. Please buy a _clue_!

Hey Larry, I agree with you but I read it was 2 people - 2 ain't
several :-).

2 can appear as several if you are cross eyed or drunk. ;~)

Wouldn't 2 appear to be 4 then?

yesss and that would then appear to be several. I'm trying to help you
out, work with me here.






--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

On 01/06/2012 06:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's
partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.


Precisely what crime did the other guy commit when his buddy was killed?
Standing out side is not a crime is it?

If he was the lookout to allow the crime to be committed, it was a crime.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 1/6/2012 7:59 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/6/2012 6:36 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2012 4:55 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I'm in the choir, and well aware of, and completely fine with, the
justification for felony murder charges in the above scenario, but you
do see the stark difference?

You really have to stretch logic, common sense and reality to invoke
felony murder charges in the case I remarked upon.

Without being familiar with the specific laws where it occurred,
how can you say?



Common sense.

You are riding in the car with a friend, he runs a red light gets hit
and is killed. You are charged with murder because you were riding with
out wearing a seat belt????

No. because (a) the two of you were not involved in the commission of a
felony, and (b) it was not reasonable foreseeable that your failure to
buckle up would kill anyone.


OK you are missing the point here. I understand that some believe that
this falls under a felony murder law and the implications that go with it.

I am saying that it is stupid and because your buddy gets killed while
committing a crime is not reason to be charged with murder. If you were
not there, there would be no murder. Your being there and him being
killed as a result of self defense does not make you a murderer.

You and your buddy go in to a bar, he carries in a concealed gun with
out a license and you don't know it. He gets into a fight pulls his gun
but gets shot by the bar tender and dies. You are charged with felony
murder. Does that sound about right?









Now, if you were committing an armed robbery of a convenience store, and
the store clerk shot and killed your partner in crime, you convicted of
murder for the death of your partner. But for the chain of the events
resulting from your decision to commit a felony, no death would have
occurred, and it is reasonably foreseeable that your intended victim
might try to defend himself. Your intent to commit a felony transfers to
an intent to be responsible for the results, including someone's
potential death. There's no problem with holding you responsible for the
consequences of that decision.

On 1/6/2012 8:13 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/06/2012 06:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's
partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.


Precisely what crime did the other guy commit when his buddy was killed?
Standing out side is not a crime is it?

If he was the lookout to allow the crime to be committed, it was a crime.


"If" Speculation, hopefully does not rule.

Still a murder did not happen! Him being there does not change that fact.

On 01/06/2012 07:26 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2012 8:13 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 01/06/2012 06:50 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/6/2012 4:28 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article_OmdncUKb_QjiJrSnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

None of the news reports have mentioned it, but the dead guy's
partner will
be charged with felony murder.

I have no sympathy for the dude, but that's the kind of ridiculous
overreaching by prosecutors that defies logic and commonsense.

Not in the slightest. If you commit a crime, and it causes someone to
die, that's murder. This is practically the textbook case.


Precisely what crime did the other guy commit when his buddy was killed?
Standing out side is not a crime is it?

If he was the lookout to allow the crime to be committed, it was a crime.


"If" Speculation, hopefully does not rule.

Still a murder did not happen! Him being there does not change that fact.


Got it.

"I was just there to say 'Hi'." "I had no idea the bitch would shoot
one of us just because we wanted a warm place to stay - and maybe a
little action. That's the only reason we kicked her door in. We always
carry a hunting knife while breaking in - whats the big deal, it was HIS
knife, not mine! I have no idea why she shot him, it could have been me
and that would ave been a bummer!"




--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 1/6/2012 4:52 PM, Morgans wrote:
"Leon" wrote
Does any one "just" own "a" gun? ;~)

Yep. A Stevens savage pump 12 gauge. Stored with trigger lock key handy
and loaded.

-- Jim in NC



Amateur
================================================== ==============
Got to say though that if one was to have only one gun, you can't do better
than a shotgun. Self defense, small game, big game. It'll do it all.
Doesn't lend itself to pocket carry, though.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

lots of snippage

OK you are missing the point here. I understand that some believe
that this falls under a felony murder law and the implications that go
with it.

I am saying that it is stupid and because your buddy gets killed while
committing a crime is not reason to be charged with murder. If you
were not there, there would be no murder. Your being there and him
being killed as a result of self defense does not make you a murderer.

Even in a liberal state (I think) like New York, they are charging the 4
friends of the perp who killed a policeman during the commission of a
burglary with murder of some kind. They were active participants in the
robbery, not just lookouts. Slightly, but perhaps significantly
different. sorry for the wrap
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/ny...oklyn-robbery-
a-police-dept-veteran-is-fatally-shot.html?scp=5&sq=figoski&st=cse
or
http://tinyurl.com/7dmxywd

You and your buddy go in to a bar, he carries in a concealed gun with
out a license and you don't know it. He gets into a fight pulls his
gun but gets shot by the bar tender and dies. You are charged with
felony murder. Does that sound about right?

This is different. The 2 go into the bar to have drinks, not to have a
fight.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

g OK, you understand that the criminals don't do that, so what
difference will gun registration make, Han? Why is that such a good
idea to you? I don't understand that. It only penalizes the GOOD
guys.

You're right, by now it may be too late to be really useful. Still, why
make it even easier for criminals to get guns?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 01/06/2012 07:58 PM, CW wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
...

On 1/6/2012 4:52 PM, Morgans wrote:
"Leon" wrote
Does any one "just" own "a" gun? ;~)

Yep. A Stevens savage pump 12 gauge. Stored with trigger lock key handy
and loaded.

-- Jim in NC



Amateur
================================================== ==============
Got to say though that if one was to have only one gun, you can't do
better than a shotgun. Self defense, small game, big game. It'll do it
all. Doesn't lend itself to pocket carry, though.

The Taurus Judge - .410 shotgun and .45 rounds in a revolver. Load up a
couple of snake shots followed by some .45 rounds in case the snake
shots fail to convince the snake you really don't want his company.

- Doug


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 01/06/2012 08:05 PM, Han wrote:
Larry wrote in
:

g OK, you understand that the criminals don't do that, so what
difference will gun registration make, Han? Why is that such a good
idea to you? I don't understand that. It only penalizes the GOOD
guys.

You're right, by now it may be too late to be really useful. Still, why
make it even easier for criminals to get guns?


The law has no meaning to criminals. They don't register their firearms.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill