In article , -MIKE- wrote:

Like dadiOH wrote, if you have a 150 degree corner, you can't set the
miter saw to 75 degrees, so why would they display that?

Because to cut an angle of 75 degrees, you set the gauge on the saw to 15.

Doug Miller wrote:
Oh, I agree entirely. Like I said earlier, it's worse than useless, because
using it is more effort than not using it. So why bother?

pfft!

"using it is more effort than not using it"

That's funny.

Why? The entire point of using tools is to make tasks easier. If a tool fails
to save effort, such that using it to perform a task requires as much effort
as doing that task manually, the tool is useless. If it requires more effort,
it's worse than useless. What's amusing about that?


Doug, I agree. It's a funny saying. It's mine, now. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , -MIKE- wrote:
Like dadiOH wrote, if you have a 150 degree corner, you can't set the
miter saw to 75 degrees, so why would they display that?

Because to cut an angle of 75 degrees, you set the gauge on the saw to 15.

Right, that's why it would display that on the obtuse side.
I'm thinking it's correct, but could still use some options for the
display.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:27:14 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:41:34 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

The wrong angle.
In the case of my original example, I would have a 20 degree gap in my
joint.

Only if you use the cutoff instead of the workpiece.

You do have to remember that with acute angles, the cutoff is on one
side of the blade and with obtuse angles the cutoff is on the opposite
side of the blade. Which is which depends on whether you use a left or
right miter setting.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA


Please ignore, major brain fart! Most days I understand that an angled
cut across a straight member produces supplementary angles instead of
complements. Only excuse I can offer is that maybe I was thinking of
compound mitering crown molding where sometimes you keep the piece on
the right and other times the piece on the left.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:38:00 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Curious where you got that definition. I would use a definition of

Kinda made it up to so that it defines the setting on the miter gauge
necessary to cut the angle, which, as you stated, is the complement of
"1/2 the included angle" = 90 - 1/2 the included angle.

I guess we need to define exactly what we are talking about when we
say "miter angle". The "miter angle = 1/2 the included angle"
definition gives the angle of the cut measured from the "long axis" of
the board which is essentially useless when setting up to make the
cut. The "miter angle" that has to be set on the saw or miter gauge is
measured off the "short axis" of the cut.

Set the miter gauge (miter angle?) to:

0° for a square cut (180° included angle = 90° - 180°/2 = 90°)
22.5° for an octagon (135° included angle = 90° - 135°/2 = 22.5°),
30° for a hexagon (120° included angle = 90° - 120°/2 = 30°)
45° for a rectangle (90° included angle = 90° - 90°/2 = 45°)

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:47:52 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

In your first example, however, if I have corner and I cut two pieces
with 45.5 degree angles on them, I'll have a corner at 91 degrees, no?

I think the confusion is in the definition of "miter angle". If the
45.5° angle is measured from the "long side" of the board to the cut
line, then yes, your corner will be at 91°. But the setting on the
saw/miter gauge to make that cut is the complement of that angle. In
other words, the "miter angle" you set on the saw/miter gauge is
measured off the square 90° cut. So to get a 90° square cut, the
saw/miter gauge is set to 0° (which to me is a "miter angle" of 0°)

To get the 45.5° angle on the cut piece, the "miter angle" setting on
the saw or gauge would be 90-45.5 = 44.5

I may be swimming against the stream on that definition, but the
"miter angle" definition that is most meaningful to the guy setting up
the cut is the "angle you have to set on the miter gauge" to get the
angle needed on the workpiece.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

-MIKE- wrote:
Tom Veatch wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:41:34 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

The wrong angle.
In the case of my original example, I would have a 20 degree gap in
my joint.

Only if you use the cutoff instead of the workpiece.

You do have to remember that with acute angles, the cutoff is on one
side of the blade and with obtuse angles the cutoff is on the
opposite side of the blade. Which is which depends on whether you
use a left or right miter setting.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA



Ok, I'm beginning to picture this, now.

I still say they should program the chip so you have a choice of what
angle you want displayed, kept side, cutoff side, left setting, right
setting, whatever.

Like dadiOH wrote, if you have a 150 degree corner, you can't set the
miter saw to 75 degrees, so why would they display that?

Praise be and hallelujah! At last...

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:


OK, suppose it did. Suppose you have a 150 degree corner and you
want to cut miters for it. The device tells you to set up a 75
degree cut. How do you propose setting that up?

That's easy: set the miter gauge at (90 - 75) = 15.

Right. Please note that is what the gizmo under discussion does...tells you
to set as you said.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article , "dadiOH" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:


OK, suppose it did. Suppose you have a 150 degree corner and you
want to cut miters for it. The device tells you to set up a 75
degree cut. How do you propose setting that up?

That's easy: set the miter gauge at (90 - 75) = 15.

Right. Please note that is what the gizmo under discussion does...tells you
to set as you said.

No, it's not. As described in the original post, that is what the gizmo under
discussion does _for obtuse angles only_; for acute angles, it reads the
actual angle, not the necessary gauge setting to cut that angle.[*]

And *that*, my friend, is why it's a useless POS. To make use of it, you must
remember (a) that whether the reading represents the gauge setting or the
actual miter angle depends on whether the corner angle is acute or obtuse,
*and* (b) which way is which. It's much less effort, and much less
error-prone, to simply measure the angle with a protractor and do the
calculations.

[* Quoted from the original post: "... If the angle of the corner is 89
degrees, the miter reading displays 44.5 degrees. But if the angle of the
corner is 91 degrees, the miter reading also displays 44.5 degrees. ..."]

dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Tom Veatch wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:41:34 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

The wrong angle.
In the case of my original example, I would have a 20 degree gap in
my joint.
Only if you use the cutoff instead of the workpiece.

You do have to remember that with acute angles, the cutoff is on one
side of the blade and with obtuse angles the cutoff is on the
opposite side of the blade. Which is which depends on whether you
use a left or right miter setting.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA


Ok, I'm beginning to picture this, now.

I still say they should program the chip so you have a choice of what
angle you want displayed, kept side, cutoff side, left setting, right
setting, whatever.

Like dadiOH wrote, if you have a 150 degree corner, you can't set the
miter saw to 75 degrees, so why would they display that?

Praise be and hallelujah! At last...


I still contend that the little chip (which any computer programming
freshman could do) should offer options for the user, depending on which
way they want to measure the angle.

My 12" CMS goes to almost 50 degrees in both directions, which enables
me to handle many slightly obtuse (carpenter was hungover) corner trim
pieces.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Doug Miller wrote:
And *that*, my friend, is why it's a useless POS. To make use of it, you must
remember (a) that whether the reading represents the gauge setting or the
actual miter angle depends on whether the corner angle is acute or obtuse,
*and* (b) which way is which. It's much less effort, and much less
error-prone, to simply measure the angle with a protractor and do the
calculations.

[* Quoted from the original post: "... If the angle of the corner is 89
degrees, the miter reading displays 44.5 degrees. But if the angle of the
corner is 91 degrees, the miter reading also displays 44.5 degrees. ..."]


And I think most of our CMS's can account for at least a few degrees
obtuse.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Tom Veatch wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:47:52 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

In your first example, however, if I have corner and I cut two pieces
with 45.5 degree angles on them, I'll have a corner at 91 degrees, no?

I think the confusion is in the definition of "miter angle". If the
45.5° angle is measured from the "long side" of the board to the cut
line, then yes, your corner will be at 91°. But the setting on the
saw/miter gauge to make that cut is the complement of that angle. In
other words, the "miter angle" you set on the saw/miter gauge is
measured off the square 90° cut. So to get a 90° square cut, the
saw/miter gauge is set to 0° (which to me is a "miter angle" of 0°)

To get the 45.5° angle on the cut piece, the "miter angle" setting on
the saw or gauge would be 90-45.5 = 44.5

I may be swimming against the stream on that definition, but the
"miter angle" definition that is most meaningful to the guy setting up
the cut is the "angle you have to set on the miter gauge" to get the
angle needed on the workpiece.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA


Cool. My CMS goes 0-48 in each direction (with a nudge, I can get about
51).
I saw one, once, that had another scale 90-180 underneath, which I
thought was way cool.

So with most not-on-purpose out-of-square corners, I can handle just
cutting the corner angle in half.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Tom Veatch wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:41:34 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

The wrong angle.
In the case of my original example, I would have a 20 degree gap
in my joint.
Only if you use the cutoff instead of the workpiece.

You do have to remember that with acute angles, the cutoff is on
one side of the blade and with obtuse angles the cutoff is on the
opposite side of the blade. Which is which depends on whether you
use a left or right miter setting.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA


Ok, I'm beginning to picture this, now.

I still say they should program the chip so you have a choice of
what angle you want displayed, kept side, cutoff side, left
setting, right setting, whatever.

Like dadiOH wrote, if you have a 150 degree corner, you can't set
the miter saw to 75 degrees, so why would they display that?

Praise be and hallelujah! At last...


I still contend that the little chip (which any computer programming
freshman could do) should offer options for the user, depending on
which way they want to measure the angle.

My 12" CMS goes to almost 50 degrees in both directions, which enables
me to handle many slightly obtuse (carpenter was hungover) corner trim
pieces.

Carpenter didn't have one of those handy gizmos like you do (or, he hocked
his square); rocker was hungover

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:


OK, suppose it did. Suppose you have a 150 degree corner and you
want to cut miters for it. The device tells you to set up a 75
degree cut. How do you propose setting that up?

That's easy: set the miter gauge at (90 - 75) = 15.

Right. Please note that is what the gizmo under discussion
does...tells you to set as you said.

No, it's not. As described in the original post, that is what the
gizmo under discussion does _for obtuse angles only_; for acute
angles, it reads the
actual angle, not the necessary gauge setting to cut that angle.[*]

As you quote, if the angle is 89 the reading is 44.5...that's an acute angle
and it tells you to set the gauge at 44.5. Seems right to me.
_________

And *that*, my friend, is why it's a useless POS. To make use of it,
you must
remember (a) that whether the reading represents the gauge setting or
the
actual miter angle depends on whether the corner angle is acute or
obtuse, *and* (b) which way is which. It's much less effort, and much
less
error-prone, to simply measure the angle with a protractor and do the
calculations.

There is hope for MIKE, none for you...
___________

[* Quoted from the original post: "... If the angle of the corner is
89
degrees, the miter reading displays 44.5 degrees. But if the angle of
the
corner is 91 degrees, the miter reading also displays 44.5 degrees.
..."]


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article , "dadiOH" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:


OK, suppose it did. Suppose you have a 150 degree corner and you
want to cut miters for it. The device tells you to set up a 75
degree cut. How do you propose setting that up?

That's easy: set the miter gauge at (90 - 75) = 15.

Right. Please note that is what the gizmo under discussion
does...tells you to set as you said.

No, it's not. As described in the original post, that is what the
gizmo under discussion does _for obtuse angles only_; for acute
angles, it reads the
actual angle, not the necessary gauge setting to cut that angle.[*]

As you quote, if the angle is 89 the reading is 44.5...that's an acute angle
and it tells you to set the gauge at 44.5. Seems right to me.

I guess that's why we disagree: because you don't realize that while that
*seems* right to you, it's *not*.

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you set the miter
gauge at? Zero.

That's because miter gauges do not indicate the actual angle being cut; they
indicate the angle's offset from 90 degrees. So to cut an angle of 44.5
degrees, you set the gauge at (90 - 44.5) = 45.5 degrees.

In any event, it should be clear that if the device reads 44.5 for *both*
89-degree and 91-degree corners, then one or the other of those readings
*must* be wrong.
_________

And *that*, my friend, is why it's a useless POS. To make use of it, you must
remember (a) that whether the reading represents the gauge setting or the
actual miter angle depends on whether the corner angle is acute or
obtuse, *and* (b) which way is which. It's much less effort, and much less
error-prone, to simply measure the angle with a protractor and do the
calculations.

There is hope for MIKE, none for you...

Needless to say, I disagree. It's clear that you have a fundamental
misunderstanding of the geometry involved.
___________

[* Quoted from the original post: "... If the angle of the corner is 89
degrees, the miter reading displays 44.5 degrees. But if the angle of the
corner is 91 degrees, the miter reading also displays 44.5 degrees. ..."]

Do you maintain that both of these readings are correct?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:


OK, suppose it did. Suppose you have a 150 degree corner and you
want to cut miters for it. The device tells you to set up a 75
degree cut. How do you propose setting that up?

That's easy: set the miter gauge at (90 - 75) = 15.

Right. Please note that is what the gizmo under discussion
does...tells you to set as you said.

No, it's not. As described in the original post, that is what the
gizmo under discussion does _for obtuse angles only_; for acute
angles, it reads the
actual angle, not the necessary gauge setting to cut that angle.[*]

As you quote, if the angle is 89 the reading is 44.5...that's an
acute angle and it tells you to set the gauge at 44.5. Seems right
to me.

I guess that's why we disagree: because you don't realize that while
that *seems* right to you, it's *not*.

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you set
the miter
gauge at? Zero.

Right. And that's where the gizmo would tell one to set it.
___________

That's because miter gauges do not indicate the actual angle being
cut; they
indicate the angle's offset from 90 degrees. So to cut an angle of
44.5
degrees, you set the gauge at (90 - 44.5) = 45.5 degrees.

Right

In any event, it should be clear that if the device reads 44.5 for
*both* 89-degree and 91-degree corners, then one or the other of
those readings *must* be wrong.

Nope, both are correct.

Let's exaggerate the corners a bit...make one 100 degrees, the other 80. In
both cases the gizmo will tell one to set the gauge at 10 degrees, right?
OK, lets set the gauge there and cut a piece of wood. We now have two
pieces of wood and each piece has one corner that is 10 degrees and another
corner that is 80 degrees, right? So where's the problem?
_________

And *that*, my friend, is why it's a useless POS. To make use of
it, you must remember (a) that whether the reading represents the
gauge setting or the actual miter angle depends on whether the
corner angle is acute or
obtuse, *and* (b) which way is which. It's much less effort, and
much less error-prone, to simply measure the angle with a
protractor and do the calculations.

There is hope for MIKE, none for you...

Needless to say, I disagree. It's clear that you have a fundamental
misunderstanding of the geometry involved.

Well, I aced Euclidean geometry, did less well at analytical geometry (in my
defense, the prof was a Yugoslav and *very* hard to understand).

___________

[* Quoted from the original post: "... If the angle of the corner
is 89 degrees, the miter reading displays 44.5 degrees. But if the
angle of the corner is 91 degrees, the miter reading also displays
44.5 degrees. ..."]

Do you maintain that both of these readings are correct?

Yes. Setting the miter gauge at those settings will give a correct cut in
each case, you just have to orient wood to blade properly; i.e., swing the
gauge clockwise or counter-clockwise to get what you want. That or use the
offcut for one corner. Try drawing it out on paper.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article , "dadiOH" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:


OK, suppose it did. Suppose you have a 150 degree corner and you
want to cut miters for it. The device tells you to set up a 75
degree cut. How do you propose setting that up?

That's easy: set the miter gauge at (90 - 75) = 15.

Right. Please note that is what the gizmo under discussion
does...tells you to set as you said.

No, it's not. As described in the original post, that is what the
gizmo under discussion does _for obtuse angles only_; for acute
angles, it reads the
actual angle, not the necessary gauge setting to cut that angle.[*]

As you quote, if the angle is 89 the reading is 44.5...that's an
acute angle and it tells you to set the gauge at 44.5. Seems right
to me.

I guess that's why we disagree: because you don't realize that while
that *seems* right to you, it's *not*.

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you set the miter
gauge at? Zero.

Right. And that's where the gizmo would tell one to set it.

Yes...... but there's still something you're missing.

Perhaps this will help: suppose you want to cut a 60-degree angle. What do you
set the miter gauge at?

___________

That's because miter gauges do not indicate the actual angle being cut; they
indicate the angle's offset from 90 degrees. So to cut an angle of 44.5
degrees, you set the gauge at (90 - 44.5) = 45.5 degrees.

Right

In any event, it should be clear that if the device reads 44.5 for
*both* 89-degree and 91-degree corners, then one or the other of
those readings *must* be wrong.

Nope, both are correct.

Impossible. Think about it: how could you fit both an 89-degree outside
corner, *and* a 91-degree outside corner, with the same pieces???

Let's exaggerate the corners a bit...make one 100 degrees, the other 80. In
both cases the gizmo will tell one to set the gauge at 10 degrees, right?

Wrong. It would read 40. Refer to the description from the OP quoted below.

OK, lets set the gauge there and cut a piece of wood. We now have two
pieces of wood and each piece has one corner that is 10 degrees and another
corner that is 80 degrees, right?

Wrong. Each piece has one corner that's *100* degrees and one corner that's 80
degrees (and, obviously, two corners 90 degrees each, on the ends away from
the cut). And when you flip one over and put the miters together so as to fit
an outside corner, they _will not_ fit a 100-degree corner.

I leave it to you to determine what angle outside corner they _will_ fit.

So where's the problem?

ISTM that you misunderstand the purpose of the device. As described by the OP,
it appears to be *intended* to display the miter angles necessary to fit two
pieces of wood around an outside corner; you certainly won't achieve that in
the manner you describe.


_________

And *that*, my friend, is why it's a useless POS. To make use of
it, you must remember (a) that whether the reading represents the
gauge setting or the actual miter angle depends on whether the
corner angle is acute or
obtuse, *and* (b) which way is which. It's much less effort, and
much less error-prone, to simply measure the angle with a
protractor and do the calculations.

There is hope for MIKE, none for you...

Needless to say, I disagree. It's clear that you have a fundamental
misunderstanding of the geometry involved.

Well, I aced Euclidean geometry, did less well at analytical geometry (in my
defense, the prof was a Yugoslav and *very* hard to understand).

That evidently was a long time in the past.

___________

[* Quoted from the original post: "... If the angle of the corner
is 89 degrees, the miter reading displays 44.5 degrees. But if the
angle of the corner is 91 degrees, the miter reading also displays
44.5 degrees. ..."]

Do you maintain that both of these readings are correct?

Yes. Setting the miter gauge at those settings will give a correct cut in
each case, you just have to orient wood to blade properly; i.e., swing the
gauge clockwise or counter-clockwise to get what you want. That or use the
offcut for one corner. Try drawing it out on paper.

I have an alternative suggestion for you: construct an object with 80-degree
and 100-degree outside corners, cut four pieces of wood according to your own
descriptions, and then try fitting them around those outside corners. That
should be a more than ample demonstration to you of exactly where your
misunderstanding lies.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you set
the miter gauge at? Zero.

Right. And that's where the gizmo would tell one to set it.

Wait...I answered too quickly.

On my table saw miter gauge I would set it at 90 degrees. On my radial arm
saw, at 0 degrees.
____________

Yes...... but there's still something you're missing.

Perhaps this will help: suppose you want to cut a 60-degree angle.
What do you
set the miter gauge at?

At 60 degrees on my table saw gauge. That gets me a boards with 60 degree
pointy ends measured from the board edge. Haven't cut anything except
straight cuts on the RAS for a decade or more.
___________

That's because miter gauges do not indicate the actual angle being
cut; they indicate the angle's offset from 90 degrees. So to cut an
angle of 44.5 degrees, you set the gauge at (90 - 44.5) = 45.5
degrees.

True for RAS, not the table saw.
_____________

In any event, it should be clear that if the device reads 44.5 for
*both* 89-degree and 91-degree corners, then one or the other of
those readings *must* be wrong.

Nope, both are correct.

Impossible. Think about it: how could you fit both an 89-degree
outside
corner, *and* a 91-degree outside corner, with the same pieces???

Cut one piece on a table saw?
_____________

I have an alternative suggestion for you: construct an object with
80-degree
and 100-degree outside corners, cut four pieces of wood according to
your own descriptions, and then try fitting them around those outside
corners. That
should be a more than ample demonstration to you of exactly where your
misunderstanding lies.

My main problem is that I should have stayed out of this thread in the first
place

I'm sick of miters and intend to spend my few remaining years promoting
KISBI (keep it simple, butt it).

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article , "dadiOH" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you set
the miter gauge at? Zero.

Right. And that's where the gizmo would tell one to set it.

Wait...I answered too quickly.

On my table saw miter gauge I would set it at 90 degrees. On my radial arm
saw, at 0 degrees.

What table saw miter gauge is *that*??

Every table saw miter gauge I have ever seen reads *zero* for a perpendicular
crosscut. What do you have, that reads 90?
____________

Yes...... but there's still something you're missing.

Perhaps this will help: suppose you want to cut a 60-degree angle.
What do you
set the miter gauge at?

At 60 degrees on my table saw gauge.

Again: what gauge are you using???

That gets me a boards with 60 degree
pointy ends measured from the board edge.

It wouldn't get you that on my Incra 3000. Nor on the Incra 1000 that it
replaced. Nor on the stock miter gauges that came with my current table saw,
or either of my two previous table saws, or my currrent band saw, or the
previous band saw. Nor on any other table saw miter gauge that I have ever
seen.

Haven't cut anything except
straight cuts on the RAS for a decade or more.
___________

That's because miter gauges do not indicate the actual angle being
cut; they indicate the angle's offset from 90 degrees. So to cut an
angle of 44.5 degrees, you set the gauge at (90 - 44.5) = 45.5
degrees.

True for RAS, not the table saw.

Maybe not true for *your* table saw, but it's certainly true for the vast
majority of table saw miter gauges -- representative example he
http://www.incra.com/images/miter_ga...y/miterv27.jpg
_____________

In any event, it should be clear that if the device reads 44.5 for
*both* 89-degree and 91-degree corners, then one or the other of
those readings *must* be wrong.

Nope, both are correct.

Impossible. Think about it: how could you fit both an 89-degree
outside
corner, *and* a 91-degree outside corner, with the same pieces???

Cut one piece on a table saw?

Well, I think I'm understanding the source of your confusion a little better
now: you evidently have a very unusual miter gauge on your TS.
_____________

I have an alternative suggestion for you: construct an object with
80-degree
and 100-degree outside corners, cut four pieces of wood according to
your own descriptions, and then try fitting them around those outside
corners. That
should be a more than ample demonstration to you of exactly where your
misunderstanding lies.

My main problem is that I should have stayed out of this thread in the first
place

I'm sick of miters and intend to spend my few remaining years promoting
KISBI (keep it simple, butt it).

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you
set the miter gauge at? Zero.

Right. And that's where the gizmo would tell one to set it.

Wait...I answered too quickly.

On my table saw miter gauge I would set it at 90 degrees. On my
radial arm saw, at 0 degrees.

What table saw miter gauge is *that*??

The one that came with this Grizzly saw several years ago when it was right
tilt and tube rails.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1023SL/images/2

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
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Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article , "dadiOH" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "dadiOH"
wrote:

Suppose you want to cut a right angle (90 degrees). What do you
set the miter gauge at? Zero.

Right. And that's where the gizmo would tell one to set it.

Wait...I answered too quickly.

On my table saw miter gauge I would set it at 90 degrees. On my
radial arm saw, at 0 degrees.

What table saw miter gauge is *that*??

The one that came with this Grizzly saw several years ago when it was right
tilt and tube rails.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1023SL/images/2

In my experience, that's ... unusual.