"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:19:34 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:
If you are serious about a good set of brad poing pits, "Colt" Twinland "5
STAR" brad point bits. The larger sizes used in a DP do not need a backer
board to prevent tear out on the back side.
Pricey but these actually come sharp to start with and are made of HSS.

Colt makes a less expensive bit but the "5 Star" bits are the best.

I have several and love them!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPGG9wCMLoc

Those look superb! Price isn't bad, either. http://fwd4.me/r9g
http://fwd4.me/r9h although some places are gouging $70 for 'em.


I started with a 3/8" bit and true as stated I drilled through several
pieces of wood including plywood. All were elevated above the DP table and
none tore out on the bottom as the bit exited. The hole was clean on both
sides. Several months ago Woodcraft closed out odd sized 5 Star bits and I
scooped a bunch up at about 1/3 retail.

The smaller sizes, some where around 1/8" and smaller did not fair as well
but the big bits yield Forstner bit type results.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:48:01 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:19:34 -0600,
wrote:
If you are serious about a good set of brad poing pits, "Colt" Twinland
"5
STAR" brad point bits. The larger sizes used in a DP do not need a
backer
board to prevent tear out on the back side.
Pricey but these actually come sharp to start with and are made of HSS.

Colt makes a less expensive bit but the "5 Star" bits are the best.

I have several and love them!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPGG9wCMLoc

Those look superb! Price isn't bad, either. http://fwd4.me/r9g
http://fwd4.me/r9h although some places are gouging $70 for 'em.

Ahem... You're perfectly aware, I presume, that those are not the Colt
Twinland Brad point bits from their "Five Star" collection. This may be
akin to comparing wine by Earnest and Julio Gallo with that of Chateau
Lafite Rothschild. I think I've seen posts from E and J in this forum!

Well, they are Twinland and I could have sworn they were the 5-star,
too. I searched for Colt Twinland. Hmm...maybe I didn't search for
5-star. They're the $80 set. My bad.

Be careful with Twinland, as I mentioned and quoted, they have to be the "5
Star" bits.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
On 12/3/2010 9:19 AM, Leon wrote:

If you are serious about a good set of brad poing pits, "Colt" Twinland
"5
STAR" brad point bits. The larger sizes used in a DP do not need a
backer
board to prevent tear out on the back side.
Pricey but these actually come sharp to start with and are made of HSS.

Colt makes a less expensive bit but the "5 Star" bits are the best.

I have several and love them!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPGG9wCMLoc

That was quite informative about the topic. Thank you for posting.

Bill


Woodcraft sells them and one at a time, buy "one" that you would use the
most, for me it is the 3/8" bit. That bit will not blow your budget and
will prove to you why they are the best. If you think you would like a set
you can go that route afterward.

You guys, go ahead and use your shiny high dollar bits. I am sure they
are of much higher quality than my cheapo HF set. OTOH, I've used the
cheap set to drill hundreds of holes for dowels, overlapping holes to
be cleaned up with a chisel for mortises, and many other purposes and
never had a problem. We're talking about drilling holes in WOOD after all.

--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

"Larry W" wrote in message
...
You guys, go ahead and use your shiny high dollar bits. I am sure they
are of much higher quality than my cheapo HF set. OTOH, I've used the
cheap set to drill hundreds of holes for dowels, overlapping holes to
be cleaned up with a chisel for mortises, and many other purposes and
never had a problem. We're talking about drilling holes in WOOD after all.

That is like saying you've been enjoying sex all alone, so no need to invite
a woman.

I'm sure the cheap sets make holes, but the higher priced ones make them
faster, cleaner, better chip clearing. But if you're happy, that's all that
counts.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
This seems like a good place to ask this newbe question:

It you bore a hole with a 7/32" brad point bit, is it reasonable to expect
to be able to tap a 1/4" dowel into it? I have to assume this is why they
make 7/32". Is the dowel generally chosen to be of soft wood to
accommodate this?

Bill

It is reasonable to think this however in reality.....NO. To those that
have done this before it is reasonable to assume that a 1/4" "store bought"
dowel will either slide through or have to be pounded through a 1/4" hole.
My experience has shown that dowels are not precicely made and their
diameters differ slightly. Further, dowels are available in a wide variety
of woods, birch, maple, walnut, and oak be the most common, some are hard
some are softer.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Larry W" wrote in message
...
You guys, go ahead and use your shiny high dollar bits. I am sure they
are of much higher quality than my cheapo HF set. OTOH, I've used the
cheap set to drill hundreds of holes for dowels, overlapping holes to
be cleaned up with a chisel for mortises, and many other purposes and
never had a problem. We're talking about drilling holes in WOOD after all.

That is like saying you've been enjoying sex all alone, so no need to invite
a woman.

I'm sure the cheap sets make holes, but the higher priced ones make them
faster, cleaner, better chip clearing. But if you're happy, that's all that
counts.




Your last point is by far the most important. After all, with the money I
saved by buying cheapo brad point bits, I'm sure I was able to purchase
SOMETHING that you don't have!


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

I"d almost bet they were made in China, just like the $1 bits.

I thought so too. But I took another look at the picture of the item.
Near the top of each bit it say "Germany". A family member wanted to
buy me something for Christmas, but I can't send them to Lee Valley.

Bill

------

Have you been in a Lee Valley store lately? They are going downhill fast.
They are starting to sell some more junk now. Coffee cup lid rollers? Key
chains? Balsam wood airplanes? Chinese made electronic weather stations
that are sold at Zellers or Walmart? They've really expanded their stores
now and unfortunately to pay the bills they have to sell cheaper Chinese
stuff.

Still we got all our new cabinet knobs there a couple of months ago but the
level of junk they carry is increasing.

Staff behind the counter are still as wonderful as you remember them though.
That hasn't changed, at least yet.

On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 23:12:47 -0500, The Henchman wrote:

Have you been in a Lee Valley store lately? They are going downhill
fast. They are starting to sell some more junk now. Coffee cup lid
rollers? Key chains? Balsam wood airplanes? Chinese made electronic
weather stations that are sold at Zellers or Walmart? They've really
expanded their stores now and unfortunately to pay the bills they have
to sell cheaper Chinese stuff.

The catalogs are just as bad. Some years ago I complained to a friend
about Lands End not carrying the sailing supplies they used to. He
replied that all stores eventually morph into clothing stores. Since
then I've concluded he was right. Lee Valley is just in the early stages
of that transition :-).



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 2010-12-05 14:49:43 -0500, Larry Blanchard said:

The catalogs are just as bad. Some years ago I complained to a friend
about Lands End not carrying the sailing supplies they used to. He
replied that all stores eventually morph into clothing stores. Since
then I've concluded he was right. Lee Valley is just in the early
stages of that transition :-).

Land's End was sold to Sears. That tell you anything? Maybe not, since
Sears now sells Land End clothing in the stores. That's a fairly
significant upgrade.

FInancial goals change for retailers. Part of it is debt service;
"improving shareholder value" is a larger part. In times of financial
change (read: stress), stores will change their product mix, number of
products, stock levels, and probably will consolidate vendors. (DAGS
"category manager")

Several years ago, I ended a four year stint in retail Hell for a
big-box. In returning to the store (as a customer) over the intervening
years, I've noticed those changes in action: the gondolas are no longer
topped with risers holding additional stock, there are few products in
each department, there are cheaper products (and, to differentiate,
less expensive products as well) being stocked.

I can only guess at the net change in store dolllar volume, but my
guess would be it would be trending down once you adjust for the effect
of additional big-box stores arriving in the area.

Back to your original comment about Sears and to the Hentchman's rant
about Lee Valley... They are adjusting to a changed market. And it youu
went by the catalog, you'd also thing that Rockler was supporting
itself on the sale of coffee mugs and Bench Cookies. (I can personally
assure you that's not been their total income, though.)

"The Henchman" wrote in message
...
I"d almost bet they were made in China, just like the $1 bits.

I thought so too. But I took another look at the picture of the item.
Near the top of each bit it say "Germany". A family member wanted to
buy me something for Christmas, but I can't send them to Lee Valley.

Bill

------

Have you been in a Lee Valley store lately? They are going downhill fast.
They are starting to sell some more junk now. Coffee cup lid rollers?
Key chains? Balsam wood airplanes? Chinese made electronic weather
stations that are sold at Zellers or Walmart? They've really expanded
their stores now and unfortunately to pay the bills they have to sell
cheaper Chinese stuff.

Still we got all our new cabinet knobs there a couple of months ago but
the level of junk they carry is increasing.

Staff behind the counter are still as wonderful as you remember them
though. That hasn't changed, at least yet.


I'd believe that to be true of Garret Wade, but I don't see much difference
in LV. Of course, I've never been in one of the stores. Get the catalog, use
the web site and see a booth at a WW show now and then.

--
If your name is No, I voted for you - more than once ...

On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 22:55:50 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote

Lee valley has ALL their stuff made for them, last I heard. They don't
have the forges etc required to manufacture the stuff. It will be made
for them, to their spec - not relabelled from someone else.

Define "made for them". Lee Valley does not manufacture, but they have a
division that does.
From the Lee Valley web site
Veritas® Tools (our research, development and manufacturing division)
continues to be one of the most innovative hand-tool design firms in the
world, producing unique and high-quality products.

Like every manufacturer, some parts are usually made by others. I've never
been to their facilities to see what they have and what they buy, but I'd
guess a mix. Companies that maker heaters or air conditioners buy motors.
GM buys tons of parts, etc. Veritas my be buying forgings.


Lea Valley / Veriras DOES do the final machining on all their planes
and many other tools, but also subs considerable product. Anything
with the Veritas name is DESIGNED by Veritas/Lee Valley and a fair
amount of the precision finishing and assembly is also done in house.

It will all be unique to them, not a copy of someone else's stuff
although some is a specific rework of another company's product to
make it their own (apparently their brad point bits which are high
quality product modified to make them better - to Veritas design
standards)

I guess in todays world that IS manufacturing.

My apologies

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4cf873b1$0$2180
:

"Bill" wrote:

Was looking for a set of decent brad point drill bits. I found this
Craftsman set:
-----------------------
Mutually exclusive terms.

When you going to get out of the cheap seats.

You want brad point drills, try McFeelys, WW Grainger (Same company
these days), McMaster-Carr, Rockler, Lee Valley, etc.

Notice Home Depot & Lowes didn't make the list.

I bought a set from Rockler several years ago with 1/4" hex shanks. Most
of them are fine, but I tied the 3/16" for the first time a few months
ago, and it has the shank on crooked. They no longer sell that set, so I
can't get a replacement. I used to think much better of Rockler. I am
not amused....

Doug White

Doug White wrote:
"Lew wrote in news:4cf873b1$0$2180
:

"Bill" wrote:

Was looking for a set of decent brad point drill bits. I found this
Craftsman set:
-----------------------
Mutually exclusive terms.

When you going to get out of the cheap seats.

You want brad point drills, try McFeelys, WW Grainger (Same company
these days), McMaster-Carr, Rockler, Lee Valley, etc.

Notice Home Depot& Lowes didn't make the list.

I bought a set from Rockler several years ago with 1/4" hex shanks. Most
of them are fine, but I tied the 3/16" for the first time a few months
ago, and it has the shank on crooked. They no longer sell that set, so I
can't get a replacement. I used to think much better of Rockler. I am
not amused....

Doug White

You are (at least) the 2nd person I've seen make that comment about the
Rockler bits. I don't want to be not amused either. Thanks.
Bill

On Dec 2, 9:03*pm, wrote:

*At less than a quater each, average, they are likely high quality
Chinese bits. The TiN coating just makes them LOOK expensive *and/or
good.

I bought some TiN coated bits from Crappy Tire a few years ago. Like
you say, it just makes them look expensive. They were obviously made
from pot metal: did not stay sharp after drilling in wood and bent
easily. The TiN coating also wore off quickly. Beware of crappy
Chinese bits.

(Beware of Chinese anything -- you never know about the quality
control, even in the best brands-- I just had to toss out a Chinese-
made Makita 4-inch angle grinder a couple of weeks ago after very
little use. Somehow, they are not very good at keeping the smoke in
and it escaped from my grinder motor when I was cutting some 1/8"
steel. I went & got me another Makita --5" this time--that said
"Assembled in the USA", but I almost got the German Hilti for only a
couple of hundred bucks more.)

Luigi

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:58:51 -0800 (PST), Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

On Dec 2, 9:03*pm, wrote:

*At less than a quater each, average, they are likely high quality
Chinese bits. The TiN coating just makes them LOOK expensive *and/or
good.

I bought some TiN coated bits from Crappy Tire a few years ago. Like
you say, it just makes them look expensive. They were obviously made
from pot metal: did not stay sharp after drilling in wood and bent
easily. The TiN coating also wore off quickly. Beware of crappy
Chinese bits.

(Beware of Chinese anything -- you never know about the quality
control, even in the best brands-- I just had to toss out a Chinese-
made Makita 4-inch angle grinder a couple of weeks ago after very
little use. Somehow, they are not very good at keeping the smoke in
and it escaped from my grinder motor when I was cutting some 1/8"
steel. I went & got me another Makita --5" this time--that said
"Assembled in the USA", but I almost got the German Hilti for only a
couple of hundred bucks more.)

Weegee, did you cover up the warning label on top of the gearbox?
Yeah, the one which states, categorically, "DO NOT SIT HERE".
I'm sorry for your loss, nonetheless.

--
Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:58:51 -0800 (PST), Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

On Dec 2, 9:03Â*pm, wrote:

Â*At less than a quater each, average, they are likely high quality
Chinese bits. The TiN coating just makes them LOOK expensive Â*and/or
good.

I bought some TiN coated bits from Crappy Tire a few years ago. Like
you say, it just makes them look expensive. They were obviously made
from pot metal: did not stay sharp after drilling in wood and bent
easily. The TiN coating also wore off quickly. Beware of crappy
Chinese bits.

(Beware of Chinese anything -- you never know about the quality
control, even in the best brands-- I just had to toss out a Chinese-
made Makita 4-inch angle grinder a couple of weeks ago after very
little use. Somehow, they are not very good at keeping the smoke in
and it escaped from my grinder motor when I was cutting some 1/8"
steel. I went & got me another Makita --5" this time--that said
"Assembled in the USA", but I almost got the German Hilti for only a
couple of hundred bucks more.)

Luigi
Boss I worked for in a service station as a kid bought a set of
whiz-bang drill bits from a 'wagon jobber" Pretty expensive bits -
were supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread.

When the guy came by a month or so later to see if he could sell us
some more the boss told him they were GREAT - if all you needed them
for was "drilling arse-holes in balsa-wood teddy bears."

On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:59:46 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:58:51 -0800 (PST), Luigi Zanasi
wrote:

On Dec 2, 9:03*pm, wrote:

*At less than a quater each, average, they are likely high quality
Chinese bits. The TiN coating just makes them LOOK expensive *and/or
good.

I bought some TiN coated bits from Crappy Tire a few years ago. Like
you say, it just makes them look expensive. They were obviously made
from pot metal: did not stay sharp after drilling in wood and bent
easily. The TiN coating also wore off quickly. Beware of crappy
Chinese bits.

(Beware of Chinese anything -- you never know about the quality
control, even in the best brands-- I just had to toss out a Chinese-
made Makita 4-inch angle grinder a couple of weeks ago after very
little use. Somehow, they are not very good at keeping the smoke in
and it escaped from my grinder motor when I was cutting some 1/8"
steel. I went & got me another Makita --5" this time--that said
"Assembled in the USA", but I almost got the German Hilti for only a
couple of hundred bucks more.)

Luigi
Boss I worked for in a service station as a kid bought a set of
whiz-bang drill bits from a 'wagon jobber" Pretty expensive bits -
were supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread.

When the guy came by a month or so later to see if he could sell us
some more the boss told him they were GREAT - if all you needed them
for was "drilling arse-holes in balsa-wood teddy bears."

HAR! So, did the boss get his money back?
or
Did he forcefully return them to the vendor without receipt while
physically showing the vendor what he meant about the balsa teddy?
(ouch)

--
Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!