Larry Blanchard wrote in
:

*snip*


If by unfinished you mean uninsulated, fix that problem first. Saves
on both heat and AC. What kind of insulation is above that finished
ceiling?


We insulated an attached garage (but didn't heat it, it was for the car)
and it made drastic improvements in the rooms of the house attached to the
garage. Depending on how leaky your garage is, insulating might pay for
itself within a few years.

Puckdropper
--
This signature line will explode in 2, h, E, 5, 1

Puckdropper wrote:
....
I'm partial to the system I've got in the shopwarehouse* myself. It's in
slab hot water, so once the slab gets warm heat recovery is very quick if
the garage door needs to be opened. (It's a big garage door. 10x17)
When the temperature approaches 0, the shop is still nice and warm.

I hear ya', brother. If I only had a new slab to put it into...

I've talked for 10 years of building a real shop building instead for
equipment as well as wood/metal shop instead of trying to get by w/ the
old barn and continuing to make do outside...

--

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:16:42 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
scrawled the following:

Leon wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
The heater above is a cute little toy, would probably work well in a desk
cubby hole for an office.

Trying to heat an un-insulated, 2 car garage in central Indiana in the
middle of winter with a 1500W heater has about as much a chance of doing
the job as you have trying to smell an ameba fart from 100 ft away in a
hurricane.

Probably right Lew! But not all of us work in the shop only wearig out swim
trunks.

Now that's a mental picture I didn't need to see. LOL!

Welding naked is the hardest thing for me.

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:24:32 -0600, the infamous -MIKE-
scrawled the following:

Just got this in a newsletter...

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2009november/heater.html

Run away!

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

On 03 Nov 2009 23:40:50 GMT, the infamous Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

Bill, as I said, insulate that space and use a fan-blown electric
heater or two (on separate circuits, yeah?) to get the space heated so
you can work. I saw you link to a convection heater. Forget that.
Forced air is the only type of heat to have, period. I worked in a
shipping and receiving area in a warehouse in '75. It had radiant
heaters and we were always cold. I moved to Oregon and the house came
with 240v baseboard heaters (convection). When they were running, my
ankles were cold and when I stood up, my forehead instantly broke out
in a sweat. I immediately installed a nice Carrier HVAC. It's my first
air-conditioned home/shop and I love it. (For $6k, I'd better, huh?
But I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm gas heated.)

Convected air stratifies, forced air blends. For comfort, go with
forced air.


I'm partial to the system I've got in the shopwarehouse* myself. It's in
slab hot water, so once the slab gets warm heat recovery is very quick if
the garage door needs to be opened. (It's a big garage door. 10x17)
When the temperature approaches 0, the shop is still nice and warm.

That's an extremely expensive option, but it seems like a good one
otherwise. I still haven't experienced it anywhere.


No idea how much propane the boiler actually uses itself, this will be
the first year heating the house through electric forced air.

(*shopwarehouse: building used for storing every else's junk. Wish
they'd find somewhere else to put it.)

Put up ceiling-mounted shelving. With it high, high up there, it's
hard for them to get to. They'll take their crap back into the house.
evil grinne

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry Jaques wrote in
:


Put up ceiling-mounted shelving. With it high, high up there, it's
hard for them to get to. They'll take their crap back into the house.
evil grinne


Back? I've got stuff in there that has no idea we even have a house!
(It's not mine, I can't do anything with it except move it.)

I've got a little bit of ceiling mounted shelving. I've been wanting to
put up more, but just haven't gotten to it yet.

Puckdropper
--
minus minus space end-of-line

dpb wrote in
:

Puckdropper wrote:
...
I'm partial to the system I've got in the shopwarehouse* myself.
It's in slab hot water, so once the slab gets warm heat recovery is
very quick if the garage door needs to be opened. (It's a big garage
door. 10x17) When the temperature approaches 0, the shop is still
nice and warm.

I hear ya', brother. If I only had a new slab to put it into...

I've talked for 10 years of building a real shop building instead for
equipment as well as wood/metal shop instead of trying to get by w/
the old barn and continuing to make do outside...

Let me introduce the Festool shop saver program! When you purchase a
tool, figure out what the equivalent Festool tool would cost. Put the
difference in your "build a proper shop" fund and when you have enough do
it. Once you get your shop built, you're already used to paying Festool
prices, so just keep doing it, only this time buy the real thing.

:-)

Puckdropper
--
--

On 04 Nov 2009 07:43:06 GMT, the infamous Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:


Put up ceiling-mounted shelving. With it high, high up there, it's
hard for them to get to. They'll take their crap back into the house.
evil grinne


Back? I've got stuff in there that has no idea we even have a house!
(It's not mine, I can't do anything with it except move it.)

Not yours but can't dispose of it? What, are you renting? Throw the
landlord out! Would some accidental sawdust in the boxes help?


I've got a little bit of ceiling mounted shelving. I've been wanting to
put up more, but just haven't gotten to it yet.

Here. http://www.passco.com/tuit.htm Now go do shelving, suh. If that
one wasn't enough, here are some mo http://fwd4.me/2hz I'm
particularly fond of the Roman model, but the Egyptshine model is
grand, too. That Queen Neffatuit is a hottie, wot?

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

On 04 Nov 2009 07:48:00 GMT, the infamous Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com scrawled the following:

dpb wrote in
:

Puckdropper wrote:
...
I'm partial to the system I've got in the shopwarehouse* myself.
It's in slab hot water, so once the slab gets warm heat recovery is
very quick if the garage door needs to be opened. (It's a big garage
door. 10x17) When the temperature approaches 0, the shop is still
nice and warm.

I hear ya', brother. If I only had a new slab to put it into...

I've talked for 10 years of building a real shop building instead for
equipment as well as wood/metal shop instead of trying to get by w/
the old barn and continuing to make do outside...

Let me introduce the Festool shop saver program! When you purchase a
tool, figure out what the equivalent Festool tool would cost. Put the
difference in your "build a proper shop" fund and when you have enough do
it. Once you get your shop built, you're already used to paying Festool
prices, so just keep doing it, only this time buy the real thing.

:-)

Excellent idea. But with the new OHCA (Obama Health Care Abomination)
about to hit, who has that kind of (oh, what's that word?) um,
expendable capital?

My Amazone wishlist has a Fein Multimaster ($400) in it, but the
comment I added was "(giggle) OR, get the Harbor Freight 67256 at $60,
hmm, $40 on sale now!"

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry Jaques wrote:
....
I've talked for 10 years of building a real shop building instead for
equipment as well as wood/metal shop instead of trying to get by w/
the old barn and continuing to make do outside...
Let me introduce the Festool shop saver program! When you purchase a
tool, figure out what the equivalent Festool tool would cost. Put the
difference in your "build a proper shop" fund and when you have enough do
it. Once you get your shop built, you're already used to paying Festool
prices, so just keep doing it, only this time buy the real thing.

:-)

Excellent idea. But with the new OHCA (Obama Health Care Abomination)
about to hit, who has that kind of (oh, what's that word?) um,
expendable capital?

My Amazone wishlist has a Fein Multimaster ($400) in it, but the
comment I added was "(giggle) OR, get the Harbor Freight 67256 at $60,
hmm, $40 on sale now!"

....



W/ a new corn header alone about $150k, under $3 corn/$5 wheat and over
$2 ag diesel the shop fund hasn't gone quite far enough yet to make the
kitty fill up very far...

--

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On 04 Nov 2009 07:43:06 GMT, the infamous Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote in
m:


Put up ceiling-mounted shelving. With it high, high up there, it's
hard for them to get to. They'll take their crap back into the
house. evil grinne


Back? I've got stuff in there that has no idea we even have a house!
(It's not mine, I can't do anything with it except move it.)

Not yours but can't dispose of it? What, are you renting? Throw the
landlord out! Would some accidental sawdust in the boxes help?

It's stuff that belongs to other people in the family, and it's easier
to keep out in the garage than it is to shove it in the house. I've
already done quite a bit of that.


I've got a little bit of ceiling mounted shelving. I've been wanting
to put up more, but just haven't gotten to it yet.

Here. http://www.passco.com/tuit.htm Now go do shelving, suh. If that
one wasn't enough, here are some mo http://fwd4.me/2hz I'm
particularly fond of the Roman model, but the Egyptshine model is
grand, too. That Queen Neffatuit is a hottie, wot?

That's great! Do they have anything for solving more pressing matters?
I've got a problem with an exterior door letting moisture in...

Puckdropper
--
Idiocy begins with 'I' er...um...

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:


Put up ceiling-mounted shelving. With it high, high up there, it's
hard for them to get to. They'll take their crap back into the house.
evil grinne


Back? I've got stuff in there that has no idea we even have a house!
(It's not mine, I can't do anything with it except move it.)

A friend of mine has a simple policy - stuff not his left at his house
more than two years becomes his to dispose of at his whim and leisure.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Bill" wrote in
:


I have an attached 400 ft^2 (20' by 20') 2-car garage with an
(electric) insulated garage door.

What is a smart way to warm it up (to say 60 degrees)? Options appear
to be kerosene, propane and electric.
I assume that propane may be the cleanest and/or cheapest. How
concerned should I be
about exhaust fumes (at this point, they concern me)?

The garage has some unfinished walls and a finished ceiling. Is
occasionally warming it up likely to produce condensation
on walls and lead to their damage? I assume that unprotected metal
will be even more at risk.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Bill



Hey Bill,

Check these out. Someone from Highland Woodworking in Atlanta review it in
their latest newsletter.

http://www.sunrayz.us/ceramic.html

I have no personal connection with the manuf. just happened to be reading
about it.

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
53.161...
"Bill" wrote in
:


I have an attached 400 ft^2 (20' by 20') 2-car garage with an
(electric) insulated garage door.

What is a smart way to warm it up (to say 60 degrees)? Options appear
to be kerosene, propane and electric.
I assume that propane may be the cleanest and/or cheapest. How
concerned should I be
about exhaust fumes (at this point, they concern me)?

The garage has some unfinished walls and a finished ceiling. Is
occasionally warming it up likely to produce condensation
on walls and lead to their damage? I assume that unprotected metal
will be even more at risk.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Bill



Hey Bill,

Check these out. Someone from Highland Woodworking in Atlanta review it in
their latest newsletter.

http://www.sunrayz.us/ceramic.html

I have no personal connection with the manuf. just happened to be reading
about it.

Steve

Thank you Steve, but I think I've learned that what is necessary to warm
your garage in Atlanta
and what is necessary to warm your garage in central Indiana are miles
apart--at least
during the cooler months.

Bill

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:00:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The only thing you are overlooking is the Btu output. In my garage, it
would raise the temperature about 1 degree.

You must have a very large garage or not have much in the way of
insulation. I have a much smaller shop, but 5000 BTUs will overheat it
in about 3 hours with an outside temperatuure of 30F. Thats about
3.5-4.0 BTUs per cubic foot.

At that efficiency 35K BTUs would heat 10,000 cubic feet. Or 1000 square
feet with a 10 foot ceiling. That's plenty for a 2 car garage.

Walls are insulated, ceiling is not yet. It is a one 20 x 26 or so.
Ceiling is 8' to beams, but open above with a pitched roof. I use a 30,000
Btu propane heater and don't even bother trying below about 20 degrees or
so.

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:22:42 -0500, the infamous "Ed Pawlowski"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:00:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The only thing you are overlooking is the Btu output. In my garage, it
would raise the temperature about 1 degree.

You must have a very large garage or not have much in the way of
insulation. I have a much smaller shop, but 5000 BTUs will overheat it
in about 3 hours with an outside temperatuure of 30F. Thats about
3.5-4.0 BTUs per cubic foot.

At that efficiency 35K BTUs would heat 10,000 cubic feet. Or 1000 square
feet with a 10 foot ceiling. That's plenty for a 2 car garage.

Walls are insulated, ceiling is not yet. It is a one 20 x 26 or so.
Ceiling is 8' to beams, but open above with a pitched roof.

So slap up some OSB or drywall for a ceiling and rent a blower at the
local BORG/hardware store and blow in a foot of cellulose. That's
cheaper than paying another season's fuel bills.

Pad and carpet the floor for more comfort. titter

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Bill" wrote in
:


"Steve" wrote in message
53.161...
"Bill" wrote in
:


I have an attached 400 ft^2 (20' by 20') 2-car garage with an
(electric) insulated garage door.

What is a smart way to warm it up (to say 60 degrees)? Options
appear to be kerosene, propane and electric.
I assume that propane may be the cleanest and/or cheapest. How
concerned should I be
about exhaust fumes (at this point, they concern me)?

The garage has some unfinished walls and a finished ceiling. Is
occasionally warming it up likely to produce condensation
on walls and lead to their damage? I assume that unprotected metal
will be even more at risk.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Bill



Hey Bill,

Check these out. Someone from Highland Woodworking in Atlanta review
it in their latest newsletter.

http://www.sunrayz.us/ceramic.html

I have no personal connection with the manuf. just happened to be
reading about it.

Steve

Thank you Steve, but I think I've learned that what is necessary to
warm your garage in Atlanta
and what is necessary to warm your garage in central Indiana are miles
apart--at least
during the cooler months.

Bill




Bill,

The person who did the review lived in Racine Wisconsin.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/w...er/heater.html

"Steve" wrote in message
. 153.164...
"Bill" wrote in
:


"Steve" wrote in message
53.161...
"Bill" wrote in
:


I have an attached 400 ft^2 (20' by 20') 2-car garage with an
(electric) insulated garage door.

What is a smart way to warm it up (to say 60 degrees)? Options
appear to be kerosene, propane and electric.
I assume that propane may be the cleanest and/or cheapest. How
concerned should I be
about exhaust fumes (at this point, they concern me)?

The garage has some unfinished walls and a finished ceiling. Is
occasionally warming it up likely to produce condensation
on walls and lead to their damage? I assume that unprotected metal
will be even more at risk.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Bill



Hey Bill,

Check these out. Someone from Highland Woodworking in Atlanta review
it in their latest newsletter.

http://www.sunrayz.us/ceramic.html

I have no personal connection with the manuf. just happened to be
reading about it.

Steve

Thank you Steve, but I think I've learned that what is necessary to
warm your garage in Atlanta
and what is necessary to warm your garage in central Indiana are miles
apart--at least
during the cooler months.

Bill




Bill,

The person who did the review lived in Racine Wisconsin.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/w...er/heater.html


It was an interesting article. Thank you for posting the link to it. This
winter, I'll
probably be dressing warm! This thread has prompted me to think about
installing
more insulation too.

Bill

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
Walls are insulated, ceiling is not yet. It is a one 20 x 26 or so.
Ceiling is 8' to beams, but open above with a pitched roof.

So slap up some OSB or drywall for a ceiling and rent a blower at the
local BORG/hardware store and blow in a foot of cellulose. That's
cheaper than paying another season's fuel bills.


I'll do that right after I convince my wife we don't need the stuff stored
up there over the beams.

PDQ wrote:

Now, if you have any pocket pleasing ideas on how to turn my 70 foot south roof into a viable solar collector, "Lay on MacDuff".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1155306582056#
--
Jack
Got Change: General Motors ======= Government Motors!
http://jbstein.com

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 23:26:07 -0500, the infamous "Ed Pawlowski"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
Walls are insulated, ceiling is not yet. It is a one 20 x 26 or so.
Ceiling is 8' to beams, but open above with a pitched roof.

So slap up some OSB or drywall for a ceiling and rent a blower at the
local BORG/hardware store and blow in a foot of cellulose. That's
cheaper than paying another season's fuel bills.


I'll do that right after I convince my wife we don't need the stuff stored
up there over the beams.

Ask her one question: Is the stuff stored above the garage/shop worth
putting into one of the pay storabe places? Once most people look at
it realistically, they toss a whole lot of stuff and save a whole lot
of money.

Your mission, Mr. Pawlowski, should you choose to accept it, is to
convince your wife that she's already paying money to store that crap
and that she really wants to toss it. Good luck.

This post will self-destruct in twenty seconds...

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson