My wife wants me to build yet another garden bench from Wood magazine. This
is a simple one compared to the Tudor I just completed.

I looked at what to build it from. The article suggested cedar from the
home store instead of from the usual hardwood outlets we use. So, off to
the local lumber yard. I priced the cedar and was just not happy with the
quality. On the way out, I stopped to look at the decking display they are
building. They have samples of all the material, wood and composites, on
display like a real deck. We were taken back by the appearance of the
mahogany deck. So, I priced out what I need for the project.

My local hardwood dealer lists 5/4 mahogany at $6.50 a board foot. The
lumber yard stuff works out to $2.87 bd. ft. To buy the same amount of wood
(includes a 4 x 4 x 8') would have been $100 more at the wood dealer.

Is this the same mahogany? It is clear, looks good, is planed and straight.
Not only was the price better, but they had no 4 x 4 x 8' in stock so he
gave me a 10' for the same price. I have enough left to make legs for a
small table. They also have Ipe for a little more. The 5/4 x 6 is $2.06 a
lineal foot.
--
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

My local hardwood dealer lists 5/4 mahogany at $6.50 a board foot. The
lumber yard stuff works out to $2.87 bd. ft. To buy the same amount of
wood
(includes a 4 x 4 x 8') would have been $100 more at the wood dealer.

Is this the same mahogany?

Hi Ed,

Philippine mahogany (luan) is often sold as "mahogany," with no further
identification. Other than for outdoor furniture, it's primary uses are
pallet wood and crate wood. It is functionally the same for outdoor
furniture, but doesn't have the patina properties (like turning a
jaw-dropping cinnamon brown after a year or two) of genuine Honduras or
Cuban mahogany. Is it a tad on the yellowish/creamy side, versus pink?

It should work fine as a garden bench.

Humbly submitted,
O'Deen

Why not build it out of IPE?? Would be heavier, but would last
forever

Since IPE has become available, I use in all my outdoor furniture
projects instead of cypress or teak or other woods

John

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 03:55:39 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


My wife wants me to build yet another garden bench from Wood magazine. This
is a simple one compared to the Tudor I just completed.

I looked at what to build it from. The article suggested cedar from the
home store instead of from the usual hardwood outlets we use. So, off to
the local lumber yard. I priced the cedar and was just not happy with the
quality. On the way out, I stopped to look at the decking display they are
building. They have samples of all the material, wood and composites, on
display like a real deck. We were taken back by the appearance of the
mahogany deck. So, I priced out what I need for the project.

My local hardwood dealer lists 5/4 mahogany at $6.50 a board foot. The
lumber yard stuff works out to $2.87 bd. ft. To buy the same amount of wood
(includes a 4 x 4 x 8') would have been $100 more at the wood dealer.

Is this the same mahogany? It is clear, looks good, is planed and straight.
Not only was the price better, but they had no 4 x 4 x 8' in stock so he
gave me a 10' for the same price. I have enough left to make legs for a
small table. They also have Ipe for a little more. The 5/4 x 6 is $2.06 a
lineal foot.

"Michele Olguin" wrote in message

Hi Ed,

Philippine mahogany (luan) is often sold as "mahogany," with no further
identification. Other than for outdoor furniture, it's primary uses are
pallet wood and crate wood. It is functionally the same for outdoor
furniture, but doesn't have the patina properties (like turning a
jaw-dropping cinnamon brown after a year or two) of genuine Honduras or
Cuban mahogany. Is it a tad on the yellowish/creamy side, versus pink?

It should work fine as a garden bench.

Humbly submitted,
O'Deen

OK, that makes some sense. Not the grade in fine furniture.

As for the color, it is bownish, darker than the luan plywood I have,
especially with oil on it. My plan is to finish it with Penofin. I'll have
to get a sample of the Honduran to compare the two.
Thanks,
Ed

"John" wrote in message
...
Why not build it out of IPE?? Would be heavier, but would last
forever

Since IPE has become available, I use in all my outdoor furniture
projects instead of cypress or teak or other woods

John

Thought about it briefly. He did not have the 4 x 4 I needed. I'm also
wondering how well I could cut a mortise in Ipe. Have you done that? I may
just try it on another project my wife wants but it may have to wait until
next spring.
Ed

Ipe is a superior outdoor wood with a 50 year life expectancy when used out
doors.



With that said, it will mortise just fine. USE SHARP TOOLS. Ipe is
approximately 3 times harder than Red Oak.

In article ,
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

My wife wants me to build yet another garden bench from Wood magazine. This
is a simple one compared to the Tudor I just completed.

I looked at what to build it from. The article suggested cedar from the
home store instead of from the usual hardwood outlets we use. So, off to
the local lumber yard. I priced the cedar and was just not happy with the
quality. On the way out, I stopped to look at the decking display they are
building. They have samples of all the material, wood and composites, on
display like a real deck. We were taken back by the appearance of the
mahogany deck. So, I priced out what I need for the project.

My local hardwood dealer lists 5/4 mahogany at $6.50 a board foot. The
lumber yard stuff works out to $2.87 bd. ft. To buy the same amount of wood
(includes a 4 x 4 x 8') would have been $100 more at the wood dealer.

Is this the same mahogany? It is clear, looks good, is planed and straight.
Not only was the price better, but they had no 4 x 4 x 8' in stock so he
gave me a 10' for the same price. I have enough left to make legs for a
small table. They also have Ipe for a little more. The 5/4 x 6 is $2.06 a
lineal foot.

The name 'mahogany' covers a multitude of sins.

Three broad categories:
"Honduran" mahogany, the somewhat reddish-hued brown that is the classic
material of the name.

"Philippine mahogany", (aka 'luan', and some similar species) often
slightly purplish to dark brown.

"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species) typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter (mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the weight,
per unit volume.


Pricing is all over the place, depending on which kind of 'mahogany' you're
dealing with.

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
rvers.com...
In article ,
.

"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species)
typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter (mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the weight,
per unit volume.

Is meranti the same as sapele?

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:23:38 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species) typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter (mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the weight,
per unit volume.

Almost balsa-like in some cases. I have seen meranti in a rack,
though, that had much darker, denser wood in with it. I assumed it was
heart wood. But it may have been something completely different?

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
"Philippine mahogany", (aka 'luan', and some similar species) often
slightly purplish to dark brown.


Sounds like the stuff I have.
Ed

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message ...

Is meranti the same as sapele?

No. Sapele has some pretense to be a furniture-grade timber (although
that ribbon effect is just too '70s for my tastes). Meranti is rough
stuff, fit only for "industrial" uses.

When I was a kid, my Dad had a haulage business. The wagon decking was
meranti; tongue and groove planks, hand-tongued with a Record 050
combination plane. Every time a careless crane driver dropped some
heavy piece of equipment and broke a plank, that meant a weekend
afternoon for me planing the edges in more meranti to replace it. The
stuff is wicked for splinters too, and they're guaranteed to turn
septic.

"African mahogany" probably has a wider range in the UK than the left
coast USA (but we hardly see asian timbers). We see a wide range of
such species, and you really have to see what you're getting before
you buy it. There's little consistency amongst species names,
especially for something like "utile" (creole for "passe partout").
Some are nice, some (like iroko) look nice but have a nasty tendency
for twist if you're not careful.


Central American mahoganies are another wide range of species. Don't
claim to have bought "a nice board of real mahogany" until you've been
to somewhere like Boston Museum of Fine Arts, or anywhere in Bath (UK)
and seen what the best timber of the 18th century looked like.

Anyone fancy a nice tool cabinet ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=3732592 022

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message ...
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
rvers.com...
In article ,
.

"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species)
typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter (mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the weight,
per unit volume.

Is meranti the same as sapele?

African 'mahoganies' used for marine plywood are usually Okoume
or Sapele. Okoume does NOT have the rot resistance of mahogany.
Dunno about Sapele but probably it does not either. Marine plywood
is not rot-resistant, though it is supposed to use a fungus-resistant
glue.

There are at least three genera of meranti, and I thought that
'Phillipine' Mahogany, not African, was of those merantis.

--

FF

Old Nick wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:23:38 +0000,
(Robert Bonomi) vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species) typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter (mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the weight,
per unit volume.

Almost balsa-like in some cases. I have seen meranti in a rack,
though, that had much darker, denser wood in with it. I assumed it was
heart wood. But it may have been something completely different?

There are hundreds of species of meranti ranging from some almost as
light and soft as balsa to others almost as hard and heavy as teak.

I was surprised to read here on rec.nahrm that lauan was sometimes
called 'white' mahogany since all the lauan plywood I had seen
was sort of a cocao color. Since then I have seen very pale
yellowish tan lauan locally. Lauan is a trade name for plywood
made from any of about 200 species of Asian/Pacific woods, mostly
from three genera of meranti.

--

FF

On 30 Jun 2004 06:50:59 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

hmmmmmmmmmm....and they all end up on the same shelf.

The hard stuff was a serious timber. I used to hunt it down each
weekend. $ for $ it _was_ value. now Pen.... pinus Radiata is the only
cheap wood..

God it's sad. 10 years ago I bemoaned the effort to pick up a few
pieces of really nice this or that. Now I don't have to...there is
none. The building trade used to grab the best jarrah. Now they all
use pine. in the most expensive houses theynuse properly seasoned,
dimensioned pine. The line between "quality" and "failure" gets
thinner.

I reckon in West Aust I should offer to reinstall all of the pergolas.
I would get some nice aged jarrah, and a lot of decent meranti. It had
poor rot resistance, but was used in some previous building boom. It
was a beautiful timber then, for internal use.

Sorry. But anyone that says there is not a disaster in the making need
only look to quality. It's the first to go. And that is not an
elitist, but a realist comment.

Look at English for instance. I started a sentence with and. G

Seriously, I was at the butcher's the other day, and we were joking
about being 21. The woman behind the counter sadi "Would you want to
be 21 again?" and I tried the old "Well if I knew then what I know
now" stuff. But she was serious. What's ahead?

Sorry, again.

There are hundreds of species of meranti ranging from some almost as
light and soft as balsa to others almost as hard and heavy as teak.

I was surprised to read here on rec.nahrm that lauan was sometimes
called 'white' mahogany since all the lauan plywood I had seen
was sort of a cocao color. Since then I have seen very pale
yellowish tan lauan locally. Lauan is a trade name for plywood
made from any of about 200 species of Asian/Pacific woods, mostly
from three genera of meranti.

In article s.com,
Robert Bonomi wrote:

The name 'mahogany' covers a multitude of sins.

Three broad categories:
"Honduran" mahogany, the somewhat reddish-hued brown that is the classic
material of the name.

"Philippine mahogany", (aka 'luan', and some similar species) often
slightly purplish to dark brown.

"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species) typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter (mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the weight,
per unit volume.



Hi,

I'm a long-time lurker, and am sorry to make a first post under these
circumstances, but there are some important errors here that need to be
corrected.

The "classic" mahogany is not "Honduran Mahogany", but rather a now
virtually extinct species often called "Cuban Mahogany" (Swietenia
mahogoni of the family Meliaceae). My understanding is that one simply
cannot (at least legally) acquire non-recycled mahogany on the open
market.

Honduran Mahogany (aka "South American Mahogany") is a related, but
definitely distinct species (Swietenia macrophylla). This is the
closest any currently available wood gets genetically to "classic"
mahogany.

African Mahogany (Khaya ivorensis, Khaya anthotheca, and Khaya
nyasica) is also related to "classic" mahogany, but is quite different
in appearance and characteristics. It most definitely is not "meranti"
(see bolow), and is quite dense (32-34lbs per cubic foot) and hard. It
is readily available on the open market.

"Philippine Mahogany" is a meaningles marketing term for a large number
of woods in the Shorea species. True names for these woods include
Meranti and Luan. Meranti, in particular, comes in a range of colors
(pale yellow to dark purplish red) with physical characteristics that
differ significantly (for example, the relatively more dense, and more
rot-resistant woods tend to be of the dark red variety, often marketed
as "Dark Red Meranti", or, gasp, "Philippine Mahogany"). In general,
while Meranti woods can be heavy (up to about 36.bs per cubic foot), it
is not as hard or strong as Honduran or African Mahogany. Along with
African Mahogany, it is also less rot resistant than Honduran Mahogany.

It would probably be good for someone to do a write-up on the various
"mahoganies" for inclusion in a (the?) newsgroup FAQ.

Btw, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the members of this
newsgroup for being such an incredible resource.

Kitto

My interest is in Sapele. I saw some tables in New Hope last year that were
made of Sapele and Maple. They were gorgeous. I have a project in mind using
Sapele. I found that it is commonly called African Mahogany. Apparently,
several species are called African Mahogany.

I have been told that it is difficult to plane with hand tools because of
interlaced grain patterns. Is it more difficult than other woods such as
Mesquite?.



"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
.

"African mahogany", (aka 'meranti', and other similar species)
typically,
a light, almost golden, brown. this is _much_ lighter
(mass-wise)
than the other 'mahogany' woods. Like only 2/3 to 1/2 the
weight,
per unit volume.

Is meranti the same as sapele?

African 'mahoganies' used for marine plywood are usually Okoume
or Sapele. Okoume does NOT have the rot resistance of mahogany.
Dunno about Sapele but probably it does not either. Marine plywood
is not rot-resistant, though it is supposed to use a fungus-resistant
glue.

There are at least three genera of meranti, and I thought that
'Phillipine' Mahogany, not African, was of those merantis.

--

FF

Lowell Holmes wrote...
I have been told that it is difficult to plane with hand tools because of
interlaced grain patterns. Is it more difficult than other woods such as
Mesquite?.

Yes, in my opinion, but Sapele can be tamed. I have had to resort to
scraping on some particularly difficult pieces, but a well-tuned smoother
has usually been sufficient. Chip-out can be a problem when power-
planing.

Jim

I had to do some of the same on a recent mesquite project. It sounds like
something I can do. :-)

My only other question is how to insure I get the Sapele instead of some
other wood sold as African Mahogany. I saw a bin with wood that looked like
Luan and other wood that was a red color. The light color would be very
boring.

I think I'll go buy a small piece and make a box to learn about the
characteristics before planning a more elaborate project with it.


"Jim Wilson" wrote in message
k.net...
Lowell Holmes wrote...
I have been told that it is difficult to plane with hand tools because
of
interlaced grain patterns. Is it more difficult than other woods such
as
Mesquite?.

Yes, in my opinion, but Sapele can be tamed. I have had to resort to
scraping on some particularly difficult pieces, but a well-tuned smoother
has usually been sufficient. Chip-out can be a problem when power-
planing.

Jim

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message ...
My interest is in Sapele. I saw some tables in New Hope last year that were
made of Sapele and Maple. They were gorgeous. I have a project in mind using
Sapele. I found that it is commonly called African Mahogany. Apparently,
several species are called African Mahogany.

I have been told that it is difficult to plane with hand tools because of
interlaced grain patterns. Is it more difficult than other woods such as
Mesquite?.



I haven't worked with it, but have sen some kayaks with sapele marine
plywood made by Chesapeake light craft. Very attractive.

--

FF

ddoggerel schreef
I'm a long-time lurker, and am sorry to make a first post under these
circumstances, but there are some important errors here that need to be
corrected.

The "classic" mahogany is not "Honduran Mahogany", but rather a now
virtually extinct species often called "Cuban Mahogany" (Swietenia
mahogoni of the family Meliaceae). My understanding is that one simply
cannot (at least legally) acquire non-recycled mahogany on the open
market.

+ + +
Just about right, except that an even beter grade of wood from the same
species came from Haiti, before Cuba came into the picture
+ + +

Honduran Mahogany (aka "South American Mahogany") is a related, but
definitely distinct species (Swietenia macrophylla). This is the closest any
currently available wood gets genetically to "classic" mahogany.

+ + +
Pretty much spot on
+ + +

African Mahogany (Khaya ivorensis, Khaya anthotheca, and Khaya
nyasica) is also related to "classic" mahogany, but is quite different
in appearance and characteristics. It most definitely is not "meranti"
(see bolow), and is quite dense (32-34lbs per cubic foot) and hard. It
is readily available on the open market.

+ + +
You forgot Khaya grandifoliola and Khaya senegalensis (the latter is
somewhat heavier 50lbs/ft3 as compared to 35-48 for the other species).

There is also quite a bit of other stuff from Africa marketed as mahogany,
and sapele, sipo/utile, kosipo are indeed related to the real mahogany.
+ + +

"Philippine Mahogany" is a meaningles marketing term for a large number
of woods in the Shorea species. True names for these woods include
Meranti and Luan. Meranti, in particular, comes in a range of colors
(pale yellow to dark purplish red) with physical characteristics that
differ significantly (for example, the relatively more dense, and more
rot-resistant woods tend to be of the dark red variety, often marketed
as "Dark Red Meranti", or, gasp, "Philippine Mahogany"). In general,
while Meranti woods can be heavy (up to about 36.bs per cubic foot), it
is not as hard or strong as Honduran or African Mahogany. Along with
African Mahogany, it is also less rot resistant than Honduran Mahogany.

+ + +
Shorea species can be quite heavy (easily over 62.5lbs/ft3). These day the
Philippines don't export wood anymore. Note that all Shorea species are from
SE Asia and accompanying Pacific, never from Africa. Trade names include
lauan, seraya, meranti, balau, bangkirai, etc
+ + +

It would probably be good for someone to do a write-up on the various
"mahoganies" for inclusion in a (the?) newsgroup FAQ.

+ + +
Sounds like work ;-)
If ever my book is published I will be very clear on the topic, but pictures
are everything here.
+ + +

Btw, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the members of this
newsgroup for being such an incredible resource.

Kitto

ddoggerel schreef
I'm a long-time lurker, and am sorry to make a first post under these
circumstances, but there are some important errors here that need to be
corrected.

The "classic" mahogany is not "Honduran Mahogany", but rather a now
virtually extinct species often called "Cuban Mahogany" (Swietenia
mahogoni of the family Meliaceae). My understanding is that one simply
cannot (at least legally) acquire non-recycled mahogany on the open
market.

+ + +
Just about right, except that an even beter grade of wood from the same
species came from Haiti, before Cuba came into the picture
+ + +

Honduran Mahogany (aka "South American Mahogany") is a related, but
definitely distinct species (Swietenia macrophylla). This is the closest any
currently available wood gets genetically to "classic" mahogany.

+ + +
Pretty much spot on
+ + +

African Mahogany (Khaya ivorensis, Khaya anthotheca, and Khaya
nyasica) is also related to "classic" mahogany, but is quite different
in appearance and characteristics. It most definitely is not "meranti"
(see bolow), and is quite dense (32-34lbs per cubic foot) and hard. It
is readily available on the open market.

+ + +
You forgot Khaya grandifoliola and Khaya senegalensis (the latter is
somewhat heavier 50lbs/ft3 as compared to 35-48 for the other species).

There is also quite a bit of other stuff from Africa marketed as mahogany,
and sapele, sipo/utile, kosipo are indeed related to the real mahogany.
+ + +

"Philippine Mahogany" is a meaningles marketing term for a large number
of woods in the Shorea species. True names for these woods include
Meranti and Luan. Meranti, in particular, comes in a range of colors
(pale yellow to dark purplish red) with physical characteristics that
differ significantly (for example, the relatively more dense, and more
rot-resistant woods tend to be of the dark red variety, often marketed
as "Dark Red Meranti", or, gasp, "Philippine Mahogany"). In general,
while Meranti woods can be heavy (up to about 36.bs per cubic foot), it
is not as hard or strong as Honduran or African Mahogany. Along with
African Mahogany, it is also less rot resistant than Honduran Mahogany.

+ + +
Shorea species can be quite heavy (easily over 62.5lbs/ft3). These day the
Philippines don't export wood anymore. Note that all Shorea species are from
SE Asia and accompanying Pacific, never from Africa. Trade names include
lauan, seraya, meranti, balau, bangkirai, etc
+ + +

It would probably be good for someone to do a write-up on the various
"mahoganies" for inclusion in a (the?) newsgroup FAQ.

+ + +
Sounds like work ;-)
If ever my book is published I will be very clear on the topic, but pictures
are everything here.
+ + +

Btw, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the members of this
newsgroup for being such an incredible resource.

Kitto