I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
mechanics of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken
apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed.
Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner
would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
materials and machine the parts.

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

Thanks for listening
Marty

Try a program named Desktop pro 2000, i use it here to design and create
kitchen cupboards ect ect You can scale your creations, store them and
compare with your designs.It takes a few hours to get the main idea, but
once you have crossed that hurdle it is smooth sailing

Peter
Queensland, Australia
"Marty" wrote in message
...

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects
and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at
times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics
of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs
to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart"
and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also
the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be
nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
materials and machine the parts.

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more features
that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

Thanks for listening
Marty

On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found
that a necessity.

Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25
cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the
individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often
"copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on it
temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is
not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wanting
to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components
that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the
drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version
offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included
"Layout" module.

Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not
included in the free version.

Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems
to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
mechanics of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become
proficient enough with the program to do it.

In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!

(Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them myself
using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin
ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).

For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken
apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file.

Again, "Scenes" and "Layers" are what you want to learn how to wield.

Once you become proficient with these, and with thought and commonsense
application of these two features, you can do exactly the above.

I could
then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed.
Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner
would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
materials and machine the parts.

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with only
one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient
with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".

Each of my individual kitchen design files often have 20 or more layers
and dozens of scenes, all in the same file.

AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. *I will continue to use Sketchup as
it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

Thanks for listening
Marty

I have worked in the CAD software business for 20 years at my real job
and have expertise in and have worked for some of the biggest CAD
companies in this industry. Sketchup is by far the best at what it
does. However, it is not really production CAD and especially as it
relates to making drawings. I can create models in many of the most
expensive 3D modelers and I prefer to use Sketchup for my own home
work. However, I also use AutoCAD to make all my 2D drawings. I re-
draw every part, measured from the Sketchup drawing. I believe I could
save directly to AutoCAD from Pro Sketchup but I just use free version
and can likely draw 2D faster in AutoCAD than the copy process would
take.

For your case, you should make all pieces into components. The use the
Outliner Tool under the Window menu to control the visibility of
individual or groups fo components for creating drawings. I don't know
if dimensions and text can have visibility controlled with Outliner
because I don't do any of that in Sketchup, just models but if they
can, then you have a total solution.

The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with
only
one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient
with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".


Super cool info. I just dove in headlong to SU a few years back and
never looked for such typical tools. I just did modeling. Glad to hear
they are there.
Thx!

On 9/15/2010 3:04 PM, Swingman wrote:

AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

Instead of just talk/BS, here's "some show and tell" regarding the use
of layers (30 or so) and scenes (20+) with a complicated model with many
parts and dimensions:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Kitc...es-Example.zip

FWIW, this is an actual kitchen design model, used for the both the
clients input during the design stage, and for shop drawings for actual
build ... it is scheduled to start build/installation very shortly ...
it is not a drill.

(There is a color version, but I prefer the non-color for viewing)

CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser
in any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

Let me know here of any download problems.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Marty" wrote in message
...

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects
and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at
times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

With anything worth learning it takes time, your mileage may vary. I came
from AutoCAD LT, thought it was easy to learn but learning Sketchup was damn
easy. It all depends on your drafting and CAD background. I have quite a
bit of experience with several CAD and CAD style programs, Sketch us
definately worth learning.




My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics
of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

If you properly make each part of the project into a component, exploding
takes little time. I typically can manually explode a 100 + part project in
a couple of minutes. Keep in mind that you do no have to dimension you
parts to understand their actual sizes. There are numerous plugins for
Sketchup that will determine the number of pieces and the sizes each needs
to be, I use Cutlist 4.0 as that plugin and that will give you what you
need to know. However I take it a step farther and use Cutlist 4.0 to creat
an import file for Cutlist Plus for determined cut lists and cost and sale
reports.
You need not explode a project for Cutlist 4.0 to do it's magic.




For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs
to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart"
and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

See above



At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also
the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be
nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

You do not need seperate files, you simply need to copy what you want, to
another area of the drawing. You have an infinite drawing area with each
file.



I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
materials and machine the parts.

See above, what manipulations are you talking about?

It does help to give each component a material name to seperate components
make of different materials.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 9/15/2010 3:04 PM, Swingman wrote:


CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser in
any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.



Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the past
version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to Sketchup
7.0.

On 9/15/2010 3:07 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I have worked in the CAD software business for 20 years at my real job
and have expertise in and have worked for some of the biggest CAD
companies in this industry. Sketchup is by far the best at what it
does. However, it is not really production CAD and especially as it
relates to making drawings. I can create models in many of the most
expensive 3D modelers and I prefer to use Sketchup for my own home
work. However, I also use AutoCAD to make all my 2D drawings. I re-
draw every part, measured from the Sketchup drawing. I believe I could
save directly to AutoCAD from Pro Sketchup but I just use free version
and can likely draw 2D faster in AutoCAD than the copy process would
take.

The Pro version indeed addresses these issues with "Layout".

However, I too have used various 2D CAD programs down through the years
(SU is not really "CAD" per se, it is 3D modeling software), and indeed
find the SU/Layout combination a bit more fussy when doing a full blown
set of _2D_ construction drawings ... although I have done just that as
recently as last year for a house I completed last year.

I think that is probably more of a lack of operator proficiency on my
part with Layout, as it is indeed another learning curve and I don't use
it on a daily basis.

All said and done however, SU has been more than worth that bit of fuss
for the _3D_ side of things.

... what you make on the banana's, you lose on the oranges.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message


CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser in
any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the past
version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to Sketchup
7.0.

You can indeed "save as" a file in any past version from SketchUp 8.

AAMOF, uninstalled 7 when I installed 8 (left the material and
components folders because there are some nice ones with previous SU
versions that are no longer in version 8).

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Marty" wrote in message
...

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects
and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at
times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics
of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs
to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart"
and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also
the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be
nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?


If you are really interested in the designers improving the product, may I
suggest posting your comment directly to Google, in addition to here.
Posting here gets real user information from people doing the same type of
projects, but I suspect Google rarely dives into Usenet groups.

There are numerous free tutorials available and, if you don't mind shelling
out the money, Popular Woodworking has a CD(DVD?) tutorial focused on
woodworking. Intro and advanced at $25 a disk. I've not seen them and have
no relationship to the company.

Link to Book:
http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/p...ogle-sketchup/

Link to Tutorials:
http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/p...rted-download/

You can download the tutorial.

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and
even at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to
build a woodworking project. In several instances multiple files
needed to be created for a project.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind
of money lying around.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
mechanics of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find
a way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions
and other notations that I can build from.

For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to
"taken apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated
and add dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details
and dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to
the drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I
could then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc)
from one page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as
needed. Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent
manner would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?


If you are really interested in the designers improving the product, may
I suggest posting your comment directly to Google, in addition to here.
Posting here gets real user information from people doing the same type
of projects, but I suspect Google rarely dives into Usenet groups.

There are numerous free tutorials available and, if you don't mind
shelling out the money, Popular Woodworking has a CD(DVD?) tutorial
focused on woodworking. Intro and advanced at $25 a disk. I've not seen
them and have no relationship to the company.

Link to Book:
http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/p...ogle-sketchup/


Link to Tutorials:
http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/p...rted-download/


You can download the tutorial.



I tried learning from the tutorials, and I did. But there were numerous
subtle but very valuable details that I got from the book(s) that I
would probably have never picked up from watching the videos. Surely
having access to both resources is good. When you start counting the
number of hours which one can put into this, the cost of the media seems
to become less material. The only books I've used so far are the
"dummys" book and the "cookbook" book. I may get the woodworkers book
mentioned above. I didn't really enjoy reading the "dummys" book that
much--but I picked up some important details from it.

Bill

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message


CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser
in
any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the
past
version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to
Sketchup
7.0.

You can indeed "save as" a file in any past version from SketchUp 8.

AAMOF, uninstalled 7 when I installed 8 (left the material and components
folders because there are some nice ones with previous SU versions that
are no longer in version 8).


I have not pulled 7 yet but used Opus to syncronize the folders under 7 to
those in 8. ;~)

On Sep 15, 4:04*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:



I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..


The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their
proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the
freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop
layouts.
Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =o)
And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just
astounding.
It still looks like ****, though....g,d & r.

On 9/16/2010 10:36 AM, Robatoy wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:04 pm, wrote:


The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

It still looks like ****, though....g,d& r.

ROTFL ... agreed!

Nice thing is that, if set up properly, SU does print much better than
it looks on most PC screens.

For any software it's hard to control all the graphic display subsytems
and screen resolutions it operates on.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sep 16, 11:36*am, Robatoy wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:04*pm, Swingman wrote:

On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their
proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the
freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop
layouts.
Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =o)
And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just
astounding.

Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

Apology accepted.

It still looks like ****, though....g,d & r.

There's an app for that. You can use plugins or other programs to
tweak the SU model to make it photorealistic, though why someone would
need to do that for a countertop layout, I have no idea. I take
pictures of a material and use the JPG as a material in SU. You can't
get more real than real.

R

On Sep 16, 11:56*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Sep 16, 11:36*am, Robatoy wrote:





On Sep 15, 4:04*pm, Swingman wrote:

On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their
proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the
freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop
layouts.
Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =o)
And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just
astounding.

Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

Apology accepted.

It wasn't that long ago that the freebie still sucked canal water. I
only 'trashed' (too strong a word, really, yours not mine) those who
tried to pawn it off as full-blown CAD, which it wasn't and still
isn't. Those who have a modicum of CAD knowledge have agreed with me
on that.
My criticism of SU at the time was well founded and I have nothing to
apologize for. The fact that SU has evolved to this extent is
wonderful. It does not negate my previous complaints about previous
versions.

People who used to review Hyundai cars from days gone by are now
finding them quite good. That did not make them wrong back in those
days.




It still looks like ****, though....g,d & r.

There's an app for that. *You can use plugins or other programs to
tweak the SU model to make it photorealistic, though why someone would
need to do that for a countertop layout, I have no idea. *I take
pictures of a material and use the JPG as a material in SU. *You can't
get more real than real.

R

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:29:10 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 9/15/2010 3:04 PM, Swingman wrote:

AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

Instead of just talk/BS, here's "some show and tell" regarding the use
of layers (30 or so) and scenes (20+) with a complicated model with many
parts and dimensions:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Kitc...es-Example.zip

FWIW, this is an actual kitchen design model, used for the both the
clients input during the design stage, and for shop drawings for actual
build ... it is scheduled to start build/installation very shortly ...
it is not a drill.

(There is a color version, but I prefer the non-color for viewing)

CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser
in any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

Let me know here of any download problems.

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote:
You can't
get more real than real.

R


Really? : )

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 9/16/2010 2:06 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)



.... cheap at ten times the price, and pays for itself multiple times
each and every project.

Money making software when wielded with a modicum of business sense and
without preconceived notions.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sep 16, 3:06*pm, FrozenNorth
wrote:
On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, *wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. *Wow.

Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)
--
Froz...

The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

The trick about those 'write-offs' is that you need to show a taxable
profit first. *S*

On 9/16/10 4:37 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Sep 16, 3:06 pm,
wrote:
On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)

The trick about those 'write-offs' is that you need to show a taxable
profit first. *S*

I am sure Swing is making money, or he couldn't afford that Festering stuff.
:-)

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Sep 16, 3:30*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 9/16/2010 2:06 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:





On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)



... cheap at ten times the price, and pays for itself multiple times
each and every project.

Money making software when wielded with a modicum of business sense and
without preconceived notions.

The same for the purchase of a tool which will give you capability
others don't have. That allows you to create your own markets. The
whole thing about my investing in computers and software, as far back
as 1986, was to have the capability to show a customer what I was
about to build for them. Prior to that, I used to use Lawson charts
and draw things on a board by hand. Show and tell goes a long way.
Ultimately, there only two justifiable reasons to invest in equipment:
a) It makes you more efficient and there is a ROI which can be
projected.
b) The guy across the street, the one you're competing with, doesn't
have the capability you're about to invest in.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
a) It makes you more efficient and there is a ROI which can be projected.
b) The guy across the street, the one you're competing with, doesn't have
the capability you're about to invest in.

Yeah, but only one of those reasons has gloat factor automatically built in.

Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
comments and questions below.

Marty

On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found
that a necessity.

Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25
cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the
individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often
"copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on it
temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is
not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wanting
to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components
that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.

So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
build them?

For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. I ended up
with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
needed to build each component. I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the
drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version
offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included
"Layout" module.

Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not
included in the free version.

Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems
to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
mechanics of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become
proficient enough with the program to do it.

In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!

(Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them myself
using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin
ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).
May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.

I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.

Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
to show the details I need? That would be very helpful.

Marty


For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken
apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file.

Again, "Scenes" and "Layers" are what you want to learn how to wield.

Once you become proficient with these, and with thought and commonsense
application of these two features, you can do exactly the above.

I could
then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed.
Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner
would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
materials and machine the parts.

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with only
one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient
with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".

Each of my individual kitchen design files often have 20 or more layers
and dozens of scenes, all in the same file.

AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

On Sep 16, 4:50*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
a) It makes you more efficient and there is a ROI which can be projected.
b) The guy across the street, the one you're competing with, doesn't have
the capability you're about to invest in.

Yeah, but only one of those reasons has gloat factor automatically built in.


Overheard:
"No point buying a cnc in this town, that mad Dutchman is two years
ahead already."

Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
to show the details I need? *That would be very helpful.

Marty


Hello... Maybe I am just an experienced CAD user but I opened the
scene tool and saw instantly how it works.

Turn off all parts except part #1
Create a scene that has the camera angle you want of part #1
Create annotations on a layer named part #1
Use the scene controls to capture what parts and layers are turned on.

Now do the same for part #2, etc., etc.

So each scene has a viewpoint and only the appropriate things turned
on or off.

This does not do explosions unfortunately. Cheapest CAD program I know
that does OK explosions is a few thousand dollars.

On Sep 16, 4:58*pm, Marty wrote:
On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:

Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
comments and questions below.

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

* In several instances multiple files needed to be
created for a project.

Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found
that a necessity.

Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25
cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the
individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often
"copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on it
temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is
not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wanting
to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components
that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.

So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
build them?

For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. *I ended up
with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
needed to build each component. *I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.



My comments are about the free version because, after looking
at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
money lying around.

Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the
drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version
offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included
"Layout" module.

Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not
included in the free version.

Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems
to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
mechanics of using the program, but much
of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
other notations that I can build from.

SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become
proficient enough with the program to do it.

In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!

(Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them myself
using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin
ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).

May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.

I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.

SketchUp is flexible and I'm sure there are better ways to do it than
mine, but it works and it's easy enough to do. I have no experience
with those plugins that were mentioned, so I basically just create an
exploded layer or layers and copy the components to the new layer and
move them to where I want them. With scenes you'd have the first
scene with everything together, and the exploded layer turned off,
then in the second scene you'd have the exploded layer turned on and
the original layer turned off. That's the quick idea, but it's better
with at least one more layer as there's usually a central master part/
assembly that everything else is attached to, so that can stay and be
visible in all scenes.

When you run an animation the change between scenes occurs in a series
of frames - a movie, and one layer turns off and the other turns on
(and the view changes if you've been tweaking the view in individual
scenes). By using a number of scenes and moving parts in a logical
order, that exploded parts assembly really will look like it's coming
apart or going together.

Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
to show the details I need? *That would be very helpful.

I posted links to two of the bigger free tutorial sites in an earlier
post. If you really want to get tweaked, check out Sketchy Physics.

R

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 14:30:35 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 9/16/2010 2:06 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, wrote:

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)



Add my grin, too. :^)


... cheap at ten times the price, and pays for itself multiple times
each and every project.

That's the way to do it! You would probably like using Chief
Architect or SoftPLAN, too, but they're tougher to get up and running
with and are 5x the cost.


Money making software when wielded with a modicum of business sense and
without preconceived notions.

So, how many/which of the of the $500 v. Free functions are you using?
LayOut, etc? I still haven't spent the time to come up to speed with
it.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
comments and questions below.

Snip


So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build these
cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to build
them?

Once you do this time and again, like anything else, you tend to do things
the same. This speeds up design AND production. Basically use a rule of
thumb that works for you. Tenons are sized X amount according to the
material size. For me I have made thousands of cabinets door joints that
are stub tenon. I "always" make the tenon the thickness of the panel that
the door will receive, 7/32", and I always make the tenon 1/2" deep.
Cutlist sees the tenon whether visible or not if you make the part into a
component and actually draw the tenon on the part. So basically a rail with
tenons that is visibly 10" long when assembled will be recognized as 11"
with the 1/2" tenons added to each end. Cutlist tells me to cut the rail
11". I know that the part is a rail and will need to have a 1/2" long tenon
cut into each end and I will need to cut a groove 1/2" deep and 7/32" wide
to receive the tenon and panel both the rails and stiles.

For the odd detail that is unique you may still need to copy that detail to
another area of the drawing and print that detail separately for reference.

Uniformity speeds the design and the execution.

On Sep 17, 5:40*am, "Leon" wrote:
*So basically a rail with
tenons that is visibly 10" long when assembled will be recognized as 11"
with the 1/2" tenons added to each end. *Cutlist tells me to cut the rail
11". *I know that the part is a rail and will need to have a 1/2" long tenon
cut into each end and I will need to cut a groove 1/2" deep and 7/32" wide
to receive the tenon and panel both the rails and stiles.


Zactly. My drawer boxes are always an inch smaller than the cavity
assigned to them. Something you do on autopilot.
Rails are 1" longer. We do this, we know this.
To a newb, a lot of that can be really intimidating

Uniformity speeds the design and the execution.

Zactly again. That is why, even when I design/build one-off small
cabinets, I stick to the 32 mm system. It's where I live. (That router
sure makes life a lot easier now too. It came with http://cabinetpartspro.com/
and that's a joy to use.)

I highly recommend that one becomes, even if somewhat cursory,
familiar with the concept behind the 32 mm system. The Intarweb tubes
are full of info.

On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Sep 16, 11:36 am, wrote:

Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =o)

Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

No, this is his lame attempt at an excuse to justify his trashing
something he knew next to nothing about. Rotoboy was trashing sketchup
as a toy long after Swing, and millions of others were using it for
designing houses, kitchens etc, etc. Swing wasted a lot of time arguing
with the scum bag.

--
Jack
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!
http://jbstein.com

On 9/16/2010 3:58 PM, Marty wrote:

So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
build them?

For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. I ended up
with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
needed to build each component. I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.

While your above example is quite possible with SU using scenes and
layers, the question is why would you want to?

IOW, if you're designing and building a car, why have the parts for the
motor in the same file as the body?

Example: Following are two SU files of end cabinets that a client
ordered to match a kitchen cabinet style hutch I had previously built
for her. The client lives in a different city, so the ability for her to
be able to download the free version of SU and view the files was
important in doing this long distance.

This first file, made strictly for design purposes and was made up of
components from both the proposed end cabinet design(s) I was working on
at the time and the file I had originally used to build the kitchen
cabinet hutch, is the actual file was e-mailed back and forth to give
her a choice in the design and to determine which end cabinet style
(Frame and Panel, or match the "kitchen cabinet" look of the original)
she would prefer.

(Keep in mind that the original hutch was designed to go in a kitchen,
thus the "kitchen cabinet" type case work involved in both files):

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinets-Ver1b.zip

This second file was what I call an "as-built" file and what was used to
both make a cutlist, and to build the actual cabinets:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
Style-AsBuilt.zip

That said, I know in advance how I want to build things like frame and
panel doors, so I really don't need to go into detail with mortise and
tenons, etc in most of my SU models.

My goal with SU is mostly overall dimensions, stylistic elements, and
enough component detail to generate a cutlist for the particular method
I'm going to use to build the end product.

PLUS the thought process involved in building the piece on "paper" first
before ever going into the shop, which keeps you from building yourself
into corners without a plan and having to field engineer your way out.

May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.

I can't advise you there ... I don't use it. Instead I do the exploding
myself using scenes and layers to explode a copy of the original
component to be exloded.

I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.

Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
to show the details I need? That would be very helpful.

There are a few tutorials on youtube on using scenes and layer, but
perhaps this simpler file of a support assembly will give you an idea of
how to use scenes and layers to do an exploded drawing of a component,
made up of other components:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/ExplodedDrawing.zip

In all the examples above, what you are looking for are example of the
use of scenes and layers to effect some of the things you are asking
about WITHOUT cluttering up your drawings with multiple copies of the
same thing spread all over universe, which makes for a much bigger file
and one that is harder for your graphic subsystem to display,
particularly if you're short of horsepower in that regard.

That is not to say that is not a valid method ... I just prefer the
tidiness and ultimate organization of using both scenes and layers,
instead of multiple copies of the same components just shown in
different scenes.

FWIW, another tool that is very helpful for accomplishing these types of
tasks is the "Hide", which can be used to great effect with "Scenes" to
hide elements you don't want to show in that scene.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/17/2010 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
Style-AsBuilt.zip

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
Style-AsBuilt.zip

Damn Thunderbird ... or dummy operator.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/16/2010 12:16 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Sep 16, 11:56 am, wrote:

Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =o)

Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

Apology accepted.

It wasn't that long ago that the freebie still sucked canal water.

Really? What version sucked canal water?

I only 'trashed' (too strong a word, really, yours not mine) those who
tried to pawn it off as full-blown CAD, which it wasn't and still
isn't.

Not one person ever tried to pawn it off as a full-blown CAD program.
Every time someone, usually Swingman or Leon made you look stupid, you
would cry some nonsense about full blown CAD. Everyone tried to tell
you it was a great program for woodworkers to use in designing cabinetry
and woodwork in general. You insisted it was a toy. You were an idiot
then, and nothing, including Sketchups usefulness, has changed.

Those who have a modicum of CAD knowledge have agreed with me
on that.

Well, Swing must have told you a million times it was not a full blown
CAD program, but it was far from the toy you were ****ing and moaning
about.

My criticism of SU at the time was well founded and I have nothing to
apologize for.The fact that SU has evolved to this extent is
wonderful. It does not negate my previous complaints about previous
versions.

Your complaints were both silly and bogus, apology notwithstanding!

--
Jack
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity!
http://jbstein.com

On Sep 17, 12:29*pm, Jack Stein wrote:
On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote:

On Sep 16, 11:36 am, *wrote:
Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =o)
Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

No, this is his lame attempt at an excuse to justify his trashing
something he knew next to nothing about. *Rotoboy was trashing sketchup
as a toy long after Swing, and millions of others were using it for
designing houses, kitchens etc, etc. *Swing wasted a lot of time arguing
with the scum bag.

--
Jack
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!http://jbstein.com

Out on a weekend pass are you Douchenozzle?

Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip

Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)