That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.

That I never drop the scrap pieces?

That you never see a BORG employee that knows what they are talking
about? I have only ever come across one that knows the difference
between a standard grade and premium grade 2x4. (I know the
difference, and the one that knew was someone that I have known to be
in building material sales for quite a long time and was working at
the blue dump post retirement)

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

That the brad nailer will run out when you needed only 2 more.

That you tell someone that you make cabinets and furniture for
yourself only and that they still insist on having you give them an
estimate on building them some cabinets for their laundry room.

That the person from the above predicament gets mad when you tell
them NO.


It's been a really long day.....

Allen

On 5/25/2010 9:38 PM, allen476 wrote:
That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.

That I never drop the scrap pieces?

That you never see a BORG employee that knows what they are talking
about? I have only ever come across one that knows the difference
between a standard grade and premium grade 2x4. (I know the
difference, and the one that knew was someone that I have known to be
in building material sales for quite a long time and was working at
the blue dump post retirement)

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

That the brad nailer will run out when you needed only 2 more.

That you tell someone that you make cabinets and furniture for
yourself only and that they still insist on having you give them an
estimate on building them some cabinets for their laundry room.

That the person from the above predicament gets mad when you tell
them NO.

Just tell 'em "be glad to--$25K + materials".

allen476 wrote:
That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.

You don't have a 24 hour Home Depot?

That I never drop the scrap pieces?

That you never see a BORG employee that knows what they are talking
about? I have only ever come across one that knows the difference
between a standard grade and premium grade 2x4. (I know the
difference, and the one that knew was someone that I have known to be
in building material sales for quite a long time and was working at
the blue dump post retirement)

How about one that has premium grade clear lumber that is not sold like
hardwood?

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

That the brad nailer will run out when you needed only 2 more.

That you tell someone that you make cabinets and furniture for
yourself only and that they still insist on having you give them an
estimate on building them some cabinets for their laundry room.

That the person from the above predicament gets mad when you tell
them NO.

I never tell them no. Just quote them about $700 per lineal foot of
face and watch THEM trying to get away....

It's been a really long day.....

Allen

Robert, the short and simple answer is, "Because Adam ate the apple." It
has all been downhill since

Deb


Robert Allison wrote:

allen476 wrote:
That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.

You don't have a 24 hour Home Depot?

That I never drop the scrap pieces?

That you never see a BORG employee that knows what they are talking
about? I have only ever come across one that knows the difference
between a standard grade and premium grade 2x4. (I know the
difference, and the one that knew was someone that I have known to be
in building material sales for quite a long time and was working at
the blue dump post retirement)

How about one that has premium grade clear lumber that is not sold like
hardwood?

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

That the brad nailer will run out when you needed only 2 more.

That you tell someone that you make cabinets and furniture for
yourself only and that they still insist on having you give them an
estimate on building them some cabinets for their laundry room.

That the person from the above predicament gets mad when you tell
them NO.

I never tell them no. Just quote them about $700 per lineal foot of
face and watch THEM trying to get away....

It's been a really long day.....

Allen

On May 25, 10:55*pm, Robert Allison wrote:
allen476 wrote:


You don't have a 24 hour Home Depot?


No, all we have besides a family hardware store is a Lowe's and the
hardware store closes at 7 and the Blue Borg closes at 9. Home Depot
is another 30 minutes away and they also close at 9.



How about one that has premium grade clear lumber that is not sold like
hardwood?


I would be happy if someone from there actually knew the difference
between maple and poplar and the use for them.


I never tell them no. *Just quote them about $700 per lineal foot of
face and watch THEM trying to get away....



At the time it didn't occur to me to tell them that. It was a hot day
here and that occured at 8pm last night. They want uppers and lowers
to match their kitchen cabinets.

I will have to try that.....

Allen

. . . that it's next to impossible to find competent repair for my SENCO
nailers?
I hate dealing with Circle Saw.

Dave in Houston

"allen476" wrote in message
...
That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.
snippage
It's been a really long day.....

Allen


Karma?

Experienced knowledgeable sales people cost money. You want cheap stuff. In
order to keep it cheap they shave a little of the thickness of wood,make the
nails a little softer and hire newbie's as employees for low wages.You
wanted cheep you got cheep ,quit bitching. They stock the shelves and if
asked point you to the right isle, you do the rest yourself.




"allen476" wrote in message
...
That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.

That I never drop the scrap pieces?

That you never see a BORG employee that knows what they are talking
about? I have only ever come across one that knows the difference
between a standard grade and premium grade 2x4. (I know the
difference, and the one that knew was someone that I have known to be
in building material sales for quite a long time and was working at
the blue dump post retirement)

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

That the brad nailer will run out when you needed only 2 more.

That you tell someone that you make cabinets and furniture for
yourself only and that they still insist on having you give them an
estimate on building them some cabinets for their laundry room.

That the person from the above predicament gets mad when you tell
them NO.


It's been a really long day.....

Allen

Now they charge a fortune for the shavings too.


"Rusty" wrote in message
news Experienced knowledgeable sales people cost money. You want cheap stuff. In
order to keep it cheap they shave a little of the thickness of wood,make the
nails a little softer and hire newbie's as employees for low wages.You
wanted cheep you got cheep ,quit bitching. They stock the shelves and if
asked point you to the right isle, you do the rest yourself.




"allen476" wrote in message
...
That you never run out of screws (or bolts, or nails, or any other
fastener) at noon when everyone is open? I always seem to run out at
9PM when everything is closed.

That I never drop the scrap pieces?

That you never see a BORG employee that knows what they are talking
about? I have only ever come across one that knows the difference
between a standard grade and premium grade 2x4. (I know the
difference, and the one that knew was someone that I have known to be
in building material sales for quite a long time and was working at
the blue dump post retirement)

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

That the brad nailer will run out when you needed only 2 more.

That you tell someone that you make cabinets and furniture for
yourself only and that they still insist on having you give them an
estimate on building them some cabinets for their laundry room.

That the person from the above predicament gets mad when you tell
them NO.


It's been a really long day.....

Allen

Rusty wrote:
Experienced knowledgeable sales people cost money. You want cheap
stuff. In order to keep it cheap they shave a little of the thickness
of wood,make the nails a little softer and hire newbie's as employees
for low wages.You wanted cheep you got cheep ,quit bitching. They
stock the shelves and if asked point you to the right isle, you do
the rest yourself.

no. they point you at an aisle. there's really no guarantee that it's the
right one, and ime, is almost never the right one.

case in point: asked for sulfur in HD for using on cactus roots prior to
replanting some saguaros that blew over in a wind storm. it took 3 people 30
minutes to decide they didn't carry it. the first "associate" i asked didn't
speak any english besides the word "hello", which i thought was going a bit
too far for a store in the US. none of them had even heard of what it was,
let alone what it was used for.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

On May 26, 11:34*am, "Rusty" wrote:
Experienced knowledgeable sales people cost money. You want cheap stuff. In
order to keep it cheap they shave a little of the thickness of wood,make the
nails a little softer and hire newbie's as employees for low wages.You
wanted cheep you got cheep ,quit bitching. They stock the shelves and if
asked point you to the right isle, you do the rest yourself.



I usually go to a lumber place here. But since I only needed a 1x6x4
piece of poplar to finish one of the pieces I was working on, a 40
minute drive wasn't looking too good just to get it. I use the Blue
dump (because that is what it looks like on the inside and outside
here), because it is only 10 minutes from me. But when I go there, the
maple, poplar and oak are usually mixed together. That tells me either
they don't care or they don't know. And also they don't point you to
the right aisle half of the time here as well. Padlocks are not with
the door locks, taping compound is not in the tape aisle (here it is
in the paint department unless you want 5 gallons of it then it is
next to the sheetrock), hydraulic cement is not in the plumbing
department, and the winner from when they did their big rearrangement
(so you could find stuff easier) sandpaper is not in the sand and
cement aisle.


I know that you get what you pay for. That is why when I am starting a
project, I go to someplace that has people that know what they are
talking about. To me at least if you are going to advertise "You can
do it, we can help" then have knowledgeable people that can help. Most
of them do a great impression of "deer in headlights" when you ask
them anything.


Allen

In article , allen476 wrote:

Padlocks are not with the door locks,

No reason for them to be, either.

taping compound is not in the tape aisle

What, you mean with the masking tape? Of course not.

(here it is in the paint department

Exactly where I'd expect to find small quantities of it, for patching a wall
before painting it

unless you want 5 gallons of it then it is
next to the sheetrock),

Right where it should be, too.

hydraulic cement is not in the plumbing department,

No reason to expect it to be. Hydraulic cement is for repairing masonry, and
-- guess what -- it's in the masonry aisle.

and the winner from when they did their big rearrangement
(so you could find stuff easier) sandpaper is not in the sand and
cement aisle.

One of the two of us is an idiot. Either I just fell for an elaborate joke, or
you have some *very* strange ideas about where stuff ought to be in a hardware
store.

Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote:


No reason to expect it to be. Hydraulic cement is for repairing masonry, and
-- guess what -- it's in the masonry aisle.

and the winner from when they did their big rearrangement
(so you could find stuff easier) sandpaper is not in the sand and
cement aisle.

One of the two of us is an idiot. Either I just fell for an elaborate joke, or
you have some *very* strange ideas about where stuff ought to be in a hardware
store.

Bingo.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

Life is the stuff that happens to you
while you're making other plans.

On May 26, 12:55*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , allen476 wrote:

Padlocks are not with the door locks,

No reason for them to be, either.

taping compound is not in the tape aisle

What, you mean with the masking tape? Of course not.

(here it is in the paint department

Exactly where I'd expect to find small quantities of it, for patching a wall
before painting it

unless you want 5 gallons of it then it is
next to the sheetrock),

Right where it should be, too.

hydraulic cement is not in the plumbing department,

No reason to expect it to be. Hydraulic cement is for repairing masonry, and
-- guess what -- it's in the masonry aisle.

and the winner from when they did their big rearrangement
(so you could find stuff easier) sandpaper is not in the sand and
cement aisle.

One of the two of us is an idiot. Either I just fell for an elaborate joke, or
you have some *very* strange ideas about where stuff ought to be in a hardware
store.

No, that is where the "associates" said they were. I know where they
should be. But they don't.

Our Blue dump has rearranged everything and now items are in
different areas. Couple that with the lack of training and well no one
knows where stuff is.

Padlocks used to be with the chain, now they are in the aisle with
storage bins and pneumatic nailers.

Hydraulic cement (I use the UGL brand since I can mix up small
quantities) is in the paint department when it was with the rest of
the cements and mortar. But instead I was told that it was in the
plumbing department. If I hadn't had to get another gallon of the UGL
paint, I would have never had found it. And it wasn't in the paint
department 3 days before either.

The 1 gallon and smaller joint compound used to be right with the
taping tools, cornerbead, and sheetrock. Now it is with the rest of
the vinyl spackle and caulking. I wasn't repairing but rather taping
out a small room and needed only a gallon. Got the 4 sheets of rock on
the cart and couldn't find the gallon size. I asked and was told that
they were in aisle 5. Well aisle 5 is tape not taping compound.

Sandpaper.....that made me laugh when I asked where that was moved to.
The girl had no clue and instead of asking where it was, said "it is
with the rest of the sand products".

Sorry, I should have clarified where I had been told where stuff was.
It has been a long week already.

Allen

My favorite HD tale is being told that for plumbing parts I need to go to a
plumbing store.
I was told this while standing in the "plumbing isle" and the person telling
me was wearing a HD orange smock/jacket/clownsuit
These days when I need service while in store, I call the store from their
phone, or use their PA system.
However, in my area we have 2 HDs, and they have mostly compentent staff, so
it really isn't that bad.

"allen476" wrote in message
...
On May 26, 11:34 am, "Rusty" wrote:
Experienced knowledgeable sales people cost money. You want cheap stuff.
In
order to keep it cheap they shave a little of the thickness of wood,make
the
nails a little softer and hire newbie's as employees for low wages.You
wanted cheep you got cheep ,quit bitching. They stock the shelves and if
asked point you to the right isle, you do the rest yourself.



I usually go to a lumber place here. But since I only needed a 1x6x4
piece of poplar to finish one of the pieces I was working on, a 40
minute drive wasn't looking too good just to get it. I use the Blue
dump (because that is what it looks like on the inside and outside
here), because it is only 10 minutes from me. But when I go there, the
maple, poplar and oak are usually mixed together. That tells me either
they don't care or they don't know. And also they don't point you to
the right aisle half of the time here as well. Padlocks are not with
the door locks, taping compound is not in the tape aisle (here it is
in the paint department unless you want 5 gallons of it then it is
next to the sheetrock), hydraulic cement is not in the plumbing
department, and the winner from when they did their big rearrangement
(so you could find stuff easier) sandpaper is not in the sand and
cement aisle.


I know that you get what you pay for. That is why when I am starting a
project, I go to someplace that has people that know what they are
talking about. To me at least if you are going to advertise "You can
do it, we can help" then have knowledgeable people that can help. Most
of them do a great impression of "deer in headlights" when you ask
them anything.


Allen

In article , allen476 wrote:
On May 26, 12:55=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
One of the two of us is an idiot. Either I just fell for an elaborate joke, or
you have some *very* strange ideas about where stuff ought to be in a hardware
store.

No, that is where the "associates" said they were. I know where they
should be. But they don't.

Ahh. I didn't consider that alternative. I guess it's me. Ok, you're not an
idiot, I'm only a partial idiot, but the "associates" at your local Borg are
complete idiots.

Our Blue dump has rearranged everything and now items are in
different areas. Couple that with the lack of training and well no one
knows where stuff is.

Padlocks used to be with the chain, now they are in the aisle with
storage bins and pneumatic nailers.

That's bizarre. The first place I'd expect to see them is with the chain; next
place I'd look is with hinges and hasps.

Hydraulic cement (I use the UGL brand since I can mix up small
quantities) is in the paint department when it was with the rest of
the cements and mortar. But instead I was told that it was in the
plumbing department. If I hadn't had to get another gallon of the UGL
paint, I would have never had found it. And it wasn't in the paint
department 3 days before either.

Odd. Why there, I wonder, and not with the other similar substances such as
mortar, concrete mix, and portland cement?

The 1 gallon and smaller joint compound used to be right with the
taping tools, cornerbead, and sheetrock. Now it is with the rest of
the vinyl spackle and caulking. I wasn't repairing but rather taping
out a small room and needed only a gallon. Got the 4 sheets of rock on
the cart and couldn't find the gallon size. I asked and was told that
they were in aisle 5. Well aisle 5 is tape not taping compound.

I still think that actually makes sense, though, to put the small cartons in
the paint department. It would make more sense to stock them in both places.

Sandpaper.....that made me laugh when I asked where that was moved to.
The girl had no clue and instead of asking where it was, said "it is
with the rest of the sand products".

That's one of my pet peeves. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer, provided
it's followed by "... but I'll find out" or "... but I'll find someone who
does". But to just make stuff up -- !!

I'd have complained to the manager about that. *After* chewing out the
employee.

Sorry, I should have clarified where I had been told where stuff was.
It has been a long week already.

Makes an amusing conversation.

On 2010-05-26 21:24:11 -0400, (Doug Miller) said:

I still think that actually makes sense, though, to put the small
cartons in the paint department. It would make more sense to stock them
in both places.

Some of this depends on store size. The Lowes and HD stores closest to
me are about 30,000 ft^2 smaller than the next closest. That means
stock mix will differ between the stores, but I'd think the small
buckets in both locations would be likely in either size store.

BTW, both the Lowes and the HD seem to be almost overstaffed. Both
stores' employees have been helpful for the most part* -- the doofii
seem to be kept on check lanes -- and they know enough to leave me
alone when I growl at 'em.

*This can't always be said of Rockler... and the Woodcraft store's
manager's sense of humor rates "fail."

On May 26, 11:01*pm, Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-26 21:24:11 -0400, (Doug Miller) said:

I still think that actually makes sense, though, to put the small
cartons in the paint department. It would make more sense to stock them
in both places.

Some of this depends on store size. The Lowes and HD stores closest to
me are about 30,000 ft^2 smaller than the next closest. That means
stock mix will differ between the stores, but I'd think the small
buckets in both locations would be likely in either size store.

BTW, both the Lowes and the HD seem to be almost overstaffed. Both
stores' employees have been helpful for the most part* -- the doofii
seem to be kept on check lanes -- and they know enough to leave me
alone when I growl at 'em.

*This can't always be said of Rockler... and the Woodcraft store's
manager's sense of humor rates "fail."

That is why I usually use the self checkout. Fast and no waiting.....

They need to send some of those employees to this area. Most of their
employees here don't have a clue. Shook my head at this one.....I was
standing in line because the self checkout was closed. Looked at the
guy's cart behind me. He had 2 8' electric baseboard heaters, a 100'
roll of 12/3NM-B, and a 25A 2 pole Siemens breaker. Now I used to sell
electrical supplies for a living so something isn't adding up.
Standard density electric baseboard is 250 watts/ft so there is 4000
watts which is about 17 amps at 240V. So the only qualm I have about
the wire is that it should be 12/2 since they don't need a neutral. So
I asked him if the electrical associate helped him. The response was
"Why yes" and I said "Oh boy"

So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer breaker.
Further more he needed a 20 amp 2 pole breaker for the 12 gauge wire.
The associate told him that he could use a 25A breaker and didn't need
connectors (really wrong) and that he could use a staple gun for
stapling.

I did help him because I couldn't in good conscience let him get that.
I spent an extra 5 minutes helping him but I feel that places like
Lowes should only have people to direct you to the items not tell you
how to do it. Hence why I say that they should have people on staff
that can live up to the advertising of "you can do we can help" but I
know they won't though.

The Woodcraft closest to me has a good staff though. Too bad I have to
drive 2 hours each way to go there. Never been to a Rockler.


Allen

On May 26, 9:24*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , allen476 wrote:

Ahh. I didn't consider that alternative. I guess it's me. Ok, you're not an
idiot, I'm only a partial idiot, but the "associates" at your local Borg are
complete idiots.

You're not an idiot Doug, I should have wrote it better.

Yes they are complete idiots, I agree.

Padlocks used to be with the chain, now they are in the aisle with
storage bins and pneumatic nailers.

That's bizarre. The first place I'd expect to see them is with the chain; next
place I'd look is with hinges and hasps.



Exactly


Hydraulic cement (I use the UGL brand since I can mix up small
quantities) is in the paint department when it was with the rest of
the cements and mortar. But instead I was told that it was in the
plumbing department. If I hadn't had to get another gallon of the UGL
paint, I would have never had found it. And it wasn't in the paint
department 3 days before either.

Odd. Why there, I wonder, and not with the other similar substances such as
mortar, concrete mix, and portland cement?


That's where it was to begin with.


The 1 gallon and smaller joint compound used to be right with the
taping tools, cornerbead, and sheetrock. Now it is with the rest of
the vinyl spackle and caulking. I wasn't repairing but rather taping
out a small room and needed only a gallon. Got the 4 sheets of rock on
the cart and couldn't find the gallon size. I asked and was told that
they were in aisle 5. Well aisle 5 is tape not taping compound.

I still think that actually makes sense, though, to put the small cartons in
the paint department. It would make more sense to stock them in both places.



Exactly, just like they used to do. But not anymore. Must be 5 gallon
sales were too low.



Sandpaper.....that made me laugh when I asked where that was moved to.
The girl had no clue and instead of asking where it was, said "it is
with the rest of the sand products".

That's one of my pet peeves. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer, provided
it's followed by "... but I'll find out" or "... but I'll find someone who
does". But to just make stuff up -- !!

I'd have complained to the manager about that. *After* chewing out the
employee.


You would have laughed hard after hearing that because I knew she was
making it up. Complaining at this store falls on deaf ears. I have
complained 3 times in the last year about the service. Seems like they
get someone that is getting good and they are gone. The sad part is
that they know that there is little to no competition in this area so
they have you by the nuts.




Sorry, I should have clarified where I had been told where stuff was.
It has been a long week already.

Makes an amusing conversation.

Yes it does......

Allen

Hi,

allen476 wrote:
That I never drop the scrap pieces?

Murphy's law?

That you never see a BORG employee when you actually need them to
fetch something from the top shelf. But stare at the wood products
while you are making sure of everything you need, there will be 20 of
them asking if you need help.

Well, when I wanted three or four things at the local home-improvement
store, the one assistant that was available for the whole shop had a
loooooong queue of people in front of him. At one hour before closing
there seems to be a "break bell" - no assistants to be found in the
whole market at all and it took me more than 20 minutes to check out the
three things I had finally found by myself. The line in front of the
cash register (three out of seven open) was rather short, but the
cashier had to call for a shop assistant because of something (remember,
they'd disappeared half an hour earlier), so nothing moved for about ten
minutes. The same story at the other registers. While the market is
rather nice inside, the service is really bad. I found myself thinking
that I've never experienced anything like this even in the worst market
in the U.S. or Canada...

Additionally, they sell bicycles, car parts etc. - most of which aren't
worth the effort to bring the stuff from the shelf into your shopping
cart - never trust anything with more than four moving parts in that
kind of store?! But the worst thing of all - people buy this kind of
junk, when they could have much better quality (actually useable) for
only little more money?!

So recently I checked prices for wood at a local wood dealer (instead of
the home-improvement market). The wood would be much cheaper, but I
can't handle 2m x 3m pieces in my hobby room, so I have to pay the more
expensive stuff at the DIY market - they cut it to order... But you have
to put up with the shop assistant being either incompetent or a stupid
jerk (or both) with friendly and competent personnel being the very rare
exception... So if you ever worry about service quality again, just
think of my story: they act as if they don't want me buying stuff there!

Basically the most annoying thing about hobby woodworking is simply
getting the stuff... And finding a spot where to put the finished
product ;-)

Ciao..

Rusty wrote:

Experienced knowledgeable sales people cost money. You want cheap
stuff. In order to keep it cheap they shave a little of the thickness
of wood,make the nails a little softer and hire newbie's as employees
for low wages.You wanted cheep you got cheep ,quit bitching. They
stock the shelves and if asked point you to the right isle, you do
the rest yourself.


These types of threads generally get my attention, and I'm pretty well known
for speaking up when they hit. They're usually more about the arrogance of
the author than they are about the inadequacies of the BORGs. I spend
plenty of time in the BORGs and in smaller stores. I don't expect the
people in there to be the absolute expert on everything. In fact, I
consider it quite reasonable that I might know something more about some
aspect of their department than they do - especially if that is an area of
interest to me, in which I have dedicated a lot of time to master. I never
understand why it seems so important to people here to post some dribble
about encountering a person in a store that didn't know everything possible.
I've seen plenty of these "experts" make complete asses of themselves in
stores, arguing with associates who were correct in what they were saying,
but could not convince the know-it-all-read-it-on-the-internet fool.
Armchair experts in many cases.

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as the expert
who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster is all that
knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these questions? Beyond
direction to the right aisle, he should be all set.

In my 57 years on this earth, I've never once found a store where the owner,
or the staff was so expert that they knew everything better than I. The
expectation that anyone on the floor will know everything is folly at best.

Finally - contrary to the OP, I have come across a good many store employees
that really know their stuff. Too bad for the OP that this has only ever
happened once in his life.

--

-Mike-

allen476 wrote:


That is why I usually use the self checkout. Fast and no waiting.....

Ya know - I was probably one of the most resistant people, to the notion of
self-checkout in the beginning. Principles and all of that. However, I'm
generally not much for standing on principle for too long, and I embraced
them pretty quickly - especially when seeing that no one was in those lines.
Now - I'm all about self-checkout. As you say - fast and no waiting.


So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer breaker.

Well, that part is wrong. He can mix brands just fine, as long as the
breaker will mount in the box. No requirement for a CH breaker, depending
on the box he's using.



I did help him because I couldn't in good conscience let him get that.
I spent an extra 5 minutes helping him but I feel that places like
Lowes should only have people to direct you to the items not tell you
how to do it. Hence why I say that they should have people on staff
that can live up to the advertising of "you can do we can help" but I
know they won't though.

I do most of my BORG shopping at HD simply because it's more convient, so
I'm not certain what the Lowes experience is like around here. That said -
the HDs around here have some pretty knowledgable staff - especially in
electrical and plumbing. Both departments have Master certification holders
in the department, and the rest of the staff has been at it for a while -
they know their stuff.


--

-Mike-

In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
allen476 wrote:

So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer breaker.

Well, that part is wrong. He can mix brands just fine, as long as the
breaker will mount in the box. No requirement for a CH breaker, depending
on the box he's using.

Actually, there *is* such a requirement. Even though a Cutler-Hammer breaker
will fit, and function, perfectly in a Siemens box, for example, it's still a
Code violation to use it -- because the CH breaker wasn't tested in, and
therefore isn't listed for use in, a Siemens box, and it's a Code violation to
use any electrical device for a purpose for which it's not listed.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
allen476 wrote:

So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer breaker.
Well, that part is wrong. He can mix brands just fine, as long as the
breaker will mount in the box. No requirement for a CH breaker, depending
on the box he's using.

Actually, there *is* such a requirement. Even though a Cutler-Hammer breaker
will fit, and function, perfectly in a Siemens box, for example, it's still a
Code violation to use it -- because the CH breaker wasn't tested in, and
therefore isn't listed for use in, a Siemens box, and it's a Code violation to
use any electrical device for a purpose for which it's not listed.

But, that doesn't mean the breaker the customer had wasn't a
replacement-brand breaker manufactured for the purpose by another
manufacturer.

Many of the original CH breakers are now obsolete and only third-party,
NOS, remanufactured or other replacements are available.

Upshot is, insufficient evidence to say unequivocally the selected
breaker wasn't ok for the panel; overly restrictive to say that only a
CH-manufactured breaker can go in a CH panel. It has to be made as a
replacement and listed as a replacement for the panel, true, but it
doesn't have to be manufactured only by CH.

--

On May 29, 12:18*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
allen476 wrote:
So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer breaker.

Well, that part is wrong. *He can mix brands just fine, as long as the
breaker will mount in the box. *No requirement for a CH breaker, depending
on the box he's using.

Actually, there *is* such a requirement. Even though a Cutler-Hammer breaker
will fit, and function, perfectly in a Siemens box, for example, it's still a
Code violation to use it -- because the CH breaker wasn't tested in, and
therefore isn't listed for use in, a Siemens box, and it's a Code violation to
use any electrical device for a purpose for which it's not listed.

Exactly......And also that the UL listing is voided when mixing
brands. That is one of the first things that the insurance companies
look at when investigating an electrical fire. Mix brands and they
will NOT pay.

Allen

On May 29, 10:29*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


I do most of my BORG shopping at HD simply because it's more convient, so
I'm not certain what the Lowes experience is like around here. *That said -
the HDs around here have some pretty knowledgable staff - especially in
electrical and plumbing. *Both departments have Master certification holders
in the department, and the rest of the staff has been at it for a while -
they know their stuff.

--

-Mike-


Here they have you by the nuts. They are for the most part the only
game in town save for a small hardware store where I can get most of
what I want but the hours suck and a large lumber yard that only
caters to the construction companies and doesn't' carry hardwoods.

HD in this area is about the same as Lowe's and an hour out of the
way.

Neither can keep employees or have them care about their jobs. It's
really sad.

Allen

On May 29, 2:13*pm, dpb wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:
allen476 wrote:

So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer breaker.
Well, that part is wrong. *He can mix brands just fine, as long as the
breaker will mount in the box. *No requirement for a CH breaker, depending
on the box he's using.

Actually, there *is* such a requirement. Even though a Cutler-Hammer breaker
will fit, and function, perfectly in a Siemens box, for example, it's still a
Code violation to use it -- because the CH breaker wasn't tested in, and
therefore isn't listed for use in, a Siemens box, and it's a Code violation to
use any electrical device for a purpose for which it's not listed.

But, that doesn't mean the breaker the customer had wasn't a
replacement-brand breaker manufactured for the purpose by another
manufacturer.

Many of the original CH breakers are now obsolete and only third-party,
NOS, remanufactured or other replacements are available.

Upshot is, insufficient evidence to say unequivocally the selected
breaker wasn't ok for the panel; overly restrictive to say that only a
CH-manufactured breaker can go in a CH panel. *It has to be made as a
replacement and listed as a replacement for the panel, true, but it
doesn't have to be manufactured only by CH.

--

All of CH breakers are readily available. They have 2 types, one is
there residential/light commercial (They look like a Siemens,GE,Square
D Homeline breaker) and then the commercial/industrial division (They
have a reddish beige handle and look like a Square D QO series breaker
on the bottom).

There was a company that made interchangeable breakers but they have
gone out of business. Basically though manufacturers are not going to
spend the extra money having their breaker UL listed for another
manufacturers panel. The last one I remember that did that was
Westinghouse and they are no longer around.

Allen

In article , allen476 wrote:

Exactly......And also that the UL listing is voided when mixing
brands. That is one of the first things that the insurance companies
look at when investigating an electrical fire. Mix brands and they
will NOT pay.

This is a frequently-heard claim, but do you have any evidence that it has
ever actually happened anywhere, even once?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Mike Marlow"
wrote:
allen476 wrote:

So he was curious and asked why. I told him the wire is wrong, the
breaker is wrong, and what about connectors and staples. The breaker
was the only one they had that would fit a Cutler-Hammer panel. Told
him that you can't mix brands, that you need a Cutler-Hammer
breaker.

Well, that part is wrong. He can mix brands just fine, as long as
the breaker will mount in the box. No requirement for a CH breaker,
depending on the box he's using.

Actually, there *is* such a requirement. Even though a Cutler-Hammer
breaker
will fit, and function, perfectly in a Siemens box, for example, it's
still a
Code violation to use it -- because the CH breaker wasn't tested in,
and
therefore isn't listed for use in, a Siemens box, and it's a Code
violation to
use any electrical device for a purpose for which it's not listed.

Depends - on what Type breakers are specified by the panel manufacturer. If
a third party manufactuer provides a matching Type, then it will work. If
the breaker is certified for a Type then it's acceptable.

--

-Mike-

allen476 wrote:



There was a company that made interchangeable breakers but they have
gone out of business. Basically though manufacturers are not going to
spend the extra money having their breaker UL listed for another
manufacturers panel. The last one I remember that did that was
Westinghouse and they are no longer around.


Sure they are. The aftermarket is rich enough to justify the investment.
That's why they manufacture and certify Types.

--

-Mike-

allen476 wrote:
....

All of CH breakers are readily available. ...

I just saw a listing on web that stated the converse...

There was a company that made interchangeable breakers but they have
gone out of business. ...

As far as I'm aware there still are generic breakers on the shelves at
the Ace Hardware; certainly were not very long ago although I haven't
paid any attention recently. The BORGs when lived where there were any
tended to stock some as well altho that has been 10 yrs...

--

allen476 wrote:


Exactly......And also that the UL listing is voided when mixing
brands. That is one of the first things that the insurance companies
look at when investigating an electrical fire. Mix brands and they
will NOT pay.


Bull****. Sorry to be abrupt, but this insurance company payoff thing comes
up all the time. It's pure bull.

As for mixed breakers, show me where the requirement is for more than the
listed Type. Show me where the UL listing is voided for mixing brands.

--

-Mike-

On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as the
expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster is all
that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these questions?
Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over and
tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something else
anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as the
expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster is all
that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these questions?
Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something else
anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as the
expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster is all
that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these questions?
Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

Ok - try it next time without getting into the hooch before you reply.
First - go back and read what I wrote, and if you're going to quote me,
quote the entire thought. Second - **** your "oh knowledgeable one "
bull****. Third - **** your "chucklehead neighbor" stuff. Fine - you're
one of the "experts" here (though, that is no evidence from your posts), and
now anyone who is lesser than you is a "chucklehead all thumbs neighbor"?
Thankfully, the world has gods like you. Did you even percieve the thought
I expressed? No - I didn't think so. You're too wrapped up in what you
think you are.

My comment - even as you elected to snip it, speaks to the arrogance of
people like you. Go back and read the whole thing while you are sober and
reply again.



For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something else
anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

No surprise there...

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as the
expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster is all
that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these questions?
Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

Ok - try it next time without getting into the hooch before you reply.
First - go back and read what I wrote, and if you're going to quote me,
quote the entire thought. Second - **** your "oh knowledgeable one "
bull****. Third - **** your "chucklehead neighbor" stuff. Fine - you're
one of the "experts" here (though, that is no evidence from your posts),
and now anyone who is lesser than you is a "chucklehead all thumbs
neighbor"? Thankfully, the world has gods like you. Did you even percieve
the thought I expressed? No - I didn't think so. You're too wrapped up
in what you think you are.

My comment - even as you elected to snip it, speaks to the arrogance of
people like you. Go back and read the whole thing while you are sober and
reply again.



For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something else
anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

No surprise there...

Somebody **** in your cornflakes?

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as
the expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster
is all that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these
questions? Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all
set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

Ok - try it next time without getting into the hooch before you
reply. First - go back and read what I wrote, and if you're going to
quote me, quote the entire thought. Second - **** your "oh
knowledgeable one " bull****. Third - **** your "chucklehead
neighbor" stuff. Fine - you're one of the "experts" here (though,
that is no evidence from your posts), and now anyone who is lesser
than you is a "chucklehead all thumbs neighbor"? Thankfully, the
world has gods like you. Did you even percieve the thought I
expressed? No - I didn't think so. You're too wrapped up in what
you think you are. My comment - even as you elected to snip it, speaks to
the arrogance
of people like you. Go back and read the whole thing while you are
sober and reply again.



For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something
else anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

No surprise there...

Somebody **** in your cornflakes?

Yeah - I guess I felt like that. I hate soggy cornflakes...

--

-Mike-

On 5/30/2010 12:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Steve wrote:


Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.


bull****. Third - **** your "chucklehead neighbor" stuff. Fine - you're
one of the "experts" here (though, that is no evidence from your posts), and
now anyone who is lesser than you is a "chucklehead all thumbs neighbor"?
Thankfully, the world has gods like you. Did you even percieve the thought
I expressed? No - I didn't think so. You're too wrapped up in what you
think you are.

My comment - even as you elected to snip it, speaks to the arrogance of
people like you. Go back and read the whole thing while you are sober and
reply again.

LOL! ... be gentle now, Mike.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Is it just all Mikes?


"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
...
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as the
expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster is all
that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these questions?
Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

Ok - try it next time without getting into the hooch before you reply.
First - go back and read what I wrote, and if you're going to quote me,
quote the entire thought. Second - **** your "oh knowledgeable one "
bull****. Third - **** your "chucklehead neighbor" stuff. Fine - you're
one of the "experts" here (though, that is no evidence from your posts),
and now anyone who is lesser than you is a "chucklehead all thumbs
neighbor"? Thankfully, the world has gods like you. Did you even percieve
the thought I expressed? No - I didn't think so. You're too wrapped up
in what you think you are.

My comment - even as you elected to snip it, speaks to the arrogance of
people like you. Go back and read the whole thing while you are sober and
reply again.



For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something else
anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

No surprise there...

Somebody **** in your cornflakes?



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
On 2010-05-29 10:17:20 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
said:

So - who cares if the guy on the floor is not as knowledgable as
the expert who posts his "experiences" here? If the wreck poster
is all that knowledgable, why is he needing to ask all of these
questions? Beyond direction to the right aisle, he should be all
set.

Might not be worth a tinker's dam to you, oh knowledgeable one, but
what about your chucklehead, all-thumbs neighbor? You gonna go over
and tell him Big Blue (or Big Orange) set him up for disaster.

Ok - try it next time without getting into the hooch before you
reply. First - go back and read what I wrote, and if you're going to
quote me, quote the entire thought. Second - **** your "oh
knowledgeable one " bull****. Third - **** your "chucklehead
neighbor" stuff. Fine - you're one of the "experts" here (though,
that is no evidence from your posts), and now anyone who is lesser
than you is a "chucklehead all thumbs neighbor"? Thankfully, the
world has gods like you. Did you even percieve the thought I
expressed? No - I didn't think so. You're too wrapped up in what
you think you are. My comment - even as you elected to snip it, speaks
to the arrogance
of people like you. Go back and read the whole thing while you are
sober and reply again.



For those of us Andy Griffith fans, "Big Orange" means something
else anyway, and I believe I'll go have one.

No surprise there...

Somebody **** in your cornflakes?

Yeah - I guess I felt like that. I hate soggy cornflakes...



Especially when you don't know how they got soggy ...