I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

I assume you mean a 1/4" x 1/4" rabbet at the edge not a dado, just a
little terminology thang, a dado is a channel or slot and a rabbet is
a step.

I don't think you have any "major" strength issue regarding the frame.
If the panel is solid wood then a 1/4" thick is a little unstable and
maybe weak. A 1/2" thick solid wood panel will have a much better
chance of staying flat over the ages. The full 1/2" thickness also
adds some heft to the door. Finally, regrading strength, having the
rabbet will add "some" racking strength to the frame by not allowing
the frame to fall out of square because the square panel edge of the
rabbets hold it in place sort of. You can do it either way really, its
done that way all the time. It's just the classic detail they use I
suppose and does have some advantages.


On Apr 9, 11:42*am, Brian wrote:
I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. *In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? *Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? *I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

"Brian" wrote in message
...
I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!


You can use 1/4" plywood however it will likely be too thin because 1/4"
plywood is not 1/4" thick, it will not fill the 1/4" slot. If you rabbit
the 1/2" panel on the back side you can get an exact fit. Neither panel
will add integrity or strength as 99.99% of the time you don't glue the
panel in to start with. It should float. Further, if you are going to
stain the project, stain the panels before assembly. Eventually the rails
and stiles will expand or shrink and reveal more of the panel.

Brian wrote:
I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

You certainly could use 1/4" plywood (but in this case the groove will
need to be less than 1/4", since plywood is undersized).

The thicker panel will feel more solid.

Chris

Brian writes:
I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

ply will work fine. It'a all about appearance.

scott

"Brian" wrote:

I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow
add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could
save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

It depends.

1) How large are the unsupported panel areas?
1/2" panel (probably 12MM) will eliminate any "drum skin" affect,
especially on large unsupported door panels.

2) Is your existing 1/4" ply actually 1/4" or is it 6MM, in which case
a 1/4" slot will provide a sloppy fit?

3) Tooling.

If you are going to do this job with only a table saw and a dado set,
using 1/2"(12MM) gives you the ability to make custom rabbits to fit
panels into rail & stile slot "dead nuts" so that people looking at
the job years from now will recognize that the work was done by a
"pro".

IMHO, if you want the job to "look good in the shower", find another
use for the 1/4" material.

BTW, a T/S and a dado set provides a lot more flexibility than a rail
& stile cutter set for a router for this application, IMHO.

YMMV.


Lew

On Apr 9, 2:58*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message

...

I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. *In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? *Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? *I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

Leon now sez:

*Neither panel
will add integrity or strength as 99.99% of the time you don't glue the
panel in to start with. *It should float. *

Leon?????

On Apr 9, 2:42*pm, Brian wrote:
I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. *In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? *Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? *I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

A plywood panel 'sounds' cardboardy/tinny/cheap. A solid wooden panel
rabbeted into the 1/4" groove will give a more solid sound when
closing. ALSO, plywood's veneer seldom matches the solid wood look of
the rail and stiles after finishing.

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
I assume you mean a 1/4" x 1/4" rabbet at the edge not a dado, just a
little terminology thang, a dado is a channel or slot and a rabbet is
a step.

And to further the nitpicking a "dado" is a crossgrain channel, while a
"groove" runs with the grain.

Chris

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 9, 2:58 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message

...

I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

Leon now sez:

Neither panel
will add integrity or strength as 99.99% of the time you don't glue the
panel in to start with. It should float.

Leon?????

It is the safer bet, his opening comments don't mention a plywood panel,
later he mentions the possibility of using plywood.
That said, I have never ever had a problem with a plywood panel that has
been glued in place, at least not in the last 20 years.
When I build cabinet doors with floating panels glue gets in the groves and
will stick to the panels, I in fact shoot for a neer perfect fit with no
clearance. I don't worry about it. Solid wood panels, a different matter,
and space balls to center the panel and to help keep the glue away from the
panel as much as possible.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 9, 2:42 pm, Brian wrote:
I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

ALSO, plywood's veneer seldom matches the solid wood look of
the rail and stiles after finishing.


That's CRAP, Paint covers every thing and you never see the wood. ;~)

Nice, paint the ultimate fixer.

Just a note that running the veneered ply through the same sander or
sanding process as the rest of the stick stock can go a long way
towards making things match better if you'll be staining or dying.

On Apr 9, 4:00*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Apr 9, 2:42 pm, Brian wrote:

I'm looking to make new cabinet doors and have a "how to" from
Workbench Magazine. In the Shaker style, the plans call for a 1/4
slot in the middle of 3/4" stock (rails and styles) however the flat
panel they call for is 1/2" thick with a dado all around that's 1/4"
thick.

Why couldn't I just use 1/4" plywood? Does the 1/2" stock somehow add
strength to the assembled frame or is it just so that the inside of
the panel is pseudo-flush with the inside of the frame? I could save
a lot of time just using some 1/4" plywood that I already have but I
don't want to affect the integrity of the frame.

Thanks!

*ALSO, plywood's veneer seldom matches the solid wood look of
the rail and stiles after finishing.

That's CRAP, * Paint covers every thing and you never see the wood. *;~)

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...

Nice, paint the ultimate fixer.



Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always have
to do what the customer wants. :~)


Just a note that running the veneered ply through the same sander or
sanding process as the rest of the stick stock can go a long way
towards making things match better if you'll be staining or dying.


Totally agree but I can't see, not ever doing that. Actually I tried that
20 years ago and learned you have to do that. Good to know for a newbie.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...

Nice, paint the ultimate fixer.



Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always
have to do what the customer wants. :~)

There's a trick to convincing the customer of.......what he/she really
wants. G

Max

"Max" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...

Nice, paint the ultimate fixer.



Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always
have to do what the customer wants. :~)

There's a trick to convincing the customer of.......what he/she really
wants. G


It does not always work, although I use the technique of "it will cost more
to stain than to use the correct color wood to begin with". Actually, in a
bath room setting and some kitchens, a quality paint job is easier to
maintain and I am a decent painter so I don't mind too much.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Max" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...

Nice, paint the ultimate fixer.



Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always
have to do what the customer wants. :~)

There's a trick to convincing the customer of.......what he/she really
wants. G


It does not always work, although I use the technique of "it will cost
more to stain than to use the correct color wood to begin with".
Actually, in a bath room setting and some kitchens, a quality paint job is
easier to maintain and I am a decent painter so I don't mind too much.

And paint, in some kitchens or bathrooms, looks better.
But that's not quite what I was alluding to. G
In a bit more serious vein, I think I would be remiss in my responsibility
to a customer if I were to avoid offering advice as to the advantages of any
particular material, design or finish. The "art" is in offering the advice
in an absolutely inoffensive way and with the knowledge that the customer,
in some cases, might know more about the subject than you do. (marketing
101) BG

Max

"Leon" wrote in message
Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always
have to do what the customer wants. :~)


Sometimes though, it is best to just walk away and lose the customer. Saves
money and aggravation.

"Max" wrote in message
...

And paint, in some kitchens or bathrooms, looks better.
But that's not quite what I was alluding to. G
In a bit more serious vein, I think I would be remiss in my responsibility
to a customer if I were to avoid offering advice as to the advantages of
any particular material, design or finish. The "art" is in offering the
advice in an absolutely inoffensive way and with the knowledge that the
customer, in some cases, might know more about the subject than you do.
(marketing 101) BG

Max


Yes I agree and always point out advantages and disadvantages and then they
ultimately make the decision.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always
have to do what the customer wants. :~)


Sometimes though, it is best to just walk away and lose the customer.
Saves money and aggravation.



No actually I do something totally different. If I see a potential problem
I price the job so that I either scare the customer off or I end up being
rewarded by getting the job. Doing what the customer says is all done in
agreement only before any prices are quoted or work is started. No changes
after that with out price changes. So far I have only had a couple of
customers in the last 14 years that I wish I had not gotten mixed up with.
No complaints with that record.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:38:54 +0100, Robatoy wrote
(in article
):

*Neither panel
will add integrity or strength as 99.99% of the time you don't glue the
panel in to start with. *It should float. *

Leon?????

because of it sinke, it be provened that it be not an wytche else must it be
consumed by fyre for ye goode of ye immortal soul

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:19:11 +0100, Leon wrote
(in article ):

Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always have
to do what the customer wants. :~)

Unless you call yourself a consultant, and then you decide what they are
bloody-well going to have and if it's different from what they think they
want, you charge 'em more for the privilege of being educated.

"Bored Borg" wrote in message
.com...
On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:19:11 +0100, Leon wrote
(in article ):

Some times you have to do what the customer wants. Actually you always
have
to do what the customer wants. :~)

Unless you call yourself a consultant, and then you decide what they are
bloody-well going to have and if it's different from what they think they
want, you charge 'em more for the privilege of being educated.


Yeah, I have about 37 years experience in the service industry, ultimately
if you are capable and the customer understands the advantages/disadvantages
you either do the job or some one else will do it.

Basically you have restated what I have mentioned in other posts.

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:38:54 +0100, Robatoy wrote
(in article
):

*Neither panel
will add integrity or strength as 99.99% of the time you don't glue the
panel in to start with. *It should float. *

Leon?????

because of it sinke, it be provened that it be not an wytche else must it be
consumed by fyre for ye goode of ye immortal soul



From "Carpentrie, Craft and Folkelore 101"?